Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[NotThePrez]

Looks like something is about to start. A Ukrainian recon group with two BMP's (infantry fighting vehicles) allegedly tried to break through the Russian border and engaged in combat with RF border troops. Both BMP's were destroyed and five Ukrainian servicemen were killed, the Russians had no losses. At least this is what the RF Ministry of Defence says. No videos or photos are published. The clashes in the other spots of the conflict zone also continue.

Hmmm, where have I heard about this kind of operation before...?

Otherwise I don't have much else to add, other than I echo @Joey D 's thoughts on the matter. Putin is doing all this to stop Ukraine from joining NATO, yet he seems to not realize that his bully tactics and acts of intimidation are the reason why Ukraine and other countries in the region are leaning towards joining NATO.

You say that you don't support Putin because he doesn't do enough to protect Russia and her people. In that regard, I'm surprised that you're seemingly not totally against Putin using the military to intimidate Ukraine, since this (and especially actual combat if things come to that) kinda puts a massive target on Russia and its people, both militarily and economically through potential sanctions.

 

[eran0004]

What did Putin do before 1997 (when he wasn't even a president) and 2004 that made NATO expand to the east twice, accepting, among the others, Poland and the Baltic states bordering Russia?

What makes NATO expand is that countries decide that they want to become members of the alliance.

What you should ask yourself is what makes these countries want to join NATO. Russia’s long history of invading and occupying it’s neighbours (whether under its own flag or as the USSR) is clearly a motivation there. You are absolutely correct that it didn’t start with Putin, but Putin brought that policy into the 21st century.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Why don't they just hold elections in these "breakaway" places?

Didn't the majority of Crimeans approve of the Russian annexation?

 

[SestoScudo]

Why don't they just hold elections in these "breakaway" places?

Didn't the majority of Crimeans approve of the Russian annexation?

Majority ethnic group in crimea is Russian of course they would vote for Russia while the rest like Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians voted no.

 

[SestoScudo]

After the announcement the Russian armed forces went into donbass.

Russians were in donbass for years but now they made it official. Basically Georgia all over again with Russia taking South Ossetia and Abhazkia. Ukrainians taking back Donbass has already been too little too late.

Once the Russians are in they wont be going back.

Man all I can is China is watching most likely smiling as it too in the future in its quest to take back Taiwan and ending the Chinese civil war for good.

To be fair, this isn't just a Russian thing. All the major powers are dead keen to get into pointless and destructive wars. Russia would be the exception if it didn't.

Amusingly, China seems the least inclined to get involved in wars directly but they've got so many atrocities that they can commit on their home turf I think they've just got an unfair advantage.

Geopolitics 101



This video explains German inaction. Saying Germany is with Russia is too far fetched but due to business ties especially in the energy sector may explain why Germany is not taking sides and pretty much wants avoid a wider war. But Germany's inaction has also complicated NATO's plans of unity.

 

[Dennisch]

I wonder what sort of half arsed sanctions they will come up with.

No more tomatoes for Russia.

 

[SestoScudo]

Mutual shelling and skirmishes between the Russian backed rebels and the Ukrainian army.

 

[inCloud]

I still think that all out war with Ukraine would be madness and lethal to Putin regime. Russians(citizens) don't want war and very unhappy with state of economy.

Putin made ultimatum, was sad to **** off and only thing he could do after this is raise tension by this meaningless statements.

I wonder what sort of half arsed sanctions they will come up with.

No more tomatoes for Russia.

Ban of semiconductors import and swift shutdown. This would demolish our banking, IT and hi tech weapon development.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well the UK has started sanctions against Russians...

Boris Johnson has announced sanctions against five Russian banks: Rossiya, IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank and the Black Sea Bank.

The Prime Minister has also sanctioned three "high net worth" individuals: Gennadiy Timchenko, Boris Rotenberg and Igor Rotenberg.

"Any assets they hold in the UK will be frozen, the individuals concerned will be banned from travelling here and we will prohibit all UK individuals and entities from having any dealings with them," Johnson said.

... I'm guessing the Russian Tory Party donors are unaffected?

 

[Dennisch]

Ban of semiconductors import and swift shutdown. This would demolish our banking, IT and hi tech weapon development.

I think that an online ban, let's say Steam/Valve, would be a lot more effective to break down morale.

 

[Liquid]

The Russian peacekeepers will be in Luhaska and Donetsk soon enough. As in, we'll keep this piece and this piece.

Ban CS:Go and GTA:SA in Russia and they'll revolt overnight.

 

[Jimlaad43]

In response to Putin's comments about Ukraine not really existing for long

 

[Scaff]

Here, you can see above.

NOw expand that same level of critical analysis to everything the Kremin has been saying, if they can lie to this blatantly, what else have they lied about?

 

[NotThePrez]

Germany halts approval of gas pipeline Nord Stream 2 after Russia's actions

Germany on Tuesday halted the certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline designed to bring natural gas from Russia directly to Europe.

www.cnbc.com

Looks like Germany is starting to take a stronger stance against Russia, considering how valuable this pipeline probably is to Russia's economy.

 

[SestoScudo]

In response to Putin's comments about Ukraine not really existing for long

Pretty interesting how the Russians and Ukrainians both see Kieven Rus as their original ancestors.

Their fight also explains who is the real legitimate descendant of this state.

 

[Touring Mars]

Putin has announced that "demilitarisation of Ukraine" is the 'only way' forward...

Given that Russian troops have now entered Ukraine, Putin and the entire Russian governments' repeated denials of an intent to invade Ukraine can now only be described as bare-faced lies... who knew!?

Well the UK has started sanctions against Russians...

Boris Johnson has announced sanctions against five Russian banks: Rossiya, IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank and the Black Sea Bank.

The Prime Minister has also sanctioned three "high net worth" individuals: Gennadiy Timchenko, Boris Rotenberg and Igor Rotenberg.

"Any assets they hold in the UK will be frozen, the individuals concerned will be banned from travelling here and we will prohibit all UK individuals and entities from having any dealings with them," Johnson said.

... I'm guessing the Russian Tory Party donors are unaffected?

The UK's response is so weak it is almost beyond belief - absolutely pathetic. Many MPs are already openly questioning why this "first tranche" of sanctions is so weak.

 

[Dennisch]

Isn't this why we have NATO? Why aren't they warning Little Dicktator Put-in that they're about to be bombed into oblivion if they keep advancing?

 

[Liquid]

Isn't this why we have NATO? Why aren't they warning Little Dicktator Put-in that they're about to be bombed into oblivion if they keep advancing?

Nobody's brave enough to do it nor gamble on facing the retaliation. Both China and Russia have free reign to be as belligerant as they want because, due to how important a player they are, they know they can get away with it in almost all cases.

 

[SestoScudo]

Situation is going to lead to a conventional war as Russia feels compelled to expel Ukraine from Donbass.

There has been clashes going around with the use of artillery and mortars between the Ukrainian army and the Russian backed rebels.

 

[Joey D]

Isn't this why we have NATO? Why aren't they warning Little Dicktator Put-in that they're about to be bombed into oblivion if they keep advancing?

Sort of. NATO was originally created to keep communist countries, specifically the USSR, from overtaking Europe after World War II.

 

[andrea]

Covid world coming together. Nearly out of covid. Welcome the **** show.

 

[Dennisch]

Nobody's brave enough to do it nor gamble on facing the retaliation. Both China and Russia have free reign to be as belligerant as they want because, due to how important a player they are, they know they can get away with it in almost all cases.

We need China to take back the territory they lost to the USSR.

Sort of. NATO was originally created to keep communist countries, specifically the USSR, from overtaking Europe after World War II.

Exactly what is happening now.

 

[Blitz24]

Putin has announced that "demilitarisation of Ukraine" is the 'only way' forward...

Given that Russian troops have now entered Ukraine, Putin and the entire Russian governments' repeated denials of an intent to invade Ukraine can now only be described as bare-faced lies... who knew!?

The UK's response is so weak it is almost beyond belief - absolutely pathetic. Many MPs are already openly questioning why this "first tranche" of sanctions is so weak.

Aka Putin wants Ukraine to no longer exist as an independent country. A fact which nearly everyone should have known to begin with.

 

[Liquid]

We need China to take back the territory they lost to the USSR.

It's really hard to not be a cynical grump when it comes to geopolitics but whatever. We all know the score. NATO countries should indeed be turning Russia and China against each other. Keep them both busy elsewhere. You won't get anywhere being nicey nicey with Russia, no matter how good-natured your beliefs are.

 

[McLaren]

Nobody's brave enough to do it nor gamble on facing the retaliation. Both China and Russia have free reign to be as belligerant as they want because, due to how important a player they are, they know they can get away with it in almost all cases.

I read some stories this morning that China might actually be interested in whatever sets Russia back as they’re sitting in China’s backyard and they value EU/US as trade partners over Russia’s own goals (plus China apparently not fond of EU/US strengthening their bond).

Makes sense to me, but again, just some theories I read.

 

[Joey D]

Exactly what is happening now.

True, in a way. Russia isn't totally communist today, but the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is still the second-largest political party in the country. The United Russia Party is still the majority party and the one Putin belongs to and while it's not communist, it's still at odds with democracy and a thinly veiled authoritarian dictatorship. The United Russia Party is also pro-state control and very conservative along with being very nationalist and anti-globalism, all tenants of authoritarianism.

I'm still in agreement though that NATO should and does need to protect Europe from Russian overreach. We don't need more dictatorships in the world nor do we need more Russian puppet governments like Belarus. It's a fine line though since Ukraine isn't part of NATO so there's no obligation to carry out military action. However, if Putin is able to take Ukraine and hold it, there's nothing really stopping him from taking on the rest of Eastern Europe. And even then, if he isn't able to take Ukraine, there are a number of other countries that should rightfully be worried.

 

[Liquid]

However, if Putin is able to take Ukraine and hold it, there's nothing really stopping him from taking on the rest of Eastern Europe. And even then, if he isn't able to take Ukraine, there are a number of other countries that should rightfully be worried.

I live in a country that borders Ukraine. The difference between today and 1947 is that there are now NATO US weapons in Slovakia within range of any Russian ones found in Ukraine. Because of that it's unlikely that Russia would try to go any further than Ukraine however whoever is at Russia's eastern-most border, whether it's Ukraine or Poland/Slovakia/Romania/Hungary (all NATO members), those most eastern extremities will always either be nervous or, in the rural areas, look to be annexed.

This one really is a slippery slope. Let's say Russia formally annexes Luhask and Donetsk and says "Okay, that's it. We've taken the ethnic Russian areas, let us keep Crimea as well and there'll be no more trouble", who is going to believe it?

 

[novcze]

Russia... coming in to "save" other country again, "invited" by some bs reason.

edit:

This one really is a slippery slope. Let's say Russia formally annexes Luhask and Donetsk and says "Okay, that's it. We've taken the ethnic Russian areas, let us keep Crimea as well and there'll be no more trouble", who is going to believe it?

Nobody, and I hope that nobody want to repeat the same mistake that was The Munich Agreement

 

[eran0004]

Given that Russian troops have now entered Ukraine, Putin and the entire Russian governments' repeated denials of an intent to invade Ukraine can now only be described as bare-faced lies...

He thinks he found a loophole by first recognising these regions as independent states before invading them.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Russia... coming in to "save" other country again, "invited" by some bs reason.

edit:

Nobody, and I hope that nobody want to repeat the same mistake that was The Munich Agreement

I try to look at this from the landscape of the time. There's a lot of what if's that explain what happened - though, yes, it's easy to say that the Munich Agreement was a pretty bad mistake.

What if just a few years after the worst war in human history, England and France had directly and militarily responded to Germany's first land grab? It would have led to a similar war in Europe (probably a shorter version of it with Germany not in as good of a position and maybe the Pacific theater would have played out differently/not happened) but it still would have been an awful war just after the most awful war ever. It's easy to look back and say they should have known better, but in the moment I think it was a lot less clear. If Germany had stopped at taking territories from Czechoslovakia, the agreement would probably be looked at as a diplomatic win. A concession to prevent mass carnage. Hitler hadn't killed millions of innocent people yet, he wasn't the archetype of of evil - he was a charismatic hypernationalist not much different than Putin to be honest.

That's what makes the current situation so eerily similar - it's all down to the desires of a single person with a lot of power and opponents with no appetite for war.