Smarter AI

[irnbrutwinturbo]

The punt was a minor accidental nudge. Let's say he didn't nudge him, and out-braked him to perfection, right on his tail. He had every right to make a move coming out of that corner. This was 100% due to unsportsman driving by the Porsche.

To be fair on the the Porsche, the nudge looked intentional, a nudge like that could cause a missed gear and therefore slowed down the exit for the Porsche.
The vetta also used the nudge to slow down, without the nudge he may have actually gone far too wide by break far too late.
The Vette clearly demonstrated agression by the cheat overtake earlier in the race.
The Vette get what was coming to him by cheating.
Sportmanship by the Vetta was also questionable by blinding the Porsche, im not familiar with this particular race but surely blinding the car in front of you is wrong?

If the Vette had made the perfect pass then yes it was a bad move by the Porsche, but i would wonder, why in all the previous laps did the Vette not pass in the same place without nudging? Is it not because out of that corner the vette had now real advantage over the Porsche?

 

[TokyoDrift]

Intentional or not, the Porshce was not disadvantaged coming out of that corner relative to the Vette - both will have lost speed and stability as a result. The Vette still managed to get his car alongside the Porsche before he was forced into the wall.

I agree, the Vette was wreckless throughout a lot of the race, but there is no excuse for forcing a car into the wall like that. It's not like the Porsche blocked the line as the Vette made his move.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

Intentional or not, the Porshce was not disadvantaged coming out of that corner relative to the Vette - both will have lost speed and stability as a result. The Vette still managed to get his car alongside the Porsche before he was forced into the wall.

I agree, the Vette was wreckless throughout a lot of the race, but there is no excuse for forcing a car into the wall like that. It's not like the Porsche blocked the line as the Vette made his move.

I disagree, the Porsche clearly had to compensate with the oversteer caused by the nudge. That understeer slowed the Porsche's exit out of the corner, whilst the Vette just floored it.

 

[ST-2]

The punt was a minor accidental nudge. Let's say he didn't nudge him, and out-braked him to perfection, right on his tail. He had every right to make a move coming out of that corner. This was 100% due to unsportsman driving by the Porsche.

I agree that if the Vette had braked upto his rear bumper and then pulled out to the finish line, he should've one. But the Vette hit the Porsche, this pushed the Porsche wide through the final turn allowing the Vette to get down the inside. Not racing imo.

 

[Sureboss]

Intelligent AI (heh) is one of the most, if not the most, difficult thing to get right in computer games. When you get a game with good AI, appreciate it, because they've worked damn hard to get it that good.

 

[TokyoDrift]

I agree that if the Vette had braked upto his rear bumper and then pulled out to the finish line, he should've one. But the Vette hit the Porsche, this pushed the Porsche wide through the final turn allowing the Vette to get down the inside. Not racing imo.

Accidents happen - that's racing. Forcing people into the wall - that's not. It's as simple as that.

 

[Imari]

I agree that if the Vette had braked upto his rear bumper and then pulled out to the finish line, he should've one. But the Vette hit the Porsche, this pushed the Porsche wide through the final turn allowing the Vette to get down the inside. Not racing imo.

Absolutely, but the correct thing for the Porsche driver to do is finish the race and then go down pit lane and punch the guy in the face. Not try to run him into a barrier.

There's a world of difference between a big nudge like the Vette gave and running someone into the wall. The first is dumb and unsportsmanlike. The second has major financial and if you're unlucky, physical, costs. To make a terrible analogy, it's the difference between getting in a fist fight and a knife fight. The first is stupid but it happens, the second is just dangerous.

 

[RedSuinit]

Intentional or not, the Porshce was not disadvantaged coming out of that corner relative to the Vette - both will have lost speed and stability as a result. The Vette still managed to get his car alongside the Porsche before he was forced into the wall.

I agree, the Vette was wreckless throughout a lot of the race, but there is no excuse for forcing a car into the wall like that. It's not like the Porsche blocked the line as the Vette made his move.

Im sorry, but NOT INTENTIONAL?!?!?! Did you even see what happened?! He was more than a CAR LENGTH behind this guy, and used him as a brake assistant! Even the commentators were saying that he was too far back to make a clean move to pass, and his only option was to divebomb into his back end! It was bloody intentional, and downright dirty, the Porsche had every right to drive him to the wall.

Accidents happen - that's racing. Forcing people into the wall - that's not. It's as simple as that.

Then I don't EVER want to hear you complain about someone punting you. In GT5P or GT5, EVER. We'll see if your opinion is that way when it's YOU getting used as a brake assist.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Why are people saying that the nudge was dumb, unsportsmanlike, and done on purpose? Where is the evidence? Answer = there is none, just your observation and opinion. It was a minor nudge, just overcooked the braking zone. Big deal, it happens.

What is irrefutable, is the fact that the Vette made his move, got the nose of his car alongside the Porsche, and then he got forced into the wall. THAT is dumb, unsportsmanlike, and done on purpose, quite evidently. Like I said before, even though the Vette was getting rammed against the wall he still managed to get past the Porsche before losing the back end and spinning out.

 

[RedSuinit]

Why are people saying that the nudge was dumb, unsportsmanlike, and done on purpose? Where is the evidence? Answer = there is none, just your observation and opinion. It was a minor nudge, just overcooked the braking zone. Big deal, it happens.

What is irrefutable, is the fact that the Vette made his move, got the nose of his car alongside the Porsche, and then he got forced into the wall. THAT is dumb, unsportsmanlike, and done on purpose, quite evidently. Like I said before, even though the Vette was getting rammed against the wall he still managed to get past the Porsche before losing the back end and spinning out.

HE DIVEBOMBED IT. It was intentional, and underhanded. He NEVER would've held that line had the Porsche not been there, and I would bet money that the driver of that Vette knows it... Watch the video again and listen to the commentators! They all comment on how there was NO WAY he could make a clean pass. He INTENTIONALLY tried to loosed him up, and NO the Vette would NOT lose much time by cutting short his brake zone by hitting the Porsche and using him as a brake assist. The Vette NEVER would've stood a chance if he hadn't purposefully used the Posche to slow down. The Porsche lost a LOT of momentum because of that. And you know what, when the Vette lost control it was after he hit the wall. There was still plenty of room for him, but he lost his nerve, hit the wall, and lost control. The Porsche wasn't even touching him when he hit the wall.

 

[ST-2]

Absolutely, but the correct thing for the Porsche driver to do is finish the race and then go down pit lane and punch the guy in the face. Not try to run him into a barrier.

There's a world of difference between a big nudge like the Vette gave and running someone into the wall. The first is dumb and unsportsmanlike. The second has major financial and if you're unlucky, physical, costs. To make a terrible analogy, it's the difference between getting in a fist fight and a knife fight. The first is stupid but it happens, the second is just dangerous.

Humm, I see your point, but I still think the Porsche left the Vette just enough room. I don't think the Vette hit the wall, but the Porsche tabbed the rear of the Vette as it passed down the inside, hense why it spun to the outside of the track. Now, I don't know if that was because the Porsche hit him or becuase the Vette cut back accross too early. Ii'd need to see a different camera angle to make a determination.

Why are people saying that the nudge was dumb, unsportsmanlike, and done on purpose? Where is the evidence? Answer = there is none, just your observation and opinion. It was a minor nudge, just overcooked the braking zone. Big deal, it happens.

Becuase it wasn't just a nudge, it was a hit. The difference? One is small, the other is big. The Vette hit the Porsche, hard enough the make him run wide, if it was a nudge, the Porsche would have been able to keep the line forcing the Vette to try and overtake on the right hand side. It was done on purpose aswell, the Vette was way too far back to make it stick and he would've known from braking that far back that he was going to hit the Porsche, so the Vette could've avoided the hit to start with. I agree the Porsche should not have forced him into the wall (if thats what happened because I'm still not sure he hit the wall), but he shouldn't have tryed to force his way past.

You don't see Lewis Hamilton or Jenson Button raming Kimi or Vettel do you? No, because they would end up DNF with penalties for the next race. Plus, they are professional racing drivers and as such, show respect for their fellow drivers. I agree, accidents happen, they do in F1... I.e. Trulli on Sutil in the Brazilian GP last weekend.

 

[TokyoDrift]

HE DIVEBOMBED IT. It was intentional, and underhanded. He NEVER would've held that line had the Porsche not been there, and I would bet money that the driver of that Vette knows it... Watch the video again and listen to the commentators! They all comment on how there was NO WAY he could make a clean pass. He INTENTIONALLY tried to loosed him up, and NO the Vette would NOT lose much time by cutting short his brake zone by hitting the Porsche and using him as a brake assist. The Vette NEVER would've stood a chance if he hadn't purposefully used the Posche to slow down. The Porsche lost a LOT of momentum because of that. And you know what, when the Vette lost control it was after he hit the wall. There was still plenty of room for him, but he lost his nerve, hit the wall, and lost control. The Porsche wasn't even touching him when he hit the wall.

I disagree, but whatever, the Porsche driver had absolutely no right forcing the Vette into the wall like that. No **** the Vette lost control after he hit the wall - he hit the wall because he was forced into the wall by the Porsche. No contact is necessary between the two case - at those speeds, it doesn't take much.

 

[Leonidae]

Porsche driver had the line despite the dirty tricks of the vette. vette tried to force his way past multiple times through cheating, nudging, tapping and finally RAMMING. what a fortune that rear-engined Porsches don't lose traction too easily, unlike FR's like vette. Magnussen had it coming, and he got what he deserved... lost the race and wrecked his car because of his sheer arrogance and blatant ignorance of pure driving and safety rules

 

[Spec M]

I disagree, but whatever, the Porsche driver had absolutely no right forcing the Vette into the wall like that. No **** the Vette lost control after he hit the wall - he hit the wall because he was forced into the wall by the Porsche. No contact is necessary between the two case - at those speeds, it doesn't take much.

The driver of the Vette could have avoided the entire accident by letting up the throttle or tapping the brake while he was by the wall. He was being too ambitious and too aggressive the entire battle. He was bound to wipe his self out or someone else. Not only did he cut the course, but used the pit exit to pass! The entire seen could have been avoided if it were not for the stupid move he made on the last turn. Bergmeister is apparently the better driver, winning the race in an orderly fashion, and keeping a calm composure and staying on his line no matter what the monkey around him was doing.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

HEllllllooooooo this is about AI peeps, not about a race on the tv.

 

[Imari]

Humm, I see your point, but I still think the Porsche left the Vette just enough room. I don't think the Vette hit the wall, but the Porsche tabbed the rear of the Vette as it passed down the inside, hense why it spun to the outside of the track. Now, I don't know if that was because the Porsche hit him or becuase the Vette cut back accross too early. Ii'd need to see a different camera angle to make a determination.

Yeah, the camera angle we got wasn't great for seeing who touched what. I suspect from the outcome that the Porsche driver saw the Vette come out of the corner fast and went for a quick and aggressive block, but the Vette was already alongside/ahead by a nose. Given that it was all done in the space of a few seconds, I suspect the Porsche driver had his mind stuck on trying to block and the Vette driver refused to yield. As you say, there's no wall contact required, the Porsche taps the back of the Vette and that's the result.

Ultimately, I guess it's not that surprising a result after a long and hardfought race. At that point I'd be prepared to go a long way to win too, and your mind works differently in the heat of battle. I'm not sure that either of the drivers was necessarily more at fault than the other, they were both trying as hard as they could to win and mistakes happen. The divebomb into the final corner *could* have resulted in a legit pass, and the Porsche *could* have made a legit block on the straight to the finish. Didn't happen like that, but damn if it's not still exciting racing.

I maintain I'd still love to be driving in a race that ended up being that close. If they made an AI that could stick with me like that I'd be happy as a pig in poop.

 

[SRinc.]

All this revenge talk, sounds like a Need for Speed game.

As if, NFS has lost it's touch since Underground 2, Pro Street warmed me up back to the title but I've yet to go back to NFS's titles after Most Wanted, Carbon and so on, like I used too. A smarter and more challenging (on a consistent basis) AI for GT is due and greatly needed .

 

[sejtur]

GT5P has it's errors in the AI but it's certainly improved over GT4. They will notice you are driving next or in front of them earlier.

For the comparing game, I played NFS and the AI cheats in that game. It's like they have other physics than you most of time. Also, their driving isn't fair, but the game promotes unfair driving so I guess it is on purpose.

 

[Rumface]

Wow! paskowitz, that was an amazing video. That'd be intense.

 

[RedSuinit]

I disagree, but whatever, the Porsche driver had absolutely no right forcing the Vette into the wall like that. No **** the Vette lost control after he hit the wall - he hit the wall because he was forced into the wall by the Porsche. No contact is necessary between the two case - at those speeds, it doesn't take much.

The Porsche pushed him next to the wall, but left PLENTY of room, the Vette lost his nerve, was too aggressive and then he hit the wall.

 

[Spec M]

HEllllllooooooo this is about AI peeps, not about a race on the tv.

Actually the video clip being discussed here heavily relates to the subject on hand, and the person who created this (Cletus669) thread doesn't have a problem with it so why should you?

 

[cletus 669]

Actually the video clip being discussed here heavily relates to the subject on hand, and the person who created this (Cletus669) thread doesn't have a problem with it so why should you?

That video is exactly the kind of "Dog fight" I want to see from AI, not just a mindless drone following the exact same line every damn lap.

 

[regnar]

Actually the video clip being discussed here heavily relates to the subject on hand, and the person who created this (Cletus669) thread doesn't have a problem with it so why should you?

The discussion went from talking about the AI, to a play by play of the race, and though it's interesting discussion, it has moved away from the thread topic.

 

[Spec M]

Yes I understand. The vid was intended to show show an example of how we would like AI to interact, but it seems the vid became a debate itself.

But on topic, if an AI vehicle were able to make a move like the Vette did around the GT while overlapping traffic, that would simply make my jaw drop.
Seeing that from the AI would be shocking becasue its so unpredicatable and unplanned.

 

[QuantumReaction]

about this whole Porsche vs vette thing:

Cant we all agree that they were both slightly at fault and only one of them was going to win?

 

[cletus 669]

But on topic, if an AI vehicle were able to make a move like the Vette did around the GT while overlapping traffic, that would simply make my jaw drop.
Seeing that from the AI would be shocking becasue its so unpredicatable and unplanned.

Seeing that in a race would be awesome! I only wish PD would try to get close to that kind of racing with thier AI.

 

[Leonidae]

irresponsible, reckless, danger-causing ignorance etc? well, all you need then is to record GT5P online game data and apply it as AI..

 

[Scoop2004]

Im not going to speculate, or make rumours of what PD are up to, im just going to get GT5 on release day and my first few tests of the game will be a thorough roasting of the AI,and damage systems. Im going to drive slowly along the racing line and if i get bumped once from the AI ill be royally miffed, the AI should race hard and clean..ish

 

[RedSuinit]

That video is exactly the kind of "Dog fight" I want to see from AI, not just a mindless drone following the exact same line every damn lap.

I agree, just without the slamming that happened on the last turn. Otherwise that was an AMAZING race.

 

[Dravonic]

If we got something like this...

... I think my head would explode.

That video is exactly the kind of "Dog fight" I want to see from AI, not just a mindless drone following the exact same line every damn lap.

If you want something like that you're looking at the wrong place. Online is what you're looking for