Should 'god' be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

[Pupik]

Maybe I missed the post that recognized Bellamy's original Pledge as follows:

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. ( * 'to' added in October, 1892.)

Please note that the Pledge did not originally include the word God nor the words United States of America. This, coming from a Baptist minister whom was socalist. I think the original Pledge said it all nicely, but that wasn't enough for some people...

Putting God in the Pledge is like saying "God only loooks out for the USA! May everyone else be damned (as if the USA had God-given right to decide such fates)!"

The Judeo-Christian God created heaven and earth, made animals and people, and we are all created in His image. Thus, we are all God's people. Nobody is any better than any others. If people disagree, it doesn' t mean they are out of God's protection. Everyone has God on "their side" in a holy war.

We might as well dump the mangled pledge and sing the Star Spangled Banner, our nation's anthem. This is not about whether God does or doesn't belong in our classroom, this is about censorship; something eliteists perform to control and brainwash the masses.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by pupik
This is not about whether God does or doesn't belong in our classroom, this is about censorship; something eliteists perform to control and brainwash the masses.

So wait - I want to be sure here.

Are you saying that adding the "under God" portion is brainwashing, or removing it is brainwashing?

And who dragged this old chestnut up anyway?

 

[Pako]

You can thank youth_cycler for bringing this ol'e chestnut back into the stream. neon_duke, you flank him from the left, and I'll flank from the right!

 

[f1king]

Originally posted by neon_duke
OK, folks, post your thoughts:

I think that the Pledge of Allegiance should be spoken with the words "under God" removed. This is in keeping with the Constitutional article which forbids the government to adopt a state religion. In no way does it interfere with an individual's right to worship or not as they so choose.

After all, Fundamentalist Christians have screamed and lobbied to have homosexuality (and even SEX itself) removed from school curricula, on the grounds that they need to protect their children from this evil influence.

I believe that the atheist gentleman out West is simply acting in a similar manner in protecting his daughter from the evil influence of organized religion.

What do you think?

Who cares and if anything should be done, it should be left alone.
whats next take off in god we trust of the $$, and after that??? People who are worried about this are bored out of they're ass.

 

[Sage]

Originally posted by Pako
You can thank youth_cycler for bringing this ol'e chestnut back into the stream. neon_duke, you flank him from the left, and I'll flank from the right!

Huh? I didn't bring it back... I only provided a link for it in the C&S thread for reference...

Anyway, so long as it's back up, I must also ask what pupik is trying to say... I'm confused on your position, to say the least...

F1- So, you are unwilling to fight or (at least) voice your opinions? I can give you plenty of examples of governments and what not that work that way, and you really do not want to live there... be happy and thankful that people care about this kind of stuff, and if you're not, then please leave us be... thank you.

 

[Duke]

F1- So, you are unwilling to fight or (at least) voice your opinions? I can give you plenty of examples of governments and what not that work that way, and you really do not want to live there... be happy and thankful that people care about this kind of stuff, and if you're not, then please leave us be... thank you.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Pupik]

No really, I saw it in the Rumble Strip today. But I didn't see it was a thread dating back from June. And brainwashing occurs when it takes a measure by congress to change the way we speak...if that wasn't clear.

Deduct me one post (or make that two).

 

[F1man]

YES! (DUH!)

 

[Sage]

Originally posted by pupik
No really, I saw it in the Rumble Strip today. But I didn't see it was a thread dating back from June. And brainwashing occurs when it takes a measure by congress to change the way we speak...if that wasn't clear.

Deduct me one post (or make that two).

So, correct me if I'm wrong-- you're saying that adding and removing the word "god" are both examples of brainwashing...?

 

[Pupik]

No, just adding it, in this case. But any change by Congress would be brainwashing, in a way. so the stunt they pulled in 1954 was absurd, after all, Congress shall make no establishment of religion...blah blah.

Look at it this way, if you were told how to say something over and over again, you would find it difficult to change to another way. You now think this is the only way to say it. Suddenly, a law is passed changing the way you are supposed to say things. Now our right to free speech is violated.

Now, you're not even aware of this because you just think it's the right thing to do; follow the law, and we're all shiny happy people. Who says atheists have to be thankful for anything?

Say what ever you want, or say nothing, that's okay by me...according to the First Ammendment. (I guess this is a bit of a circular argument.)

Deduct me two posts.

 

[Duke]

Ummm, I gave up whatever it is you're on while I was still in college... what you're saying makes no sense.

I've been told since I was in kindergarten that the Pledge of Allegiance has the words "one nation, under God" in it. That's about 32 years now. For at least 30 of those years, I've disagreed with that statement and have been forced to keep my mouth shut when the group got to that part. My right to free speech may not have been violated, but my freedom to worship as I believe and the Constitutional separation of church and state sure as hell were violated.

I wouldn't find it difficult at all to change to another way of saying it - WITHOUT words that have no right to be there in the first place.

 

[crimson_menace]

Not to bump a dead thread, but I'd like to see more views.

The terms 'God' in the anthem, and 'In God we trust' on the dollar, should be removed.

Unconstitutionality is the reason for this.

'God' does not apply to all the citizens who reside here, thus biasing the Anthem and our currency towards those that it does; making for interesting talk over coffee, or religious argumentation.

 

[Barracuda]

Who really cares, if you don't wan't to say it then don't. you can still recite the pledge of allegiance and just not say under god. This country was founded by christians ( not that i want to get all religious ) but back then most people wouldn't even think of being an athiest or going to a different religion. they wanted freedom of religion so they could be protestant christians and not have to put up with englands bull:censored:

And its not like it says " the only nation, under god, eva ", lol. The meaning is not to say the U.S is only under god, it was saying that one nation (The U.S), under god (with gods help, and that mostly everyone was a christian) Your also talking about a time where women couldn't even show their ankles because it was considered undescent so the nation was a tight shift, the last thing they wanted to change was religion which they just spent all that time fighting for.

so what should we do know, One nation, under god, ala, buddha ....... I laugh at you

 

[Omnis]

I wish there was another option in the poll. This nation recognizes (at least the possibility of) god, but was not founded by nor is run by god.

God and the State are like this //, not like X or like /--------------------------/

 

[Wolfe]

Who really cares, if you don't wan't to say it then don't...

What about "god" appearing on our money? In our greater capitalist economy (and for the sake of convenience), we don't really have the choice to just not use money...although an argument for more usage of credit/debit cards could be made, I suppose.

As for the pledge, I must admit, I have no vested interest in the presence of god in its recital. We never recited it when I went to school (thankfully), I don't forsee myself ever being in a situation where I will be reciting it, and I really don't care.

However, for the sake of those who do not believe in god and wish to recite the pledge, I strongly believe in the idea that "under God" should be dropped. Too bad it'll probably never happen...

 

[Duke]

The meaning is not to say the U.S is only under god, it was saying that one nation (The U.S), under god (with gods help, and that mostly everyone was a christian) Your also talking about a time where women couldn't even show their ankles because it was considered undescent so the nation was a tight shift, the last thing they wanted to change was religion which they just spent all that time fighting for.

"...under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954 - just over 50 years ago. The Founding Fathers had less than nothing to do with it.

 

[Talentless]

I suggest moving this to the opinion forum.

 

[Danoff]

Recite it to yourself both ways.

"one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

or...

"one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


Tell me which one sounds like the original writing. Tell me which one makes more sense. Play the sesame street "which of these doesn't belong" game.

Look at the following words.

Nation
God
Liberty
Indivisible
Justice

Which of those words doesn't belong?

(I'm not even warmed up yet. This is just from a good-writing point of view)

 

[Barracuda]

I think it sounds quite retarded with the under god dropped though. It just loses the rythm.

And like you said, if it was added in 1954 then it was for a reason because almost everyone in the 50's went to church and wouldn't dare questioning god.

Im not saying that it should always be there but especially with all the people coming into the U.S. if your going to come to our counrty don't try and change our **** ( but thats a whole other deal )

back on topic, you shouldn't get so worked up about something like that. If it said under ala or something i didn't agree with, i just wouldn't say it, they couldn't make me say it either.

ah, whatever. too stupid of a thing for me to get worked up on arguing for. well, you guys know my opinion

 

[Danoff]

I think it sounds quite retarded with the under god dropped though. It just loses the rythm.

It's not supposed to have rhythm. It's supposed to be a statement - not a song or poem. In fact, our entire emphasis is off.

We say it like this:

I pledge allegiance [pause] to the flag [pause] of the united states of america [pause] And to the republic [pause] for which it stands [pause] one nation [pause] under god [pause] indivisible [pause] with liberty and justice for all.

Wrong wrong wrong. It sounds stupid and singsongy.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands [pause] One nation INDIVISIBLE (big emphasis) with liberty and justice for all.

One pause, very few emphases. Try saying it instead of chanting it.

 

[Barracuda]

now that you put it that way it does sound pretty good. kind of hard to not chant it.

calm down on the indivisible. I actually wish they'd change it so when it comes to that part i'll yell UNDER GOD really loud to piss people like you off

 

[Keef]

Should god be in the pledge? Sure.

Whether this country was founded directly from religion, founded for religion, or sort of quasi-based on religion, but not really, the founding fathers wanted god in there, so the word god should stay! There isn't much else left that really reminds us of the many reasons our country is still here and speaking English.

 

[Danoff]

Should god be in the pledge? Sure.

Whether this country was founded directly from religion, founded for religion, or sort of quasi-based on religion, but not really, the founding fathers wanted god in there, so the word god shall stay!

They did not. The phrase "under god" was added around 1950.

 

[Keef]

Oh yeah. Then maybe we should add the guys who did add it to the list of founding fathers, just to make the association a little easier.

I would retract my vote, but a god of some sort was still an important influence to the many types of people who first came here.

 

[Danoff]

...and that has something to do with the pledge?

 

[Keef]

Well, in modern times the pledge is sort of meant to unite all the people of the country, and make us all feel like a big happy family. If somebody happens to feel united under a god to their fellow countrymen, then that can be expressed by singing the pledge.

But any good anthiest, or whatever the non-believer prefers to be called, should be able to disregard the "meaning", and substitute the fact that they are only words.

 

[Danoff]

Perhaps we could have a pledge that we all could believe in... you know... to make us feel like we're all one big happy family.