So frustrating

  • Thread starter Hasassin_X
  • 96 comments
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zzz_pt
They don't though. Maybe for the average player (main target of PD) the PAD is more accessible to use than a wheel. But when we talk about the fastest guys out there and the FIA championships, there's no way a PAD can match a wheel user imo. Just pick a stock 911 GT3 and try to do a 2:02:xxx lap around Lake Maggiore with a PAD. :)

The throttle and brake control is more important at the limit than the steering input imo, so the wheel has the advantage. Otherwise, no one would be using wheels to be fast. Maybe to have fun offline and with friends but for sure not when competing on FIA cups.
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There are PAD users that are "aliens" (at least hotlapping).In other titles too btw.
 
LAG!!!

The game will try and smooth the motion between known states, but where the client goes quiet (lag) the game will predict where the car should be, the worse the lag, the worse the snap-back to the "real" position (the twitch). These "snaps" don't follow the same physics rules you do, but on the the twitchy clients PS4, he'll be driving smooth too, and you might be the twitchy one for all we know. Thats my take on it anyway. Better the connections (all round) smoother the other racers are.

And I was racing one of the fastest guys in the FIA stuff, and he had a wheel, and I'm pretty quick, 33rd for Alfa, not super quick, but quick enough, and he was just leaving me for dead. Good racer with a wheel is miles better than good racer with a pad imo. (my excuse anyway ;) )
 
JulesDennis
Why should they?
They are "masters" using the pad.They could propably learn to be as fast but there is a chance they could not.
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The number of fast pad users is so low compared to the amount of fast people who use wheels that it's almost irrelevant, given that the largest majority (if not all) of people have access to a pad by default and they're not the bulk of the learderboards. On the contrary, despite the number of wheel users being way lower than pad users, often you find 100% wheel users on the top of the leaderboards.

I was a pad user until 3 months ago and was the fastest in my country and one of the fastest in europe. But it was simply impossible (for me and for everyone else it seems, since the top times were always made with a wheel) to catch the fastest of the fastest.
 
zzz_pt
The number of fast pad users is so low compared to the amount of fast people who use wheels that it's almost irrelevant, given that the largest majority (if not all) of people have access to a pad by default and they're not the bulk of the learderboards. On the contrary, despite the number of wheel users being way lower than pad users, often you find 100% wheel users on the top of the leaderboards.

I was a pad user until 3 months ago and was the fastest in my country and one of the fastest in europe. But it was simply impossible (for me and for everyone else it seems, since the top times were always made with a wheel) to catch the fastest of the fastest.
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In what title?
Because in GTS there is not way to see if others use a pad or a wheel.
 
JulesDennis
In what title?
Because in GTS there is not way to see if others use a pad or a wheel.
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If you know the people who often are on the rankings you know what they use. But in general, PC2 for example, most people, sometimes all of them, are wheel users (community events). On AC you can't even use a controller to be fast - not on the PS4 at least. On past GTs, where you could see the type of controller, the largest majority (close to 100%) of GTAcademy qualifiers were wheel users. I guess 1 or 2 got in with pad times.

I remember a japanese alien (kmlt or something like that) who was fast as hell with a pad. But how many of those are there? I think it's giving false expectations to pad users that they can be as fast as 1 in a million guys. Best way to be fast imo is with a wheel and pedals. And you enjoy it more too imo.

I'm not saying there are not fast pad users. I'm saying they're so few that it's almost irrelevant when discussing which is best to get fastest times - wheel or pad. Because despite the low % of wheel users compared to the 100% of players who have a controller on the PS4, the leaderboards are overwhelmingly wheel users.
 
zzz_pt
If you know the people who often are on the rankings you know what they use. But in general, PC2 for example, most people, sometimes all of them, are wheel users (community events). On AC you can't even use a controller to be fast - not on the PS4 at least. On past GTs, where you could see the type of controller, the largest majority (close to 100%) of GTAcademy qualifiers were wheel users. I guess 1 or 2 got in with pad times.

I remember a japanese alien (kmlt or something like that) who was fast as hell with a pad. But how many of those are there? I think it's giving false expectations to pad users that they can be as fast as 1 in a million guys. Best way to be fast imo is with a wheel and pedals. And you enjoy it more too imo.

I'm not saying there are not fast pad users. I'm saying they're so few that it's almost irrelevant when discussing which is best to get fastest times - wheel or pad. Because despite the low % of wheel users compared to the 100% of players who have a controller on the PS4, the leaderboards are overwhelmingly wheel users.
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Its a racing game.People call these titles "simulator".
If you are serious about e-sports or competitive racing in a "simulator (in order to enter these kind of events) propably you are going to buy a wheel.
The wheel does not make people faster.A wheel gives a more "sim" experience.Thats the main reason to get one.
Now if you master a wheel,sure you can be faster than using a pad (especially in titles that have advanced physics engine).
 
The problem with this game is the lack of wheel settings there should be a advanced mode where you can calibrate your wheel and adjust it to your taste like dirt 4 this is a driving simulator but it's more like a sim-cade
 
I've only really noticed on the ring, but probably other tracks too... taking a smooth curve through a sequence of bends the car speed only increases when the wheels are straight, a pad user can keep flicking the wheels effectively having the wheels straight for longer constantly correcting the line and allowing the car to increase speed.
The arguement of wheel users having the faster times? using a wheel is a stressful experience, catching full opposite lock etc. However more serious racers are likely to have wheels, money and space is nothing compared to real racing or driving costs. Hell, I would sleep on the couch to give up my bed space for a wheel setup.
 
I've always been on a Dualshock. I haven't been the slowest with it, I've always been ok with it, there's pros and cons.
But if it wouldn't take a year or more to get up to the same speed with a wheel, I'd have got me one yesterday, believe me.
How can one doubt the wheel is faster overall ?
Cheers.

Edit:
@Hasassin_X
If you post a video concerning driving performances, it would be helpful to see the HUD instead of the RPL transport bar 👍.
 
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ROCKET JOE
I've always been on a Dualshock. I haven't been the slowest with it, I've always been ok with it, there's pros and cons.
But if it wouldn't take a year or more to get up to the same speed with a wheel, I'd have got me one yesterday, believe me.
How can one doubt the wheel is faster overall ?
Cheers.
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It took me a few weeks to get faster on a wheel than what I was on a controller. If you have a friend who can borrow you a wheel, try it out. You won't take more than a few weeks to get as fast or faster than on a DS4. :)
 
zzz_pt
It took me a few weeks to get faster on a wheel than what I was on a controller. If you have a friend who can borrow you a wheel, try it out. You won't take more than a few weeks to get as fast or faster than on a DS4. :)
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I haven't been too much slower than you ( estimated :) ) so I've always been pleased with my pace. I'm really afraid of losing that for a long time. Thanks for encouraging me :cheers: !
 
zzz_pt
They don't though. Maybe for the average player (main target of PD) the PAD is more accessible to use than a wheel. But when we talk about the fastest guys out there and the FIA championships, there's no way a PAD can match a wheel user imo. Just pick a stock 911 GT3 and try to do a 2:02:xxx lap around Lake Maggiore with a PAD. :)

The throttle and brake control is more important at the limit than the steering input imo, so the wheel has the advantage. Otherwise, no one would be using wheels to be fast. Maybe to have fun offline and with friends but for sure not when competing on FIA cups.
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This is what I assumed as well. The fidelity and control that a real pedal and wheels have just can't be imitated by a controller. My control range for my throttle is literally half an inch on a trigger, feathering that into an even transition is almost impossible without TCS. The same with steering. You can try to have smooth turns but for the most part you're jabbing the car towards the inside with the joystick, so counter steering helps to smooth out the input. That being said, I can't put down as much power on the exit with TCS on and steering handling becomes a bit sluggish with counter steering on. I don't know how many corners I would lose on GT6 because my car would twitch around a corner and I would have a 50/50 shot of the weight being on the correct side of my car to easily hit the apex on the next turn.

But yeah, that would be horrible if these assists were bugged and I was just cheating this entire time.
 
BallPtPenTheif
But yeah, that would be horrible if these assists were bugged and I was just cheating this entire time.
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I wouldn't call it cheating ... they are what they are and they are there to use them.
It's important though to find out how they work and what their benefits are ... and ... make our decisions in the end whether we use them or not for whatever reason.
 
I used a controller in the past GT's, I did pretty well with it. Even did Nurburgring with an Enzo in GT6 and did pretty well, smooth driving(for most part), did crash at least twice a lap as that car was fast. I would say driving with a controller is easier unless you have a proper wheel setup with proper pedals. The pedals matter a lot, my standard T150 pedals are calibrated oddly, or this can be due to the game too. Most of the braking/throttle occurs from about 75-100% input, so there is little leeway to smoothly trail brake or exit the corner progressively. I can do that with the controller better in GT6. With better pedals the wheel user will be equal if he can also find a nice steering mode that suits the car. The little feedback from the tires doesn't help us wheel users either.

So really the advantage to wheel users is being able to have more fun, avoid collisions and take fine driving lines. These lines aren't benefitting us because other drivers able to go wide and recover and cut much distance. Of course there are simply better drivers(in the game) that modulate braking and time it really well with the wheel/controller and I'm not taking away from their talent. That doesn't explain what we saw in this video though.

Could he have had better tires since it is a public lobby and not sport mode?
 
I think I’m as fast as I’ going to be with a pad. Currently fluctuating between DR B/C. Still usually 3-4 second off of the lap records.

The only aid is in use traction control because, like someone else said, the range on the trigger for throttle is so smal an touchy you just can’t get good speed out of corners. Steering is a little better but I know I’ll be faster with a wheel.

Even though the wife will no doubt make fun, I’m going to grab one on sale Black Friday.
 


So here is a video by a guy who thinks the CSM does make you faster... I'm a Dual Shock driver, cause I play in my living room with no place for a wheel set up, and using the driving aids on higher powered cars as needed. FWIW I'd be in favor of limitations in online racing series like FIA Cup and MFR Cup.[/QUOTE]
 
For giggles, I'm going to turn that on and test it out. I don't use aids at all, but I want to see what this does to time time attack in the Huracan. Will report back. I use a G27 with Drivehub by the way.
 
ArchangelX
For ***** and giggles, I'm going to turn that on and test it out. I don't use aids at all, but I want to see what this does to time time attack in the Huracan. Will report back. I use a G27 with Drivehub by the way.
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What I've learned is that you need to get into the corners early and stay on the gas to "drift" through corners to make it work best "fast"; if you let off throttle like normal, you tend to slide out more than if you stay on the gas letting it correct...
 
RotorHed
I saw that. Yes could be skill, or luck or assists or it could just be the fidelity of the replay.

Since you think his speed is unreasonable, have you tried to recreate it? Using aids and DS4 if you want. At the moment you’re making an assumption that he got some advantage from that. Given how far ahead of you he was by the end, you should immediately go faster by using a DS4 and assists.

Ive fiddled with CSA and some others (with a wheel) but didn’t achieve any significant time differences with the assists on.

So far, in my time in online races I haven’t seen anyone who I felt was being advantaged through anything be it using a DS4 or CSA or whatever.
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The only reason he was so far ahead at the end was due to where I applied the brakes up to that last turn. I didn’t wait until the last minute to brake as he did. Yet I should’ve caught him due to the sliding he did on the last two corners.

zzz_pt
They don't though. Maybe for the average player (main target of PD) the PAD is more accessible to use than a wheel. But when we talk about the fastest guys out there and the FIA championships, there's no way a PAD can match a wheel user imo. Just pick a stock 911 GT3 and try to do a 2:02:xxx lap around Lake Maggiore with a PAD. :)

The throttle and brake control is more important at the limit than the steering input imo, so the wheel has the advantage. Otherwise, no one would be using wheels to be fast. Maybe to have fun offline and with friends but for sure not when competing on FIA cups.
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There are a ton of pad users that are in the top 5 in the world. Especially in Project Cars 2 where the physics are harder. So yes pad users can absolutely be faster than a fast wheel user.
 
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ArchangelX
For giggles, I'm going to turn that on and test it out. I don't use aids at all, but I want to see what this does to time time attack in the Huracan. Will report back. I use a G27 with Drivehub by the way.
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Really looking forward to the results of your test 👍.
 
ROCKET JOE
Really looking forward to the results of your test 👍.
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I am in the process of uploading my last race. It was at Bathurst during the manufacturing championship. I’m driving for Ferrari and qualified in 3rd place. I ended up in 2nd place due to the corvette losing control in front of me, but the replay is focused on a NSX! Pay close attention to not only his driving but how he realizes he’s faster with TC on and his lap time keeps increasing although he consistently crashes! He is using a pad and this is exactly what I was talking about. It’s clear evidence that something is seriously wrong here. I made one mistake and lost control for a hot second. Other than that I was clean all the way through. Yet this NSX caught me some how and almost took second place.

The advantage given to pad users is extremely exaggerated. If you call a game a sim then what he is doing should not make him faster by any means, yet he is! The first place winner was also using a pad driving in a similar manner but with out crashing. My average lap time in this race was 2:11.800 so I’m lost how I couldn’t catch the first place car? He was driving a WRX with a similar lap time as me. Yet he finished way ahead of me!

Something needs to be patched. Especially racing in a championship for real world prizes !
 
BleedingEdge
So here is a video by a guy who thinks the CSM does make you faster...
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well, first lets be honest... that's the whole point of CSM, is to make you faster. without counter steering, the DS4 inputs are shaky and disrupt the car's balance too much. this directly translates to your traction on your exit speed making you faster.

i think the big concern here though is how it's making people faster. ideally, we just want the CSM to smooth out DS4 inputs enough to be somewhat comparable to a steering wheel so that you can more easily create smooth turns that don't unsettle the car. if the CSM is indeed over compensating on traction loss and just cheesing the physics, then we have a problem.

that guy's rant video really didn't prove anything since his CSM time was set after he ran it without aids. just his acclimation to the course could explain a 1/2 second increase.
 
kjeldsen
I did the FIA Race in my Viper, everything on, it is by far easier than without (surprise) and in the end i think it is faster by a healthy margin for the vast majority of drivers. The aids makes the many tiny mistakes unnoticeable and even the bigger mistakes have no serious consequences.

I think we need an adjustment on the aids, they should either slow down the cars or create races where the aids a limited. I can see the advantage of being able to race with Wheel users, but as someone who usually does not enable aids (except TCS) i am usually at a real disadvantage. And considering the track, and the little time i have had on that track in the Viper, i did not expect to start from 12sh and make it to 5. And it would have been better if i didn't have to give up two positions for the bumping of a ferrari in a corner :-)
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Were you in my race ? I was pretty much clear of the pack and running up front chasing the corvette , and the wrx.
 

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