Satanism, and you.

[PS]

What you don't seem to grasp is that when you're a christian, it's not about you. It's about Christ.

Exactly. You're always doing something for someone else. You're never looking at what matters. You're always in submission to someone. It takes away your right to do whatever you want.


I went to a pentecostal day care, I listened to all that. I saw through it. So did MM, and quite frankly, Christians are the ones who screwed him up.

 

[Kylehnat]

That is what Christianity is about, loving God and loving people. That's not oppressive in the least.

Okay, then why is it that often times I am ridiculed and lectured by Christians for being an atheist? Shouldn't they love me? I'm people, too. I've done nothing wrong to them, and go about my life morally. This even comes from my good friends! They'll refuse to respect my beliefs, when I do no disrespect to theirs.

Bottom line: Christians talk down to me, and hold themselves as higher than me. That's oppressive.

I went to church for 18 years. It took me six months to quit believing in all of it. Now seeing what the likes of Pat Robertson have to say, I'm glad I did.

Edit: And Swift, can you point me to the place in the Bible where God explicitly denounces homosexuality? I've been curious about that, but have no idea where to look

 

[Swift]

Edit: And Swift, can you point me to the place in the Bible where God explicitly denounces homosexuality? I've been curious about that, but have no idea where to look

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

There is also another scripture about it. I'll find it soon.

Okay, then why is it that often times I am ridiculed and lectured by Christians for being an atheist? Shouldn't they love me? I'm people, too. I've done nothing wrong to them, and go about my life morally. This even comes from my good friends! They'll refuse to respect my beliefs, when I do no disrespect to theirs.

Bottom line: Christians talk down to me, and hold themselves as higher than me. That's oppressive.

I went to church for 18 years. It took me six months to quit believing in all of it. Now seeing what the likes of Pat Robertson have to say, I'm glad I did.

Well, I'm sorry about that. But they are not me. So, how can you judge me but what they did? If a bunch of black guys were mean to you would you assume all black guys were mean?

Exactly. You're always doing something for someone else. You're never looking at what matters. You're always in submission to someone. It takes away your right to do whatever you want.

so if the religion doesn't let you do whatever you want whenever you want it's not good? that was funny. That would mean you ha

 

[Kylehnat]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Here's another thing that puzzles me. God is supposed to give unconditional love to all of his beings. If one sins, they can be forgiven if they confess their sins and ask for forgiveness. So, if someone is gay, and that is considered a sin (isn't everything a sin according to Leviticus?), why should they be put to death? This would not give them a chance to ask for forgiveness should they truly regret this "sin". How can this be considered a sin punishable by death, when it harms nobody, but a man who kills his family can ask for forgiveness, even though he is the one who truly deserves to die?

Also, homosexuality is evident in many species of animals. Why are humans so quick to caste it as unnatural and wrong?

 

[PS]

Here's another thing that puzzles me. God is supposed to give unconditional love to all of his beings. If one sins, they can be forgiven if they confess their sins and ask for forgiveness. So, if someone is gay, and that is considered a sin (isn't everything a sin according to Leviticus?), why should they be put to death? This would not give them a chance to ask for forgiveness should they truly regret this "sin". How can this be considered a sin punishable by death, when it harms nobody, but a man who kills his family can ask for forgiveness, even though he is the one who truly deserves to die?

Also, homosexuality is evident in many species of animals. Why are humans so quick to caste it as unnatural and wrong?

I've tried calling him a hypocrite before but just goes "how is that hypocritical" and then never says anything ever again.

 

[Flame-returns]

Also, homosexuality is evident in many species of animals. Why are humans so quick to caste it as unnatural and wrong?

I recall a zoo somwhere in England having a group of gay pengiuns once.

 

[Swift]

I've tried calling him a hypocrite before but just goes "how is that hypocritical" and then never says anything ever again.

No, because you don't understand the concept of repentance. When you ask for forgivness of something you just can't turn right back around and do it again and ask for forgiveness and over and over.

If a homosexual person repents and asks forgiveness. It is very availible and very attainible. However, just like EVERY other sin, if you go back to it your forgivness goes with it. So when I was stupid enough to watch porn when I KNEW it was immoral, lustful and fornicating in my mind I need to ask for forgiveness. When I was retarded enough to do it again, my forgiveness was gone and I needed to repent again. With God's grace I have beaten that trial.

Also, there is no putting to death anymore for sin. Jesus died for our sins. So we need to accept his sacrifice.

Anyway, it's not hypocracy in the slightest. I don't talk down to anyone that doesn't believe what I believe. They tend to talk down to me, but unless they insult my church or my God I just totally let it go.

So, I'm sorry there are people calling themselves christians that are coming at you with a superiority complex.

 

[PS]

No, because you don't understand the concept of repentance. When you ask for forgivness of something you just can't turn right back around and do it again and ask for forgiveness and over and over.

If a homosexual person repents and asks forgiveness. It is very availible and very attainible. However, just like EVERY other sin, if you go back to it your forgivness goes with it. So when I was stupid enough to watch porn when I KNEW it was immoral, lustful and fornicating in my mind I need to ask for forgiveness. When I was retarded enough to do it again, my forgiveness was gone and I needed to repent again. With God's grace I have beaten that trial.

THAT, there is the hypocrisy!!

When you ask for forgivness of something you just can't turn right back around and do it again and ask for forgiveness and over and over.

When I was retarded enough to do it again, my forgiveness was gone and I needed to repent again.

Still not seeing it?

 

[Swift]

THAT, there is the hypocrisy!!






Still not seeing it?

Nope, not seeing it. But I do see it in holding animals as sacred as people. Unless of course they're in the way of my car. Then it's ok to mash them into the pavement.

Forgiveness is a fundamental part of christianity. We ALL sin except for Jesus. Peter denied the Lord three times when he was within viewing distance. He's still the one that was given the keys to the kingdom. All the disiples were guilty of the sin of pride. But they were all still saved, except for Judas.


Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Jesus said we are to forgive each other unlimited times. And he's willing to forgive us in the same fashion as long as we're sincere. I really don't understand what the problem with this concept is. Unless one simple doesn't want forgiveness because they don't want to forgive others.

 

[Grand Prix]

Then homosexual Christains could ask for forgiveness an infinete number of times...And they wouldn't go to Hell?

 

[PS]

Nope, not seeing it. But I do see it in holding animals as sacred as people. Unless of course they're in the way of my car. Then it's ok to mash them into the pavement.

Forgiveness is a fundamental part of christianity. We ALL sin except for Jesus. Peter denied the Lord three times when he was within viewing distance. He's still the one that was given the keys to the kingdom. All the disiples were guilty of the sin of pride. But they were all still saved, except for Judas.


Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Jesus said we are to forgive each other unlimited times. And he's willing to forgive us in the same fashion as long as we're sincere. I really don't understand what the problem with this concept is. Unless one simple doesn't want forgiveness because they don't want to forgive others.

D00d, my point was that you can just sin and repent over and over and over, as long as you repent, you're fine. Or at least that's the way you've presented it thus far. It makes no sense, you might well just sin like crazy now and then go and repent for all of it right before you die. It's stupid, it's not even a loophole, it's just hypocrisy.

 

[Swift]

D00d, my point was that you can just sin and repent over and over and over, as long as you repent, you're fine. Or at least that's the way you've presented it thus far. It makes no sense, you might well just sin like crazy now and then go and repent for all of it right before you die. It's stupid, it's not even a loophole, it's just hypocrisy.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Technically you could do that. Though, you don't know when you're going to die. So, you could say I'll repent later, be killed and go straight to hell. Also, in the preceding verse it talks about a man reaping what he sews. If you KNOW that you're doing evil in the sight of God and do it anyway, you will reap the reward of your selfishness.

 

[James2097]

Just like no one would CHOOSE christ and be burnt at the stake, eaten by lions or whatever. That argument has zero validation

Swift, religious persuasion is an entirely different issue, it was an incredibly flawed analogy to make. There are many other cultural/societal forces at work which always inform one's 'choice' of religion. As a choice that isn't entirely up to the individual (assuming the existence of these societal norms/expectations within one's own group (the christians made sure these expectations were enforced quite severely in those times)) it could be said that the christians who were burnt at the stake didn't really excercise the free will and individual thought we take for granted today. One was either born and baptised a christian or you weren't. Sure, they technically had the ability to cast aside their christianity, but in those time one RARELY did this, such was the power of religion - it was connected directly into a person's concept of 'self', it was their identity. Its pretty much possible to say they had little free will as once their parents baptised them as a christian, and they grew up a christian, they were doomed to the lions and the torture. It proves my point, one would never get burned to death if they had the ability to avoid it. In roman times, one's religion was just as solidly built into one's sense of 'self' as their sexuality. People don't get killed if they have the power to avoid it.

You actually helped clarify my point that being gay is not a choice made by a free-thinking societally-aware individual, but a person's core sexuality is a constant from the day you are born. I really think that you need a better understanding of the issues at 'stake' (burnt or otherwise) before you go insulting my intelligence.

If a homosexual person repents and asks forgiveness. It is very availible and very attainible. However, just like EVERY other sin, if you go back to it your forgivness goes with it.

And the reason why homosexuals ALWAYS got the hot poker up the jaxey treatment is because it is impossible for a gay person to truly repent, because gay-ness isn't a choice. They have no choice over whether they are gay or not. If they did, they'd surely repent when given a choice such as: "Be gay and get a hoy poker up my arse util my blood boils, and then go to hell forever" or "Repent and live a happy life and go to heaven and play a harp or a lyre".
Given that most people generally value their life, to believe that people have a choice in their sexuality is simply offensive to many and fails to grasp even a simple understanding of the human condition, regardless of sexual or religious denomination. You fail to understand that ALL people are the SAME in their universal quest for a peaceful and long life. One simply does NOT make a choice (completely independently from a very powerful outside influence, such as the church) that will negatively affect one's outcome in life. Unless you think your life can be crap so long as you have a good time AFTER you're dead. Which is really a stupid way to be. Its only the little wormies that'll be having party time once you're dead.

 

[PS]

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Technically you could do that. Though, you don't know when you're going to die. So, you could say I'll repent later, be killed and go straight to hell. Also, in the preceding verse it talks about a man reaping what he sews. If you KNOW that you're doing evil in the sight of God and do it anyway, you will reap the reward of your selfishness.

*gasp*

Have you just admitted a fundamental flaw in Christianity? (Or whatever religions allow you to do this)

That's my point about Satanism, it doesn't hide anything or make any BS *excuses/assumptions/commandments.

[edit]

*For lack of a better word

 

[PS]

I suggest some of you read this. It is an example of looking at Satanism for the wrong reasons. It's from one of my friends who I introduced to Manson, who...took it out of context. I'm not promoting this behaviour in any way at all, I'm simply posting it here to give you guys a look at what some of the stereotypical..."followers" would do it for. Personally, for lack of a better word, I think she's a poser. Any, make of it what you will. I'll discuss it more after some of you have read it.

 

[Swift]

*gasp*

Have you just admitted a fundamental flaw in Christianity? (Or whatever religions allow you to do this)

That's my point about Satanism, it doesn't hide anything or make any BS *excuses/assumptions/commandments.

[edit]

*For lack of a better word

What would that flaw be? That God understands that we're human and will forgive our sins? That you can inherit eternal life? That it's good to forgive others? What's the flaw that you're talking about?

 

[PS]

What would that flaw be? That God understands that we're human and will forgive our sins? That you can inherit eternal life? That it's good to forgive others? What's the flaw that you're talking about?

That you can commit sin, over and over and over, and then repent, over and over and over. It's literally retarded.

 

[Swift]

That you can commit sin, over and over and over, and then repent, over and over and over. It's literally retarded.

Let's just assume that you're completely correct. A system in which you are the center of the universe isn't retarded?

 

[TwinTurboJay]

As a christian, I can say the biggest reason people are against christianity are christians.

 

[Swift]

As a christian, I can say the biggest reason people are against christianity are christians.

I must agree. There are far to many people proclaiming to be christians and then screaming bloody murder on people. Jesus didn't do this. Except to the Pharises that claimed to be the men of God and were leading the people down the wrong path. Outside of that, Jesus hung out with all the "lowlifes" at the time. Teh vast majority of them became followers.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

Most Christians like to bypass " Judge not lest ye be judged " I was with a church that provided food and beveraged for the Sarnia Pride parade, and we were ridiculed by most of the cities churches and other church members for doing so.

 

[Swift]

Most Christians like to bypass " Judge not lest ye be judged " I was with a church that provided food and beveraged for the Sarnia Pride parade, and we were ridiculed by most of the cities churches and other church members for doing so.

Sorry, I'm not sure what parade you're talking about.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

Gay Pride Parade...its a big thing here in Canada, while not condoning it as a Church, we sure weren't about judging people,just out to show Christ's love.

 

[Swift]

Gay Pride Parade...its a big thing here in Canada, while not condoning it as a Church, we sure weren't about judging people,just out to show Christ's love.

I hate to keep hijacking this thread. So I'll take it to the PM's.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

whoops, you';re right

 

[PS]

Let's just assume that you're completely correct. A system in which you are the center of the universe isn't retarded?

Um, no. I don't see where "a system where you are the center of the universe" is slow, or delaying, in any form.

And what might you be inferring to when you say "a system where you are the center of the universe"?

 

[Swift]

Satanism and the way you believe puts yourself and your needs as the center of the universe.

 

[PS]

Satanism and they way you believe puts yourself and your needs as the center of the universe.

No it doesn't. It puts your desires first. If you desire to help someone before you help yourself, that's your desire and that's your decision, your choice.

 

[Swift]

No it doesn't. It puts your desires first. If you desire to help someone before you help yourself, that's your desire and that's your decision, your choice.

That's what I said, it puts YOU at the center of the universe. Whatever you want to do is what is most important.

 

[PS]

That's what I said, it puts YOU at the center of the universe. Whatever you want to do is what is most important.

It means you have a choice to do whatever you want, it doesn't mean you have to be greedy. That's the point you're missing.