Should the Veyron have a place in GT6

[Youngun]

All I'm saying is that the X1 doesn't exist in real life, therefore, it has no place in GT5.

Nether does a tuned veyron but we can do it in game, it's a game, let it go. Did you complain about the Nike one in GT4? I still think its possible to create a 95% accurate working racer with enough funding, cornering at 300?, since that's around top speed, who corners at top speed. And to go back a little, modern F1s can take corners at 200 so with the X1s larger downforce, 250 is possible.

 

[Samus]

Modern F1 cars do not take corners at 200mph, on most tracks they aren't even geared to reach 200mph on the straights. The X1 in the game is a long, long way beyond anything a modern F1 can do, the lap times show this.

 

[Youngun]

Modern F1 cars do not take corners at 200mph, on most tracks they aren't even geared to reach 200mph on the straights. The X1 in the game is a long, long way beyond anything a modern F1 can do, the lap times show this.

That's the gearing but are capable with correct set up. Most tracks see the cars topping out at 220 at least, maybe 190 at monaco (due to higher downforce settings). And many corner can be taken at full throttle, yes not all corners but some, I don't drive x1 with 100% throttle all the time anyway. Fastest this year I've seen without slip stream is 365kph from mclaren, only slowing for a slow hairpin. Not a long way to be fair, just a lot of funding away. I would replace carbon fibre with carbo-tanium instead, stronger and can be lighter.

 

[Samus]

No offence but you do watch F1? The only track the cars get anywhere near 220mph is Monza because it's long straights and few corners but at every other track 180-200 is the rough top end. As for cornering they're not even close to the X1, the fact they're 30 seconds slower around Suzuka is quite clear.

I'd love to see your stats for a McLaren hitting 365kph. The official stats can be found on f1.com. In Monaco the fastest was 175mph, In Canada which is pretty low downforce it was only 201mph.

 

[Youngun]

No offence but you do watch F1? The only track the cars get anywhere near 220mph is Monza because it's long straights and few corners but at every other track 180-200 is the rough top end. As for cornering they're not even close to the X1, the fact they're 30 seconds slower around Suzuka is quite clear.

I'd love to see your stats for a McLaren hitting 365kph. The official stats can be found on f1.com. In Monaco the fastest was 175mph, In Canada which is pretty low downforce it was only 201mph.

No stats just memory, think it was Hamilton (may if been 345) and I watch every race/ practise/ qualifying (SkysportsF1) but they were faster with the v10s. I'm just saying, Christ. Not just this year tho, and x1 has bigger engine and bigger torque/power graph plus lots of winglets etc. not saying possible but more improbable at this time, few years down the line maybe in Le man but F1 is open wheel racing. 2014 is the v6 turbos so slower again. X1 may never happen unless there create a new series.

 

[Samus]

Well I only picked up on it because you claimed F1 cars take corners at 200mph so an X1 taking them at 300 isn't much more.

I'm also not saying the X2010 is not possible to exist, simply that nothing close to it DOES currently exist and that's why many people do not want it in GT6.

 

[Exorcet]

All I'm saying is that the X1 doesn't exist in real life, therefore, it has no place in GT5.

Cars that don't exist in real life have been part of GT since the beginning. It's not like the X1 changed anything.

Modern F1 cars do not take corners at 200mph, on most tracks they aren't even geared to reach 200mph on the straights. The X1 in the game is a long, long way beyond anything a modern F1 can do, the lap times show this.

There's a lot of room to exceed the capability of F1 cars when they're so limited. For one, the X1 isn't open wheel and it has double the power of F1 cars. 1500 hp is not unheard of. It weighs about the same as a F1 car + ballast, and fan cars have always dominated to the point where everyone who did not have them wanted them banned. It's obviously going to be much faster than F1's, and 200+ mph cornering is no big deal.

 

[Samus]

Yes non-existant cars have always been in GT but except a couple they've fitted in with the rest of the cars. That's the thing with the X1 is it's so disconnected from the rest of the game, it's like nothing else in the game by a long, long way. You have cars ranging from very slow building up gradually to the F1 cars then bam, you get the X1 lapping 50% faster than the F1 cars.

Like I said above I'm not doubting that the idea behind the X1 is solid and it could exist, the fact is nothing like it does exist. You can't deny it looks very silly to see that car lapping the way it does. I know you say that's because the GT5 physics and tyre engine aren't up to scratch and a real X1 might be much slower but that's irrelevent, we only have the GT5 X1 to deal with and drive and it's too fast.

 

[Exorcet]

Yes non-existant cars have always been in GT but except a couple they've fitted in with the rest of the cars. That's the thing with the X1 is it's so disconnected from the rest of the game, it's like nothing else in the game by a long, long way. You have cars ranging from very slow building up gradually to the F1 cars then bam, you get the X1 lapping 50% faster than the F1 cars.

That's what happens when you have a 1500 hp ground effect fan car. It's not that it doesn't fit it, it's that when you only want to look at existing cars for reference instead the physics you get a skewed sense of what's possible or not. It's a lot like 99% of airliners and the Concorde. Or every jet flying machine ever vs the X-43, except the X-43 is more like 100% faster than second place.

Even if the X1 was just the FGT with a fan, it would stomp every other car in the game. Out of curiosity, what would be your cutoff for a believable unlimited car?

You can't deny it looks very silly to see that car lapping the way it does.

It only looks silly when it's ignoring track terrain or over-driving its tires. The description says 8 g cornering, which is almost twice as fast as F1. All it means is that the car makes roughly twice as much downforce as F1 cars.

It's a big leap over F1, but not one that can be blasted as impossible right off the bat.

I know you say that's because the GT5 physics and tyre engine aren't up to scratch and a real X1 might be much slower but that's irrelevent, we only have the GT5 X1 to deal with and drive and it's too fast.

But GT5's flaws are relevant. Especially if we're considering the possibility of having the car for GT6, because presumably GT6 could correct the flaws. Your argument seemed to revolve around whether the car was realistic or not, but its GT5 counterpart doesn't have any impact on that. I think that you could say that the X1 for whatever exaggerates GT5's errors vs the real world (which wouldn't matter for GT6 unless PD announced they would use the same physics engine) but I think that would be unfair. All the cars have generic tire grip and magically low levels of drag. The X1 might appear to stand out because 50% error at 2 mph gives you 3 mph, but 50% error at 200 mph gives you 300 mph. People have an easier time spotting the difference than they do the percentage.

 

[Samus]

Again, i'm not denying that the X1 would be possible or that the idea of an unlimited car is wrong. I just don't think there is a place for such a car in a game like GT, or at least not a GT with physics and tyres as they are. I don't see GT6 advancing so far that the X1 will shred tyres and wear them out after a few corners as it would do in reality. The counter to that would be develop some tyres of the future but then you're back to virtual-reality which I don't think is right in a GT game.

I honestly think for most people the problem is believing that what the X1 does is possible because it doesn't exist. If Red Bull made one tomorrow and ran it for a demonstration people may become more accepting of it.

 

[1241Penguin]

Nether does a tuned veyron but we can do it in game, it's a game, let it go.

No, but at least it's based on something that exists in real life. Am I that hard to understand?

A Mazda RX-7 TC is based on an RX-7, which exists in real life.

An FGT is based on an old F1 car, which exists in real life.

An X1 is not based on any single car that currently exists.

Also, on your last point, it's interesting that you brought up "it's a game, let it go." I always thought a game was to have fun? So having to set up filters for Racing Softs equipped X1s every single time I play online is, not, fun.

Actually, I've quit racing online for quite some time now, aside for organized competitions. All thanks to those who insist on equipping all of their cars with RS tires.

Did you complain about the Nike one in GT4?

I don't recall driving it, so no.

 

[analog]

An FGT is based on an old F1 car, which exists in real life.

No it isn't actually, just as much a fantasy car as the X1 is (by the way, isn't this thread supposed to argue the pro's and cons of the Veyron?).

 

[Youngun]

No, but at least it's based on something that exists in real life. Am I that hard to understand?

A Mazda RX-7 TC is based on an RX-7, which exists in real life.

An FGT is based on an old F1 car, which exists in real life.

An X1 is not based on any single car that currently exists.

Also, on your last point, it's interesting that you brought up "it's a game, let it go." I always thought a game was to have fun? So having to set up filters for Racing Softs equipped X1s every single time I play online is, not, fun.

Actually, I've quit racing online for quite some time now, aside for organized competitions. All thanks to those who insist on equipping all of their cars with RS tires.

I don't recall driving it, so no.

I like driving the X1, it's a challenge and I'm getting better, and X1 race would never work as not many people drive them properly.
Closest thing to the X1 as said is the Caparo T1. Just more advanced with aerodynamics and more power. Racing soft aren't road legal but any car can have them in track which is where we are. But yeh, RS are expensive to add to every car just to make a level playing field. Pp/hp restrictions can help to keep not only x1 but others too

Btw, the rx7 TC is closer to a re amimeya rx7 as seen a few at shows similar

 

[Tornado]

The Caparo T1 is nothing like the X1 outside of looking similar. The difference in performance between the two would be exponential.

 

[1241Penguin]

Think of it this way, if Live For Speed, which, as we know, contains only fictional cars, has only the Red Bull X1 in the game, who would buy it? Not that many people.

On the other hand, even though it has only fictional cars, people still buy the game, because those cars are closer to what we get to drive IRL.

 

[Youngun]

The Caparo T1 is nothing like the X1.

How? Looks similar to me. Created by ex-mclaren engineers. With high downforce (5 year old tech too) 0-62 in 2.5, top speed of 205mph

Looks like

To me

I would call it the next step. Different of inside yes but basic elements are there

 

[Tornado]

So the massive fan producing the active downforce which is pretty central to the X1's design is just... hidden on the Caparo?

 

[Youngun]

So the massive fan producing the active downforce which is pretty central to the X1's design is just... hidden on the Caparo?

Never said it was on it but produces downforce on its own anyway. T1 then X1, evolution. It's F1 tech for the road. It's SIMILAR not THE SAME I said. The post said nothing like it, wen clearly it is like it, a 5 year old cousin that does a 10second 100 meters but the X1 is usain bolt (the next level)

 

[Exorcet]

Also, on your last point, it's interesting that you brought up "it's a game, let it go." I always thought a game was to have fun? So having to set up filters for Racing Softs equipped X1s every single time I play online is, not, fun.

This is one of the most ridiculous things said in this thread. The world is not supposed to bow to you. You might not like putting up filters every time you make a room, but you're going to have to deal with it.

The game has to appeal to more than one set of likes and dislikes. I'm sure that you wouldn't like it if all but RS tires were removed just because the RS crowd doesn't like those other, slow tires.

The Caparo T1 is nothing like the X1 outside of looking similar. The difference in performance between the two would be exponential.

This is pretty much dead on. F1 cars are more similar to the X1 than the Caparo except for the inclusion of lights.

Think of it this way, if Live For Speed, which, as we know, contains only fictional cars, has only the Red Bull X1 in the game, who would buy it? Not that many people.

On the other hand, even though it has only fictional cars, people still buy the game, because those cars are closer to what we get to drive IRL.

This is ridiculous. There is no supporting evidence for this at all. It's also ridiculous because you're ignoring the fact that you would reduce the car count to 1 instead of more than one. And then, it probably assumes that the LFS X1 would drive like the GT5 one.

How about a realistic comparison. Would there be less copies of LFS if the X1 was added to the already existing car list? Almost certainly no.

Actually people might pay for it.

 

[1241Penguin]

This is one of the most ridiculous things said in this thread. The world is not supposed to bow to you. You might not like putting up filters every time you make a room, but you're going to have to deal with it.

Uhh, no. The fact is that 10 year olds like to go around lobbies running around in X1s. Why add something that most people won't like? Granted, not everyone is like them, but it does become a problem.

The game has to appeal to more than one set of likes and dislikes. I'm sure that you wouldn't like it if all but RS tires were removed just because the RS crowd doesn't like those other, slow tires.

I'd argue that RS tires have too much grip, but then you'd just say that it's very possible to create such tires in real life. Even though it hasn't been done before?

This is ridiculous. There is no supporting evidence for this at all. It's also ridiculous because you're ignoring the fact that you would reduce the car count to 1 instead of more than one. And then, it probably assumes that the LFS X1 would drive like the GT5 one.

How about a realistic comparison. Would there be less copies of LFS if the X1 was added to the already existing car list? Almost certainly no.

Actually people might pay for it.

How about this. What if GT now had only cars from 100 years in the future. Would people still buy it? Possibly, but not as much.

You're still ignoring the fact that the X1 is not based on any single car in real life.

 

[Youngun]

How about this. What if GT now had only cars from 100 years in the future. Would people still buy it? Possibly, but not as much.

You mean, Wipeout HD? Lol

This is pretty much dead on. F1 cars are more similar to the X1 than the Caparo except for the inclusion of lights.

And your say the Caparo isn't like an f1 car. Designed by F1 engineers, with basic F1 trates... Almost like a triangle T1 like F1, X1 like T1, X1 like F1.

 

[1241Penguin]

Does Wipeout claim to be a simulator? No.

 

[Tornado]

The post said nothing like it, wen clearly it is like it

The post was fixed for clarification, but no. It is still nothing like it. The T1 is a car designed to be as similar to an F1 car as is possible and still be legal to drive on the road, with tradeoffs and sacrifices having to be made in order to accomplish both goals. The next step in evolution from that would be an actual F1 car, which will inherently have capabilities far exceeding those of any road car no matter how extreme because it doesn't have to be a road car.

The X1, on the other hand, is far and away above even that, so the Caparo T1's existence doesn't mean anything even if it does look somewhat similar.

 

[Youngun]

Does Wipeout claim to be a simulator? No.

It was a joke, cheer the **** up

The post was fixed for clarification, but no. It is still nothing like it. The T1 is a car designed to be as similar to an F1 car as is possible and still be legal to drive on the road, with tradeoffs and sacrifices having to be made in order to accomplish both goals. The next step in evolution from that would be an actual F1 car, which will have capabilities far exceeding those of any road car no matter how extreme because it doesn't have to be a road car. The X1, on the other hand, is far and away above that, so the Caparo T1's existence doesn't mean anything even if it does look somewhat similar.

And yes I know that, but it's the basics that are there. I wouldn't drive the T1 on road, hard, squashed, low, load, fast, and need speed for downforce to drive round a corner. Just read reviews and top gear. As close as real life can get to x1 any, may not be a copy but a few more advancement and it could be closer. 1000hp per tonne not close to x1 but not close to anything other than an f1 either. X1 uses best parts of the best racers in a Caparo design

 

[Exorcet]

Uhh, no. The fact is that 10 year olds like to go around lobbies running around in X1s. Why add something that most people won't like? Granted, not everyone is like them, but it does become a problem.

It's a non problem because you can filter rooms. It's the point of filtering rooms. If GT was made to only sell one copy to you, you would have a point, but that is not the case.

Why not remove online? That way "10 year olds" can't bother anyone. The X1 has nothing to do with them because they will ram you with anything. So the solution you're advocating is getting rid of online, or maybe keep online and remove all the cars?

I'd argue that RS tires have too much grip, but then you'd just say that it's very possible to create such tires in real life. Even though it hasn't been done before?

It's hard to respond to this, you're just so far off. I don't know how to explain things better.

How about this. What if GT now had only cars from 100 years in the future. Would people still buy it? Possibly, but not as much.

Where is your evidence. I'm pretty sure than games that do have cars from 100 years (or 1000 years) in the future do sell. Not that is has anything do with the X1 that uses 2010 technology.

You basically shot yourself in the foot by bringing up LFS.

You're still ignoring the fact that the X1 is not based on any single car in real life.[/QUOTE]
I listed the cars that it's based on already. If you're going to defend the FGT, you're going to have to accept the X1.

And your say the Caparo isn't like an f1 car. Designed by F1 engineers, with basic F1 trates... Almost like a triangle T1 like F1, X1 like T1, X1 like F1.

No, it's very F1 like, but it's still a road car. The details of design go much deeper than the exterior. Or else these three planes would be the same, even though they couldn't be more different:

 

[1241Penguin]

It's a non problem because you can filter rooms. It's the point of filtering rooms. If GT was made to only sell one copy to you, you would have a point, but that is not the case.

Just me? What about the majority of others who have to either write "No X1!" in their room titles or need to kick people out for being stupid with them.

Why not remove online? That way "10 year olds" can't bother anyone. The X1 has nothing to do with them because they will ram you with anything. So the solution you're advocating is getting rid of online, or maybe keep online and remove all the cars?

Sure, why not. And in the meantime add some sort of math quiz that only kids older than 11 can pass.

Where is your evidence. I'm pretty sure than games that do have cars from 100 years (or 1000 years) in the future do sell. Not that is has anything do with the X1 that uses 2010 technology.

No, a GT game; not just any game. Or perhaps a game that has established itself as a simulator for cars of the present.

I listed the cars that it's based on already. If you're going to defend the FGT, you're going to have to accept the X1.

Either I need a better English teacher or you're just not understanding what I'm saying.

 

[Youngun]

No, it's very F1 like, but it's still a road car. The details of design go much deeper than the exterior. Or else these three planes would be the same, even though they couldn't be more different:

That looks like 3 country's designing planes like each other, either that or designed for different missions GA, GG, AA etc

 

[Exorcet]

Just me? What about the majority of others who have to either write "No X1!" in their room titles or need to kick people out for being stupid with them.

They have filters.

What about the others who want to drive the X1?

No, a GT game; not just any game.

OK, but that doesn't mean that cars from 100 years after the X1 are relevant here.

Either I need a better English teacher or you're just not understanding what I'm saying.

The FGT looking like some particular car doesn't make it more legitimate than the X1, it also doesn't make it based on that car. As a matter of fact, the FGT is the original X1 in that is was made to simulate a car not bound by F1 rules. It's as based on a single car as the X1 is.

That looks like 3 country's designing planes like each other, either that or designed for different missions GA, GG, AA etc

First two are from the US, and they even both B-1's. The third is a Soviet Tu-160. All three are strategic bombers and the external aerodynamics are actually the same for the first two. But the first plane is still twice as fast as the second one. They even have the same engines.

 

[Tornado]

And yes I know that, but it's the basics that are there. As close as real life can get to x1 any, may not be a copy but a few more advancement and it could be closer.

There are no "basics." You're not getting the issue here.

The X1 was designed to be the (theoretical) best of the absolute possible best in race car technology circa-2010, free of the limits imposed by Formula 1 regulations. The T1 was designed to take somewhat older Formula 1 technology and dull it down as little as possible in a road car adaptation. The end result is two cars that look similar to each other, but not for the same reason.
The intention wasn't the same, the design scope wasn't the same and the performance wouldn't be near the same. Just because the T1 looks somewhat like the X1 doesn't mean that it is the closest we can get in real life to the X1 (because that role is filled by actual F1 cars). Ergo, the existence of the T1 in real life doesn't mean anything for the feasibility of the X1 in real life.

 

[1241Penguin]

They have filters.

What about the others who want to drive the X1?

They can have their own fun smashing into each other on SSR7.

Sure, keep the X1, but only if skill is required to achieve it.

OK, but that doesn't mean that cars from 100 years after the X1 are relevant here.

So what would make the X1 any more revelvant?

The FGT looking like some particular car doesn't make it more legitimate than the X1, it also doesn't make it based on that car. As a matter of fact, the FGT is the original X1 in that is was made to simulate a car not bound by F1 rules. It's as based on a single car as the X1 is.

You say that the X1 is based on the several cars that you listed earlier. Simple question: has a car with the traits of all those cars been done IRL?