Should 'Sport Mode' be completely separate from 'GT Mode'?

[ImaRobot]

Sure, separating the player base is something that you don't really wish for, but, is it avoidable though? There will always be casual players and there will always be the more hardcore sim racers who seek for realism. Can we mix and keep them together? I don't think so.

Yes, it’s completely avoidable because simple aids work fine, really.

 

[05XR8]

Sure, separating the player base is something that you don't really wish for, but, is it avoidable though? There will always be casual players and there will always be the more hardcore sim racers who seek for realism. Can we mix and keep them together? I don't think so.

Current GTS Sport Mode keep everyone together. Casuals to hardcore race together, with no barrier.

 

[Imari]

You want everybody to play exactly the way you want and you want the "game mode" you dislike to be removed, basically. So tell me this is not selfishness.

Rofl. There it is, ladies and gentlemen.

There's only one sort of person who would find themselves unable to play the way they want with my suggestions.

Casual and lower skilled players who just want an assist to make the game less frustrating are fine.
People who enjoy the driving feel of an assist like SRF are fine.
Competitive gamers who want consistent physics are fine.

The only people affected are those whose sole goal was to use SRF to beat other people who didn't know that using SRF was multiple seconds a lap faster. Basically, noobs who find fair competition too challenging.

I'm sorry you find it selfish that I'm proposing to remove your ability to beat your friends without having your hand held. But there's some easy advice that I can offer to someone like you.

Git gud, scrub.

In practice, SRF was not considered an assist, but one of the two "game modes". In the events that SRF was banned, you could still use the other, normal assists, like TC, or stability control, ABS, or whatever.

I mean, that seems like a tough argument to make. From the GT6 manual:

Skid Recovery Force
Toggle on/off the function for beginners that stops skidding by increasing grip when the wheels start to slip.

That sure sounds like an assist to me. The other assists weren't restricted in the same way because they didn't make you multiple seconds a lap faster. Polyphony knows how competitive environments work, even if you don't.

And while it may have felt like it was to you, it wasn't a separate game mode. Because while it was sometimes separated out it wasn't always. As I have shown and you continue to ignore. A separate game mode would have been always separate, no exceptions.

You think we should not separate the players in two groups and there must be a way to create a physics that are appealling for both hardcore sim players and casuals that want a more easy, arcade-ish thing... Well, it sounds fantastic and you are free to dream, but I don't think that is possible at all.

Think what you like, you're wrong. You should really try playing some other games in the genre for perspective. Then you'll see how they manage to appeal to a wide range of players with only a single physics system.

Gran Turismo 1 did it.
Gran Turismo 2 did it.
Gran Turismo 3 did it.
Gran Turismo 4 did it.
Gran Turismo Sport did it.
All the Forza Motorsports did it.
All the Forza Horizons did it.
All the Codies F1 games did it.
Assetto Corsa did it.
Assetto Corsa Competitzione did it.
Project CARS 1 and 2 did it.

Gran Turismo 5 and 6 are outliers in the genre. Multiple physics modes in a single game are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of games have a single physics model and assists for players. Saying that it's not possible and accusing me of dreaming when there are so many examples just shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Just admit that you're mad that you won't be able to smash your mates if you all have to play on the same physics. Because they're better drivers than you, they just didn't know about SRF.

 

[Mathaios_C]

And the sport mode will be cross gen too? Or is going to be like in Fifa or other games where you are going to play just against people with the same console? Actually i hope it will be like that. It means that they pushed the ps5 hardware. The bew fifa for example is going to have a new physics engine exclusively for the next gen consoles.

 

[RacingFan1]

Rofl. There it is, ladies and gentlemen.

There's only one sort of person who would find themselves unable to play the way they want with my suggestions.

Casual and lower skilled players who just want an assist to make the game less frustrating are fine.
People who enjoy the driving feel of an assist like SRF are fine.
Competitive gamers who want consistent physics are fine.

The only people affected are those whose sole goal was to use SRF to beat other people who didn't know that using SRF was multiple seconds a lap faster. Basically, noobs who find fair competition too challenging.

I'm sorry you find it selfish that I'm proposing to remove your ability to beat your friends without having your hand held. But there's some easy advice that I can offer to someone like you.

Git gud, scrub.


I mean, that seems like a tough argument to make. From the GT6 manual:

Skid Recovery Force
Toggle on/off the function for beginners that stops skidding by increasing grip when the wheels start to slip.

That sure sounds like an assist to me. The other assists weren't restricted in the same way because they didn't make you multiple seconds a lap faster. Polyphony knows how competitive environments work, even if you don't.

And while it may have felt like it was to you, it wasn't a separate game mode. Because while it was sometimes separated out it wasn't always. As I have shown and you continue to ignore. A separate game mode would have been always separate, no exceptions.

Think what you like, you're wrong. You should really try playing some other games in the genre for perspective. Then you'll see how they manage to appeal to a wide range of players with only a single physics system.

Gran Turismo 1 did it.
Gran Turismo 2 did it.
Gran Turismo 3 did it.
Gran Turismo 4 did it.
Gran Turismo Sport did it.
All the Forza Motorsports did it.
All the Forza Horizons did it.
All the Codies F1 games did it.
Assetto Corsa did it.
Assetto Corsa Competitzione did it.
Project CARS 1 and 2 did it.

Gran Turismo 5 and 6 are outliers in the genre. Multiple physics modes in a single game are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of games have a single physics model and assists for players. Saying that it's not possible and accusing me of dreaming when there are so many examples just shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Just admit that you're mad that you won't be able to smash your mates if you all have to play on the same physics. Because they're better drivers than you, they just didn't know about SRF.

How old are you, because you are just behaving like a child now.
I told you that I didn't play with SRF, and only occasionally did race in SRF mode for fun, I'm a quick and skilled raver... probably better and faster than you. I'm A+ in GT Sport. I just understand some people like SRF because I have an open mind and I'm not selfish.
You seeing SRF as a cheat that noobs use to beat others is totally wrong and it basically means it's your fault as you didn't enter the proper lobbies for you (the ones with SRF disabled).
You know, being a sim racer or liking sim racing doesn't necessarily stop you from appreciating other kinds of games, even arcade driving games with unrealistic physics, so, all you have to do is to switch mentality from one thing to the other.
You know most of these games on this list haven't go the proper physics to fith both sim racers and casuals at once.

 

[Samus]

I just understand some people like SRF

Who? How many? We've already establishing taking part in races with it on doesn't automatically mean they like it. Get me a petition together from these millions of people who actively like and prefer it.

 

[RacingFan1]

Who? How many? We've already establishing taking part in races with it on doesn't automatically mean they like it. Get me a petition together from these millions of people who actively like and prefer it.

I can't do that. Can you? If so then do it
I suppose only PD know how many people played with SRF most of the time and so they only could tell us.

 

[Samus]

I can't do that. Can you? If so then do it
I suppose only PD know how many people played with SRF most of the time and so they only could tell us.

No, you're the one claiming that loads of casual players do, it's up to you to provide the evidence, not me. Clearly you can't, so perhaps you should just speak for yourself in future.

 

[RacingFan1]

No, you're the one claiming that loads of casual players do, it's up to you to provide the evidence, not me. Clearly you can't, so perhaps you should just speak for yourself in future.

Are you a mod or something to tell me what should I do?
You are free to think otherwise...

 

[Imari]

I just understand some people like SRF because I have an open mind and I'm not selfish.

You don't seem to understand why they like it though, which is the important thing. Could it be replaced with something else that served the same function for them, but didn't interfere with competitive gameplay for others? Because that's what I'd like to see.

I am not and have never suggested taking it away without replacement. Stop pretending that I have.

You seeing SRF as a cheat that noobs use to beat others is totally wrong and it basically means it's your fault as you didn't enter the proper lobbies for you (the ones with SRF disabled).

You defined it as used for cheating. You did that.

I proposed a system by which SRF could be used to help new players and for those who prefer that style of handling model without interfering with competitive play. You wrote that off as unworkable - the only people that's unworkable to are the people who only want SRF to abuse the physics.

I didn't even say cheating, I said unfair competition. Because it's not cheating if the rules allow it (which they did), but it is unfair and it is bad for the competitive environment. That you think that's cheating is interesting, it explains a bit about your misunderstanding of how competitive play works.

And when I'm talking about competitive play I'm talking about Polyphony's events. I was in leagues that ran with an assist package that I was comfortable with, obviously. But if I want to compete on the GT leaderboards, I have to play by whatever rules Polyphony chooses to set up.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse at this point, because if you played GT5 or 6 and didn't run SRF you would have run into this problem as well. You may not have found it as annoying as me, but you definitely would have run into it if you ran any of the official events at all.

You know most of these games on this list haven't go the proper physics to fith both sim racers and casuals at once.

They do, because you don't need multiple physics types. Casuals are not by definition incapable of driving with an advanced physics simulation. You need good assists, and you need well designed gameplay (and particularly, adjustable AI) that gives even less skilled players the chance to succeed and improve. Some of these games are better at it than others, but they do just fine. If Codies can pack enough assists to get casual players driving an F1 car at speed, there is no reason Gran Turismo can't.

According to you, the first 4 Gran Turismo games shouldn't have been popular with both sim racers and casuals. I'm almost certain that they were, because we see evidence on GTP of them being popular with sim racers and the other 9.5 million copies presumably went to casuals because the sim racing scene barely existed in 1997.

In the past I've taken people who are into cars/racing but don't particularly play video games and introduced them to some of the games on this list. Interestingly, the ones that they usually find the most intuitive are the ones with the more realistic physics systems. AC/ACC and PC2 it took them a couple of laps and then they're at least up to speed with getting around okay. Forza and GT tend to be harder, because it doesn't quite behave as they expect. Giving them something like NFS:Shift or Grid:Autosport was hilarious for me but didn't go so well for them.

To be fair, this is with a wheel and pedals so the control system is at least familiar to them. But the further you go from realistic physics, the less a real world driving enthusiast is able to use their real world experience to help them adapt to the game. These people are casuals, just probably not what you're thinking of.

The "casuals" you're talking about are ones that have no experience with real life cars or with racing games, and at that point they're going to have to learn no matter what. That's just what happens when you get into a new game - you have to learn how it works. The actual physics system you give them doesn't matter as long as it's consistent and not hideously punishing (cough*iRacing*cough), and so giving them assists and reasonable goals and progression works just fine as a way of bringing them up to speed.

You think very little of gamers that it's too much to expect them to have fun learning something as simple as the physics system in Gran Turismo. If people can persevere through learning Dark Souls combat then they can persevere through learning go button/stop button/left and right stick.

Are you a mod or something to tell me what should I do?
You are free to think otherwise...

He's only pointing out that if you want any of what you say to be taken seriously you might want to think about backing it up. Being A+ in GTS means nothing here, you're not special. GTP has been around for a long time, and people whose opinions are taken seriously generally do so by convincing people with logic, reasoning and evidence.

You're free not to do this, but why should any of us listen to RacingFan1 from the internet if you can't provide any justification for what you're claiming? If you want to establish that SRF is a vitally important part of a racing game for casuals despite it not being included in GTS or any other similar games in the genre outside of GT5+6 then you'll probably need something more to back that up than "I think some people like it".

 

[RacingFan1]

You don't seem to understand why they like it though, which is the important thing. Could it be replaced with something else that served the same function for them, but didn't interfere with competitive gameplay for others? Because that's what I'd like to see.

I am not and have never suggested taking it away without replacement. Stop pretending that I have.

You defined it as used for cheating. You did that.

I proposed a system by which SRF could be used to help new players and for those who prefer that style of handling model without interfering with competitive play. You wrote that off as unworkable - the only people that's unworkable to are the people who only want SRF to abuse the physics.

I didn't even say cheating, I said unfair competition. Because it's not cheating if the rules allow it (which they did), but it is unfair and it is bad for the competitive environment. That you think that's cheating is interesting, it explains a bit about your misunderstanding of how competitive play works.

And when I'm talking about competitive play I'm talking about Polyphony's events. I was in leagues that ran with an assist package that I was comfortable with, obviously. But if I want to compete on the GT leaderboards, I have to play by whatever rules Polyphony chooses to set up.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse at this point, because if you played GT5 or 6 and didn't run SRF you would have run into this problem as well. You may not have found it as annoying as me, but you definitely would have run into it if you ran any of the official events at all.

They do, because you don't need multiple physics types. Casuals are not by definition incapable of driving with an advanced physics simulation. You need good assists, and you need well designed gameplay (and particularly, adjustable AI) that gives even less skilled players the chance to succeed and improve. Some of these games are better at it than others, but they do just fine. If Codies can pack enough assists to get casual players driving an F1 car at speed, there is no reason Gran Turismo can't.

According to you, the first 4 Gran Turismo games shouldn't have been popular with both sim racers and casuals. I'm almost certain that they were, because we see evidence on GTP of them being popular with sim racers and the other 9.5 million copies presumably went to casuals because the sim racing scene barely existed in 1997.

In the past I've taken people who are into cars/racing but don't particularly play video games and introduced them to some of the games on this list. Interestingly, the ones that they usually find the most intuitive are the ones with the more realistic physics systems. AC/ACC and PC2 it took them a couple of laps and then they're at least up to speed with getting around okay. Forza and GT tend to be harder, because it doesn't quite behave as they expect. Giving them something like NFS:Shift or Grid:Autosport was hilarious for me but didn't go so well for them.

To be fair, this is with a wheel and pedals so the control system is at least familiar to them. But the further you go from realistic physics, the less a real world driving enthusiast is able to use their real world experience to help them adapt to the game. These people are casuals, just probably not what you're thinking of.

The "casuals" you're talking about are ones that have no experience with real life cars or with racing games, and at that point they're going to have to learn no matter what. That's just what happens when you get into a new game - you have to learn how it works. The actual physics system you give them doesn't matter as long as it's consistent and not hideously punishing (cough*iRacing*cough), and so giving them assists and reasonable goals and progression works just fine as a way of bringing them up to speed.

You think very little of gamers that it's too much to expect them to have fun learning something as simple as the physics system in Gran Turismo. If people can persevere through learning Dark Souls combat then they can persevere through learning go button/stop button/left and right stick.


He's only pointing out that if you want any of what you say to be taken seriously you might want to think about backing it up. Being A+ in GTS means nothing here, you're not special. GTP has been around for a long time, and people whose opinions are taken seriously generally do so by convincing people with logic, reasoning and evidence.

You're free not to do this, but why should any of us listen to RacingFan1 from the internet if you can't provide any justification for what you're claiming? If you want to establish that SRF is a vitally important part of a racing game for casuals despite it not being included in GTS or any other similar games in the genre outside of GT5+6 then you'll probably need something more to back that up than "I think some people like it".

It's funny that you are accusing others of being obtuse, you won't move an inch from your position and you try to change my opinion, which I don't need to because just because you think I should.
I explained why this "intereference" could no longer exist if things have been done properly and separate all events in SRF on and off, but you ignore it.
In the times of old Gran Turismo games, the whole thing was very primitive, there were not advanced sim racers out there yet, it was the time when arcade and simulation subgenres were still only in process of formation.
I never said i'm special for being A+ that's just a ridiculous assumption coming from you. I just said I'm a good driver as you thought I was a "SRF noob".
I dont care if you take me seriously or not. Who are you anyway. If you don't want to read my opinions then don't read them, it is that simple.
Learn to accept different opinions than yours please. I do respect your different opinion but you won't change mine.

 

[Imari]

It's funny that you are accusing others of being obtuse, you won't move an inch from your position and you try to change my opinion, which I don't need to because just because you think I should.

Perhaps you don't understand how discussion works on a discussion forum. I don't care at all whether you change your mind, but if you propose something (adding SRF to GT7) and I think it's a bad idea I'm going to say so and explain why. If you think I'm wrong and choose to respond, then that's what's called a discussion.

I'm calling you obtuse because you keep presenting "doing other events" in GT5 and 6 as if it was a solution. You claimed to play without SRF, and so I fail to see how you didn't come up against at least a few situations where an event you wanted to do was SRF only. If you didn't think it was a big deal and played anyway, fine.

I explained why this "intereference" could no longer exist if things have been done properly and separate all events in SRF on and off, but you ignore it.

Because you haven't explained the reason why splitting the player base of the game in half is actually desirable. I mean, if Polyphony were going to do that why would they not just make two games and make twice as much money? What advantage is there to breaking your game right down the middle when 5/7 Gran Turismo games have been incredibly successful by not doing that. The two that did have SRF are 5th and 7th in terms of units sold, which isn't a great metric but doesn't point to wild popularity amongst the casual audience.

In the times of old Gran Turismo games, the whole thing was very primitive, there were not advanced sim racers out there yet, it was the time when arcade and simulation subgenres were still only in process of formation.

2005 was primitive? Gran Turismo 3 and 4 are still pretty widely regarded as the best games in the series, and there are reasonable arguments to be made for that.

Besides, the point isn't about sim racers, it's about casuals. If casuals enjoyed those games as they were with their single physics system what's changed that in 2021 casuals can't enjoy those games any more?

I dont care if you take me seriously or not. Who are you anyway. If you don't want to read my opinions then don't read them, it is that simple.

I wasn't talking about me, you can see my opinions of what you're saying expressed to you directly. It was advice if you wanted to be persuasive to a larger audience. Like the rest of GTP, or potentially Polyphony if they happened to be reading. I assume ultimately the point is that you'd quite like to convince Polyphony that it would be a good idea to put SRF in GT7?

Learn to accept different opinions than yours please. I do respect your different opinion but you won't change mine.

If you want me to accept your opinion, convince me that it's correct. I'm not accepting it just because RacingFan1 from the internet says so. Convince me with logic, reasoning and evidence that SRF would make GT7 more appealing to more players than a game with an assist package such as the one I described or any other solution.

Obviously I think I'm correct but I'm not so arrogant as to think that I'm never wrong. I'm wrong all the time, it's basically my job. You provide me a convincing argument that SRF is the best solution, and I'll apologise and help you spread the word that SRF should be included in GT7. Note that logic and evidence needs more than "I think lots of people like SRF" and "I saw lots of lobbies that allowed SRF", you need to clearly explain your reasoning and where possible support it with factual evidence. At minimum, I'd suggest you'd need have clear answers to the following questions:

-Why is SRF better than or needed in addition to traditional assists? What problems does it solve?
-Why is splitting the playerbase the best solution for the game? What problems does this solve or cause?
-What solutions do other games use, and why are they worse than SRF?
-Can you provide a logical reason why Polyphony might have chosen to remove SRF for GTS? What problems did this cause?
-What evidence is there that SRF will be well received by casual players/hardcore solo players/competitive players? How confident in your answer are you?
-What negative impacts might SRF have on casual players/hardcore solo players/competitive players?
-Will adding SRF have any advantages or disadvantages for other parts of the game design, eg. career mode, casual network play, time trials, competitive multiplayer, etc.?
-How will this impact the brand of Gran Turismo and it's stated goals of realistic simulation?
+Probably more things that will become obvious if you choose to continue talking about this.

I'd suggest that SRF was removed from GTS because Polyphony asked themselves these questions, and the answers told them that it was more trouble than benefit. They already had the tech, they clearly could have implemented it if they wanted to but they didn't. I've outlined what some reasoning for this might be in my other posts. If you want more specifics then feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer, but if you want to make a case for SRF then you'll need to be thinking about it on this sort of scale.

 

[RacingFan1]

Perhaps you don't understand how discussion works on a discussion forum. I don't care at all whether you change your mind, but if you propose something (adding SRF to GT7) and I think it's a bad idea I'm going to say so and explain why. If you think I'm wrong and choose to respond, then that's what's called a discussion.

I'm calling you obtuse because you keep presenting "doing other events" in GT5 and 6 as if it was a solution. You claimed to play without SRF, and so I fail to see how you didn't come up against at least a few situations where an event you wanted to do was SRF only. If you didn't think it was a big deal and played anyway, fine.

Because you haven't explained the reason why splitting the player base of the game in half is actually desirable. I mean, if Polyphony were going to do that why would they not just make two games and make twice as much money? What advantage is there to breaking your game right down the middle when 5/7 Gran Turismo games have been incredibly successful by not doing that. The two that did have SRF are 5th and 7th in terms of units sold, which isn't a great metric but doesn't point to wild popularity amongst the casual audience.


2005 was primitive? Gran Turismo 3 and 4 are still pretty widely regarded as the best games in the series, and there are reasonable arguments to be made for that.

Besides, the point isn't about sim racers, it's about casuals. If casuals enjoyed those games as they were with their single physics system what's changed that in 2021 casuals can't enjoy those games any more?


I wasn't talking about me, you can see my opinions of what you're saying expressed to you directly. It was advice if you wanted to be persuasive to a larger audience. Like the rest of GTP, or potentially Polyphony if they happened to be reading. I assume ultimately the point is that you'd quite like to convince Polyphony that it would be a good idea to put SRF in GT7?


If you want me to accept your opinion, convince me that it's correct. I'm not accepting it just because RacingFan1 from the internet says so. Convince me with logic, reasoning and evidence that SRF would make GT7 more appealing to more players than a game with an assist package such as the one I described or any other solution.

Obviously I think I'm correct but I'm not so arrogant as to think that I'm never wrong. I'm wrong all the time, it's basically my job. You provide me a convincing argument that SRF is the best solution, and I'll apologise and help you spread the word that SRF should be included in GT7. Note that logic and evidence needs more than "I think lots of people like SRF" and "I saw lots of lobbies that allowed SRF", you need to clearly explain your reasoning and where possible support it with factual evidence. At minimum, I'd suggest you'd need have clear answers to the following questions:

-Why is SRF better than or needed in addition to traditional assists? What problems does it solve?
-Why is splitting the playerbase the best solution for the game? What problems does this solve or cause?
-What solutions do other games use, and why are they worse than SRF?
-Can you provide a logical reason why Polyphony might have chosen to remove SRF for GTS? What problems did this cause?
-What evidence is there that SRF will be well received by casual players/hardcore solo players/competitive players? How confident in your answer are you?
-What negative impacts might SRF have on casual players/hardcore solo players/competitive players?
-Will adding SRF have any advantages or disadvantages for other parts of the game design, eg. career mode, casual network play, time trials, competitive multiplayer, etc.?
-How will this impact the brand of Gran Turismo and it's stated goals of realistic simulation?
+Probably more things that will become obvious if you choose to continue talking about this.

I'd suggest that SRF was removed from GTS because Polyphony asked themselves these questions, and the answers told them that it was more trouble than benefit. They already had the tech, they clearly could have implemented it if they wanted to but they didn't. I've outlined what some reasoning for this might be in my other posts. If you want more specifics then feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer, but if you want to make a case for SRF then you'll need to be thinking about it on this sort of scale.

Agree to disagree - Mainly because I'm getting bored of this.
I think you are taking this internet forum too seriously, you are debating like your life depends on it. Also PD will do what they want, not what GTPlanet users say... I dont think they read much here anyway.

 

[Famine]

I dont think they read much here anyway.

 

[ImaRobot]

Agree to disagree - Mainly because I'm getting bored of this.
I think you are taking this internet forum too seriously, you are debating like your life depends on it. Also PD will do what they want, not what GTPlanet users say... I dont think they read much here anyway.

That’s some good ol fashion deflection.

 

[FPV MIC]

I didn't even say cheating, I said unfair competition. Because it's not cheating if the rules allow it (which they did), but it is unfair and it is bad for the competitive environment. That you think that's cheating is interesting, it explains a bit about your misunderstanding of how competitive play works.

SRF was actually used as a blatant cheat in Quick Match in GT6. There was a way to have it activated in the Expert races, which were supposed to be SRF disabled races, and it was regularly used by scrubs who couldn't win without it.

And you're dead right that it could be worth multiple seconds per lap depending on the track.

Activating SRF in some quick matches?

As some of you may know, it's possible to see SRF turned on in some non SRF quick matches (expert events) and it gives you a huge advantage over the non SRF users. To the point that a lot of people run practically every quick match with SRF enabled (looking for it) and as you can imagine...

www.gtplanet.net

-Can you provide a logical reason why Polyphony might have chosen to remove SRF for GTS? What problems did this cause?

I'd suggest that SRF was removed from GTS because Polyphony asked themselves these questions, and the answers told them that it was more trouble than benefit.

I'd suggest you're correct because as above we tried several times to have it fixed in GT6 but PD could only make the problem 'less bad'.

 

[Imari]

I think you are taking this internet forum too seriously, you are debating like your life depends on it.

Funny story - about half of Australia is in lockdown at the moment. There's only so much work from home I can do and only so many hours of playing games before coming on the internet and talking about Gran Turismo and game design seems really appealing.

So yeah, maybe you get a more detailed answer than I would normally give because I'm literally locked in my house and have nothing else to do. I mean, "you're taking this too seriously" is also a pretty classic way to say "I'm unable to address any of the points that you've made so I'm just going to try and paint this as a personal deficiency on your part". But I thought you might enjoy hearing about some of the social factors that give me time to write up thousand word posts several times a day.

Fortunately, it's looking like where I live we're probably coming out of lockdown midnight tomorrow, so that'll be nice. Then you can post about old assists that were terrible for the game as much as you like and I'll probably only have time to post quick mocking replies.

 

[RacingFan1]

SRF was actually used as a blatant cheat in Quick Match in GT6. There was a way to have it activated in the Expert races, which were supposed to be SRF disabled races, and it was regularly used by scrubs who couldn't win without it.

And you're dead right that it could be worth multiple seconds per lap depending on the track.

Activating SRF in some quick matches?

As some of you may know, it's possible to see SRF turned on in some non SRF quick matches (expert events) and it gives you a huge advantage over the non SRF users. To the point that a lot of people run practically every quick match with SRF enabled (looking for it) and as you can imagine...

www.gtplanet.net

I'd suggest you're correct because as above we tried several times to have it fixed in GT6 but PD could only make the problem 'less bad'.

Right, so because there was that bug (or programming error or whatever) it means SRF must be a cheat.
You could also cheat by taking shortcuts in some tracks because due to a bug they could be used to get a better laptime. So by this logic, remove those tracks altogether, because those tracks bring cheating.

Funny story - about half of Australia is in lockdown at the moment. There's only so much work from home I can do and only so many hours of playing games before coming on the internet and talking about Gran Turismo and game design seems really appealing.

So yeah, maybe you get a more detailed answer than I would normally give because I'm literally locked in my house and have nothing else to do. I mean, "you're taking this too seriously" is also a pretty classic way to say "I'm unable to address any of the points that you've made so I'm just going to try and paint this as a personal deficiency on your part". But I thought you might enjoy hearing about some of the social factors that give me time to write up thousand word posts several times a day.

Fortunately, it's looking like where I live we're probably coming out of lockdown midnight tomorrow, so that'll be nice. Then you can post about old assists that were terrible for the game as much as you like and I'll probably only have time to post quick mocking replies.

Australian government seem to be lockdown lunatics, since your pandemic data is one of the best in the entire world, yet the measures they apply are one of the most extreme.

 

[FPV MIC]

Right, so because there was that bug (or programming error or whatever) it means SRF must be a cheat.
You could also cheat by taking shortcuts in some tracks because due to a bug they could be used to get a better laptime. So by this logic, remove those tracks altogether, because those tracks bring cheating.

Where did I say it must be a cheat. I said it had been used as a blatant cheat in Quick Matches, and that it was used by scrubs that couldn't win unless they used SRF as a blatant cheat (in Quick Matches). Not the same thing.

It was very easy to spot those that were deliberately trying to activate it by the way they kept joining, exiting and re-joining until the SRF bug stuck. It was also very, very easy to spot those using it by the speed and slip angles they could obtain without spinning on corners. Their cars had an odd what I could only describe as a jinking motion when the SRF saved them mid corner.

And it did (SRF) drastically change the way cars handled in any mode it could be used in. It also changed the way cars could be tuned. While the GT games have never been accurate in their tuning methods SRF took this to whole new level of ridiculous.

 

[RacingFan1]

Where did I say it must be a cheat. I said it had been used as a blatant cheat in Quick Matches, and that it was used by scrubs that couldn't win unless they used SRF as a blatant cheat (in Quick Matches). Not the same thing.

It was very easy to spot those that were deliberately trying to activate it by the way they kept joining, exiting and re-joining until the SRF bug stuck. It was also very, very easy to spot those using it by the speed and slip angles they could obtain without spinning on corners. Their cars had an odd what I could only describe as a jinking motion when the SRF saved them mid corner.

And it did (SRF) drastically change the way cars handled in any mode it could be used in. It also changed the way cars could be tuned. While the GT games have never been accurate in their tuning methods SRF took this to whole new level of ridiculous.

So I'm saying it's the bug's fault, not SRF's fault.

 

[FPV MIC]

So I'm saying it's the bug's fault, not SRF's fault.

And I'd agree with that statement, but that's not what you said. You said...

Right, so because there was that bug (or programming error or whatever) it means SRF must be a cheat.

... and this I did not say, or even imply. I said that SRF had been used in one specific mode in GT6 as a blatant cheat, not that SRF must be a cheat. It wasn't a blanket statement.

I think PD recognized that SRF was just way too overpowering as far as aids go, and while still being fairly unrealistic IMO the far less intrusive countersteering assistance in GT Sport is much better than SRF ever was, especially when it's set to weak.