So, about that course creator.

[Thomas__633]

They will, but they didn't say when.

 

[Zlork]

I don't regret my purchase.

On its release, Gran Turismo 6 was as I hoped. And I trust PoDi for updates.

So far, they kept their promises and made us some surprises. Course maker, it's only a matter of time, I'm almost sure it will come out this year.

PoDi lengthened schedule to make us wait GT7 more easily. We can criticize but there is also good sides

 

[Tornado]

If you were buying all future updates and content as well, all DLC would be free then don't you think?

If they said it would be, then yes.

 

[Com Fox]

Even if it is released, I think it's too late for most players.

The problem with relasing promised content later on is that you have to make the current appealing to keep them interested. A lot of people have already dropped it and so when it comes. People might go on it for a bit but since they finished through the entire before, it is rather pointless.

 

[FoRiZon]

TL;DW

Too long

Didnt wait

 

[Tijee]

From what I hear here and there, there are still some people (a lot?) who are still not ready to switch to PCars because it would imply a consequent amount of money (PS4+wheel+PCars).

The track creator could be a game changer for those players, especially if the custom tracks can be used online. And according to rumors, GT7 will not be released until 2017 so there's still more than a year to enjoy new features.

 

[Com Fox]

I doubt it would be game changing. It would help GT but it is only a jump over a puddle. I love to create stuff but I gave up on it because when it will be released all I'll have with the custom tracks is driving alone. No epic racing (unless you do online but getting good online can be so hard), no sharing them.

 

[interpunct]

Bollocks. If the developer has a list of features and content that they promise to deliever after the game is released, it becomes part of your buying decision and part of the game. Without that list of additional features, GT6 would have essentially been just GT5.5, it was the new features that made the title exciting and interesting. Without the Course Maker and Community Features, I probably wouldn't have bought the game to begin with and waited until it hit the bargain bin.

Yes that's true, this is why I haven't said in any moment that not delivering on advertised stuff is right. But as we stand right now, in the official site the course maker it says that it's going to be available in a future update. That means that they could release GT7, 8 and 9 and if after that they decide to release it, it's still considered fair game since there was no time-frame set for this. Even if it would be a very, very s***** thing to do.

I don't think you understand how advertising works. If you say "Buy our product, it has so and so, some of it we will give you later", that is creating a selling point and you must provide what you have advertised. Otherwise, that is misleading advertisement.

Please feel free to link me to some legal explanation that shows if I am wrong on this.

I do understand how advertising works. Can you please tell me how I don't when my work is centred around marketing design everyday? I know the legality of these things. I've been working or marketing design for years now. So trust me when I tell you that I know how this works.

The text I bolded in your post is specifically what I'm referring to. "Later" is an indefinite amount of time. They didn't say next day, month, year, etc. Regarding the course maker it says "available at a later stage through an update." http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt6/

As we stand right now, the only thing that is going to happen if you were to take PD to court right now regarding misleading advertising (which is in fact, illegal of course) they can just wave the argument that they said a future update. So like I said in the previous quote, they can release 3 more games (and assuming the PS3 servers are still up) they deliver afterwards it's still fair game in the legal space.

The only way that they can get into trouble is if there is justifiable cause to prove that the feature can't be implemented or that they can't deliver on the promise they did before. If the servers were to go down right at that moment you have a justified court case in your hands which you can act upon on.

The thing about promises really is that they are in a sort of legal grey area. Because of how this system works it does allow for companies to do these types of things without any repercussions.

If they said it would be, then yes.

Well, can you link me to where they said that the course maker will be free?

It's safe to assume PD will give it away as a free update of course, that's what its been hinting at, but unless they explicitly stated and promised that it's going to come as a free update and said something along the lines of "future free update" instead of just "future update" they can just give it away as DLC behind a paywall.

 

[Whistle Snap]

Hmm just realised what may be a big issue when the course maker is finally released.

Remember when the new gt apex was realeased? It was an ios app only, with PD ignoring the fact that many dont have or use Apple products. I hope they implement alternative mobile os apps besides ios for the course maker tracking/plotting app.

They better not skimp on the supported formats, I want to be able to use Google, phone, Garmin, etc and export the data to feed into Course Maker with USB, if it's an online only upload via an app, then that will be ****. What's the format used with Datalogger?

 

[synon]

They will, but they didn't say when.

Yes, I could understand the complaints if Sony had actually given a time for the features to be added.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Later" is an indefinite amount of time. They didn't say next day, month, year, etc. Regarding the course maker it says "available at a later stage through an update." http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt6/

As we stand right now, the only thing that is going to happen if you were to take PD to court right now regarding misleading advertising (which is in fact, illegal of course) they can just wave the argument that they said a future update. So like I said in the previous quote, they can release 3 more games (and assuming the PS3 servers are still up) they deliver afterwards it's still fair game in the legal space.

The only way that they can get into trouble is if there is justifiable cause to prove that the feature can't be implemented or that they can't deliver on the promise they did before. If the servers were to go down right at that moment you have a justified court case in your hands which you can act upon on.

The thing about promises really is that they are in a sort of legal grey area. Because of how this system works it does allow for companies to do these types of things without any repercussions.

Thanks for your input, good to know of your experience and that you are aware of, as you say, the legal grey area this falls into. That part I've bolded though, I fail to see how this would not breach the "Reasonable Time" law. There isn't anywhere in the law (US or UK as far as I'm aware) that specifies any amount of time for different services, but they will take into consideration the particular service, industry and expected time in comparison to other similar services.

If PD releases GT7 before GT6's course maker, or it takes them them another couple of years anyhow, sounds to me you would have a possible claim with PD not delivering within a reasonable time. 2-3 years is expected for an entire game, not a single feature that was, as PD claimed, virtually ready for release 1.5 years ago. Them saying it could make release and if not will be included soon after didn't help, it sets up an expectation which is also quoted in the law. All seems a bit iffy to me. PD's idea of "soon" and most other people's idea of soon are no doubt very different lengths of time.

In considering whether there has been unreasonable delay in performance, a court may also consider other factors such as prior dealings between the parties, business routine or custom within the trade, and whether there were any objective manifestations of expectation expressed between the parties.

I don't have fantastic legal knowledge though and could well be barking up the wrong legal tree. When do you personally think "reasonable time" would become a genuine claim? If I were to be taking it to court, I would make comparisons to other games built entirely within the same time frame, including that of PD themselves (GT2 to GT3 and all of the prologue+concept demos they threw out in a short space of time).

Sorry if I'm waffling a load of old rubbish.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Even if it is released, I think it's too late for most players.

The problem with relasing promised content later on is that you have to make the current appealing to keep them interested. A lot of people have already dropped it and so when it comes. People might go on it for a bit but since they finished through the entire before, it is rather pointless.

Pretty much this. I already have plans to move on (to Xbox and Forza) after the Academy is over. Could really care less anymore what happens as far as GT is concerned, they've disappointed me far too many times now.

 

[SimTourist]

Outside of GTPlanet does anyone really give a crap anymore? I'd say the ps3 is incapable of running it, therefore it was put aside for GT7. Simple explanation.

 

[Famine]

I'd say the ps3 is incapable of running it, therefore it was put aside for GT7. Simple explanation.

But also wrong.

It's still slated for release for GT6 and as far as I'm aware there is every intent to make that happen with every effort being made to do so.

The value of "as far as I'm aware" in that sentence is actually "I'm aware".

 

[CodeRedR51]

I cant tell if you are just on the wind up or not. This is a product that people hava bought and many bought it just for the course make. Your definition of "soon" and "impatient" is an absolute joke. Ok you're not bothered. But its messed up that you try to make an arguement for it not being out yet and defining people as impatient because they are happy that 18 months later PD are still taking the mick out of us and showing a complete lack of respect to customers by not telling us what is going on.

Jut because you are happy to bend over and take it in the rear from PD dont assume the rest of us customers hold the same low level standards of a product they paid for. When i buy a product specifically for a certain feature that is the course maker then if its not there on release day it had better be there damn soon after release.

There is seriously something wrong when you're reading someone trying to convince you that 18 months is actually soon. When your mates say they'll be round soon do they come round 5 weeks later?

I'm not going to explain myself again. What you do, I really don't care about. I'm just saying people are getting all riled up like their life depends on this thing releasing. Here's an idea: play other games, go outside, do "life" things. Don't spend all your waking hours twiddling your thumbs wondering when it will show up. If you have moved on from it, then move on....

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I'm not going to explain myself again. What you do, I really don't care about. I'm just saying people are getting all riled up like their life depends on this thing releasing. Here's an idea: play other games, go outside, do "life" things. Don't spend all your waking hours twiddling your thumbs wondering when it will show up. If you have moved on from it, then move on....

Why don't you take some of your own advice and stop trying to tell everyone else what to do/what kind of opinion they should have/or how much patience they should have. 👍

 

[CodeRedR51]

Why don't you take some of your own advice and stop trying to tell everyone else what to do/what kind of opinion they should have/or how much patience they should have. 👍

I think some people in here can heed their own advice.

 

[SimTourist]

But also wrong.

It could be still on the way, but due to ps3 limitations it's gonna be extremely limited/cumbersome to use. Who exactly is gonna use it anyway? Who's got enough time/resources to walk around with a GPS transmitter and try to capture a road? Considering general purpose GPS devices are fairly inaccurate as well any output is gonna vaguely resemble what you're trying to capture. Or if this is just like GT5 with few sliders then I don't get the appeal, I've spent precisely 10 minutes in course maker in GT5 as I've figured it's super boring to drive these randomly generated tracks. Seems like a lot of resources were put into a feature that will be used by 2.5 people in the world actively. Just my take on it obviously.

 

[JKgo]

....Inspired by all those who say "PS3 too weak. Can't handle Course maker."

 

[Famine]

It could be still on the way, but due to ps3 limitations it's gonna be extremely limited/cumbersome to use.

[Citation needed]

Who exactly is gonna use it anyway? Who's got enough time/resources to walk around with a GPS transmitter and try to capture a road? Considering general purpose GPS devices are fairly inaccurate as well any output is gonna vaguely resemble what you're trying to capture.

If you're talking about the GPS Course Maker (as opposed to the Course Maker), anyone with a phone or a car that uses CANbus (which is anything made since about 2002) can use it. All it would need is to compare the GPS trace with mapping data and you have a route.

Or if this is just like GT5 with few sliders then I don't get the appeal, I've spent precisely 10 minutes in course maker in GT5 as I've figured it's super boring to drive these randomly generated tracks. Seems like a lot of resources were put into a feature that will be used by 2.5 people in the world actively. Just my take on it obviously.

It seems like you've put a lot of thought into reasons to hate it without any actual information on how it'll function. I have no idea how the core Course Maker will function - though I agree that the limited environments and functionality in GT5 didn't provide too much entertainment (something I spoke to Kazunori about, comparing GT5's Course 'Creator' function with ModNationRacers' more finely tuned tool). I have a much better idea of how the GPS Course Maker will work and it seems excellent.


Nonetheless, I can say with certainty that every effort is going into making Course Maker appear in GT6 before too much longer. With 11 of the 12 "future update" features already with us, the case for pessimism over its inclusion is in itself already slim.

 

[Thomas__633]

humans are a pessimistic species.

 

[SimTourist]

[Citation needed]If you're talking about the GPS Course Maker (as opposed to the Course Maker), anyone with a phone or a car that uses CANbus (which is anything made since about 2002) can use it. All it would need is to compare the GPS trace with mapping data and you have a route.It seems like you've put a lot of thought into reasons to hate it without any actual information on how it'll function. I have no idea how the core Course Maker will function - though I agree that the limited environments and functionality in GT5 didn't provide too much entertainment (something I spoke to Kazunori about, comparing GT5's Course 'Creator' function with ModNationRacers' more finely tuned tool). I have a much better idea of how the GPS Course Maker will work and it seems excellent.


Nonetheless, I can say with certainty that every effort is going into making Course Maker appear in GT6 before too much longer. With 11 of the 12 "future update" features already with us, the case for pessimism over its inclusion is in itself already slim.

Not being negative here, in all honesty I couldn't care less if it makes it into the game or not, but I find it ridiculous how it takes 2 years to implement a feature that the game was advertised with. I'd much prefer PD shift the focus to GT7/PS4 entirely rather than try to squeeze something out of a decade old machine. I wouldn't even be surprised if course maker works fine in their daily GT7 build and has been doing so for a while and then you have a small team that tries to trim it enough to make it work on a system with 16 times less memory and 10 times less power and remembering that Yamauchi claimed it was being beta tested a YEAR ago I'd say something is not right here.

 

[Pubs16]

Lol people take it so personal against PD and Sony. Yes it's taken awhile but I didn't even know it had it until awhile after I got the game... I'm willing to wait as it's not a huge interest for me, I use GT for league racing primarily.

I highly doubt they'll release GT7 before the course maker and I highly doubt it'll be more than 6 months away, I'm leaning towards the possibility it'll be waiting until GTAcademy is over.

I'm also sure that everyone who tries to make an impact by saying they're going to Xbone and Forza etc and never going back to Sony, will be seen again come GT7 .

 

[RACECAR]

Just live our lives and not worry about it? Sorry I am - I paid $90 for this game, an extra I paid for to have pre-bonus cars etc. Yet it has been over 18months since release and in that time I have not seen the course maker & the extra $$$'s I paid for to receive pre-order only bonuses to the game have been dished out free to the remaining public.

I and others do have a valid reason to worry. It is this very fact that I will not be purchasing another PD development again!

Whoa, you paid $90 for GT6? I know pre-order incentives can increase the price but damn, I paid half of that when I pre-ordered GT6 and got all the Pre-bonus cars. I'm not being funny here but I feel like whoever sold you this game ripped you off.

It could be still on the way, but due to ps3 limitations it's gonna be extremely limited/cumbersome to use. Who exactly is gonna use it anyway? Who's got enough time/resources to walk around with a GPS transmitter and try to capture a road? Considering general purpose GPS devices are fairly inaccurate as well any output is gonna vaguely resemble what you're trying to capture. Or if this is just like GT5 with few sliders then I don't get the appeal, I've spent precisely 10 minutes in course maker in GT5 as I've figured it's super boring to drive these randomly generated tracks. Seems like a lot of resources were put into a feature that will be used by 2.5 people in the world actively. Just my take on it obviously.

You realize Smartphones, the thing that damn near everyone has, are equipped with GPS, right?

 

[bremics]

Lol people take it so personal against PD and Sony. Yes it's taken awhile but I didn't even know it had it until awhile after I got the game... I'm willing to wait as it's not a huge interest for me, I use GT for league racing primarily.

I highly doubt they'll release GT7 before the course maker and I highly doubt it'll be more than 6 months away, I'm leaning towards the possibility it'll be waiting until GTAcademy is over.

I'm also sure that everyone who tries to make an impact by saying they're going to Xbone and Forza etc and never going back to Sony, will be seen again come GT7 .

Is that so? Pretty sure people were saying the same thing about GT5, didn't work out well for GT6's sales.

"Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you."

That's twice in a row they burned there customers and arguably the second time was worse.

 

[smskeeter23]

All I was going to say here is,

If it were to be announced that the CM would NOT be in GT6 as advertised I would fully expect at least an attempted class action suit.

However, I must say that I very much like the way @Famine has been hinting (rather heavily) recently, and I listen to and trust what that inferrs.

 

[jimipitbull]

Thanks for your input, good to know of your experience and that you are aware of, as you say, the legal grey area this falls into. That part I've bolded though, I fail to see how this would not breach the "Reasonable Time" law. There isn't anywhere in the law (US or UK as far as I'm aware) that specifies any amount of time for different services, but they will take into consideration the particular service, industry and expected time in comparison to other similar services.

If PD releases GT7 before GT6's course maker, or it takes them them another couple of years anyhow, sounds to me you would have a possible claim with PD not delivering within a reasonable time. 2-3 years is expected for an entire game, not a single feature that was, as PD claimed, virtually ready for release 1.5 years ago. Them saying it could make release and if not will be included soon after didn't help, it sets up an expectation which is also quoted in the law. All seems a bit iffy to me. PD's idea of "soon" and most other people's idea of soon are no doubt very different lengths of time.



I don't have fantastic legal knowledge though and could well be barking up the wrong legal tree. When do you personally think "reasonable time" would become a genuine claim? If I were to be taking it to court, I would make comparisons to other games built entirely within the same time frame, including that of PD themselves (GT2 to GT3 and all of the prologue+concept demos they threw out in a short space of time).

Sorry if I'm waffling a load of old rubbish.

It would cost you more in legal fees than the $60 you spent on the game.

 

[Streeto]

All I was going to say here is,

If it were to be announced that the CM would NOT be in GT6 as advertised I would fully expect at least an attempted class action suit.

However, I must say that I very much like the way @Famine has been hinting (rather heavily) recently, and I listen to and trust what that inferrs.

Just optimism, I'm sure he knows nothing more than we do, nobody can really know what's going on with it.

A lot of people I know have abandoned hope for CM or the game entirely, which is sad, but I don't blame them.

I still hope to see CM return, as it was pretty much my favourite part (feature) of GT5.

 

[Com Fox]

Is that so? Pretty sure people were saying the same thing about GT5, didn't work out well for GT6's sales.

"Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you."

That's twice in a row they burned there customers and arguably the second time was worse.

To be honest, I had little conflict with GT5. It was a let down compared to GT4 but it still had some enjoyment in it. GT6 however does not.

 

[Pubs16]

Is that so? Pretty sure people were saying the same thing about GT5, didn't work out well for GT6's sales.

"Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you."

That's twice in a row they burned there customers and arguably the second time was worse.

Being on the new generation platform I'm sure it would be a better turn around to GT7 than it was 5-6.

I wasn't on here before GT6 so I can't say I know too much about what went down with GT5 in terms of how they "burnt their customers" but I wasn't disappointed there nor do I feel burnt or fooled by PD for GT6.