Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
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For the longest time the top brass in the Air Force have been wanting to get rid of it, convinced the F-35 could do the job better. But neither Congress nor soldiers on the ground agreed, so it lives on. And to be fair, actually seeing and hearing death coming from above seems like a valuable characteristic that the F-35 is never going to enjoy.

The modern battlefield @Exorcet is referring to is China and the Pacific. That part kinda makes sense but the AF has been trying to get rid of the plane since 2013 when we were still deeply involved in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc. They're still the most effective ground attack planes in existence as long as air superiority can be provided which is something that's going to be problematic in a conflict with China. That said, we've trialed them in these future war scenarios and have flown some to Japan as recently as last year.

I think they've finally given up trying to kill it because they're actually upgrading them with new wing spars, keeping them in service for at least another 15 years or so. Seems like the AF found a use for it in the Pacific, and a way to guarantee air coverage. Maybe all those Spratly Islands? Either way, China doesn't field a comparable tool so surely there's a use for it somewhere.
The A-10 could still find a use in a conventional war with China. Be it by being used to hunt down gunboats and other smaller ships from the chinese navy or their militias. The same could be applied against Iran, which most of their navy is comprised of very small gunboats. This would free the rest of the fighters for more high-intensity roles.
 
They don’t necessarily have to be “neonazis” - probably just firing at the Russian-held part of the city without care about civilians.
Unsure if serious, but this was a jab at Putin who is convinced that all people fighting against Russia are "Nazis", Including the JEWISH PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE.
 
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Can you believe the rubbish and lies they tell,the Russian people who follow Putin must be totally brainwashed.I find it really hard to believe even the most ignorant are not starting to think this seems a bit urrrrrr.
Somewhat free and widely available press were here only for 10-15 years out of 319 years. Its like out of 70 years living you get truth only between years 65-68.


On the other hand, at moment of shutdown Echo of Moscow was most popular radio in Moscow out of all radio stations. Including entertainment and music radios.
 
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Each side will always exaggerate the number of enemy casualties to boost their morale and try to demoralize the enemy. I wouldn’t be so sure about their info
"In war, truth is the first casualty" (c)

Total casualties of Russian side from this war could be comparable, IMO. Maybe not today, but its obvious that both sides dont want to stop fighting and things will be uglier every day.

Our parliament considering bill about "fakes". Up to 15 years in prison for this. Looks like someone want to put in jail all our TV crowd, ministry of defence PR and half of politics.
 
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"In war, truth is the first casualty" (c)

Total casualties of Russian side from this war could be comparable, IMO. Maybe not today, but its obvious that both sides dont want to stop fighting and things will be uglier every day.

Our parliament considering bill about "fakes". Up to 15 years in prison for this. Looks like someone want to put in jail all our TV crowd, ministry of defence PR and half of politics.
I think the Ukrainians are only having to fight because a foreign invader is forcing them too,I am sure they would rather this did not happen.But I do agree truth is always first casualty.
 
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I think the Ukrainians are only having to fight because a foreign invader is forcing them too,I am sure they would rather this did not happen.
No doubt. I mean they can surrender to stop this conflict, its still an option. I greatly appreciate that they fight for freedom of all three countries, but they always could stop and still be heroes in eyes of the World.
 
No doubt. I mean they can surrender to stop this conflict, its still an option. I greatly appreciate that they fight for freedom of all three countries, but they always could stop and still be heroes in eyes of the World.

They could, and in the short term that’s probably the better option (except for the people who are on Putin’s kill list). In the long term though it will probably take decades for the Ukrainians to regain their freedom if Russia is allowed to take control.

I think NATO needs to get in there and start bombing the Russian troops. If Putin wants to respond with a nuclear war, then so be it.
 
but they always could stop and still be heroes in eyes of the World.

.. and live under a man that is clearly a tyrant, and a dictator, as part of nation that cannot be allowed to succeed long term. Even if that bought "peace" to the area (which it won't, it will simply legitimise Russian slaughter of Ukrainian resistance), there's no obligation on the west to lift sanctions. Ukraine can end the conflict, but that doesn't get Russia off the hook.
 
I think NATO needs to get in there and start bombing the Russian troops. If Putin wants to respond with a nuclear war, then so be it.
"So be it."

Despite the fact that we're probably on a one-way trip to climate breakdown, that's an awfully blasé sentiment for a chain of events that could easily knock civilisation back to the stone ages. I still like feeling the sun on my face, thank you very much.
 
Putin really has lost it.
I have to say, prior to this invasion, I thought Putin was actually playing a very careful strategic game, and had a lot of foresight and patience. It did occur to me that the US is at a disadvantage to have a president who has at most 7 years of experience at the job. Our leader is always brand new to the role, whereas Putin has had so much time to learn how to do it well. And I considered this to be a somewhat unfortunate consequence of our political system (I still do actually, even though the benefits outweigh the negatives).

But wow...

This whole invasion, and everything surrounding it, has really made me think Putin is not the strategerist I had previously thought. Because this whole thing, from one end to the other, is just dumb, and it's costing Russia so much.
 
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This whole invasion, and everything surrounding it, has really made me think Putin is not the strategerist I had previously thought.
At one time, he probably was a good strategist, but I really do believe he has some sort of illness that's causing him to more or less lose it. I know it's all circumstantial at best, but I think some people have made some pretty compelling arguments that he's unwell.
 
At one time, he probably was a good strategist, but I really do believe he has some sort of illness that's causing him to more or less lose it. I know it's all circumstantial at best, but I think some people have made some pretty compelling arguments that he's unwell.
Well... we know something about that here in the US as well. Trump's recovery from covid got weird.
 
It did occur to me that the US is at a disadvantage to have a president who has at most 7 years of experience at the job.
It doesn't work like that. President doesn't have enough time to learn about evolving world. And our world evolving constantly. If you in charge for 20 years its impossible to be in touch with society. And then you start making mistakes like this.

and live under a man that is clearly a tyrant, and a dictator, as part of nation that cannot be allowed to succeed long term
Its not 1940, with basic English you can live in comfort anywhere. Ukranians spread all over the world already and there is possibilities. Is life of a human being in 2022 cost more than soil under his feets?
 
RE Putin mental state: The invasion of Ukraine screams desperation to me. Does Putin have some terminal medical diagnosis and he wants to take Ukraine before he dies at any cost? You would think that an invasion like this would start when Russia is in a good position financially and has thoroughly shored up support of its allies, but it isn't and it hasn't. Why now?

@inCloud - While I agree with you about soil and such, there are two things. First I think you overestimate how ordinary people, especially older people, can cope with profound change of relocating to other countries. I know of people who have won green card lotteries to come to the US, voluntarily and enthusiastically, (from the middle east) and found themselves isolated and sad here despite the fact that the standard of living is much better. Second there comes a point when a person like Vladimir Putin is a danger to humanity broadly. I sincerely doubt Putin would take Ukraine (I think he will) and then be content. There's evidence he is planning something for Moldova. What's Moldova mean to the world? Or Estonia? Or Latvia? Or Lithuania? Oh...Poland...that one's pretty big. Romania? How many millions have to suffer (either a little or a lot) for a single man's delusion? I genuinely worry what comes next. The best thing that could happen is the Russian armed forces just refuse to continue attacking Ukraine.

One thing that has always defined the ethos of Vladimir Putin is plausible deniability, something that he has deployed near relentlessly in all aspects of foreign and domestic affairs. Above all else, he could plausibly deny that he is a danger to the world. I don't think that is plausible anymore. The will he/won't he card is no longer in play and I can only hope that it ends without nuclear war, which is one that Russia will certainly lose, even if nobody wins.

I've been reading about post WW1 Soviet Union / Russia quite a bit since this all kicked off and one thing that I find surprising is references to Joseph Stalin being a revered figure even in present day Russia. The man was responsible for at least 10 million Russian deaths (if not 20 million) and probably contributed to an indescribable loss of intellectual/creative/industrial capacity in Russia/SU for decades. He purposefully eradicated the most productive parts of Russian society. While my perspective is Western and therefore this is very strange to me, even trying to look at it through the lens of Leninism, this seems quite self destructive and short-sighted. Are my sources wrong or do people in current day Russia celebrate Stalin?
 
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It doesn't work like that. President doesn't have enough time to learn about evolving world. And our world evolving constantly. If you in charge for 20 years its impossible to be in touch with society. And then you start making mistakes like this.
This is why I say the benefits outweight the drawbacks. But there are a lot of functions of country leadership that benefit from a great deal of experience as well. Obviously Biden has tons of experience in government, including as vice president. But I can see advantages to parts of the job for a leader that has been in the seat for a long time. A lot of Biden's experience in the Senate is useful for certain domestic policy, but less useful for dealing with current foreign issues, for example.

I'm not advocating that the US needs an autocracy or a longer-term president. I'm just recognizing that our leadership may consistently underperform in certain specific areas because they're always so relatively new. And I think it's clearly worth that price to avoid the other huge downsides, some of which Russia is experiencing today.
 
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At one time, he probably was a good strategist, but I really do believe he has some sort of illness that's causing him to more or less lose it. I know it's all circumstantial at best, but I think some people have made some pretty compelling arguments that he's unwell.
Well... we know something about that here in the US as well. Trump's recovery from covid got weird.
Mental or otherwise? It was pretty clear that Trump was suffering from runaway narcissism if not more. Russia's system doesn't have robust methods to prevent Putin from making whatever decision he wants and in my opinion what we're seeing from him now is very similar to what Trump wanted to do at multiple points. The dude is showing all the signs of an old man on his way out who is trying to get everything he can before his time is up. I'm no mental health expert but I can see a lifetime of narcissistic brainwashing leading to problems like this. Luckily for us, Trump was not actually a career covert strategist and politician but merely a rich idiot.
 
Its not 1940, with basic English you can live in comfort anywhere. Ukranians spread all over the world already and there is possibilities. Is life of a human being in 2022 cost more than soil under his feets?
"Invasion is okay, you can always just move"? Some may be lucky enough to have that choice, but that's really not the point is it? The lives they had have been forcibly taken from them by a foreign power. If they have to loose everything and start again, what's fair retribution for that? As a Russian, how much of a price are you personally willing to pay for the actions of your country? I don't personally think the Russian people should have to pay for Putin's decision to invade, but I also don't think Russia can ever be allowed to prosper after any such action if it's successful - therefore, it must not be successful!
 
Some stores report that demand for iodine is spiking in the general public after Russia’s deterrent forces went on “high alert” the other day. People need to calm the **** down over this nuclear stuff. These weapons are bargaining tools, and currently keeping NATO out of Ukraine and Russia out of NATO territory.
Putin is using his nuclear deterrent to prevent anyone from stopping Russian aggression - this is a fundamental shift in behaviour and an unprecedented use of 'nuclear deterrence'.

Putin is setting the stage for the genocide of the Ukrainian people, and is threatening the rest of the world with nuclear holocaust if anyone tries to stop him. Hell, the psychopath even raised Russia's nuclear threat level because Liz Truss said something that upset him...

The world now faces the terrifying prospect of a demented, psychopathic, sadistic dictator unleashing barbarism on millions of people, and determined to take the rest of the world with him if he is attacked. Putin has made Russia the geopolitical equivalent of a suicide bomber.
 
Putin is using his nuclear deterrent to prevent anyone from stopping Russian aggression - this is a fundamental shift in behaviour and an unprecedented use of 'nuclear deterrence'.

Putin is setting the stage for the genocide of the Ukrainian people, and is threatening the rest of the world with nuclear holocaust if anyone tries to stop him. Hell, the psychopath even raised Russia's nuclear threat level because Liz Truss said something that upset him...

The world now faces the terrifying prospect of a demented, psychopathic, sadistic dictator unleashing barbarism on millions of people, and determined to take the rest of the world with him if he is attacked. Putin has made Russia the geopolitical equivalent of a suicide bomber.
For all the bluster though, I do not think that large scale nuclear war is remotely likely. It's too insane, even for Putin. "Small" scale? That's a different story unfortunately.

Even if Russia detonated a nuke somewhere in eastern Europe, I'm not sure the US would respond with nukes. The US might go to war with Russia over it, but I don't see ICBMs as the immediate response. I could see the US and Russia fighting a war without using nukes.
 
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