Sir Jimmy Savile Dead
- Thread starter dhandeh
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Who'd have ever imagined that he wasn't a dirty old man?
Unfortunately, imagination and action were 2 very different things in this case i.e.
There seems to be plenty of people who not only "imagined" this, but acually new about this too, but this society of "don't rock the boat" we live in meant many of those people didn't come forward, or those that did, were swept under the carpet.
Child abuse is bad enough - but those people who "swept this under the carpet" because they didn't want to "rock the boat" - they're even worse..
They had a chance to stop this man from ruining more lives, but they turned their backs.
They are just as much vile scum as the man himself.
Ok, he hasn't been "convicted yet", OK - it was just 2 televison shows (Panorama and the ITV one), but so many witnesess from differetn parts of Saville's life, over such a long time?? The quotes from Saville himself about Gary Glitter and what he did as a porter in hospital to a dead woman's body - pfffft..
There's no smoke without fire - with Saville, it's an inferno...
He's no longer with us, but any of the people who swept this under the carpet who are still alive, they've got to be dealt with...
Except, everyone knows UK justice is a joke, no doubt one or two scapegoats will be found to take the brunt of it, and many others who were probably more responsible, will walk away 'free'.
The fact that there's involement of the higher social classes means any investigation will never be thorough enough - only made to look so..
Reminds me of he scandal about child abuse within the church, how that went on for decades too....
This is just the tip of the iceberg no doubt..
Makes me ashamed to be human.... So much for "civilised" society, what a joke..
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- JacksHereR
The Jimmy Savile scandal deserves a thread of it's own, but won't exist on GT Planet. He had sway with Governments abroad and had links to supplying UK MPs with young boys. Allegations included the previous PM Ted Heath.
That leads me to realise the bizar hypocracy of the UKs foreign policy.
Doing some searches on the people Jimmy hung with (slang use of hung around with) and the links come full circle.
That leads me to realise the bizar hypocracy of the UKs foreign policy.
Doing some searches on the people Jimmy hung with (slang use of hung around with) and the links come full circle.
- 29,879
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Source?
It is true that he was a personal guest of Thatcher's at the Chequers Christmas party. For 11 consecutive years.
Small wonder he got away with it all.
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Discussed? A few posts in a general thread, took me ages to find them, thread has long since progressed now anyway...
All things considered about "Saville", especially including the people involved, how long it went on for and the reprocussions - how can that not be worthy of it's own thread?
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Why not?
You haven't even tried. You made a post in this thread and then, after it was deleted for sound reasons, made another which was deleted for the same reasons. So what makes you think a thread about Jimmy Savile's conduct won't exist on GTP to the point where you state it as fact?
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So will this thread stay then Famine?
I know there's rules on GTP about grave-digging old threads, but given what's happened in real life about Jimmy Saville, is that enough for this thread to continue i.e. So much has come to light since his death, compared to what was known generally (those who didn't know him personally) about him whilst he was alive?
dhandeh
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I would say what has come out (or more to the point, what hasn't come out) recently is more than enough reason to discuss it.
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- Bratvegas
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I was only redirecting you to a few posts which have already touched upon the subject. Make of them what you want.
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- JacksHereR
This goes a lot further than touching a [insert british] subject
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/bbcs-jimmy-savile-and-child-abuse-cover.html
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/bbcs-jimmy-savile-and-child-abuse-cover.html
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One thing that annoys me;
The newspapers knew of these stories and the cover ups for all the years, but chose to do nothing until now, where they merely slate the BBC. Rightly, perhaps, but they themselves are not exonerated of blame. They could have printed a story, one that most certainly would have been in the public interest, but chose not to.
The newspapers knew of these stories and the cover ups for all the years, but chose to do nothing until now, where they merely slate the BBC. Rightly, perhaps, but they themselves are not exonerated of blame. They could have printed a story, one that most certainly would have been in the public interest, but chose not to.
Scaff
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At present it allegedly goes a lot further, with at the present time the word allegedly being an important factor in that regard.
Everyone in this thread needs to keep in mind that opinion and fact are not one and the same and the former should not be presented as the latter.
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I agree
Just think - all what the Murdochs / or their staff did at NOTW for all those years - and they missed this????
Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it...
True - 'an' or a 'few' allegation(s) maybe, but so many, from so many different people in his life, for so long..??
Technically, yes, they are still 'allegations', but so many people over 30+ years saying the same thing about the same guy. These are all kinds of people too, from work and business colleagues to reporters who accompanied him on his charity events, it's not one 'type' of person, but quite a variety of different people.
Some of the evidence is not allegations though, look what Saville said about Paul Gadd and what Saville wrote in his autobiography about when he was a Porter and the time with the dead woman he was transferring. They're Saville's own words and most would view them as being not just 'out of place' but a little disturbing.
I always complain that today's police (especially Traffic cops) have you 'guilty' until you prove yourself 'innocent', but it's just not possible that all the allegations about Saville are made up, it's overwhelming what is happening.
The laywer or policeman they showed some of the allegations to (on the ITV documentary) summed it up - when so many different people who don't know, and never knew, each other can provide information which a 3rd party can see similarities in, then normally tihs is a strong indicator that 'it' happened...
But I guess there's legal implications of saying things, even on the 'net on private forums, so I understnad the need to police what is being said..
Scaff
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It certainly indicates a pattern and one that I happen to think will pan out to be true, however that doesn't yet make it fact.
And what can be show to be fact can be discussed as fact.
And because a NIP breaks fundamental of justice doesn't mean we should allow it to set a precedent.
Sorry but it is possible. Its unlikely and improbable that they are all made up, but its still possible (a very small possibility yes but until all the facts are in in remains one of the possible outcomes).
Yet at present they still remain allegations and unless we are happy to thrown out all of due process they have to be treated as any other allegation, i.e. they will have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not just that but no matter how obvious something is due process must be followed or the implications for 'mob justice' in other cases rear an ugly head. Trial by media is not the way to go at all.
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It is highly unlikely it will ever be 'proved beyond reasonable doubt' as Jimmy Saville cannot be brought to trial. It is possible to still get this but only if someone else gets brought before a jury. If not it will never be 'proved beyond reasonable doubt'.
The recent Lance Armstrong case has highlighted that sometimes the shear number of witness statements can make the guilty case without the burden of 'proof'.
The recent Lance Armstrong case has highlighted that sometimes the shear number of witness statements can make the guilty case without the burden of 'proof'.
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Which goes against the very principle of innocent until proven guilty. I get what you mean, but just because the odds are stacked heavily against you, doesn't necessarily mean that it's over.
But yeah, Savile is dead which further annoys me that the newspapers either couldn't or wouldn't publish a story. You can't prosecute the dead, and the dead can't sue.
Scaff
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Unlikely but not impossible and if this does go as wide and as high as has been alleged then its going to need to hit that standard.
Personally I hope it is investigation as fully as possible, not just to ensure that all involved are found and punished as appropriate, but to also vindicate the victims who have been ignored and marginalized over the decades (and without due process that can never been done).
Witness statements that can be supported by other evidence:
Source - http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...terprise docs/armstrong-reasoned-decision.pdf
Not to mention the rather important fact that the Lance Armstrong investigation is not a criminal case.
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None of that contradicts what I have said about reaching the verdict of Jimmy Saville being guilty without ever having gone to a court.
I also made it clear that he 'could' still be proven guilty if someone close to him ends up in the dock.
As i said. This is not my opinion. This is just what is possible, and indeed probable.
The enquiry won't be a criminal case either.
Edit: Not doubting you, but I am having a hard time finding evidence in that link that isn't just witess statements. Been following this quite a bit recently so am interestd. You don't know where I should be looking do you?
I also made it clear that he 'could' still be proven guilty if someone close to him ends up in the dock.
As i said. This is not my opinion. This is just what is possible, and indeed probable.
The enquiry won't be a criminal case either.
Edit: Not doubting you, but I am having a hard time finding evidence in that link that isn't just witess statements. Been following this quite a bit recently so am interestd. You don't know where I should be looking do you?
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Scaff
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I don't believe I said it does contradict what you said, it does however clarify it.
The BBC enquiry isn't the only thing going on and I think you will find that the one being run by the Metropolitan Police is a criminal investigation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/19/jimmy-savile-met-criminal-investigation
The USADA have not published them as of yet, for two main reasons:
- Its not a criminal case so they don't need to
- Armstrong has not appealed against any of the charges
Now of course they could just be making it up, but that's would be rather stupid to say the least (given that my quote above is from the USADA document)
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- Heathenpride
Pedophiles, rapists and those that assist in covering up their crimes must be dealt with in the harshest possible manner and for that I support capital punishment.
We had a case here in Aus recently where an Irish girl (Jill Meagher) was dragged into an alley at 4am and raped and killed, her killer returned at a later point and took her body around 50km away and buried her in a shallow grave... He had 16 previous convictions for rape but it was decided he was no longer a threat.
It is the most abhorrent crime and the victims live with the scars forever and never truly heal and can indeed, in the case of child abuse, grow to be abusers themselves.
Jimmy Saville was not a convicted child abuser so passing judgement is inappropriate but if it is indeed true that he was then nothing short of an agonising death is deserved.
But as I said, a conviction must be made and, as Scaff said, due process is paramount.
Once that is done I say let them dance the hempen jig.
We had a case here in Aus recently where an Irish girl (Jill Meagher) was dragged into an alley at 4am and raped and killed, her killer returned at a later point and took her body around 50km away and buried her in a shallow grave... He had 16 previous convictions for rape but it was decided he was no longer a threat.
It is the most abhorrent crime and the victims live with the scars forever and never truly heal and can indeed, in the case of child abuse, grow to be abusers themselves.
Jimmy Saville was not a convicted child abuser so passing judgement is inappropriate but if it is indeed true that he was then nothing short of an agonising death is deserved.
But as I said, a conviction must be made and, as Scaff said, due process is paramount.
Once that is done I say let them dance the hempen jig.
Scaff
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That may well be the case (its not for the Police to make that decision but the CPS), you did however imply this was not a criminal matter (as per Lance Armstrong) when it clearly is.
The Metropolitan Police are building a criminal case (which is the point of a criminal investigation), if they feel that case is strong enough the will present it to the CPS who will decide if it can be proceeded with (as per due process in the UK)
You stated that the Lance Armstrong case was based only on witness statements, the document produced by the USADA says they have other evidence to support the witness statements. The reason for the link is quite simple, I always cite my sources (in this case for the quote). I didn't say it linked to the additional evidence, I said it was the source for the quote I provided.
Please remember I'm not making the claim for additional evidence, the USADA are, which is why I quoted them and provided a link to the place they made the claim. If you dislike the manner in which they have done this you would have to take that up with the USADA.
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