RVV Motor Works - White Knight - 10/02/10

I personally blame myself for not going with racing suspension, without it I was limited with my adjustments. But thats the nature of budget tunes. Still, I love the thing to bits. :D

Looking forward to the extra comments. :D Thanks though, we're glad at least one person has looked at all 3 cars. :)👍
 
*Clears Throat RVV Skyline Slayers Review - By Camry "if I did this well in school, I'd have A's" Fan.

I received an interesting letter the other day from the boys at RVV motorsports and by interesting I of course mean vague. All it contained was a note saying “Godzilla is dead” and a plane ticket. PF said it was worth a look so without second-guessing him I was on the first plane to New York City.

Godzilla, for those of you who don't know, is the Skyline GT-R series. How it got its name I am unsure of but this is what all street kids refer to it as so I'm not going to second-guess them either. Now the last of the “Skyline GT-R's” was the R34. The R34 is one of the most formidable cars ever conceived. I have driven them in all sorts of guises from the Vspecs to the N1s to the base models and they all feel pretty much the same, the devil between them lies in the details. On the road, track or the strip it takes a tough car to stand up against it, they're pretty much untouchable. Notice I said “pretty-much”: no car is ever bulletproof, no car is perfect and perhaps I'm overhyping the R34 based on its reputation alone. There is definitely plenty of scope for mods and plenty of room for improvement.

I arrived in New York and hoped into my little hire car, a Levin BZ-R. I received a call informing me of the location for my little surprise, the man on the phone sounded very excited. In little time I found myself on the site of the New York Enduro circuit and a sight not-unlike something out of Juiced 2 Hot Import Nights. Four cars and three drivers standing next to their respective achievements. It was now clear what I was called out for, I was testing 3 different Skyline Slayers.

Let's take a look at the contenders. We have a Silvia fit for a king, (K's), a handsome, crazy RX-7 FD and the 4-wheel rally monster, Mitsu Lan Evo V. The RX-7 is the cheapest and also has the least amount of power @ 51,590, Next up is the S14 K's @ 57,418 and finally at just a tenner cheaper the the Vspec the Lan Evo. The Skyline has more power than both the RX-7 and the Silvia but loses out to the Evo which has a some 20hp advantage. On paper it looks very tight, I would expect the gains are made on the suspension tuning and weight.

I grabbed the Skyline first, while the crowd stepped back to open up the track. This wasn't just a normal R34 GT-R, it's a Nur designed specifically for the other thing that starts with Nur, The Nurburgring. Out on the track, well ... It has throttle understeer, lift off understeer and for a car with 4 wheel steering it doesn't turn very well at all. I don't like the way is floats around on its suspension; it just feels way too soft (most likely because of the bumps of the Nurburgring). The engine doesn't feel responsive enough, it just lumbers a little like it's turbos are too big. However, the car at speed is always, always planted. It never feels like you have 300+bhp because the AWD system just sticks the car to the road and makes sure that it never powers into wheelspin. At lower speed corners around 100kph it can break lose at the rear but if you let it go it will come back around and if you try and snap it back it can go wrong. It tells you how it wants to be driven, you never ever tell it what to do else it will just give you as much frustration and understeer that it feels necessary to deliver as punishment for not doing what you're told, You can almost here it saying, “See if you had listened to me in the first place you wouldn't be off the racing line now, would you?” I hated driving it to start with but then it grew on me a little bit. But this was only a stocker Skyline. The real point of interest are the tuned ones, the Skyline killers.

I took the Evo first, so I could properly compare the differences between two cars with the same drivetrain. I took the track and to be honest I was a little bit nervous, these guys have worked so hard at RVV, balancing cost, power, weight and suspension in order to beat an R34 at its own game. First impressions: too much understeer. Driving this Evo is a interesting predicament, put the power on too soon and you get a FWD Evo, just powering around at the front wheels and understeering everywhere but then on lap two I came dangerously close to beating the Skyline. One thing it does have over the Skyline, it's fun to drive. While the understeer is incredibly annoying sometimes it’s never a laborious process. I had to force myself to drive the Skyline; I was on lap 7 before I knew it in the Evo. Something the passes the time like that would be excellent on an Enduro race because the race would be over before you knew it. But I have my suggestions on how to drive it and my criticisms. The way to drive it is simple really late brake as far as you dare, lift off with no power on turn it and punch it mid corner, hold the wheel and if you do it right you pull straight an inch from the wall. Do it wrong and you crash. It also a left foot braker and it really quite fun when you do this because it keeps the turbo on boost as well. However anything other than perfect precision driving and you get buckets of power-understeer and buckets of no-power-understeer, it doesn't turn nearly as well as I would like it too either (Tech Note: I have only a DS2, if someone has a G25 they wish too be rid of...). Ending on a positive the engine note it much nicer in the Evo than the Skyline and the Evo doesn't feel like it's flopping around. It doesn't change my opinion on AWD in GT 4 but it is a competent track car.

Moving on to our first RWD contender we have the S14 Silvia K's. The K's stands for kings because it had the most kit on it with power steering, power windows and power mirrors. It also came with the desirable SR20DET motor, which the Q's didn't have. However the notion of a King's Silvia is thrown out of the equation this time. The RVV boys have thrown it all out or scraped it for cash in order to save weight. I'm not worried right now, I'm on a track not driving to work. Let see how she fares against the Skyline. How is it on the track? Let me take you inside the cabin. Holding third, you’re understeering round the big sweeper before the straight. Annoyed, you flat shift into second, the rears light up almost instantly, the sideways g's are loading the right side of the car, the turbo comes into full boost and your skating around, you swing the wheel right to get onto the straight away and you swung just a little too hard. You're now facing the wrong direction”. This is what this car is like, it's what this car is about. It's got drifter DNA running in its veins and it will prove it to you when it wants, whether or not your prepared for it. To call it a drifter though, would be incorrect, for example the sliding of the car isn't nearly consistent enough, you can hold it for awhile but too much angle and it's a snap around, even trying to bring it back from a small slide is hard without a little bit of snap back. Understeer? What understeer? Depending on your corner entry mentality you'll get a little bit of understeer through the bend or else a lot of oversteer, which is more fun. Calling it a car you need to manhandle is completely untrue, you need to exercise a light touch (once again, pretty hard with a DS2). With all the oversteer it can be a little hard to be consistent, most of the time you’re just sticking the tail out for the sheer thrill of it. Not a drift king's Silvia or even a King's Silvia but a tail-happy but race focused street machine.

It was getting dark now, it had been one hell of a day, but I still had one more car to look at. I grabbed the keys off RJ. As I got in the car he said “You've saved the best for last”. This is a proper, full-bore, all out pointy track day car. Every little movement you make translates into a movement of the car. It's a curb drifter like the S14 as well. It is by far the fastest vehicle of the 4, there's no denying it. I smashed the records first lap as well which was amazing. The brakes are very firm, much better then the Silvia's brake, but you need to be in a straight line to use them, any small movements and it gets very shaky under braking. Oversteer is there to prevent understeer, not to be used as a toy like in the Silvia. I had troubles at turns 2 and 3. Halfway around, just as you want to straighten up the power band comes in and spins the rears. This can be avoided by taking the two corners in third instead of second but this goes against instinct. It's a quick car, almost unbelievable in its application. The RX-7 commands a tonne of presence as well, it's a proper head turner.

I came in after the RX-7 laps with a pretty big smile on my face. The results were:

1. Mazda RX-7 1:46.266
2. Nissan Silvia K's 1:48.259
3. Mitsu Lan Evo V 1:49.942
4. Skyline GT-R Vspec Nur 1:50.259

So, all three cars are quicker then the Skyline; without a doubt Godzilla is dead. But now which one do I have to choose? For a lap of the track the RX-7, to impress my mates with the trail out, the Silvia scrapes by over the RX-7, for driving to work the Evo or the Skyline. The RX-7 and the Evo have the most sophisticated suspension setups, the Silvia gets by on a simpler system, but comes with grippy tyres and a well sorted diff. The RX-7 is the cheapest and the fastest. The Evo is the most consistent because of AWD and the most expensive but is the slowest of the three. They all have their good points and with 60K in the bank you'd take any one of them. but my pick is.....

The RX-7. It's the cheapest and the fastest, but the brakes need a little bit of work. There are no better ways to spend 52,000 dollars.
 
Great review, thanks! I liked the story at the beginning. :P

Yeah sometimes I think if we just reviewed cars and handed the reviews in to our English teachers, we'd get A's all round. :lol:

But yeah, the Silvia cant escape its destiny of being thrown sideways around every corner. The suspension, diff and the S3 tyres do help a bit, but still, it hasnt lost any of that driftyness. :sly: Its that fun factor that makes it so great to drive, and makes you go "huh?" when you manage to come within 2 seconds of a winged RX-7. :P

Again, thanks for the review. It makes so happy when we spend ages doing a tune and the reviews are that big. :D
 
I quite liked the Evo at NY, simply because even with the on-throttle understeer you could bully it around track and smash the hell out of the Skyline.

Only other niggle is the BZ-R rental... We never got them here mate :P
 
Thanks for the comment's guys. It took awhile but I enjoyed writing them. Special Thanks to PF who proof read the review for me.

As for the BZ-R, technically there rare in Australia as well but for the sake of continuity, my hire BZ-R was actually my New York friends personally imported car.
 
hey guys, brilliant work with the tuning, i drove the chevelle zr-1, i had a chevelle for ages, and i finally decided to give it a tune.
i must say, i am very impressed with the handling, and the way it turns in. well done on the suspension. personally i found the torque to be a bit more than i needed, so i lowered it down slightly, but excelent job.
 
Oh the pleasure was ours, don't hesitate to test out one of the other tunes that are in out garage.

Of course you can do a request too.
 
Oh the pleasure was ours, don't hesitate to test out one of the other tunes that are in out garage.

Of course you can do a request too.
thanks Vince247, I would really appreciate if you could do a Nismo 400-R, i have won this car recently (for the second time), and i couldn't really find a balance between no understeer on the long, fast corners, and a bit of drifting on the shorter, sharper corners, its usually one extreme or the other....(i prefer driving enjoyment over outright best time)
 
hey guys, brilliant work with the tuning, i drove the chevelle zr-1, i had a chevelle for ages, and i finally decided to give it a tune.
i must say, i am very impressed with the handling, and the way it turns in. well done on the suspension. personally i found the torque to be a bit more than i needed, so i lowered it down slightly, but excelent job.

Why thank you. :D The torque is a bit much I agree, but thats what happens when you slap a supercharger onto a Chevelle. :lol: But thanks for the input, nice to know we're still getting some attention. :dopey:👍
 
thnx roj....would you recommend using a LSD in a Honda civic Type-r for better handling??....i have one, and cant actually decide with the settings, wouldn't mind some feedback here......sorry if it is slightly off topic
 
Hey guys, Ive just started GT4 again but this time Im driving manual with no aids and Im finding it a lot more fun and generally im driving faster and better.
I was just wondering if I could get a request for a tune if you guys do that? Or if I'd have to review something first? I'd say im an average driver, I just golded the B and A licence tests this week, going to start on IB and IA maybe next week. Anyway, to the point, would you guys be able to tune up an old MR2 (the '86 I think, not too concerned on what version) into a semi-racing sort of car? Sorry if Ive got the wrong idea.

As I said, I'd surly review a car, but not soon as Im just getting into 'proper' driving since starting again lol and I wouldn't feel my reviews to be satisfactory as such.

Thanks though :)
 
Hmm... AW11 MR2 should be rather interesting.

By semi-racing I assume you mean just lightly modded on S2s or S3s?

My questions would be: About how much power? Do you wish to not use the FC gearbox, suspension, LSD or brake balance controller on this car? (If any, list) Tires? Any given competition you would like to compete in?

Mind you I am utterly useless as a driver myself, so chances are if I can drive it, you can as well, perhaps faster.
 
Um between 150-250ish hp (is that too large of a range? if so id be leaning more towards 250 region) and I think a FC gearbox would be good because I havent been higher than fourth with my first stage turbo lol. And yes slightly modded on S2/S3s. Any modifications are welcome, im not fussed on that.

Right now Im trying to compete in the beginner MR races agains Lotuses, NSX etc. Its capable of winning but is rather hard to control. Im just looking to see where else I could go in the pro hall. I havent checked what the opponents are like but id also like to compete with it there.

Many thanks! :D
 
@ eschey: It really would be worth driving and/or reviewing an RVV tune whether they want you to or not. They've done an interesting experiment here, where they tune 3 cars to beat the stock Skyline R34 while using fewer credits, and they've done a rather snappy Ren 5 Turbo. Obviously there's a lot more, that's just off the top of my head.
 
thnx roj....would you recommend using a LSD in a Honda civic Type-r for better handling??....i have one, and cant actually decide with the settings, wouldn't mind some feedback here......sorry if it is slightly off topic
I would recommend it only if the stock LSD is struggling. It does cope well on stock power but when I tuned mine for TCv4, I found I needed the FC LSD because I had so much power for the stock one to handle.

Not off topic at all. We're here to give tuning advice too. 👍
 
I thought that was the point of being a 'tuning' garage, to give tuning advice to your customers, not spit out cars like Boyd Coddington's workshop. :P;) It's definitely not off topic in my eyes and it would be a bit weird if it was found to be off topic, wouldn't you think? 👍
 
Alright, I like the look of the NSX-R, so when i get the chance ill give it a go. Right now the aim is to get use to driving with no aids and a manual gearbox. It makes it so much more fun!! :D
 
roj's NSX-R is a package and a 1/2. Well worth your price of admission there. 👍 I remember the Touge Challenge when his NSX-R was basically tied 1st in the RWD category.
 
Alright, I like the look of the NSX-R, so when i get the chance ill give it a go. Right now the aim is to get use to driving with no aids and a manual gearbox. It makes it so much more fun!! :D
I made my switch from auto to manual with that NSX-R, actually. :dopey:
roj's NSX-R is a package and a 1/2. Well worth your price of admission there. 👍 I remember the Touge Challenge when his NSX-R was basically tied 1st in the RWD category.
Yeah, tied with Paulie's ASL Garaiya. :sly: Still need to settle that tie... :mischievous:
 
I'll have a look at that nismo for you. Just I haven't got much time on my hands right now. I'll see what I can do this afternoon. Cya
 
I would recommend it only if the stock LSD is struggling. It does cope well on stock power but when I tuned mine for TCv4, I found I needed the FC LSD because I had so much power for the stock one to handle.

Not off topic at all. We're here to give tuning advice too. 👍

thanks a lot, i really appreciate it,
my car is making about 330 bhp, and i think it is spinning away a bit of the power around corners, also my times around the 'ring, and the tsukuba are better with the LSD
 
Sorry couldn't make it, got too much unexpected homework yesterday...

I'll be away for the weekend, so I hope one of my fellow tuners will help you out here. ;)
 
I'll see what I can do about the 400R. I've got one tuned with about 485bhp on S3 tyres. I've sorted most, if not all the stubborn understeer that the R33 has, plus it has some low speed oversteer, although its not as easy to provoke like in my R33 posted here at RVV.

I'll see if I can get it to oversteer easier. 👍
 
I'll see what I can do about the 400R. I've got one tuned with about 485bhp on S3 tyres. I've sorted most, if not all the stubborn understeer that the R33 has, plus it has some low speed oversteer, although its not as easy to provoke like in my R33 posted here at RVV.

I'll see if I can get it to oversteer easier. 👍

Thanks Roj, My currently puts out about 583bhp, but thats way too much for any serious driving, and the only problem really is the understeer (awd, skyline, and too much power = understeer)
 
Hey guys, I managed to check out the Merc 190E over the weekend. Heres what I decided.
I hope its up to standards, this is my first review so I dont have anything to base it to really, hope you like it...:nervous:

So heres what I did;
Drove the car stock with the mods that cant be changed like weight reductions and engine balancing etc. And I also ran it on S3s just to keep things similar.
I then drove the car with all the mods but without tuning it to the specs that you guys have. So just adding the parts but not changing anything
Then finally I drove the car with the mods and the tuning.

I drove it on two tracks, New York and Midfield because I enjoy racing on these tracks. Not sure if the scope up to GVS standards but I knew I could drive well on both of them. Cant say that I'm that flash racing on GVS.

So here are the times
New York
1 (no mods) - 1'52.349
2 (mods no tuning) - 1'44.343
3 (mods and tuning) - 1'43.751

Midfield
1 – 1.22.997
2 - 1.17.161
3 - 1.16.725

I found the car with no mods to be quite controllable when on the track but as soon as I hit a bump or went slightly over the ripple strip the wheels would start spinning and I'd be sideways. The car was easy to drive as there was hardly any oversteer when driving on the track and hardly any wheelspin.
With the mods the car became a lot more fun to drive. It was funny seeing my ghost dissappear in the background as I crossed the start/finish line :D There was more oversteer in the car and would easily get sideways on slow corners with too much gas on the exit. As you can see, the lap time shot down.
When the tuning, the car had A LOT more understeer in the corners and I had to take them quite a bit slower when first changing from the modded car. But once I found the correct line, breaking a bit earlier, The car was again easier to controll. The gear changes made a huge difference as there was less wheelspin, only in first really (a bit in second gear at peak power but it didnt change acceleration speed).
Anyway, I liked the tuning but IMO it was nothing amazing. The car was easier to control but I think that both the tuned and non-tuned cars could possibly get the same lap times if the driving suited the style of the driver. I think I overestimated what to expect from the tuned car and was hoping that I'd improve my lap times by a second or two. Maybe more driving could have got that or a perfect lap.

Thanks for the tune guys, i'll look into the NSX-R later. But Im moving flats in the next two weeks so I dont expect that I'll have it done before that. Hope you liked my review too.
 
On some cars, you WILL see multiple seconds of improvement just from the settings; On others, it will truly be just an attitude adjustment.
 
@eschey:I'm quite surprised by your results, and a bit angry at myself cause I wanted to be the first to review that car! I'm keen to replicate your tests, but won't get to it for at least a week.

Which track was it tuned for? I think they use Suzuka and the 'ring around here, but that's off the top of my head. I'll certainly test on the 'ring cause Ive already got a stock time from one of the license tests, and it's the perfect track for that sort of car.
 
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