Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

[RandomCarGuy17]

The design is making me think of the AW11 MR2 Group S Prototype.

 

[MedigoFlame]

There's times when I thought it'd be cool if production cars mimicked the styling of the LMP1 prototypes. This isn't really what I thought.

Definitely curious to hear more about it though.

 

[Sage Ages]

Reminds me of a targa-top Supra with the aforementioned MR2 Group B front, and whatever the hell the rear is supposed to be. Any details on what the drivetrain is?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Interesting. I'm listening, Toyota.

 

[05XR8]

Well, MAzda did help Toyota with the design of the 86. Looks kinda RF-like.

 

[Kent]

Well, MAzda did help Toyota with the design of the 86. Looks kinda RF-like.

Do you mean the original 86?

I've never heard that Mazda helped design the GT86. I know Subaru and Toyota worked together but I'd never heard Mazda was involved. They really got the short end of the stick on that one, no credit for their work and no vehicle to make money for their efforts.

You sure Mazda helped design the 86?

 

[05XR8]

Do you mean the original 86?

I've never heard that Mazda helped design the GT86. I know Subaru and Toyota worked together but I'd never heard Mazda was involved. They really got the short end of the stick on that one, no credit for their work and no vehicle to make money for their efforts.

You sure Mazda helped design the 86?

It was a collaboration with Mazda, while Toyota were looking to make the concept FT-86 light weight. Toyota sought aid from Mazda. I either mentioned it in this forum at some point or when I worked for Toyota and a Subaru dealer.

 

[Kent]

It was a collaboration with Mazda, while Toyota were looking to make the concept FT-86 light weight. Toyota sought aid from Mazda. I either mentioned it in this forum at some point or when I worked for Toyota and a Subaru dealer.

I really don't think that's correct.

I know Subaru did a ton of work with Subaru to build it. Would you mind providing something other than your word? Like a press release or some kind of official printed material or article from a reputable source?

I'd appreciate it, would be interesting to see something like that being that Mazda managed to slide under the radar on their work towards designing this car. So far I can't find anything suggesting what you claim.

 

[VXR]

Yeah, all I can find about the pair is announcing an alliance in 2015 and a recent press release that firmed up that partnership.

 

[Kent]

Yeah, all I can find about the pair is announcing an alliance in 2015 and a recent press release that firmed up that partnership.

Even then, it seems like it'd be a bit of a cluster to have Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda develop one car all together. But what really strikes me about the situation is just that I never heard anything about Mazda being involved (and I've paid pretty close attention to the BRZ for a while). More over, to have Mazda help make a car that can (and has for some of my friends) steal sales from the Miata is crazy... Even crazier that everyone involved got to release their own version (gt86 and brz) but Mazda got shafted and didn't get to sell any?

Just doesn't add up to me. Sure Mazda and Toyota may have partnered on something like hybrid tech but I don't see (and haven't found) anything to suggest Mazda was involved with the GT86/BRZ.

Meh, does it even really matter? lol, just curious about the issue since it leaves me feeling surprised and out of the loop (though the idea of that isn't all that surprising lol).

 

[Downhill Dino]

It could be something for the Kei car market. The manufacturers there swap badges around a lot for each other.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yeah, the Toyota/Mazda thing definitely isn't correct. Not in design, not in engineering, nothing.

As @VXR says above though, the two have worked together on other projects - most notably the Mazda 2 briefly sold in sedan form as a Scion. I'm rather hoping the MX-5 helps form the basis of a production version of the S-FR concept, too...

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Yeah, the Toyota/Mazda thing definitely isn't correct. Not in design, not in engineering, nothing.

As @VXR says above though, the two have worked together on other projects - most notably the Mazda 2 briefly sold in sedan form as a Scion. I'm rather hoping the MX-5 helps form the basis of a production version of the S-FR concept, too...

Wasn't the previous generation Mazda 2/Demio based on the Fiesta?

EDIT: Toyota don't make the Fiesta...

I think I need a nap.

 

[05XR8]

I really don't think that's correct.

I know Subaru did a ton of work with Subaru to build it. Would you mind providing something other than your word? Like a press release or some kind of official printed material or article from a reputable source?

I'd appreciate it, would be interesting to see something like that being that Mazda managed to slide under the radar on their work towards designing this car. So far I can't find anything suggesting what you claim.

I've been searching for the article where i read it. It's when i worked at a Mazda dealership last year. I asked a friend who was a foreman, but he can't recall that info. No doubt I wouldn't be posting it if I didn't read what i read.

 

[Kent]

I've been searching for the article where i read it. It's when i worked at a Mazda dealership last year. I asked a friend who was a foreman, but he can't recall that info. No doubt I wouldn't be posting it if I didn't read what i read.

I'm just saying that you could be mistaken. It was a year ago when you worked at a Mazda dealer and no one can find any evidence of the issue. Meanwhile, Toyota and Subaru can be proven to have worked on the car and both of them have a version on sale. Mazda doesn't have a version of the car, they have a competitor to the car, and they don't have any materials showing they worked on it. Maybe we should consider the possibility of Mazda not being involved? Just based on simple logic that would be the most probable answer.

 

[homeforsummer]

Just based on simple logic that would be the most probable answer.

That, and the possibility that someone working at a dealership, or even on a production line within the company, probably aren't the authority on the engineering and business decisions made way higher up the company.

 

[Kent]

That, and the possibility that someone working at a dealership, or even on a production line within the company, probably aren't the authority on the engineering and business decisions made way higher up the company.

Indeed.

I actually have a fond memory of the first time I went to a dealer to see the FRS and the guys ended our talk by saying "call us if you have any question... Actually, nvm, you probably know more about it than us." To which I replied while walking away "well if you guys have any questions just call!" lol.
We all got a good laugh out of it.

 

[05XR8]

I'm just saying that you could be mistaken. It was a year ago when you worked at a Mazda dealer and no one can find any evidence of the issue. Meanwhile, Toyota and Subaru can be proven to have worked on the car and both of them have a version on sale. Mazda doesn't have a version of the car, they have a competitor to the car, and they don't have any materials showing they worked on it. Maybe we should consider the possibility of Mazda not being involved? Just based on simple logic that would be the most probable answer.

Not doubting about Toyota & Subaru working on the car. I didn't imply Mazda should have gotten a version of the 86. It was about Mazda assisting Toyota. Especially about weight saving. I'm no longer in touch with the people I worked with at Toyota and Subaru and the burden of proof is on me. So, I'll leave it there.

 

[longshot1314]

Fairly sure Toyota is still rebadging the Mazda 2 as the Yaris iA at the moment, so they still have a connection with Mazda just not for the 86 as far as I'm aware.

 

[somebody]

I know it's been two weeks since the discussion but I can help with the Toyota / Mazda angle.

Toyota has bought 5% equity of Mazda, Mazda has bought 0.25% equity in Toyota, and they are opening a joint $1.6B manufacturing plant in the US. Three SE states are still in the running for choice of final location. The plant will build Corollas, green-tech vehicles (EV, hybrid), and an as-yet unnamed crossover for Mazda.

Toyota, Mazda, and Denso are also doing a joint electric vehicle project. Toyota will run the project with 90% share while Mazda and Denso each take 5%. Subaru has also been linked to this group but has indicated they would not buy in; it would be a straight contract.

 

[Kent]

I know it's been two weeks since the discussion but I can help with the Toyota / Mazda angle.

Toyota has bought 5% equity of Mazda, Mazda has bought 0.25% equity in Toyota, and they are opening a joint $1.6B manufacturing plant in the US. Three SE states are still in the running for choice of final location. The plant will build Corollas, green-tech vehicles (EV, hybrid), and an as-yet unnamed crossover for Mazda.

Toyota, Mazda, and Denso are also doing a joint electric vehicle project. Toyota will run the project with 90% share while Mazda and Denso each take 5%. Subaru has also been linked to this group but has indicated they would not buy in; it would be a straight contract.

Cool, good to know. Still nothing about that BRZ connection though.

 

[05XR8]

It wasn't so much about Toyota buying into Mazda/Mazda buying into Toyota. Just running through some Australian articles. These are a couple years ago

MX-5 guru Nobuhiro Yamamoto actually helped out Toyota 86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada, because he thought it was a good thing for competing sports car makers to push each other to greater heights.

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features/1508/ten-things-you-didn’t-know-about-the-mazda-mx-5

Mr Yamamoto revealed he co-operated with Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada to help make the latter pair better sports cars, because Mazda believes the resulting competition would grow the market and help foster the next generation of enthusiasts, benefiting the entire Japanese car industry.

mazda-mx-5-under-the-microscope

From 2013, talks about the Subaru/Toyota collab(and BMW)

“Actually we tried to do this secretly but the executives found us out. They said: “what are you doing? Will you please focus on the coupé.” So that was our focal point and it was only with the success of the coupé that we were able to bring out the prototype of the convertible. It would never have existed without the support from you and the customers.

“It’s just my personal dream that the GT86 could become a family like what BMW has done with the Mini family. I hope that happens. I also have five dogs myself and I would like to have them in the car, so a sports shooting break would be just right.

“Actually I am flying to Munich after the [Geneva] motor show for discussion about the future cooperation with BMW. We are already discussing what we can do and the potential results of this collaboration. One of the things we learned from our cooperation with Subaru is how to bring these two different cultures together. Something like the GT86 sports car was particularly difficult in terms of collaboration, but what we can take from it is the experience of figuring out how we can get the obstacles to us working together for us. I am hoping that we can leverage this experience when we work with BMW. So just like we bought the GT86 out of our work with Subaru, I am hoping for a synergy effect with BMW that will result in a product that none of us could have imagined; something more than anyone expects. I would like that to be something like a sports car… I would even go so far as to say that for the collaboration to work we have to bring a product which exceeds all these expectations.

“It is absolutely essential to have great connections with each other that go beyond just pure business logic. I was able to have remarkable encounters with people at Subaru and we had supporters behind us on the Toyota and the Subaru side. I’d even say these connections have to happen if the BMW collaboration is to work. If we carried along the lines of same-old, same-old, then nothing good will come out of this.

“At the moment we are struggling, because we are having this really business-like dealing with BMW and we haven’t really been able to get through that barrier so far. Perhaps I need to meet them socially and drink beer and eat sausage together. In fact the one time I felt we went beyond the business-like barrier was when we all went to Oktoberfest and drank beer. That was the one time, when we were drinking together that I thought, these are unexpectedly good people…

“I have a friend in Mazda, he is chief engineer on the MX-5 and of course they have just announced a cooperation with Alfa Romeo. Because we talk a lot, I know he is going through very tough times because he is trying to get this project rolling. In collaborative projects like we have experienced, there is always going to be a long, long time where you are in doubt about it all, asking yourself, ‘why are we doing this? Why are we in this collaboration? Wouldn’t it be quicker just to do it ourselves?’ – there’s always this period. Luckily for the collaboration on the GT86, we got to a turning point in the collaboration, where we became one team (Team 86) and that goes beyond being Japanese and German, but having a common goal and all working towards the same thing. I’m hoping that the collaboration between Toyota and BMW will at some stage reach the same thing.

“We are investigating several aspects [to this deal] and I assume that it will be much tougher than what we’ve had with the Subaru deal. One thing that makes it difficult is that we don’t have a cross shareholding relationship.”

https://ichitaka05.wordpress.com/tag/mazda/

 

[05XR8]

BRZ tS added to the range

To aid in handling and performance, the tS gains STI-tuned Sachs shock absorbers, STI coil springs, Brembo brakes with red painted callipers, and V-shaped bar and draw stiffener suspensioncomponents for greater body rigidity.

Visual exterior enhancements include 18-inch black finish STI alloy wheels, an exclusive front bumper with tS badging on the grille, black rear spoiler, mirrors and sharkfin roof-mounted antenna, STI side garnish, and STI exterior badging.

Inside, the tS receives Alcantara seat trim with red highlights and tS logo, grand luxe door panel trim and dashboard highlight, exclusive steering wheel, red seat belts, and push button start with STI logo.

Eight exterior hues are available including Cool Grey, which is available only on the tS for a limited time.

No changes have been made to the 2.0-litre aspirated flat-four engine that powers the entire range and continues to pump out 147kW at 7000rpm and 205Nm at 6600rpm with drive sent exclusively to the rear wheels.

With one month left in 2017, Subaru has sold 708 examples of the BRZ, representing a massive 184.3 per cent rise over the 249 it sold to the same point last year.

Despite its meteoric rise in sales this year, it still trails segment leaders in the sub-$80,000 sportscar segment including the Ford Mustang (8714), Hyundai Veloster (1845), BMW 2 Series (1658), Toyota 86 (1520) and Mazda MX-5 (1367).

 

[VXR]

Glad to see Australia going mad for the Mustang.

 

[Bram Turismo]

BRZ tS added to the range

This makes no sense.

It does look very nice, but the car's handling is fine. All it needs is a better set of tyres, that's all.
Why don't they just increase the power? I mean, give it 225hp, more torque, and a better torqueband and it's perfect. What the hell do you need a Brembo set on a 200hp car for...

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I finally got a chance to drive a broken-in FR-S and I absolutely loved it. It's just got so many feels. Quite similar to my Boxster (986) in terms of controls, but I feel like I can drive it so much harder. The engine I felt coarse and industrial in the new car merely felt characterful in the broken-in one. Everything else is just spot-on. When you factor in running costs and the fact that you can get a low mileage FR-S for like $14k makes it basically a no brainer. I'm currently trying to offload my Boxster & Mazda 2 to buy one.

 

[05XR8]

This makes no sense.

It does look very nice, but the car's handling is fine. All it needs is a better set of tyres, that's all.
Why don't they just increase the power? I mean, give it 225hp, more torque, and a better torqueband and it's perfect. What the hell do you need a Brembo set on a 200hp car for...

I can only think it's to keep costs down. The 86 pricing has increased $650 and include Sat Nav and Toyota Link infotainment as standard.
The GTS gets the brakes and suspension for nearly $3k less than the BRZ.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I finally got a chance to drive a broken-in FR-S and I absolutely loved it. It's just got so many feels. Quite similar to my Boxster (986) in terms of controls, but I feel like I can drive it so much harder. The engine I felt coarse and industrial in the new car merely felt characterful in the broken-in one. Everything else is just spot-on. When you factor in running costs and the fact that you can get a low mileage FR-S for like $14k makes it basically a no brainer. I'm currently trying to offload my Boxster & Mazda 2 to buy one.

See, the thing is, it's a cracking car as standard. But the day you drive one on semi slicks on a track, you realise just what a fantastic little chassis it is. It's a shame that to go for that extra performance, requires a supercharger or turbocharger kit. Which is 1) expensive, and 2) completely illegal in my country.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

See, the thing is, it's a cracking car as standard. But the day you drive one on semi slicks on a track, you realise just what a fantastic little chassis it is. It's a shame that to go for that extra performance, requires a supercharger or turbocharger kit. Which is 1) expensive, and 2) completely illegal in my country.

I imagine that the 86 would feel a little lost on an open race track. I think it's more at home as an entertaining road car. Anybody wanna buy my immaculate Boxster?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Is there a fix for the torque dip? Does a tune make a noticeable difference?