Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

[RACECAR]

Must be of the worst honor to be the first guy that messed up and crash a very popular car. Wonder if you are forever immortalized on some wall of shame.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I think that's the first one in that country. Wasn't there another one crashed a couple weeks ago?

 

[eSZee]

Yes. There was an FRS that was crashed a week or 2 ago.
This guy could be the first one to crash a brz/frs on a perfectly flat, perfectly straight road.
I think he was trying to get max drift points for that sector.

 

[Swara]

First BRZ crashed in Estonia

I think that can be easily repaired, right?

Provided if the owner is ready for his insurance bills to rack up.

 

[squirlybmx]

I forgot to post this so its pretty old by now but the omgstancebroYOLO boys are starting.

 

[CodeRedR51]

This is worth watching if you have 20 minutes to spare.

 

[obsessive rules]

By the way, in signed up to Subaru VRZ, a group on Facebook. a guy in there was the owner.

http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo...&set=o.338458809523873&__user=100000455917189

Here's the story.

 

[RocZX]

This is worth watching if you have 20 minutes to spare.

That was already posted a few pages back

By the way, in signed up to Subaru VRZ, a group on Facebook. a guy in there was the owner.

Here's the story.

The link just goes to facebook.

 

[Kent]

obsessive rules By the way, in signed up to Subaru VRZ, a group on Facebook. a guy in there was the owner.

http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo....00000455917189

Here's the story.

That was certainly sad to read, I feel bad for the guy especially since he's thoughtful enough to own-up.

That said, I think I speak for the world of car owners on this one...

 

[obsessive rules]

The link just goes to facebook.

Well. The Brz group is on Facebook.

 

[RocZX]

Well. The Brz group is on Facebook.

It just goes to my facebook home page, it doesn't go to any group page.

 

[CodeRedR51]

That was already posted a few pages back

Oops. I don't visit this page every day.

 

[eSZee]

It just goes to my facebook home page, it doesn't go to any group page.

Remove the "m.' from the link.

 

[Ls2BluGoat]

Aftermarket is surely going to be a heavy hitter for this car, it's going to be huge. The car looks great, but the power output is a little disappointing imo.

 

[CodeRedR51]

...the power output is a little disappointing imo.

Disagree.

People that complain about the power are clearly missing the point.

 

[Snakebitten]

That video is top notch and puts Motor Trend and others to shame. Very well done video. As for the cars, I'm not a fan of the looks especially compared to what the concept looked like. For the money they asking for it Id go to the next tier and grab a 370z and get both power and handling and GT amenities.

 

[homeforsummer]

Not sure how much better a GT the 370Z really is. I've not read any US reviews, but most of the UK reviews of it are fairly underwhelming - hard ride, noisy and not that smooth engine, slightly odd driving position, and surprisingly, less luggage space than the 86/BRZ. And thirstier, of course.

The power would be nice, but judging by reviews, the BreezeFrees is the more fun. And sounds like its better for long distances, too.

 

[Snakebitten]

Not sure how much better a GT the 370Z really is. I've not read any US reviews, but most of the UK reviews of it are fairly underwhelming - hard ride, noisy and not that smooth engine, slightly odd driving position, and surprisingly, less luggage space than the 86/BRZ. And thirstier, of course.

The power would be nice, but judging by reviews, the BreezeFrees is the more fun. And sounds like its better for long distances, too.

Really? Here stateside it got good reviews for the ride, almost bmw like according to C&D. The engine got lackluster reviews for its noisyness though so it seems both places dont like the engines sound. I guess I just like the way it looks better than the BreezeFrees and since its a good bit more powerful I think Id opt for the Z over the B/F twins if I were in the market for an affordable rwd coupe. The B/F twins are just soooo much tamer than the concept it is a letdown for me.

I have read that handling and feel wise the B/F twins are better by a decent margin so they are just in need of some power and some cosmetics. Will be fun to see what the aftermarket does with them.

 

[eSZee]

Disagree.

People that complain about the power are clearly missing the point.

And people who dismiss the complaint are drunk off the toyota kool-aid.
The car is adequately powered for the crap tires it comes on. I hope most can agree with that.

 

[homeforsummer]

The power isn't the issue. The torque is.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And people who dismiss the complaint are drunk off the toyota kool-aid.

Negative sir, not a Toyota fan.

This car follows the same general rule of fun driving that the Miata has followed for years. Light weight doesn't need huge power.

 

[Pupik]

And people who dismiss the complaint are drunk off the toyota kool-aid.

Nobody on a real road is using 50% of any engine's power more than 50% of the time. Unless you live life one-quarter of a revoked driver's license at a time.

I have to generalize the word "we", but we wanted inexpensive, we wanted rear-wheel drive, and we wanted something that weighed less than an aircraft carrier, so figure that one out.

The car is adequately powered for the crap tires it comes on. I hope most can agree with that.

Not sure what they were thinking, using Turanzas or X-Radials, which are good rain tires, quiet on the highway, but unspectacular at anything else. Must have used Lexus customers as the focus group.

Probably just didn't want the haunt of "bad press" over tires that "wouldn't last 15,000 miles". You know, because sports cars and their drivers are known for their tire conservation habits...

 

[obsessive rules]

The tyres are of the Prius.

 

[homeforsummer]

Not sure what they were thinking, using Turanzas or X-Radials, which are good rain tires, quiet on the highway, but unspectacular at anything else. Must have used Lexus customers as the focus group.

Probably just didn't want the haunt of "bad press" over tires that "wouldn't last 15,000 miles". You know, because sports cars and their drivers are known for their tire conservation habits...

"Low grip" is all they were thinking. The theory is that with less grip, it's easier to get the car to move around, and having lower limits is more fun since you don't need to be going illegal speeds to enjoy it.

Unfortunately, even with the Prius tires it comes on, many of the reviews I've read suggest there's still a little bit too much grip for the limited torque to overcome. So you still have to drive it like a loon to get some slip.

Ironically, the less-powerful Mazda is apparently an easier car to coerce sideways, which rather dumps on the theory that the BRZ isn't powerful enough.

 

[Kent]

Neither power or torque is the issue, it's price. At 26k it's a bit high but still reasonable considering all the non-power based performance you get. However, at 26k I don't think either company was ready to really throw down the performance hand. I expect that will be in another year with the Sti and at that point we should have a real comparison on our hands.
That said, I think the Z is quite a jump up from the BRZ.

Also, I've never once heard a person, or seen a review I trusted, say the Z had a good ride. In fact, every Z owner I've met has complained about the ride and most of the reviews either ignore ride quality or say they didn't enjoy it. I've certainly never heard anyone praise the Z's ride quality while comparing it to BMW.

Also, I think a lot of the auto transmission V8 types here in America will be disappointed with this car when compared to their muscle (head) cars. I admit there is something cool about 2 pedals and enough torque to smoke from one stop light to another but the BRZ isn't meant for that sort of mindless muscle car mission.

Truth is, here in America I get the impression a lot of people actually prefer the Auto tranny on cars because it makes stop light drag racing so easy. :ashamed:

Btw, I've also heard the Miata was easier to go side-ways, I also heard that from Tsuchiya as he spoke down on the Miata in comparison to a Pontiac solstice... Something tells me the standard miata is not quite the sports car it once was.

 

[eSZee]

Neither power or torque is the issue, it's price. At 26k it's a bit high but still reasonable considering all the non-power based performance you get. However, at 26k I don't think either company was ready to really throw down the performance hand. I expect that will be in another year with the Sti and at that point we should have a real comparison on our hands.
That said, I think the Z is quite a jump up from the BRZ.



Btw, I've also heard the Miata was easier to go side-ways, I also heard that from Tsuchiya as he spoke down on the Miata in comparison to a Pontiac solstice... Something tells me the standard miata is not quite the sports car it once was.

The stock miata was never really RACE CAR. It went from sort of barebones and soft with the NA to loaded, soft, and bloated with the NC, which is good cause it brings in the older buyers. Still, light and RWD is what brings the weekend racers, enthusiasts, and the riff-raff.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/10/subaru-brz-gets-early-sales-incentives-as-cheaper-scion-frs-outs/

Customers are already ponying up an average of $29,085 for each BRZ model sold. Compare that to the $25,653 average transaction price for the virtually-identical Scion FR-S, and you can see why Subaru offered a $400 incentive on the BRZ in June.

That is ridiculous in my opinion. $3000 to $6000 more than I would be willing to pay for either car.

According to USA Today, Scion sold 2,684 FR-S models across 1,000 dealers in the U.S. last month. By comparison, Subaru sold 818 BRZ units over the company's 600 dealers.

This is also a big surprise to me. From what was said, scion was supposed to get 10-12k cars for 2012MY(or 2013, whatever the current year is) and subaru was supposed to get ~6000. Both cars came out around the 4/20 date yet frs is outselling BRZ by more than 3:1 and yet, I can walk into many SCION dealerships and walk out with a FRS while finding a BRZ at a subaru dealer is almost impossible.
I'm also worried that this car won't last more than a few years and go way of the s2000. Ok initial sales to enthusiasts and then a steady decline.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Also, I've never once heard a person, or seen a review I trusted, say the Z had a good ride. In fact, every Z owner I've met has complained about the ride and most of the reviews either ignore ride quality or say they didn't enjoy it.

It's a sports car. Not supposed to ride like a BMW.

Something tells me the standard miata is not quite the sports car it once was.

The stock suspension (at least on an '06) wasn't that great. Hell even changing out the shocks and cutting the stock springs grabbed people's attention to how well it handled over the crappy stock handling.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The stock miata was never really RACE CAR. It went from sort of barebones and soft with the NA to loaded, soft, and bloated with the NC, which is good cause it brings in the older buyers. Still, light and RWD is what brings the weekend racers, enthusiasts, and the riff-raff.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/10/subaru-brz-gets-early-sales-incentives-as-cheaper-scion-frs-outs/


That is ridiculous in my opinion. $3000 to $6000 more than I would be willing to pay for either car.




This is also a big surprise to me. From what was said, scion was supposed to get 10-12k cars for 2012MY(or 2013, whatever the current year is) and subaru was supposed to get ~6000. Both cars came out around the 4/20 date yet frs is outselling BRZ by more than 3:1 and yet, I can walk into many SCION dealerships and walk out with a FRS while finding a BRZ at a subaru dealer is almost impossible.
I'm also worried that this car won't last more than a few years and go way of the s2000. Ok initial sales to enthusiasts and then a steady decline.

I don't think the FR-S will go away like the S2000 did.

For one, the S2000 was never really aimed at the group that the Scion and Subbie are.

And the S2000 didn't really have the flexibility/usability that the FR-S/BRZ do. It's rare to see an S2000 used as a daily driver since that F20 motor can get thirsty, and the car ride was a bit on the rougher side. The insurance on the S2000 was also higher than most other cars, so it really hit the wallet hard on some drivers.

And Toyota and Suburu invested a lot into this car, so expect to see more updates and marketing plans put into this car. The S2000 hardly got any public exposure during its tenure in the line-up.

 

[homeforsummer]

Neither power or torque is the issue, it's price.

Price is only really an issue to you guys because the prices of some pretty handy stuff is so hilariously low. Over here it's a £25k car which is far more than you're paying over there, but then £25k in the UK neatly fits the 86/BRZ between the MX5 and 370Z in terms of price.

I've certainly never heard anyone praise the Z's ride quality while comparing it to BMW.

Nor have I, though until recently most BMWs rode pretty badly thanks to the run-flat tyres, so maybe they were comparing bad with bad...

Btw, I've also heard the Miata was easier to go side-ways, I also heard that from Tsuchiya as he spoke down on the Miata in comparison to a Pontiac solstice... Something tells me the standard miata is not quite the sports car it once was.

The MX5 has improved significantly from the original models, and the review you're talking about. Pretty much every review of the first run of NCs had complaints, but then they stuck standard Bilstein shocks on them and lowered the ride height which fixed those problems, and five/six years down the line it's actually pretty tidy in the corners. And a bit more mobile at the back than the BRZ is, by all accounts.

I've owned an NA and spent some time driving an NC at speed, and the NC is still pretty good.

It's a sports car. Not supposed to ride like a BMW.

It's a bit less black and white over here. Sports cars need to ride as well as handle on our country roads. If they don't ride, then you lose traction, grip, and spend most of your time fighting the car. It's one of the reasons the 370Z gets pretty average reviews in the UK.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I've just never understood people the buy sporty cars and complain about ride quality.