Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[inCloud]

Blaming the victim it's certainly a take.

Isn't that what you did previously? 🤔

Also, he didn't blame Ukraine, but its government that making questionable moves lately.

For protocol, his conspiracy theory is bs, but he asking right questions.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Isn't that what you did previously? 🤔

Also, he didn't blame Ukraine, but its government that making questionable moves lately.

For protocol, his conspiracy theory is bs, but he asking right questions.

Russia is a victim of what?

Ukraine's government is just that: the government of Ukraine, period. Whatever moves it does concerns Ukrainians alone, and not foreigners and imperialists trying to rebuild an empire.

 

[Obelisk]

Ukraine Used Cluster Bombs, Evidence Indicates (Published 2014)

The Ukrainian Army appears to have fired cluster munitions, a weapon banned in much of the world, into the heart of Donetsk, according to physical evidence and interviews with witnesses and victims.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-sharp-increase-shelling-donbass-is-alarming-2022-02-18/

This goes back to 2014 or am I hallucinating? NATO continuing to expand close to Russian territory certainly did not upset Putin either, oh wait it did and he's been warning against it for years.

User in the quoted message is conveniently omitting/not acknowledging the dozens, if not hundreds of Russian airstrikes on civilian areas that have nothing to do with Ukrainian military capacity and have claimed 10,500+ civilian lives since the start of the invasion in 2022.

If you're going to play the game that I suspect you're trying to play, you need to also cast that net of accountability on Russia.

Quite frankly, Russia doesn't look good in the slightest when you start prying into what they've done. I scan through independent/A.P. news sources for updatss on the conflict pretty often, and it seems like there's a new Russian missile strike on a civilian area every couple of days.

 

[eran0004]

Ukraine Used Cluster Bombs, Evidence Indicates (Published 2014)

The Ukrainian Army appears to have fired cluster munitions, a weapon banned in much of the world, into the heart of Donetsk, according to physical evidence and interviews with witnesses and victims.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-sharp-increase-shelling-donbass-is-alarming-2022-02-18/

This goes back to 2014 or am I hallucinating?

You’re not hallucinating because it goes back to 2014, you’re hallucinating because you think both sides wanted war.

NATO continuing to expand close to Russian territory certainly did not upset Putin either, oh wait it did and he's been warning against it for years.

NATO’s only threat to Russia is that it makes it a lot harder for Putin to threaten his neighbours with aggression. Russia’s neighbours have a right to self defense and souvereignity, they are not obliged to be Putin’s puppets.

Either way it's beside my point. Even if he's right to some extent or totally wrong he's a POS and so is Zelensky

Why?

but Putin the bigger POS because he invaded and in my view he could've found other solutions against NATO expansion or whatever else he was claiming to be the reasons for invading.

The claimed reasons are not the actual reasons. He manufactured a situation in Ukraine with civil war to give himself a pretext for an invasion. The actual reason for the invasion is to take Crimea (in 2014) and then to install a new government (in 2022) and then to try to grab as much territory as he possibly can (from 2022 until today). So to the claimed reasons he could certainly have found other solutions, but not to the actual reasons.

To both of them it's clearly easy to send somebody else's sons to be slaughtered.

What makes you think so?

And to you in complete ignorance of what is happening over there, it's easy to continue to ideologically support the war

You’re the one supporting the war though, by claiming that Ukraine shouldn’t defend themselves against the aggression. That way Putin would get exactly what he wanted when he started the war and give him more incentive to continue along this path of aggression.

but I invite you to visit the website deepgoretube and watch the videos in particular the one that says "the true face of the Ukrainian war" to have a glimpse of the reality, you don't fully understand it until you see it.

So enlighten me, how would you solve the war in Russia and Ukraine now that you’ve learned how terrible war is?

And yes Jens Stoltenberg said what I mentioned, but even if I went and found the video I'm sure you'd find a way to spin it because of course, everyone here believes our leaders care so much about Ukrainians when they don't even give a damn about us

Again, citation required.

The young global leaders program from the World Economic Forum

Young Global Leaders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Klaus Schwab implying that Vladimir Putin was part of the program along with Merkel and Tony Blair

Relevance? Why did you call him a puppet? Are you actually implying that it was the World Economic Forum who started the war?

 

[inCloud]

Russia is a victim of what

Russian people are victims of Putin.

if not hundreds of Russian airstrikes on civilian areas that have nothing to do with Ukrainian military capacity

Was there intent to kill civilians in those airstrikes? We don't know, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Still warcrimes. There were strikes against civilian infrastructure approved by Putin publicly, but since 2024 Ukraine doing same thing regularly.

Sure, we shouldn't forget why whole thing started and who responsible for that.

A.P. news sources for updatss on the conflict pretty often, and it seems like there's a new Russian missile strike on a civilian area every couple of days.

I see daily reports of shellings in Belgorod and Kursk, which aren't in "independent media". Putin killed any signs of "independent media" and you just don't see what happens here.

NATO’s only threat to Russia is that it makes it a lot harder for Putin to threaten his neighbours with aggression. Russia’s neighbours have a right to self defense and souvereignity, they are not obliged to be Putin’s puppets.

While you right, there is still Putin that thinks otherwise. Both Georgia and Ukraine happens after they publicly declared that they want to join NATO. There is possibility, that whole thing wouldn't happen if they didn't.

He manufactured a situation in Ukraine with civil war to give himself a pretext for an invasion.

He fueled it, but not created. There wasn't any plans to invade Ukraine since Crimea was taken and until 2021 when he finally realised that Minsk agreements never would start working. It doesn't make him any better, but we should understand why he did what he did. Because he still here and still making moves.

You’re the one supporting the war though, by claiming that Ukraine shouldn’t defend themselves against the aggression.

Let's play devil's advocate. How many already died? 200.000? 300.000? How many would die if Zelenskiy run in Poland in 2022? My guess, is few thousands. What is worse - horror without end or horrible end?

 

[Dennisch]

What is worse -

Apparently being part of Russia is worse as the Ukrainians don't want that.

see daily reports of shellings in Belgorod and Kursk, which aren't in "independent media". Putin killed any signs of "independent media" and you just don't see what happens here.

If that was actually happening, like the systematic bombing of Donetsk which turned out to be only alive in the head of Putin and his puppets, we would know because the countries delivering the weapons to Ukraine told them for quite some time that Russia itself was off limits.

 

[inCloud]

If that was actually happening

Local stringer TG public:

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t.me

Belgorod:
August 11 - civilian casualty and burned fire truck
August 12 - 7 reports of civilian casualties or damage of civilian property and infrastructure
August 13 - 4 reports of civilian casualties or damage of civilian property and infrastructure

13 reports(one report could be tied to multiple casualties and objects damaged) in 3 days. I am not saying same thing doesn't happen in Ukraine(it does), but war crimes for war crimes isn't answer.

Apparently being part of Russia is worse as the Ukrainians don't want that.

I missed part when someone asked them how many Ukranians should die for not being under RF control. Actually, Zelenskiy was president of peace that deescalated Donbas conflict to almost 0.

 

[Dennisch]

There probably is some collateral damage here and there but if there was systematic bombing of civilians, the troll armies would flood the internet with it. And that's not the case. All we see is destroyed military equipment. And lots of it.

missed part when someone asked them how many Ukranians should die for not being under RF control. Actually, Zelenskiy was president of peace that deescalated Donbas conflict to almost 0.

I'm not going to do this with you again. You need to accept that most of the Ukrainians don't want Russia or Russians in their country. You are starting to follow the clown in his foot steps with your posts.

After 3 years of mostly terrorising Ukrainian civilians from east to west with bombs and drones, I can guarantee you that the sympathy levels for the lives of the Russians have dropped into the minus levels.
They are the aggressor, the invaders and the people who keep looking away and still be convinced that they are the victims in this war, and their 'brothers' in Ukraine should be liberated. Information was readily available online for all to see but the fingers of Putin seem to be ever present in the collective asses of most of the Russians.

 

[inCloud]

All we see is destroyed military equipment.

Its uncomfortable to see and you don't look.

collateral damage

Its not. Its **** FPV drones mostly, they see their targets.

You need to accept that most of the Ukrainians don't want Russia or Russians in their country.

My point isnt that they want or dont want(they dont). My point is that no one asked do they want to pay the cost of it.

Information was readily available online

Yeap, polls available and they dont prove you point. Every day freezing of conflict gaining support, even Zelenskiy saying they would peacetalk before year end. As we all understand, situation in December or November wouldn't be drastically different from what we have now.

 

[Dennisch]

My point is that no one asked do they want to pay the cost of it.

You have no idea how much Eastern Europe hates Russia. Absolutely no idea. Ask anyone of them. Anyone. I deal with Polaks, Romanians and Bulgarians on a daily basis. I talk with Ukrainian refugees every week. All of them hate them to their core.

 

[MatskiMonk]

You have no idea how much Eastern Europe hates Russia. Absolutely no idea. Ask anyone of them. Anyone. I deal with Polaks, Romanians and Bulgarians on a daily basis. I talk with Ukrainian refugees every week. All of them hate them to their core.

Are you suggesting Ukrainians should be happy to die because other countries hate the Russians?

 

[Dennisch]

Are you suggesting Ukrainians should be happy to die because other countries hate the Russians?

I have no idea how you come to that conclusion.

They rather die fighting than suffer a new Sovjet rule in their countries.

 

[Scaff]

He fueled it, but not created. There wasn't any plans to invade Ukraine since Crimea was taken and until 2021 when he finally realised that Minsk agreements never would start working.

Remind me again which country Crimea was part of when Putin annexed it?

Then reread you statement above to see how ridiculous it sounds.

 

[Joey D]

Ukraine claims more advances, prisoners taken as it presses an incursion into Russia

Ukrainian forces pushed on with their major cross-border incursion into Russia’s Kursk region for a second week Wednesday.

apnews.com

The operation has at least caused embarrassment for the Kremlin as Russian civilians reel from the attack.

A woman in Belgorod told The Associated Press on Tuesday that the Ukrainian shelling had been more intense for about 10 days until Monday, when it was followed by a lull.

The number of people in Belgorod who openly supported the war has decreased following the intensified Ukrainian attacks, the woman told AP, speaking on condition of anonymity because of security concerns.

“When explosions started near the city, when people were dying and when all this started happening before our eyes … and when it affected people personally, they stopped at least openly supporting” the war, the woman said.

I think this shows, on at least some level, how brainwashed the Russian population is. They're unaware they're committing genocide and truly believe their military is "fighting the good fight." It also shows the importance of Ukraine's attack on Russian-held territory since it's changing the opinion of the population. For many, war isn't real until it comes to your doorstep.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I have no idea how you come to that conclusion.

inCloud asked if anyone asked Ukrainians if they wanted to die to stop the Russians, your response was to claim 'everyone hates the Russians', as though that would somehow justify it.

They rather die fighting than suffer a new Sovjet rule in their countries.

If you're talking to a Ukrainian refugee, then this statement clearly isn't accurate.

 

[inCloud]

You have no idea how much Eastern Europe hates Russia.

Not sure how its related. I don't see them defending Ukraine in any significant numbers.

Sovjet rule

Its nothing alike Soviet rule, free market.

Remind me again which country Crimea was part of when Putin annexed it?

Crimea annexion wasn't part of civil war, there wasn't any war for it. Ukrainian government just passed it without a fight.

What happened next wasn't directed in Kremlin, it was Strelkov and Malafeev who rised "uprising". Till August, their forces were almost broken by Ukraine, but then RF finally sent troops. Through all 8 years Putin plan was to push Donbass back into Ukraine as autonomy, which would chain it to RF.

There were chances that situation in Donetsk wouldn't become full scale war, if Ukrainian government and army did what was needed back in spring 2014.

 

[Scaff]

Crimea annexion wasn't part of civil war, there wasn't any war for it. Ukrainian government just passed it without a fight.

What happened next wasn't directed in Kremlin, it was Strelkov and Malafeev who rised "uprising". Till August, their forces were almost broken by Ukraine, but then RF finally sent troops. Through all 8 years Putin plan was to push Donbass back into Ukraine as autonomy, which would chain it to RF.

There were chances that situation in Donetsk wouldn't become full scale war, if Ukrainian government and army did what was needed back in spring 2014.

Answer the question I asked please.

 

[Carbonox]

It's funny how there wasn't a peep of complaint from ordinary residents of Kursk and Belgorod (you know, the ones that aren't allowed to be called serfs) when the war was going better and was confined to the other side of the border entirely.

 

[Joey D]

Toyotas and improvised warfare, name a better duo:

Toyota Mirai Turned Into Hydrogen Bomb By Ukrainian Forces Explodes With The Force Of 400 Pounds Of TNT

The improvised explosive device was delivered via pizza delivery robot

jalopnik.com

I'm also not sure what's more surprising, that the Ukrainians made a makeshift bomb out of Mirai or that someone actually bought a Mirai in the first place.

 

[Obelisk]

Toyotas and improvised warfare, name a better duo:

Toyota Mirai Turned Into Hydrogen Bomb By Ukrainian Forces Explodes With The Force Of 400 Pounds Of TNT

The improvised explosive device was delivered via pizza delivery robot

jalopnik.com

I'm also not sure what's more surprising, that the Ukrainians made a makeshift bomb out of Mirai or that someone actually bought a Mirai in the first place.

Important note here so people don't freak out: This is not a nuclear H-Bomb like the name implies. This was a coventional explosion made by strapping explosives to the hydrogen tank.

 

[Dennisch]

inCloud asked if anyone asked Ukrainians if they wanted to die to stop the Russians, your response was to claim 'everyone hates the Russians', as though that would somehow justify it.

I've been over that with him before. They refuse to surrender so that's a pretty strong indicator that they're willing to die before they become Russian, and the rest of the Eastern Europeans I mentioned have that same sentiment.

If you're talking to a Ukrainian refugee, then this statement clearly isn't accurate.

The Ukrainian refugees are women, children and old people. The only men of fighting age I see here are either disabled or have lost most of the men in their family due to fighting already and are relieved of duty.

Not sure how its related. I don't see them defending Ukraine in any significant numbers.

Because for now it still isn't their war, if that call comes, they're ready to go. Just look at how much Poland is investing in their army.

s nothing alike Soviet rule, free market.

Yes, you can look at pictures of the stuff you were able to buy once, while enjoying free speech and somewhat honest politics. If Putin's successor has the same ideas, the Iron Curtain is going back up.

 

[inCloud]

Answer the question I asked please.

Ukraine, obviously.

It's funny how there wasn't a peep of complaint from ordinary residents of Kursk and Belgorod (you know, the ones that aren't allowed to be called serfs) when the war was going better and was confined to the other side of the border entirely.

There was, you just don't know about that because no one gives a **** about what they doing or thinking. Half of Belgorodians have friends or relatives in Ukraine, pre 2014 it was one agglomeration.

The Ukrainian refugees are women, children and old people

More than 650,000 Ukrainian men are registered as refugees in the European Union, Norway, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein (c) wiki

Ukrainian men between the ages of 18 and 60 are not allowed to leave the country, but it is estimated that 600,000–850,000 Ukrainian men fled to Europe after the Russian invasion.(c) wiki

Ukrainian border guards reporting hundreds crossing border illegally daily.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Russian people are victims of Putin.

Really? Full stadiums of people cheering him and the colossal reality distortion field that manifests everytime a Russian talks about the war and the way they think Russia should be perceived in the world makes me think differently. You, in this very thread, is an example of this.

Or maybe Russians started to play victims of Putin as soon as things didn't go according to plan? I remember the tone after the Crimea anexation, didn't felt like a people suffering under a dictator.

In any event, Putin is a product of Russian society and culture. If he terrorizes his own people, that says more about who Russians are than anything else since you made him the way he is: paranoid, delusional, cruel. And that being the truth, as you are implying it is, well, that just underscores how sick and how threatening your country is to the entire world because you create monsters and are willing to follow them: Putin isn't the first and hardly the last.

 

[Dennisch]

Ukrainian border guards reporting hundreds crossing border illegally daily.

That's great, but they aren't here.

Edit.

There are Ukrainian men here but those are the people who were able to flee in a Range Rover or a Porsche. You know, silver spoon people. And they don't seek shelter in a refugee camp or building. They pay for a hotel room or rent a house. But that's the benefit of having money.

 

[unit-one]

huh...

 

[Obelisk]

View attachment 1380922
huh...

I apologize for my total lack of knowledge here, but what is the significance of this specific plane? I know it's supposed to be something, just not sure what.

 

[Dennisch]

View attachment 1380922
huh...

Another 2 on suicidal flight plans.

 

[Famine]

Another 2 on suicidal flight plans.

There's something odd going on with planes over the Black Sea at the moment, because I'm pretty sure this KLM flight didn't go in these directions on its way to Osaka...

 

[inCloud]

View attachment 1380922
huh...

Exchange?

Full stadiums of people cheering him

~ million currently dieing for him in trenches, I guess its not that hard to find 35k individuals that would like to hang out at free concert of Polina Gagarina and spend 30 minutes with president.

everytime a Russian talks about the war and the way they think Russia should be perceived in the world makes me think differently

Guess, few randoms from internet isn't representing 140.000.000 country.

I remember the tone after the Crimea anexation, didn't felt like a people suffering under a dictator.

2011–2013 Russian protests - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

2014 anti-war protests in Russia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Putin is a product of Russian society and culture

Soviet culture and society. Surprisingly everyone in Ukraine and Russia older than 40 y. are product of this culture. Zelenskiy is product of this culture.

you made him the way he is

You nuts?

 

[Joey D]

Another 2 on suicidal flight plans.

View attachment 1380926

View attachment 1380928

There's something odd going on with planes over the Black Sea at the moment, because I'm pretty sure this KLM flight didn't go in these directions on its way to Osaka...

View attachment 1380929

So I think that's just ADS-B's best guess as to where the plane is based on satellite data. I'm a frequent browser of the reddit r/ADSB and this regularly comes out. Apparently, the antenna coverage in that part of the world is sketchy, and the system tries to fill in the blanks. It's likely that civilian planes aren't Leroy Jenkinsing across an active war zone...especially since the orcs enjoy shooting down passenger aircraft.