So it looks like we're gonna get a paintshop?

[harrytuttle]

Found here.

Thanks! 👍 Obviously, I was looking in the wrong place.


About whether PD should include this bodykit or that paintshop, if the game has limited (or non-existent) online capabilities then it really doesn't matter. It would be highly unlikely you would be up against two identical Raybrig NSX's in single-player mode. And I wouldn't hold my breath for any internet/online playability. GT4 was supposed to have some type of online racing, too. Just don't go crazy about something you (1) have no control of, and (2) may all be for nothing anyway.

 

[SkylineObsession]

Well, then maybe if you didn't know exactly what it was about, then you shouldn't have lectured me whether if I should have used it or not.
True. I just did it because it appeared as though you didn't take any notice of his post and just instantly minus repped him. Just how it looked.

Now that's just silly and you know it, that was an example of what one of my friends said...AAANDD I even said "sorry mods". You don't need to be too smrat to realize the intentions of that post and mvandepas's one.
Yes, but a breach is a breach even if you write/mean it in a different way and apologise for it. There could have been alternatives to use, like shoit or omigodlol etc. Perhaps even 'S@&%' (so people know it is the 's' word and not the eff word).

Well, either you or me are misunderstood here then, because when I read "real life driving simulator" or "simulating real life driving" , color doesn't come to my mind, but the verb "driving".
I'm thinking we may need to get him to explain what he meant better (if it hasn't been done already).

Wheels choice and color are just peanuts features that don't really take away the point of it.
Custom colours is a peanut feature too then, when we start getting into the sponsor logos and decals it becomes a different story.

You know that everyone in the OLR forums use this mode right? Also, B-Spec "bob" can be trained here, and become a better driver. Also there are tons of racing nuts out there whom only think in getting better and better at the game without the intrusion of the AI.
Fair enough, but i was just saying that not everybody uses that feature for racing or bettering times. Some of us just like driving around at (usually) slower speeds than normal.
Perhaps using the painted lines on Circuit de la Sarthe II and sticking to the speed limit and side of the road which is in effect on your country of residence and pretending you are really driving that stretch of 'road'. *cough* Not that i ever do that of course. *cough* *splutter* *hack*

Now how can that be proved?? Maybe only if you come to NY and decide to stalk me then you can figure that out.
Stalking you probably would be the only way i could be sure (what is your address again? ), but you are too far away for that and wouldn't do it anyway.

BTW, generalizing is one fo the worst things you can do.
True, which is why it isn't necessary to think the worst when it comes to decals etc in the next GT.

I was basing your age to what your responses were like.
Easy on.

I'm not saying low qaulity because he disagreed with me, but because the way he overlooked my post without backing himself up.
You've (seemingly) done a little overlooking yourself though.

And you are as blinded as you say I am then.
Not, apparently, on the same degree/level.

I have my point of view and regardless of the length of this thread, my view of the future feature will remain the same, and I'm not intending to change yours either.
My intention was never to change your view, just wanted to understand why you seemed to be letting everyone know it so often when usually once or twice is enough. Mostly that anyway. I am also bored and haven't had a good discussion like this for a while, you are a worthy opponent for sure.

You can't predict how this feature will change the image of the game.
Okay, we'll make a deal. You don't fear the worst about it, and i won't hope for the best.

First of all I didn't know you had such a nice car , but I still don't like the color. I'm a fan of what it can do...not the paint.
Thanks. So you'd happily race a car that hadn't been painted at all, or was all primered/patched up? Just so i get your view completely - i suspect you'll say yes.

If I said I'd use in B-Spec mode..then obviously I wouldn't do it for esthetics reasons.
What would you do it for then?

And If I paint my car, would be beause I'd want to change the original color for another stock color. (which is why I would like that feature included in the game) I want to be able to paint cars but from one color to another plain color...now, if I have extra options like adding flames, and funny stuff like that...then just won't do it.
Okay. 👍 I likely wouldn't either as i generally keep away from street racing-esque games. In Forza i decal-erise my cars etc mostly so they look like race cars.

You really misunderstood that right there.
Well no, you originally said "I just won't paint my cars and that's all", then later you said you might do so if a car only comes in two colours (SLR). If you meant you won't put DECALS etc on your car and thats all - then you should have mentioned that.

Perhaps because of your struggle at reading my posts, is why you say that.
See above.

No need for that, as I think that if you still don't get what I'm trying to say, then it maybe because we have different opinions about this.
Thats a fact. Just like others will have different opinions to ours.

To be honest, this doesn't really worry me all that much. I just read it at a time when i was pretty bored, so hey. No harm done. 👍

 

[OZZYGT]

Well, then maybe if you didn't know exactly what it was about, then you shouldn't have lectured me whether if I should have used it or not.
True. I just did it because it appeared as though you didn't take any notice of his post and just instantly minus repped him. Just how it looked.

Now that's just silly and you know it, that was an example of what one of my friends said...AAANDD I even said "sorry mods". You don't need to be too smrat to realize the intentions of that post and mvandepas's one.
Yes, but a breach is a breach even if you write/mean it in a different way and apologise for it. There could have been alternatives to use, like shoit or omigodlol etc. Perhaps even 'S@&%' (so people know it is the 's' word and not the eff word).

Well, either you or me are misunderstood here then, because when I read "real life driving simulator" or "simulating real life driving" , color doesn't come to my mind, but the verb "driving".
I'm thinking we may need to get him to explain what he meant better (if it hasn't been done already).

Wheels choice and color are just peanuts features that don't really take away the point of it.
Custom colours is a peanut feature too then, when we start getting into the sponsor logos and decals it becomes a different story.

You know that everyone in the OLR forums use this mode right? Also, B-Spec "bob" can be trained here, and become a better driver. Also there are tons of racing nuts out there whom only think in getting better and better at the game without the intrusion of the AI.
Fair enough, but i was just saying that not everybody uses that feature for racing or bettering times. Some of us just like driving around at (usually) slower speeds than normal.
Perhaps using the painted lines on Circuit de la Sarthe II and sticking to the speed limit and side of the road which is in effect on your country of residence and pretending you are really driving that stretch of 'road'. *cough* Not that i ever do that of course. *cough* *splutter* *hack*

Now how can that be proved?? Maybe only if you come to NY and decide to stalk me then you can figure that out.
Stalking you probably would be the only way i could be sure (what is your address again? ), but you are too far away for that and wouldn't do it anyway.

BTW, generalizing is one fo the worst things you can do.
True, which is why it isn't necessary to think the worst when it comes to decals etc in the next GT.

I was basing your age to what your responses were like.
Easy on.

I'm not saying low qaulity because he disagreed with me, but because the way he overlooked my post without backing himself up.
You've (seemingly) done a little overlooking yourself though.

And you are as blinded as you say I am then.
Not, apparently, on the same degree/level.

I have my point of view and regardless of the length of this thread, my view of the future feature will remain the same, and I'm not intending to change yours either.
My intention was never to change your view, just wanted to understand why you seemed to be letting everyone know it so often when usually once or twice is enough. Mostly that anyway. I am also bored and haven't had a good discussion like this for a while, you are a worthy opponent for sure.

You can't predict how this feature will change the image of the game.
Okay, we'll make a deal. You don't fear the worst about it, and i won't hope for the best.

First of all I didn't know you had such a nice car , but I still don't like the color. I'm a fan of what it can do...not the paint.
Thanks. So you'd happily race a car that hadn't been painted at all, or was all primered/patched up? Just so i get your view completely - i suspect you'll say yes.

If I said I'd use in B-Spec mode..then obviously I wouldn't do it for esthetics reasons.
What would you do it for then?

And If I paint my car, would be beause I'd want to change the original color for another stock color. (which is why I would like that feature included in the game) I want to be able to paint cars but from one color to another plain color...now, if I have extra options like adding flames, and funny stuff like that...then just won't do it.
Okay. 👍 I likely wouldn't either as i generally keep away from street racing-esque games. In Forza i decal-erise my cars etc mostly so they look like race cars.

You really misunderstood that right there.
Well no, you originally said "I just won't paint my cars and that's all", then later you said you might do so if a car only comes in two colours (SLR). If you meant you won't put DECALS etc on your car and thats all - then you should have mentioned that.

Perhaps because of your struggle at reading my posts, is why you say that.
See above.

No need for that, as I think that if you still don't get what I'm trying to say, then it maybe because we have different opinions about this.
Thats a fact. Just like others will have different opinions to ours.

To be honest, this doesn't really worry me all that much. I just read it at a time when i was pretty bored, so hey. No harm done. 👍

Done deal

I still have some questions, but let's just call it the day, I'm tired

*EDIT* BTW I can't believe you didn't realize that this post ^^^ was your 3000th one.




Ciao!

 

[SkylineObsession]

Okay, had a good time.
Until next time (joke). *slightly evil laugh*

Alright people, it is safe to reply to this topic again.

 

[shabba]

I know this thread is about the livery editor, but look at some of the features listed: spectator mode! Team builder! Club builder! Woot!!! This is looking good. I can see a huge online presence developing out of this - especially if not only you can build your own racing team, but even your own car club! I can see it now - the Ginetta owner's club of Australia, or the Ferrari club of London. This has the potential to seriously rock!

And lookit some more. Suppose you get to create a racing team in GT5. And you get to choose the graphics for your car, your suit, your helmet, and the crew team uniforms. Do you SERIOUSLY want the graphic elements of another established racing team that's in the league, with their decals, their NAME on the car, and the same racing number??

I mean, come on, get real here. Racing teams go to great lengths to have cool looking, totally unique vehicles with their VERY OWN paint jobs. Now, maybe I'm crazy or something, but I have this weird idea that I'd like to create my VERY OWN race car, with my VERY OWN body kits, and my VERY OWN paint job, and my VERY OWN name, and my VERY OWN number on my car. That I design my VERY OWN self. I want to do like EVERY OTHER race team does when they enter a racing league, or even update their cars with new graphics.

I hadn't thought of going so far as customising helmets and race-suits, but for online racing that would be awesome! Imagine the variety you could have.

What would really be cool, though, is if the online servers could automatically assign numbers to each car, so that no two cars had the same number. The only exception I'd see here is if a racer had their own custom number - for example Peter Brock (Rest his soul) always wore the '05' number. Dick Johnson ran for years with the number 17. So champion or high level/reputation racers could get their own number.

Anyway, back on the main topic - Anything that is optional can only be an improvement to the game. Why? Because if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. I don't disrespect anybody who likes to keep it stock. I'd be of the mindset to design a custom racing livery and use it on my competition cars, but leave my private cars reasonably stock. The only thing I would really do is maybe a pearl coat on some cars, and if I'm part of (or founder of) a racing team, a simple decal on the front quarter panel identifying my racing team. That's about it.

Depending on exactly how much detail the editor goes into, though, I can see it being used for 'show' cars. Whether or not this goes in the direction of the 'ricers', as they're called, would depend on the people who use it.
There are plenty of genuinely respectable show cars out there - not all of them what you see in 2F2F or NFSU. Again, I don't think anybody could say that it would 'degrade' the game - same thing: if you don't like it, don't use it. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game, because even if you don't like it, there will be somebody out there who gets a benefit out of it. Look at the photomode competitions on this forum, for example. Imagine being able to do that online for all to see. There are some awesome artists here who would deserve that kind of exposure.

Whichever way it goes, though, the racing is still good - so let's all sit back, relax, soak up the high octane fumes and go another lap.

Cheers.

 

[Slurm]

that sounds horrible to me!! pink skylines!?

let me ask you all a question.. is it really so important for you guys to be able to repaint the car??? and if yes, WHY?

I think maybe we have an imagination.

 

[Slurm]

Ozzy, I read your post about your vision for the game and I appreciate that GT means alot to you, like it means alot to most of us. None of us want it to go in a direction we don't like. I can appreciate what you're worried about. But I REALLY think you're assuming that in giving people freedom, everything is going to fall into dissarray and there'll be spinners and flame decals flying all over the place. But why should I, as your opponent, be denied the right to ruin my car however I want? I will paint my car exactly how I want it to look, and when I go out on the track, I want opponents' cars to be how THEY want them, to create variety. I want to kick the arse of everyone else out there, and I want them to represent themselves in a way different to me, and I want to be able to represent myself too, so that when I win the race in spectacular fashion, people will remember the colour of my car.

The fact is, some of us are more artistic, and some of us are more mathematically minded. We all appreciate and value different things but I'd like to say: just because you personally are a fan of what a car can do, and care not about it's appearance. Just because you think that given the freedom, people will completely taint all that is good and proper about the look of GT, and just because you can't even see why someone might possibly not want to find themself racing against 6 or 7 competitors with machines that look exactly the same as their own pride and joy, its no reason to deny everyone else a freedom that obviously means so much to them. And it really does mean alot to us: For alot of people there's an indescribable magic about the visual spectacle of a racing car, and being able to make our own makes us wet our gay artistic little panties!

 

[Slurm]

I just read this thread through. please disregard anything u take exception to I didnt realise I was restarting something that had been finished..

 

[King Crockery]

Custom colouring outside the manufacturers options reminded me of this.

There are just some things that need to be the way they are....

 

[JohnBM01]

Pink Skylines? You bet. Ever heard of Yashio Factory? Yashio (I think "Yashio" is the combined translation of the number 840. Not sure though. I know it begins with 8 and ends with 0) Factory is a manufacturer of aftermarket goodies. The majority of stuff I've seen from them are of Toyota and Nissan. I've seen stuff like a pink Toyota Vitz/Yaris/Echo, a pink Nissan 240SX, and let's not forget my favorite modern Nissan- the S15 Silvia.

Now on to defending the notion of a Paint Shop. People want to be creative. Painting up cars makes you able to make your car YOUR car. I probably wanted to imagine putting my own graphics on my tuned Toyota Tacoma X-Runner in GT4. Some of you may know that I considered the Tacoma X-Runner as one of the more surprising automobiles in GT4. I noted that it was a "car in a truck's body." I think I won all the Sport Truck races in GT4 as well as the Japanese Championship with it. I normally hate that people start thinking of "rice" when talking about painting up cars or whatever, and I really wish people shouldn't think that right away. I've taken offense when someone was talking about "I can put a wing on a Mini, but not a..." The stand I've taken is that you shouldn't always think of "rice" when you mention a paint shop or putting a rear wing on a car. Do you think that's what most hot rod builders think of when they put little flames on cars? Is that's what is thought of when someone modifies a 1969 Corvette with a wing to help with rear-end downforce in drag racing? There are plenty of non-rice, non-tuner features. Don't be so quick to write this deal off. I'm going to try to get a 3000GT in GT4 and mod it up into a race car. I did it once and ended up selling the car. I want to do it again. Maybe get one in red or blue. Then, I'm going to imagine if I gave it a paint style like in GT1 since I didn't like the Puma livery in GT2. I think PD should really follow "Forza Motorsport 2" on their inclusion of being able to modify skins on the PC then putting them on the car. Imagine if GTHD and GT5 had this feature. Hell, we could even have gtplanet.net liveries to work with or make up. The thing most people forget (or don't care) about is that the tuning and painting deals are about creativity. And this is even if you're offended by all of this. You may take away a Paint Shop option, but you can NEVER take away creativity. If PD doesn't put in something like this, not a lot of people would get to modify car colors and schemes. Look to the Forza series. I know they are GT's rivals, but at least this provides the basis for customization and personalization that doesn't usually entail NFS:U-style tuning and modding.

So don't think of this as something purely offensive. It makes things a bit more fun. The benefactors of something like this are those who want to further build their dream car. I have those visions. Do you? That's what this is all about. Nothing more, nothing less.

Carry on discussion.

 

[benzoboy]

Sureley I'm not the only one who noticed the colour/livery editor on the gt hd video?

What video?

 

[dylansan]

All I have to say is, adding paint shop will probably not ruin the theme of GT. Nobody ever says "stop playing GT and go play Forza you ricer!" because Forza is a respectable, realistic sim. NFS is not realistic, so those people who don't know what understeer is will play that, because it isn't as complicated as "throtle control" or "lift off oversteer." It's just a lame game, and it just so happens those kind of people like those simple games. GT on the other hand is a very realistic game, and I doubt it will ever drop lower due to paint shop, especially after the success of Forza and upcoming Forza 2. Now think 5th generation games. Not many of those are there? It's really hard to change what an old game is known for.

Plus, customization may be important to ricers, but that doesn't mean only ricers will like it. Just like including the two ancient benzes and Model T, or even some cars from anywhere up to the 50s, doesn't mean GT is an "old person's game."

 

[UnoMOTO]

Some of the highest volume threads here are the photo mode types. Picture after picture of the stock colored car. The passion of the photo junkies here should really be able to express there visions on the car instead of just where the car might be. I would guess some of you would steal a custom painted car and use it for your desktop backround.
Don't get your panties in a wrinkle if PD adds a paint shop. You ALL know you will still buy the game. ANNND...if every thing were perfect in the game, what would you guys do with all your time when you had nothing to complain about.

 

[shabba]

Custom colouring outside the manufacturers options reminded me of this.

There are just some things that need to be the way they are....

Heh, so we have Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, Darth Maul and now Darth Mew...
Yay.

I went looking on Google for the Yashio cars John mentioned... and this is what I came across. Who mentioned pink? And... check the number plates: 840, just as John called it. Gotta love it!

 

[JohnBM01]

Yeah. That's Yashio Factory, shabba. Thanks for setting me straight on what "Yashio" means since I knew two of the three numbers its English translation makes.

 

[Ben Aracin]

I'm going to agree with Live4speed and Tenacious D, among the other supporters of the "it's about time" option of custm paint/livery.
To take a more in depth look at it, i'll give my old example...again.
Buy one car, say a 2006 Ford Mustang GT.
Now i modify the performance aspects.
After doing to to my satisfaction i want to throw a cool looking scheme on it.
Now that Mustang is setup for Touring car racing.
Buy another one, set it up for a higher class, add another, different looking, outer customized paint/decal/bodykit scheme for it as well.
etc, etc.
Having the option for outer body customizing would add to replayability as well as the online/multiplayer section, as youknow your ride would be different than your competition.
Nobody is saying go all buck wild with it.
There can be very good subtly done outer body paint schemes.
Or even going the "classic" race scheme with the older cars by looking up pics of them and transfeering said design to your in game ride, etc.
It's about time they add this in.

 

[shabba]

Or even going the "classic" race scheme with the older cars by looking up pics of them and transfeering said design to your in game ride, etc.

Interesting idea, but you'd just have to watch copyright infringement.

 

[Tenacious D]

You don't have to worry about copyrights if you do something for your own enjoyment. I'm perfectly free to make a painting of a Colin McRae race car. But if I make lithographs of it to sell online, THEN I'm guilty of copyright and trademark infringements.

Making a copy of something for yourself is fine. You can even "sell" painted and modded up cars you make online for game credits.

 

[Deathclown66]

As we all might have done it before, in GT4, whenever you want to change your car's color, you buy the one with the desired color again and you sell or keep the old one. If the mentioned feature is left out of the game, PD will get more money out of us if we are crazy enough to get the same car with different color and thus increasing their money revenue.

Could I ask what you're talking about?
Are you saying PD makes a percentage off every car in GT4 I buy? Or are you saying PD simply gets a thrill out of knowing they took our fictional money? Do they proceed to stuff our fictional money in their fictional pockets?


On a seperate issue, who said a paintshop would be bad?
And what is their argument towards realism? Do they know you can paint cars in the real world? Do they know you can paint them outside of factory color schemes?
Let's forbid painting, only ricers paint their cars. Real men let 'em rust to death.
Let's make it so the only cars you can race are pre-made racecars, that way there are no road cars road racing.
nevermind that LeMans, DTM JGTC, and countless other series are just street vehicles, with body kits, performance mods, and, God Forbid, CUSTOM PAINT!

Okay, really though, can you name a single good reason as to why/how a paintshop would be a bad thing?
("I don't like it", does not count)

As for why I'd like it? Well, maybe I want a blue C5 ZO6, a stock color PD forgot. Maybe I want a dark green Nissan 350Z, so it's a different color than the race car beside me. Maybe I want my car to reflect my taste, instead of some auto company's pre-selected colors that they decided would be popular.
Maybe hot pink is my favorite color.
Maybe I painted my real 350Z bright green, and want one just like mine.
I could go on, but I hope you can get the point from this.

 

[OZZYGT]

*nonesense*

Okay, really though, can you name a single good reason as to why/how a paintshop would be a bad thing?
("I don't like it", does not count)

As for why I'd like it? Well, maybe I want a blue C5 ZO6, a stock color PD forgot. Maybe I want a dark green Nissan 350Z, so it's a different color than the race car beside me. Maybe I want my car to reflect my taste, instead of some auto company's pre-selected colors that they decided would be popular.
Maybe hot pink is my favorite color.
Maybe I painted my real 350Z bright green, and want one just like mine.
I could go on, but I hope you can get the point from this.

*sigh* Erm, excuse me, can you read through the whole thread please? I'm not gonna bother with you, I've had an argument over this already and I really don't feel like explaining to you when you can answer your own question.

Welcome to GTP and refrain from doing this again please.






Ciao!

 

[Dave A]

LeMans, DTM JGTC, and countless other series are just street vehicles, with body kits, performance mods, and, God Forbid, CUSTOM PAINT!

Technically only some cars are that, all DTM cars are silhouettes, that means they are not modified versions of the road car, they are purpose built form the ground up like that. So they arn't street cars with body kits, again some JGTC cars are silhouettes too (though not all) like the GT500 spec Supra's, Skylines and NSX's. But I do agree with your point, there' s a hell of a lot of race cars that actually are kitted up road cars, modified to the point that they are on a par in some cases with these purpose built silhouette racers, or also race in series where there are no silhouettes. Being able to kit up your own cars is imo no way at all ricey, arcadey or taking aything away from the realism of the GT series, rather imo it is adding to it.

 

[Deathclown66]

Technically only some cars are that, all DTM cars are silhouettes, that means they are not modified versions of the road car, they are purpose built form the ground up like that. So they arn't street cars with body kits, again some JGTC cars are silhouettes too (though not all) like the GT500 spec Supra's, Skylines and NSX's. But I do agree with your point, there' s a hell of a lot of race cars that actually are kitted up road cars, modified to the point that they are on a par in some cases with these purpose built silhouette racers, or also race in series where there are no silhouettes. Being able to kit up your own cars is inmo no way at all ricey, arcadey or taking ayitnhg away from the realism of the GT series, rather imo it is adding to it.

Okay, well I don't know a whole lot about foriegn racing leagues, but I did read up on a Lambo Murci R-GT, and thats a real car, amazingly lightened to 2200Lbs!

But the point is the bold highlights, that's the point here, and unfortunatley, I must correct you. That is not just your opinion. It is a fact.👍

 

[buickgnx88]

yo Deathclown66, you make good points that tho they were mentioned b4, they still are valid. dont pay any attention to Ozzy, he thinks he's "all that". i agree with you 100%, there's no problem with having a paintshop in a game. oh and if no one else has said this, welcome to GT Planet!

 

[JohnBM01]

If we keep arguing like this, we aren't going to go much of anywhere. Here's the thing.

I will agree on the deal concerning painting up cars. Ozzy isn't a smart ass. He was truthful in that quote made in Post #63. Mustang-Man mentioned something on decals like flames and such. I personally don't like flame effects all that much. think flames are very tacky unless you're talking about flames on classic cars. I think it's very possible to see a wide array of paint styles to use. There would be a different number of styles. Some people (mostly muscle car types) would put on a racing stripe and not go for completely flashy schemes. The best aspect of a paint shop feature (especially a good one) is that you can be free to create your own paint style. I certainly want to paint up cars in my possession with team colors. I would likely want to come up stuff like sunshield visors (like on the windshields of "Holden" and "Ford" on V8 Supercars) with some message. It would also be interesting if I could transport colors to other cars including any identical car. My "team colors" are two shades of blue with yellow accents. Two alternative colors for me would be two shades of blue with silver accents, and then two shades of red with gold accents. I'd love to race some British muscle with British Racing Green. British Racing Green for most British cars is like red for Ferrari or Alfa Romeo. As I've said, this doesn't make things better on the racing front, but it adds some extra customization without going into the "NFS: Underground" realm.

Photo Mode was a big deal with GT4. Perhaps this photo shop package would work for GTHD and GT5. It would once again make things more fun as you have more to do than just race. At least I get tired of racing at times. So I usually just tune up and test cars. I even go do Family Cup races in GT4 just to get it to race. The Family Cup events added some replay value since you don't have to clear these races to get 100% completion. Let's talk about the technical aspect of this planned paint shop deal. Will it add more replay value? Will it make the game more fun, at least in terms of on-the-side things to do in the game?

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

If PD is considerate enough to include color change in the game, then it would have to be very limited. Remember that Ferrari have finally accepted PD's offers after all this time, and they are now in the game; and because of this, I think Ferrari wouldn't like their cars to be "customized" at that extent. PD has to be very careful with this.

Okay, that is something I've never been able to understand. What is the reasoning behind not wanting people to do certain things with their car? Why would they not want any of their cars painted, say, lime green with black stripes? If I bought a real Ferrari, I'm pretty sure I could paint it in any color I like, it's not like they'd void my warranty or confinscate/repo it if it wasn't factory color. I have also been under the impression that when you buy a game, you essential are buying a virtual copy of every car in that game, same principle with individually purchased items a la GTHD. And aren't you allowed to do whatever you want to your own property (since it has become yours)? Now I know there may be consequences, such as voiding a real car's warrenty with aftermarket engine tweaks, but you are allowed to do that if you accept the risk of the void. And know you can't do something patently illegal, like redistributing paysite work for free on the net, or burning down your own house for the insurance money. Back to the point, doesn't the virtual car become yours when you buy, and if so, what does Ferrari care if you want to personalize it the way you want? Is painting my F50 lime green really that terrible?

I'm no legal expert, but can someone please explain this concept to me, and why it is so? I'm not even talking this specific GT game either, as I've seen the issue arise in other racing game too, ranging from not wanting a car customized to not being damaged.

 

[Dave A]

In Ozzy's defence he has answered all these questions before, I think I see where he's coming from though I still very much dissagree with his opinion. Don't expect to get the answers again though. And buickgnx88, Ozzy doesn't think "he's all that", he's a respected member here he just has an opinion in this case which differes from the majority, so let's not make this personal okay.

to answer your question 3-Wheel Drive about limitations being put in games, it's all down the agreement made between the manufacturer and the game developer. The reasons for this vary greatly, car company A may say sure you can use this car and that car for xxx ammount of cash, the developer may then ask if they can allow you to do this that and the other to the car and have the cars get damaged. The car company may then say okay but we want more cash, okay fine you can do that, or not on your life, we don't want people to see our cars messed up or damaged. That's very over simplified, and the actual reasons given will vary and wil be far more specific but it all boils down to what the car companly allows the developer to do with thier cars. When you own a car in real life that car becomes your property, When a developer puts a car in a game that car is licensed, they don't own it, it's like owning a flat, you can do what you want to it, it's your flat. Renting a flat on the other hand is a different matter, you may be paying for it and living there but the flat isn't yours.

 

[Raitziger]

i think its just stupid argue about something you can do in game. Just dont do it,if you dont like it.
i just fancy an idea of my own special race team theme on some of my cars.

And what comes to licening issues,i dont think there will be a problem. Forza has a lot of cars and you can paint them.

 

[Dave A]

But you can't paint the Ferraris in Test Drive Unlimited, you can re-pain other cars custom colours, but not the Ferraris. There's a hell of a lot more to it than this game has it so why not that one, there's a lot of money, time and negotiation that goes into it all and the car company will take into account what kind of people buy the game, own the console what kind of mods and paint jobs people will likely be making for thier cars, they put far too much thought into it because really th public arn't so shallow that if they see a pink Enzo with a dented wing in a game they'll think Enzo's irl are gay and fragile. Marking people don't seem to like looking at things in simple ways though. I wish it was that simple, but it's not.

 

[greenlightning]

Okay, that is something I've never been able to understand. What is the reasoning behind not wanting people to do certain things with their car? Why would they not want any of their cars painted, say, lime green with black stripes? If I bought a real Ferrari, I'm pretty sure I could paint it in any color I like, it's not like they'd void my warranty or confinscate/repo it if it wasn't factory color. I have also been under the impression that when you buy a game, you essential are buying a virtual copy of every car in that game, same principle with individually purchased items a la GTHD. And aren't you allowed to do whatever you want to your own property (since it has become yours)? Now I know there may be consequences, such as voiding a real car's warrenty with aftermarket engine tweaks, but you are allowed to do that if you accept the risk of the void. And know you can't do something patently illegal, like redistributing paysite work for free on the net, or burning down your own house for the insurance money. Back to the point, doesn't the virtual car become yours when you buy, and if so, what does Ferrari care if you want to personalize it the way you want? Is painting my F50 lime green really that terrible?

I'm no legal expert, but can someone please explain this concept to me, and why it is so? I'm not even talking this specific GT game either, as I've seen the issue arise in other racing game too, ranging from not wanting a car customized to not being damaged.

Question or thought for all of you. Lets say you made a car book or maybe even video on say Ferrari etc. Also lets say that maybe you made a book about car paint jobs. Then perhaps lets say you took perhaps 20 or so differnt Ferrari models then use photoshop or other artistic programs and made hundreds of fictional paint jobs on these cars. Then you publish this book and sale it for profit. Just for argument sake lets say you took the 20 original pictures of the Ferrari yourself. Let me ask the following questions.

1. I do not see why Ferrari company should get one damn dime from the
profits from your book. Except if you would have to pay some royalty
fee from using the word Ferrari in your book. Although we certainly
know that would not be the case. Could you imagine having to pay
something for everytime you mention that word.
2. In my opinion things of this scope really should have limited to no
involvement from the parent company.
3. Granted on a scale like GT, GT game makers use as much real info as
possible from the parent company. Therefore a business agreement
is agreed upon.
4. On the other hand lets say that you built you game using only the info
that you reasearched yourself with no involment with the company.
Then I would say that you should not have to get the Parent company
to sign off on the game. Or maybe there would only be some small
leagal fees or disclamers encluded in the game.
5. It would be nice is some one with sound knowdlege could summarize
the legaility or copyright issues involved in something like this.
6. I realize that GT game series is a multi million dollar business and
that strives to make sure that everything is as real as possible. Also
that having the actually car companies supply and back your game
even if just by word. Greatly adds to your claim of being the best.
In an agreement like this both parties will have much to gain.
Although really I think that car companies, tuner companies etc. have
more to gain and perhaps GT makers should make more use of this.
Major advertisement of all there cars and products represented in the
game. It sounds like GT5 will exapand on this. I think I read that you
could perhaps see some of the newest car models on the tracks, most
likely months before they are offered for sale.

 

[Dave A]

First of all if you published a book with photoshopped pictures of Ferrari's that you took then as long as you have the owner of that cars permission to use his car your generally fine. However the game developers are not buying a privately owned product ie Mr Jones Ferrari 355GTS from the autotrader, they are using a license to copy a product, they are not buying a product, they are buying the rights to copy a product for commercial use. They cannot do this without the license to. Comparing this to pictures in a book is not a valid comparison really, but the end of the day, to use thoes pictures in the book you still need the owners permission.

Now say you set up your own car company, and you really liked the Ferrari 599GTB, so you decided that your cars would look just like the Ferrari 599GTB, do you think that you wouldn't get sued to hell for breach of copyright. Likewise, creating a virtual model of the car and publishing it requires a license from the owner of the license, in this example it's Ferrari. There is absolutely no reason why I should be able to come up with a brilliant product and then for someone else to be able to copy it and claim he came up with the same idea himself and get away with that. It's my product, I patented it, I copyrighted it and I own the rights to any commercial use of that product.

Which takes things even further into the murky depths of legal jargon, terms, conditions and laws ect, commercial use or private use, take a DVD for example, it's perfectly legal for me to take one of the DVD's in my movie collections, rip it and burn it onto a blank disk for my own private use. Now if I take that copy and try to sell it, it is no longer for private use, it is commercial use and now I'm using someone elses product for my own financial gain without paying any rights to the owner of that products copyrights and I am now breaking the law.