Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

[jjaisli]

I know you've mentioned the rough engine before. And I still say you probably drove a car that hadn't been fully broken in, or was abused like hell. The characteristics of of my own FRS changed noticeably after about 2,000 miles. It's not the sweetest or smoothest powerplant on earth by a long shot, but I would never use the word rough to describe it.

I finally got a chance to drive a broken-in FR-S and I absolutely loved it. It's just got so many feels. Quite similar to my Boxster (986) in terms of controls, but I feel like I can drive it so much harder. The engine I felt coarse and industrial in the new car merely felt characterful in the broken-in one. Everything else is just spot-on. When you factor in running costs and the fact that you can get a low mileage FR-S for like $14k makes it basically a no brainer. I'm currently trying to offload my Boxster & Mazda 2 to buy one.

👍

I will also echo what Bram Turismo says. With a proper set of tires and brake pads and fluid, the '86 does't feel lost on the track. On the contrary, it's completely in it's element.

I posted this in the video thread. I think it highlights the cars lack of outright grunt, especially down a long straight while driving uphill. But it also highlights just how much time you can make up under braking and in the corners...

 

[Turbo]

Pricing confirmed for Subaru BRZ tS. Will start at $33,495, exactly $8,000 more than a normal BRZ.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/12/subaru-brz-ts-and-wrx-sti-type-ra.html

 

[Turbo]

Beginning 2018, the Toyota 86 GT package, which brings new leather upholstery on the seats, steering wheel, and parking brake handle, with silver contrast stitching, heated front seats, multi-function steering wheel, dual-zone climate control, push-button start, and an "anti-theft device" will now enter the US market. Priced from $29,220, which is just over $3,000 more than the base 86.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/12/2018-toyota-86-marching-to-america-with.html

 

[GTboyz]

I'd prefer the previous ones tbh, more simple looking.

 

[05XR8]

I'm half thinking, the Supra will look like this, in the snout.

 

[RocZX]

Toyota unveils the 2019 86 TRD Special Edition
Only 1418 will be made. Pricing starts at $32,420.
Power still remains at 205 hp and 156 lb-ft of torque.
The only performance upgrades are Brembo brakes,SACHS dampers and TRD exhaust. Cosmetic upgrades are a TRD body kit, spoiler, wheels, TRD color side stripe and two tone interior. Only available in Raven black.

 

[Sage Ages]

Something something needs more power.

 

[Tornado]

That's an unfortunate rear bumper.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

The old TRD bumper wasn't that bad

 

[05XR8]

That's an unfortunate rear bumper.

Yeah, so 10 years ago.

But I'll give it to Toyota for offering this in today's market. Should keep the rear planted, while reversing out of the mall car park.

 

[Downhill Dino]

That's an unfortunate rear bumper.

Wow you really killed it for me, I hadn't noticed first time around.

 

[ImaRobot]

The old TRD bumper wasn't that bad

They look a lot worse in person.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

They look a lot worse in person.

I've seen a couple in person too. It's definitely not better than the stuck one but I wouldn't call it terrible

 

[Grandea GTR]

The new one just sticks out.

Way too much.

 

[jjaisli]

Every styling change they've made to the '86 looks worse, in my opinion. I still prefer the cleaner lines of the car at it's 2012 introduction. And while I initially preferred the '86/FRS, I think the BRZ is now the better looking car.

Toyota did confirm that the car would live on through a redesign, likely out in 2020, so I think they're just trying to extend the life however possible, without incurring exorbitant costs. Let's hope designers from the A-group are working on the new car.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Every styling change they've made to the '86 looks worse, in my opinion. I still prefer the cleaner lines of the car at it's 2012 introduction. And while I initially preferred the '86/FRS, I think the BRZ is now the better looking car.

Toyota did confirm that the car would live on through a redesign, likely out in 2020, so I think they're just trying to extend the life however possible, without incurring exorbitant costs. Let's hope designers from the A-group are working on the new car.

I felt the car looked pretty good in 2012 at release. I kept hoping that it would be refreshed to be really good. Instead it's gone the other way sadly....the new 86 is especially unfortunate. The BRZ Ts is probably the best of the bunch, but the stupid "mouth guard" grill puts me off on anything other than black cars. (The pre-facelift 86 has what I call "mutton chops", also off-putting). I actually have undertaken the project of redesigning the front end of the FR-S (digitally, in Rhino) to try to make it look just clean and elegant...I've not yet been successful.

I was all set to buy a clean, low miles 2015 FR-S last weekend. Then I drove a 2015 Accord Coupe (K24W/6M) for a reference point. The Accord has a real back seat (I fit behind my 5'10" self with plenty of room to spare), and a real trunk. Despite the accord being less powerful (rated, anyhow) and being 400lbs heavier, it isn't slower (0-60 in 6.6), actually gets better fuel economy and doesn't need premium gas! Combine that with more composed exterior styling, a vastly better cabin, and a driving experience that's at least 60% as good (great shifter, great seating position, bum steering, competent but soft suspension) as the FR-S, all for less money, and it's really hard for me to pull the trigger on an FR-S...I get that the FR-S/BRZ is almost unbeatable on a good road, but it's prospects as a daily driver, road trip vehicle, and "night out" car are pretty compromised. I guess that's not the car's intent. Plan B: Accord Coupe + DC2 Integra Type R?

So conflicted.

 

[jjaisli]

I have a 90 mile round trip commute in New Jersey traffic. So no matter what I buy, I'm basically going to put ~ 25,000 miles on it in a year and it's not worth it to have an expensive daily with questionable long term reliability. So my solution to this was...

The Daily commuter: 2010 Honda Fit. It's boring. Pretty much the slowest car on the road. People in my building make plenty of jokes behind my back, I'm sure. But it's as reliable as a the sunrise. And it's liberating to drive a car you don't really care about all that much. (I'm hoping to drive it to 200,000 miles and dump it for something a bit more fun) I think the new Corolla looks fun. Well, maybe not, but at least it has Bluetooth.

The track warrior: 2013 Scion FRS that's basically been stripped and converted to a full time track car. Driving it on the street is kind of like using a jackhammer as a pogo stick. Like a proper spec Miata, with the right tires, pads, suspension settings, along with headers and a tune, it's really a track weapon and shockingly fast. And you start to smirk every time somebody makes 0-60 comparisons with a Toyota Camry V6. (And you imagine them in a Camry, undsteering off the road and hitting the Armco up the Esses at Watkins Glen and laugh).

The Garage Qu...um, weekend car: 2016 Cayman S. Quite possibly, and arguably, the finest sports car ever built. Period. (What's impressive about the FRS is just how well it compares to the Cayman. No joke. That said, I really wouldn't want either as my daily, all year round.

The Trailer tower: 2016 Toyota Highlander. It's really my wife's daily. And no, towing on a unibody based SUV is not ideal but I have an aluminum trailer and the FRS is light (now about 120-lbs lighter than it was new) and the Highlander is rated for 5,000-lbs. I just have to put up with some less than ideal bumper stickers on it when I'm at the track.

Frankly, for the day to day grind, the Accord Coup is probably the better choice. 👍

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I have a 90 mile round trip commute in New Jersey traffic. So no matter what I buy, I'm basically going to put ~ 25,000 miles on it in a year and it's not worth it to have an expensive daily with questionable long term reliability. So my solution to this was...

The Daily commuter: 2010 Honda Fit. It's boring. Pretty much the slowest car on the road. People in my building make plenty of jokes behind my back, I'm sure. But it's as reliable as a the sunrise. And it's liberating to drive a car you don't really care about all that much. (I'm hoping to drive it to 200,000 miles and dump it for something a bit more fun) I think the new Corolla looks fun. Well, maybe not, but at least it has Bluetooth.

The track warrior: 2013 Scion FRS that's basically been stripped and converted to a full time track car. Driving it on the street is kind of like using a jackhammer as a pogo stick. Like a proper spec Miata, with the right tires, pads, suspension settings, along with headers and a tune, it's really a track weapon and shockingly fast. And you start to smirk every time somebody makes 0-60 comparisons with a Toyota Camry V6. (And you imagine them in a Camry, undsteering off the road and hitting the Armco up the Esses at Watkins Glen and laugh).

The Garage Qu...um, weekend car: 2016 Cayman S. Quite possibly, and arguably, the finest sports car ever built. Period. (What's impressive about the FRS is just how well it compares to the Cayman. No joke. That said, I really wouldn't want either as my daily, all year round.

The Trailer tower: 2016 Toyota Highlander. It's really my wife's daily. And no, towing on a unibody based SUV is not ideal but I have an aluminum trailer and the FRS is light (now about 120-lbs lighter than it was new) and the Highlander is rated for 5,000-lbs. I just have to put up with some less than ideal bumper stickers on it when I'm at the track.

Frankly, for the day to day grind, the Accord Coup is probably the better choice. 👍

I'm actually most jealous of how much space you have for vehicles. Right now, I get ONE.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'd not personally think twice about having a GT86 as a daily driver, and I'm not saying that from the position of someone who owns a NA Miata and a 1990s Peugeot, but from the position of someone who has ran a string of brand-new cars over the past few years including a couple of hot hatches (with ~200bhp and ~270bhp respectively) and an ND MX-5 RF.

Obviously I imagine our driving habits will differ somewhat @Eunos_Cosmo but I do put miles on the cars - over 13k on the RF in a year with probably the majority of that in not-fun motorway use - and honestly I'm not sure I've driven a car in quite a while that I don't think would be capable of long-term use.

It's a little while since I've driven an 86, but I recall it being reasonably good on gas (not as much as the RF, but not bad), decent at a cruise, a firm but not uncomfortable ride and a very comfortable seat for spending decent time in. I guess its ability on road trips and nights out depends on how many friends you intend to cram into it, but I'd not think twice about road-tripping one (not least because it'd be great on any fun roads along the way), and as a night-out car it'd be a heck of a lot cooler than anything wearing an "Accord" badge...

 

[jjaisli]

It's a double edged sword. Rural suburban life means space for cars. And other things. But it also means, in my case, a commute just long enough where you sometimes ask yourself what the hell you're doing.

 

[jjaisli]

I'd not personally think twice about having a GT86 as a daily driver...decent at a cruise, a firm but not uncomfortable ride and a very comfortable seat for spending decent time in. I guess its ability on road trips and nights out depends on...

Fair enough. The year before I bought the trailer, I was still driving it on the road between track events. And coming back from Road Atlanta to NJ with 4 wheels/tires, a large bin full of tools and equipment, a pump jack, a fold up chair, a backpack, a suitcase, was OK. But I was already running an open header and the droning in my head through 14 hours of driving almost put me over the edge and may have tainted my memory somewhat. In stock form, it's much more livable.

 

[CSMDuty11]

Oh man, I just can't wait for a potential(!) five more horsepowers!

 

[Bram Turismo]

Honestly, just get a secondhand first generation GT86, modify it with a new set of wheels and decent rubber, some better brake pads, an exhaust, a header and a tune, and you'll still come out cheaper than a new one while now having a superior car.

I put some sticky rubber and a new exhaust on my GT86, and just the tyres alone make for such an incredible leap in performance and behavior.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Honestly, just get a secondhand first generation GT86, modify it with a new set of wheels and decent rubber, some better brake pads, an exhaust, a header and a tune, and you'll still come out cheaper than a new one while now having a superior car.

I put some sticky rubber and a new exhaust on my GT86, and just the tyres alone make for such an incredible leap in performance and behavior.

I like the BRZ owned by the guy that does videos for Winding Road Magazine. It sounds great.

 

[dice1998]

Oh man, I just can't wait for a potential(!) five more horsepowers!

Neat, a BRZ tS.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ successor canceled?

Rumors indicate that the Toyota 86 is done for. Japanese Nostalgic Car is quoting Japanese sources as saying Toyota and Subaru have parted ways regarding the 86 and that the current car's replacement is off the table. According to JNC, the Japanese magazine Best Car is readying a report that the 86/BRZ successor has been canceled. JNC also considers the fact that in Japan, there will be a four-cylinder, 197-horsepower version of the new Supra, ready to continue where the 86 will leave the market.

 

[FT-1]

I'm not surprised really. As soon as the 4-cylinder variants of the Supra were announced, the writing was on the wall for the 86/BRZ.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Can't say I didn't see this coming. Such a wonderful car with a few crippling deficiencies. I wonder if the car would have been received better (and I mean by the buying public, not swooning journalists) if it had either a 2.5L engine or a turbo-charged engine. I get what they were trying to do with the FA20, but it just isn't a pleasant unit to use.

There is a good possibility that it will be the last car of it's type, ever. That is: simple, affordable, practical car that happens to also be brilliant to drive. Mazda is still having success with the MX-5 (and I imagine will continue to do so for some time) because it has carefully carved a niche for it. The ZN6 was 'just a car' in a sense, and in today's hyper-specialized market segmentation, I don't think that was enough.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Can't say I didn't see this coming. Such a wonderful car with a few crippling deficiencies. I wonder if the car would have been received better (and I mean by the buying public, not swooning journalists) if it had either a 2.5L engine or a turbo-charged engine. I get what they were trying to do with the FA20, but it just isn't a pleasant unit to use.

I've gotten a header replacement for it due to be installed in April, and a custom engine mapping. It should be making around 215whp at that point, and I think it'd be 10-20hp from perfect for this car. The torque should then also kick in from 3,000 rpm instead of 5,000.

There's nothing wrong with the FA20, but I do think Toyota and Subaru left the canvas "too blank". I understand that they wanted a blank canvas for every owner to tweak to their liking, but modifications are ultimately a waste of money and most people rather not modify their cars. Honestly I think the GT86 should've come from the factory with upgraded tyres, and a stage 2 power upgrade from the factory (exhaust and header replacement so that it actually sounds like a boxer engine).

I actually like the idea of not a successor coming around, the 2nd gen came around too fast and I was afraid we'd have 5 generations of it within 10 years. I like it this way, makes me feel I have a somewhat special car. Like the S2000 is in my opinion. Still gutted they're so expensive, I'd have loved one...

 

[homeforsummer]

I get what they were trying to do with the FA20, but it just isn't a pleasant unit to use.

Swooning journalist checking in

I know it's a fairly subjective thing, but I still quite like the 86's engine. Or rather, I like its drivetrain as a whole. If the engine was powering an Impreza it might be a different story, but I do think it's well-matched to the car, the gearbox, the rear-drive etc. Throttle response is great, and something you forget about unless you've not driven one in a while. Will happily, easily spin to the red line, makes a pretty cool noise (to me) as it does so, and feels pretty brisk when you're up there too. Smooth, too - makes some odd noises at low revs, but in terms of mechanical smoothness it's pretty good - very little vibration.

I have a sneaking suspicion too that Toyota has massaged out the "torque dip" in the very latest models. The one I'm currently driving (which reminds me, need to update my thread) seems to go through the rev range pretty easily compared to previous ones I've driven. And the close gearing does aid you in keeping it spinning.

Now conceptually there probably is a better engine for the car... but I don't think that should harm it unduly. No Miata in history has been sold new with a great engine (fight me), and I know some people moan about that with each generation too but ultimately it's never really harmed the appeal or experience of the car.

The 86's two problems, I reckon, are price and tyres. I don't think it's unfairly priced for what it is (for a dedicated sports car on its own platform) but ultimately it's in a pretty similar market to an MX-5, and an MX-5 is cheaper. And the tyres are pretty obvious: I understand what Toyota/Subaru was going for, and it kinda works, but it's pretty much universally accepted that better tyres improve the car, and don't even detract from the adjustability it has on the standard ones.