- 5,897
- Canada
Uh, that's kinda the reason why some people here prefer all cars to be available from the start.
Secret/Unicorn Cars?
- Thread starter ScottPuss20
- 128 comments
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- 40,757
Since you specifically held up GT4:
These words were not part of the GT vernacular even before GT5. Hidden cars had nothing to do with why they weren't.
These words were not part of the GT vernacular even before GT5. Hidden cars had nothing to do with why they weren't.
- 401
Personally I was pretty disappointed from what little I've played of GT5, but making the game even worse by having all the cars available isn't going to fix the career mode, an actually good event selection with competent AI will.
I don't see the point. Yes, easy fast money events have been a thing in GT since the first couple of games, and yes you can easily buy an expensive car to breeze through many of the events but so what? Personally, I always make sure to select one of the cars used by my competition as much as I can. I'm not saying GT4 is perfect but it did manage to improve the career mode far more than its predecessors. Many of the events (such as Formula GT iirc) were in fact challenging, at least for me.
At any rate, the single player mode in GT4 was certainly far better than 5 or apparently 6.
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- 5,897
- Canada
Yes having competent AI and good race design will improve the game. I said that earlier too, but how will unlocking all cars make the game worse? Because you won't have to sit through the tedious, uncompetitive, boring, and repetitive races and can go straight to the fun stuff?
- 401
Clearly we have different ideas on what fun is, since I definitely don't see the single-player mode as tedious, uncompetitive and boring, and neither do most people who play GT for the offline mode.
Do you have some data to back that up? Back in the day that might have been true but in 2015, I think you'd be surprised.
- 401
- 5,897
- Canada
I was working on the assumption that it doesn't get improved. Thought it would be clear by now.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
In the now defunct Kaz Q&A Forum, the most popular question after the first couple on missing features and content, was around the offline mode and the dramatic improvments necessary to bring it up to speed with other games and racing in real life. Clearly many fans of the franchise do find the offline mode lacking. I can't speak about "most" people, but hundreds of people on GTPlanet wanted questions answered about the future of offline.
- 16,094
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
And I thought that including secret cars like the ones from GT4 will help towards the improvement of the offline modes.
- 5,897
- Canada
How so?
- 16,094
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Remember how the Black Cars in GT4 appeared in the used car dealer for small period of time? It means that you have something to aim for in the future, because when I found out that you could only acquire the cars within a certain time period (for a cheaper price than the car in the dealer!) I couldn't wait until the time arrived. I actually did jump on the opportunity to buy a black R92CP, and I was so happy because I never purchased an LMP before.
So in your term, that means almost all games available has "failed game design"?
Fun is subjective. Sure grinding for cash is a bad game design and more customization gain more replayability. But progression isnt at all. Maybe i have an experience on games outside racing games, especially Demons Souls which is absolute hard, restricting. And yet it fun for most people.
You know not all people has the same mindset. Do you think only you and some others who are busy? Im very busy with College and intern jobs as well as real life things, only can play games around 5 hours per weekend. Even to write this kind of long statement needs time for me. So sorry hearing your dad gone through some bad things and i hope hes getting better. But talking about how busy people are, well then most people with jobs and schools are busy most of the time. And im not jealous of having my friends gets more advanced stuff than mine. Im just enjoying the progression each time.
All stuff from start? Not a real problem for me. I might have to borrow from some people to play PCars, but i do play RFactor which is pretty much the same "All from start" stuff. Its also fun racing all cars from get go. But me and my friends cant be always online and racing the same thing without some progression would be pretty boring for me. (RFactor does have many mods to try. Buts thats whole another story).
Again, this is pretty much a catch 22 as i observe. People says GT6 career are disappointing and grinding without seasonal, which i admit it is. GT4 does much better in career but could be better with higher payouts imho. So people are split into 2, one expects the career to be better (enjoying the progression each time) and one wants to eradicate it completely and make it all available (All content to be playable at start is also enjoyable). Again i cant say for all which is the correct way. But in terms of how GT rolls out over the years (as well as every non-advanced semi-simulators like Forza, GRID, etc) which is the former, im just saying the former would be a better way to go. Progression isnt "failed game design". Its the way to reward ourselves. Its a bragging right for some people, and you know what, im actually interested seeing people brag stuff. Cars, progression, achievements, etc.
Again, its down to individual. My opinion is mine and yours is yours. But you should know that most people here are also as busy as yours.
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- 35,166
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Nowhere did I say that you were accusing people of getting lazier and If you actually read my post, I'm not at all declaring that only me and others are busy. I'm well aware that people have different mindsets, which is why I have a problem with this:
That's comes off more as a judgement based on your interest that you dress as an "opinion" (something that is running rampant around here far too much). THAT is the issue I take with your post as well as the other. As I've pointed out, I don't mind grinding in games despite my schedule but at the same time, I don't label people who are just as busy as I am not doing the same as them making "Excuses". I'm simply saying that you shouldn't place judgement like that on people because as you said, not everyone has the same mindset.
- 1,299
- So. California
- UnkaD
I'm all for secret cars coming back like in GT2 or GT3. I miss the excitement of finishing an endurance race or a championship and being completely surprised with a car I hadn't seen before. I even miss the random prize cars that you would have to collect. Having everything available from the moment you shove the disc in feels kind of dry.
- 5,897
- Canada
I too remember the black cars. When I found out about them I was only a couple days from the few days they were sold. I tried by best to collect as many credits as possible in hopes that I could purchase all four, even selling some of my beloved cars. In the end I only managed to purchase two I believe.
The black cars though are different to the cars that we're referring to though. The black cars are essentially the same as their liveried counterparts, (which, crucially, were always available to be purchased (i.e. not secret cars) if I'm not mistaken), only difference being their appearance. What I'm against is the notion of having even the "base cars," so to speak, require credits to drive because as it happens in the latest GTs, earning credits is not exactly a fun process.
Not Simon, but...
Not exactly sure how you got that from Simon's post.
That's not true.
I don't believe anyone is arguing against progression in and of itself. People are arguing against progression systems for future GTs because of bad game design in GT5 and GT6 and the assumption that this bad game design will continue.
I think the reason why people do not want to have to go through the "racing" in GT6 is made clear in this video:
Yay, challenge! Yay, progression! Yay, fun!
@1241Penguin Simon? You mean Samus?
Oh yeah, i sometimes an idiot in english. Its supposed to be "Fun is subjective". No idea how i came up to that. Fixed, moving on.
I was replying to Samus. Heres what he said earlier:
Oh yeah, i sometimes an idiot in english. Its supposed to be "Fun is subjective". No idea how i came up to that. Fixed, moving on.
I was replying to Samus. Heres what he said earlier:
He said for the games in general, not just GT5 or 6, which i object.
- 5,897
- Canada
Uh, what? He said on games in general subject, i said on games in general subject. So not just GT5 or 6 in particular.
- 1,806
- Belgrade
- FrancSRB
Yes i meant to say busy, my mistake.Please tell me you meant to say "busy", otherwise that leaves a scarring image
Anyhow, just because you like to doesn't mean he should. Games are meant to be enjoyed, not forced on other people. If he doesn't want to spend all that time grinding, that's his choice. That's the beauty of games IS the choices you have. There is no right or wrong way to play so this idea again needs to stop being forced on others.
- 5,897
- Canada
Hes not specifically talking about GT series.
ZedMan1996
(Banned)
- 2,597
- South East
- ZedMan1996
In GT5 at least, this Nissan GT-R R35 SpecV GT Academy Special is arguably the hardest car to maintain in any Gran Turismo game without hacking.
You could only get this car in one way, on one particular week on one particular year on a seasonal event, plus the seasonal didn't even show you what the prize car was at first until you got gold in it.
It's a shame this car didn't make it to GT6.
PS: Never knew this thread was just going to snowball into a soft argument, chill out guys, stay on topic.
You could only get this car in one way, on one particular week on one particular year on a seasonal event, plus the seasonal didn't even show you what the prize car was at first until you got gold in it.
It's a shame this car didn't make it to GT6.
PS: Never knew this thread was just going to snowball into a soft argument, chill out guys, stay on topic.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Like some others on GTP, you can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that it's not necessary to stick to the single path through the game design. You're arguing for something that no one wants to take away from you. The career should be improved and should stay. We just want another way through the game that doesn't involve grinding through a boring career. And just to be clear, all offline racing is boring to some of us, no matter how challenging it is so improving the career to be the greatest career ever still isn't appealing. As I said earlier, multiple paths through the game, you pick your way, others will pick their's everyone wins.
ZedMan1996
(Banned)
- 2,597
- South East
- ZedMan1996
Amen.
cutmeamango
(Banned)
- 672
- Brazil
Put staircases.
No, elevators.
Put both!
ESCALATORS!
Scratch that, just make it one large floor and if people want a view, they can find another building!
No, no, no: 3 large floors, that way we get to have staircases and elevators and escalators and flat walking distances.
I just hope that for whatever constraints and objectives they have, their design plan and functions are apparent.
(And I'm partial on the doubling down on "ownership" in their design semantics.)
No, elevators.
Put both!
ESCALATORS!
Scratch that, just make it one large floor and if people want a view, they can find another building!
No, no, no: 3 large floors, that way we get to have staircases and elevators and escalators and flat walking distances.
I just hope that for whatever constraints and objectives they have, their design plan and functions are apparent.
(And I'm partial on the doubling down on "ownership" in their design semantics.)
Most games have bad design somewhere in them that aren't fun to many people, yes. Even the best ones. How big and widespread the issue is obviously varies a lot. Some games are badly designed from start to finish, some have one little section or action you never like doing, but it doesn't detract too much from the rest of the game. With GT6 specifically the whole single player game is poorly designed IMO because of the 'race' format in events. I couldn't even finish every GT6 event, the first for me in the series, because I just didn't find it fun whatsoever, and that's not even relating to grinding.
FWIW I'm not saying the basic progression idea of games is inherently boring or not fun. Of course it still works in most games and not all games would suit an open ended design. A story driven game wouldn't work if it let you do the last mission first, for example, just as you probably wouldn't watch the last 10 minutes of a movie first.
Gran Turismo CAN still work as a progression based game like it always has, but it needs to be done well, and there is still nothing wrong with an alternative path for other people. There is nothing to spoil letting people have access to everything, if that is what they want.
Personally I'd be very happy with middle ground. The same single player progression based game we have now, but all cars are available in free mode/arcade mode, and are also available as loaners in online. All of them. So you would start online at the bottom, but you wouldn't have to play career and build a car collection that way. You could instantly drop into a GT500 race with a loaner car, earn credits, and eventually own one that you could tune/modify.
- 16,094
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
But for some people it's about the journey, not the destination. And that journey should take you along a path where you learn, observe, and decide your destiny by trying your hand in multiple vehicles. That experience is something you can't put a price on and to me, it's critical for any game. No matter what flaws it may have.
- 5,897
- Canada
You're literally allowing for flawed game design if you're okay with a progression system even when it's awfully boring.
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