Shooting inside Colorado movie theater during Batman premier

[Blaze_409]

I would rather be out of work than defend this whacko. There should be laws against making state workers do this kind of work. Shouldn't the lawyer be scared for his life if he gets this guy back on the streets? I know two wrongs don't make a right but you cannot be sure with the public outcry and all.

Not all people should have the right to an attorney but I suppose it would be too controversial to have rights to attorney decided by local law enforcement on a case by case basis.

 

[CAM]

I can see that lawyer now..

"Uhm, Your Honour, I really got nothing. I sat in my office and thought for a week, and I honestly got nothing. The defense rests.."

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Just heard on the radio that the suspect was a 24-year old medical school dropout. That's creepy, you'd figure it'd be like a veteran with severe PTSD or maybe someone with some mental issues, but that's just weird for me..

Anyone have any statistics to back up these assumptions of combat veterans? I'm sick and tired of reading "I would have thought this guy was in the Army/veteran/PTSD." I'm paraphrasing, of course. The military teaches discipline and above all--weapon discipline/Positive ID of a target. We define targets and follow very strict rules of engagement. Hostile intent vs hostile act. Furthermore, we understand the concept of honor and apply it even after we have served. We aren't perfect of course but we keep each other in line and frankly to a higher standard than most civilians--speaking of weapons training. Keep in mind, I am attacking the subject and not you personally. I have PTSD and would not hurt a fly. Those assumptions are Hollywood's fault. That 24 year old kid never served. I would like to make that very clear.

 

[CAM]

I never meant to attack all veterans with that post, I sincerely apologize. I've just read some cases of military-PTSD cases in psychology classes and must have over-remembered any violent tendencies those in that situation may or may not have. Thanks for understanding it wasn't meant in a harmful way, and thank you for serving the nation .

 

[shmogt]

Again, wanting the death penalty to be banned for fear of executing innocent people is nice, but what difference does it make to this situation?

Because you have to have it legal to be able to use it at all. Meaning this guy dies fine whatever than 5 more non guilty people die. If you ban it than that's 5 people who would be alive and only one more guy in jail. Who cares if you tax payers have to pay for this guy to be in jail. I'd gladly pay for him to spend his life in prison instead of the million drug users. They do not hurt anybody except themselves and I have to pay for them to get shelter, food, and sit on the ground all day. That's what they were doing anyway its nothing to them.

 

[Schwartz]

Who cares if you tax payers have to pay for this guy to be in jail. I'd gladly pay for him to spend his life in prison instead of the million drug users. They do not hurt anybody except themselves and I have to pay for them to get shelter, food, and sit on the ground all day. That's what they were doing anyway its nothing to them.

It costs far more to execute someone than to pay for their whole lifetime in prison. Where the real problem of the prison lies is locking people up when it isn't necessary. Lock him up for life. It eliminates the morality issue of the death penalty and costs much less. Life in prison will do the man much more good than killing him.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" -Mahatma Gandhi

 

[Famine]

It costs far more to execute someone than to pay for their whole lifetime in prison.

Only because lawyers.

 

[arora]

Life in prison will do the man much more good than killing him.

How so? I mean with no chance of rehabilitation or release? I will continue to contend that life in prison is harsh enough to not place much value on.

I'm not down with that 'eye for an eye' deal either, just sayin.

 

[Schwartz]

Only because lawyers.

Irrelevant because still money.

How so? I mean with no chance of rehabilitation or release? I will continue to contend that life in prison is harsh enough to not place much value on.

Well one thing we do know is that he never will be released. Harshness of prison could possibly make him learn that what he did was horrible, and maybe he will die at least somewhat a sane man. The death penalty, is just, well, death. This tragedy caused 12 deaths. Why make it 13?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd gladly pay for him to spend his life in prison instead of the million drug users. They do not hurt anybody except themselves

Clearly, you've never known an addict. Sure, they're the ones who pump poison into their veins on a regular basis, but the emotional toll it can take on their families and loved ones can be devastating. Moreover, persistent drug use can easily be linked to crime as junkies do whatever it takes to get a fix - theft, muggings, and so on and so forth.

 

[arora]

Clearly, you've never known an addict. Sure, they're the ones who pump poison into their veins on a regular basis, but the emotional toll it can take on their families and loved ones can be devastating.

Emotional toll is not a crime.

Moreover, persistent drug use can easily be linked to crime as junkies do whatever it takes to get a fix - theft, muggings, and so on and so forth.

This is true, but you cannot lock someone up for what they may or may not do, catch them doing it, don't lock them up for a joint stashed in the ash tray.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Emotional toll is not a crime.

Perhaps not, but to claim that drug addicts only hurt themselves is naive in the extreme.

 

[arora]

Yeah, I guess someone else made that claim. It can be a very sad thing if a family or part of a family realizes their best bet is to leave the guy be, or cut him off.

 

[Dotini]

He has the right to an attorney. The attorney doesn't have the right to get handed a winnable case. Here, all he can do is try to go for insanity, or try to plead out to prevent the death penalty, which still might not work.

My guess is Holmes was on anti-depressants. A clever attorney might be able to round up evidence that anti-depressants actually trigger violence in a number of cases, and put the drug industry on trial in lieu of his client. Wasn't Harris on Prozac? Who knows? Perhaps Holmes will be found temporarily insane, then go on to acquire wealth and fame in his chosen calling - neurological programming and mind control? Better living through chemistry, anyone?

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Froudeybrand]

not sure if it's been covered only did a breif skim of the posts but this kid / bloke thinks he is in the movie or game in real life or something along those lines heard it in one of them short and sweet radio news recap things they do.

 

[analog]

My question about this is what kind of person would stand up as a Lawyer to defend this guy?

I would rather be out of work than defend this whacko. There should be laws against making state workers do this kind of work. Shouldn't the lawyer be scared for his life if he gets this guy back on the streets? I know two wrongs don't make a right but you cannot be sure with the public outcry and all.

Not all people should have the right to an attorney but I suppose it would be too controversial to have rights to attorney decided by local law enforcement on a case by case basis.

If he gets this guy back on the streets somehow due to a technicality (the only way I see that being possible), the public outcry shouldn't be aimed at that lawyer for doing his job well but at the prosecution for doing a shoddy one.

The law is the same for everyone, saying some shouldn't have the same rights is already passing judgement before trial.
In this case it's easy to condemn as it's clear-cut whodunnit, but what if they'd picked another customed audience member by mistake in another circumstance, what if it were you?
Already shamed and prosecuted by the media, you'd really want a lawyer willing to defend you.

I doubt any lawyer representing him will aim to get him released in the first place, and let's be honest here, you don't become a lawyer expecting to only defend nice guys.

 

[Famine]

Irrelevant because still money.

Not really.

The expense of keeping someone alive is their lifetime x $2 a day of food, the unit cost of their residence in the penitentiary (including clothes and bedding), the unit cost of the guards' salaries and the unit cost of whatever entertainments are provided. This typically runs to about $7,500 a year per prisoner.

The expense of putting someone to death is about $12 of chemicals or $0.60 of electricity. The straps are reusable.


The reason it costs more to put someone to death is because they spend a decade on death row in special accommodation (costing more than a regular prisoner while doing so) and because the state has to pay legal bills to fight the numerous appeals - there's more appeals against a death sentence than a life sentence because it's a death sentence. Lawyers charge $100 just to pick up the phone. In legal bills it can cost $250,000 to put someone to death - more than 33 years of being a normal prisoner. But then a 24 year old guy should live in prison population longer than that - unless someone Scarecrows him.

Not that expense should be an argument for or against the death penalty, but the only reason it costs so much is because of the legal hoops.

 

[Tornado]

Because you have to have it legal to be able to use it at all. Meaning this guy dies fine whatever than 5 more non guilty people die. If you ban it than that's 5 people who would be alive and only one more guy in jail.

So do you have a reason relevant to this case, then? Or no?


Because for the third time, if you want to make a passionate defense about abolishing the death penalty, you should start by giving reasons that matter to this case.

Who cares if you tax payers have to pay for this guy to be in jail.

I do.

I absolutely care that this guy could spend the rest of his life living far better than the people who survived what he did.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Looks more like Ronald McDonald than the joker.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...re-suspect-appears-in-colorado-courtroom?lite

Cases like this bring an interesting question to the table when discussing Death Penalty vs. Life in Prison.

When a person is unquestionably evil (or at least to the point where we could not risk letting them out into public) do we punish them for their wrongdoing or do we dispose of them in a way that would be the least burdening on society?

Life would be much worse if he lived in prison. The Death Sentence is the easy way out. Let him get "street justice" day after day in prison. I really think he had full intention of doing this and then getting shot. I am sure the plan was a mass murder suicide attempt, that failed. It will be interresting to finally hear what the motive was, other than probably a plea at temporary insanity.

 

[Danoff]

I don't want to hear about this guy coming up for parole, trying to get conjugal visits, etc. for the rest of my life. He should be put down. Leaving him in prison is pointless. We know he's guilty, we know he should die (painfully if possible), and we should just do it. I hate the argument that it opens some kind of precedent for executing someone who is innocent. Bullcrap. The only thing putting this guy down does is show that we're willing to execute someone when they murder 14 people and try to murder a hundred more... and we catch them in the act... and they try to kill the cops investigating their apartment... otherwise this case has no bearing on any other case.

Put him down and let's move on with it.

 

[Adamgp]

This guy is being held in isolation. Hopefully that is just for the trial.

If they throw him in with the other prisoners after the trial, he will receive real justice.

 

[McLaren]

EDIT: no, no jail in the u.s. is a cush ride, not even close.

Some are, actually.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/13/be...-finance-lockups_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000

The issue however is that they're typically for the well off, which is rather sad concerning these places offer the kind of classes regular prison inmates could take to become better citizens. Or so, that's been what many of you are wishing jails would do.

I just ask people to consider that the the tragedy here does not only apply to the victims but also to the person who threw away his life because he didn't understand something that he should have been taught.

Punishing the criminal will not make this any less of a tragedy.

The amount of planning & the attempt to make his apartment a distraction from the theater for police? He knew exactly what he was doing & that he would be throwing his life away.

You're ten times more likely to get harmed walking down the street, than in a US prison. Hollywood has romantisied prison life, whereas in real life the smallest altercation is going to be very quickly stopped by scared shiRtless guards who are in fear of gripping a felon too hard, for fear of getting sued by the felons families.

US prisons are a joke, and people from poor nations could probably only dream of going to an 'all expenses paid' resort, where you get to watch TV in your heated cell and enjoy your warm-cooked meals, three times a day.

Dying of boredom whilst incarcerated in the States, now that's a real danger.

And that's not exactly true, either. Several prisons in the US have an extremely real history of rape, gangs, murder & everything in between. There still exist places you don't ever want to end up at in the US.

One thing I don't like is people were saying the batman people should do something etc. As if they care at all. They had nothing to do with this an obviously didn't plan for it to happen. This batman series will however be right up there with the godfather as best series ever made and has a crazy story to go along with it.

What a positive outlook. 👎

No, they don't have to do anything, but it'd be an extremely nice sentiment if they did.

- How did an unemployed student get $20,000 worth of firearms and tactical gear?

I'm assuming there is a news article that keeps spreading this figure, but it's not true, just FYI.

You can pick up the guns he was carrying for around $2,500 altogether. The ammo was probably around $5,000 considering the shells they reported finding. Even adding in tactical gear, I don't see where this guy even spent $12,000 unless he's not as bright as he appears to be on paper.

Not supporting him btw, just seeing this figure as something for the media to exaggerate upon.

 

[dylansan]

we know he should die (painfully if possible)

I don't think I'll ever understand this attitude.

 

[arora]

Some are, actually.


The issue however is that they're typically for the well off, which is rather sad concerning these places offer the kind of classes regular prison inmates could take to become better citizens.

Yeah I skipped that part, you are right and I'm pretty sure Martha Stewart had a pretty easy go of it, it's kinda like lip service or something.

You hit on something though, rehab, or just pay the debt to society, etc., seems to me we don't offer them either choice.

Anyway, I agree with Dannof, get on with already, as cruel as some might think it sounds. ( not the torture part though lol)

 

[dylansan]

The amount of planning & the attempt to make his apartment a distraction from the theater for police? He knew exactly what he was doing & that he would be throwing his life away.

If he knew exactly what he was doing he wouldn't have done it.

He lacked an understanding of human rights. Isn't it possible that this is because of his environment growing up, that somehow he just never learned? Okay, maybe he could have learned about human rights on his own, but it's also possible his environment made him uninterested in being moral or ethical. Is it really his fault then?

If a child is taught from a young age to be a murderer, is it their fault when they kill someone? What about if someone just wasn't taught not to be a murderer? What if just by random chance someone becomes a murderer?

Those are all tragedies in themselves and I think it's unfair to the person to assume it's all their fault and cause them pain as a result. As far as I'm concerned, blame has no place in human rights, it's only about knowing when rights certain people don't recognize and preventing them from violating them, by taking away those rights if necessary.

 

[Danoff]

If a child is taught from a young age to be a murderer, is it their fault when they kill someone?

I understand the the guy's mom basically told police "you have the right guy". Kinda indicates that she knew something was wrong. I wonder if the parents should be culpable here.

 

[Blitz24]

If he knew exactly what he was doing he wouldn't have done it.

He lacked an understanding of human rights. Isn't it possible that this is because of his environment growing up, that somehow he just never learned? Okay, maybe he could have learned about human rights on his own, but it's also possible his environment made him uninterested in being moral or ethical. Is it really his fault then?

If a child is taught from a young age to be a murderer, is it their fault when they kill someone? What about if someone just wasn't taught not to be a murderer? What if just by random chance someone becomes a murderer?

Those are all tragedies in themselves and I think it's unfair to the person to assume it's all their fault and cause them pain as a result. As far as I'm concerned, blame has no place in human rights, it's only about knowing when rights certain people don't recognize and preventing them from violating them, by taking away those rights if necessary.

Not true. He did know exactly what he was doing. If he didn't then why wouldn't he attempt to enter a plea?

 

[Pupik]

Westboro Baptist Church never misses an opportunity to be completely arrogant, tasteless, and (insert something really AUP-unfriendly here).

I can only hope that when they're done performing God's Work, that they're sent back to purgatory for an eternity of unpaid overtime.

 

[arora]

I understand the the guy's mom basically told police "you have the right guy". Kinda indicates that she knew something was wrong. I wonder if the parents should be culpable here.

I disagree with that, some parents can do a super job and have the kid still turn out a turd. On the other hand of course, some parents are sub par, it's unfortunate but there always comes I time when you realize you are a grown man not only capable of making your own decisions, but also living with the results.

Just my 1/2 pence but I have to say, I truly wish breeding did not occur between the incapable, I don't like the idea of judging their trying though.

EDIT: or did you just mean they should have given fair warning?

EDIT2: ThankGodForTheShooter words cannot describe the disgust.

 

[Danoff]

It's possible that they contributed directly to this through some sort of terrible decisions they made parenting. That's their responsibility and I think it's worth investigating.