RX7 fastest!?

[Jay]

Just to quickly add something to the 8 v 6 v4 v all discussion:

Yep, it's true that most V8s are thrown together poorly. But a well built V8 (IE something out of a racing shop) can make power out its arse extremely easily.

It's not just how well they are put together either (which also plays a big part), it's how well they were designed and produced (casting methods, hand tooling etc) in the first place. Much of the big V8 racing scene don't use engines that come out of production cars, they use specially re-designed engines in new castings specially for racing (often based off mass production versions). This is part of the big cost of building racing engines.

Making power is the easy part theres a guy near me who runs a big turbo setup on crappy old standard Holden 6 cylinder engines, It makes big power for a little while, then he blows it up and goes to the wreckers to pick up some more stock long motors for a couple hundred dollars and bolts manifolds on then "rinse and repeat".

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I've a question, seeing as you seem so "knowledgable", and I'm not arguing that V8s aren't well put together, but if they aren't then why would Walkinshaw Performance offer a supercharged LS2 V8 producing 420kw with a 1 year warranty. Sure the warranty isn't long, but it's still a warranty on an aftermarket tune. Obviously they're confident in the engines and they are no noobs when it comes to the world of cars.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

I think you made a typo, you said it weighs 3600Kg!! That's like a small truck.

Haha yeah... 3600 lbs. My bad.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

3600kg would be a 1-ton crew cab long bed.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Yeah, if it weighed that much, I don't care how powerful or sexy it is, I'd not have bought it. It's already approaching Mercedes-levels of pregnancy and overengineering as is.

All in all I have to describe the experience as similar to what Alfa owners describe. Depending on the day of the week, you either love the car or want to see it thrown off a cliff, but when the needle swings to the "love" side of the equation, it swings WELL into the redline.

 

[Jay]

I've a question, seeing as you seem so "knowledgable", and I'm not arguing that V8s aren't well put together, but if they aren't then why would Walkinshaw Performance offer a supercharged LS2 V8 producing 420kw with a 1 year warranty. Sure the warranty isn't long, but it's still a warranty on an aftermarket tune. Obviously they're confident in the engines and they are no noobs when it comes to the world of cars.

Because they would build the engine to a better specification than a standard LS2, tested it and figure it is reliable enough to place a 1 year warrenty on them, assuming the owners are not going to race them hard for from long periods of time (short periods of WOT like street showing off is fine), in which warrenty would be void if they raced them. I am pretty certain if you blew one up Walkinshaw would strip the engine down and try to determine why it blew up, because they would be pretty certain it shouldn't blow/damage in their opinion of 'normal use'. Plus it's much harder to seel something like this with no warrenty.

LS series Chev engines are not bad, they are a better designed and built generally finer tolerances than most older stuff (which partly a nessecity with aluminium), but they do not hold up so well to long periods of hard running and heat build up, the aluminium tends to fatigue and warp that way and eventually becomes a throw away motor, while you still see old (30+ years) looser iron 327, 307 etc V8's on their third rebuild running fine.


Oh BTW that 355 Supercharged VS HSV was having transmission slipping problems now.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

So they're really only going to be a problem if you think you should be doing endurance races every month.

 

[Jay]

Yeah they should be absolutey fine for street use, that assumes it is not thrashed, overheated, is properly maintained and is tuned correctly.


Speaking of thrashing, I have a friend that built his own 308 stroked 355, had a experienced machinist go over the whole block and parts making sure they were A1 condition, then he (the owner) fitted forged pistons, shot peened rods and a whole host of brand name quality parts. After a run in period he put it on the dyno at it made 255rwkw's (not bad for a NA 308 turned 355) and he was happy.

Though he made a big mistake, he assumed it was bullet proof and thrashed the absolute crap out of it, running it on rev limiter often (carby engine but had a MSD ignition system that included a rev limiter) and doing lots of burnouts, engine lasted a few weeks before a rod let go while on limiter and destroyed most of the expensive parts of the engine.

Now he has recently built another one in a similar way but this time used forged rods, sadly he hasn't learnt his lesson, still thrashes it, holds it on limiter for second gear burnouts till the tyres blow, then empty's his overflowing 1litre oil catch can.... but at least it is holding together......... so far.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Hmm... Is he running a cast crank?

Can't wait to see him snap it and go forged. Goodbye main bearings.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I suppose he thinks he's rich enough to waste his money like that, I wish I was that rich.
Hey, with Nurburgring times that sort of relates to the topic of this thread, anyone care to speculate on what the new CTS-V with a detuned LS9 V8 will get?

 

[4DSC]

I gave up arguing over the internet ages ago

Smart man you are.. I should prob do the same, but sometimes it's a good way to learn. This debate was getting a bit out of hand and we were steering away from the original idea that started the whole thing. My main point that I was trying to make before we veered off towards V8 vs I/V6 was that it is cheaper and more practical to SAFETLY make more power with a well built 6(that exist), compared to the V8's currently in production. Am I wrong? Maybe.. Both have pros and cons, but also what I was originally getting at is that Japanese manufacturers do tend to build a more consistant rate of finer products made for performance driving, and the overall package is made with more love. I mean just take a look at the little economy Civic chassis. Thats a good freakin chassis. Light, strong, for a FWD it's really great. There are plenty more out there. I havn't seen as much of the same from the American cars. Im not being biased towards Japanese cars, just speaking from experience. I was in the auto glass buisness for about 2 years, and you can just tell whats engineered better from the get go.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Many Japanese manufacturers can be more "loving" with there products because they don't have to mass produce everything like GM and Ford have for decades. Now that Toyota have all of a suuden grown so big their quality has also slipped considerably, you hear about things going wrong all the time now. The fact (I think) is that when you have to rush cars into production or have to mass produce them the quality may fall a little, GM have probably best mastered the balance between mass production and quality, but their cars are no where near as bullet proof as say a Bugatti, because they take the time with each Bugatti to make it right, the demand isn't high.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

... but their cars are no where near as bullet proof as say a Bugatti, because they take the time with each Bugatti to make it right, the demand isn't high.

Not withstanding the fact that every Veyron produced, considering the rigorous R&D Program, cost VW AG nearly five times the asking price to produce. Ouch.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Not withstanding the fact that every Veyron produced, considering the rigorous R&D Program, cost VW AG nearly five times the asking price to produce. Ouch.

Game, set and match

 

[4DSC]

Many Japanese manufacturers can be more "loving" with there products because they don't have to mass produce everything like GM and Ford have for decades. Now that Toyota have all of a suuden grown so big their quality has also slipped considerably, you hear about things going wrong all the time now. The fact (I think) is that when you have to rush cars into production or have to mass produce them the quality may fall a little, GM have probably best mastered the balance between mass production and quality, but their cars are no where near as bullet proof as say a Bugatti, because they take the time with each Bugatti to make it right, the demand isn't high.

Your prob right.. Never thought of it like that. But I thought they were all mass produced though, other then super cars and stuff.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Pretty much they are, I could be wrong on this, but brands like say Hyundai haven't got such high demands, they can work at a slower pace and develop new cars in there own time, therefore you can guess that there next cars will probably be quality, wait and see how many recalls there are on the new Genesis Sedan, I'd be surprised of any and if there are it'd be something small like a seatbelt playing up. Brands like Holden have the pressure to develop a new Commodore and produce them as the best selling car in Oz as fast as they can at times or the public loses interest, and they lose the top spot. With the new VE they started development while the VY was still out, which means they had to design the VZ at the same time before going the all new platform and car, imagine the pressure they were under. People make mistakes under pressure. Mind you this all really a theory based on things I've heard on car news sites and the like, feel free to object.

 

[Skippy]

Apropos of the discussion, an interesting NY Times article. American Heavy Metal is dying...
"Interest Fades in the Once-Mighty V-8".

 

[4DSC]

Well I pretty much obliterated the RX7 time with the NSX-R by like 3 seconds on my 2nd try setting a 7:33 on SS..

Apropos of the discussion, an interesting NY Times article. American Heavy Metal is dying...
"Interest Fades in the Once-Mighty V-8".

Yeah, not the most eco friendly engines out there, but it still won't stop enthusiasts from appreciating them.

 

[sleepR]

yeah i totally agree

 

[davieboiscotlan]

I Bought A Peugeot 106 Rallye And Fitted It With A Stage 2 Turbo Racing Medium (R3) Tyres And Fully Customisable Suspension Which I Lowered The Car To 102 Inches Ride Height...Sounds Like An Ok Car...But Heres The Line Up Of A Race Meeting At The Ring ...........

1:BMW M3 E46
2:Honda S2000 Type V '03
3:Subaru IMPREZA WRX STi Prodrive '01
4:Mitsubishi Evolution VI GSR T.M.E. '00
5:Lotus Esprit V8
6eugeot 106 Rallye '03

Sounds Pretty Impossible To Say I Got Better Lap Times Than All Of The Opponenets But...

After 4 Laps Of Driving With Only The M3 Infront And The Lotus Behind I Decided To Push It To The Limit ... Average Times Posted Were About
8:30-9:00
But On The 9th Lap I Dont Know What I Did But Having The M3 Come Tight Up My Rear End Up To About Half Way Where The M3 Cant Match My Speed And Skill Round The Tight Bends I Really Thrashed It And Managed To Post A Time Of 7:56 Seconds Which I Thought Impressive?

Any Thoughts Please Share Them ...

And This Really Is No Joke



This Took Serious Driving Time In Preperation Approx 195 Miles Around Cirque De Le Sarthe And Fuji SpeedWay 2005 About 100 Miles By Myself

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Keep in mind that your opponents were on s-grade tires most likely.

 

[Leonidae]

and in addition, M3 probably wears it's tyres evenly, unlike Pug that is overloading front tyres with acceleration, braking and turning forces. M3 also has good balance and good performance as it is.