So it looks like we're gonna get a paintshop?

[Deathclown66]

1. I do not see why Ferrari company should get one damn dime from the profits from your book. Except if you would have to pay some royalty fee from using the word Ferrari in your book. Although we certainly know that would not be the case. Could you imagine having to pay something for everytime you mention that word.

A video game is considered a direct representation of the product, in this case the car. People are going to play, drive, and experience the "Ferrari", in the game, and many will base real opinions on the actual car, so it is nothing like a book.

2. In my opinion things of this scope really should have limited to no involvement from the parent company.

Why not? It's their car, and they are being represented, as is their product, and they want a good light shed on it, not negative.

3. Granted on a scale like GT, GT game makers use as much real info as possible from the parent company. Therefore a business agreement is agreed upon.

No, a "business agreement" (contract) is written, because Ferrari can, and will make money off of it.

4. On the other hand lets say that you built you game using only the info that you reasearched yourself with no involment with the company. Then I would say that you should not have to get the Parent company to sign off on the game. Or maybe there would only be some small leagal fees or disclamers encluded in the game.

It is a representation, and a copy, of an actual product, and therefore, they must get approval. The cost is dependant on the greed of the "parent company".

5. It would be nice is some one with sound knowdlege could summarize the legaility or copyright issues involved in something like this.

As I said, the Term "copyright" stems from the reservation of copy's, as in, "The right to copy". Gamemakers must copy cars for video games, if they are to look like them, and if they want to use their name, (Ferrari), they also must copy that name. Ferrari is the only company with the right to copy anything they have copyrighted. Howvere, they can sell their right of copy, to another company, for any form of trade they wish, which means, cash.

6. I realize that GT game series is a multi million dollar business and that strives to make sure that everything is as real as possible. Also
that having the actually car companies supply and back your game
even if just by word. Greatly adds to your claim of being the best.
In an agreement like this both parties will have much to gain.
Although really I think that car companies, tuner companies etc. have
more to gain and perhaps GT makers should make more use of this.
Major advertisement of all there cars and products represented in the
game. It sounds like GT5 will exapand on this. I think I read that you
could perhaps see some of the newest car models on the tracks, most
likely months before they are offered for sale.

It's basic economics. Supply vs. demand. There are many gamemakers that want copyrights, and all are willing to pay. It is not up to PD, how much other companys are willing to pay for copyrights, and if the makers of Test Drive, NFS, and others pay, for example, 100K per car, Ferrari isn't going to accept 50k from PD.
As for trying to pay less, PD already has, that is why the first 4 GT games were Ferrari-less, because PD would not pay up the cash required.


Now, as for why Ferrari wouldn't want custom paint, well, they probabley don't care, but it's something they can charge for, so unless PD wants to pony up the cash, it won't happen. Period.

^^^ yeah, what he said too.

 

[OZZYGT]

First of all if you published a book with photoshopped pictures of Ferrari's that you took then as long as you have the owner of that cars permission to use his car your generally fine. However the game developers are not buying a privately owned product ie Mr Jones Ferrari 355GTS from the autotrader, they are using a license to copy a product, they are not buying a product, they are buying the rights to copy a product for commercial use. They cannot do this without the license to. Comparing this to pictures in a book is not a valid comparison really, but the end of the day, to use thoes pictures in the book you still need the owners permission.

Now say you set up your own car company, and you really liked the Ferrari 599GTB, so you decided that your cars would look just like the Ferrari 599GTB, do you think that you wouldn't get sued to hell for breach of copyright. Likewise, creating a virtual model of the car and publishing it requires a license from the owner of the license, in this example it's Ferrari. There is absolutely no reason why I should be able to come up with a brilliant product and then for someone else to be able to copy it and claim he came up with the same idea himself and get away with that. It's my product, I patented it, I copyrighted it and I own the rights to any commercial use of that product.

Which takes things even further into the murky depths of legal jargon, terms, conditions and laws ect, commercial use or private use, take a DVD for example, it's perfectly legal for me to take one of the DVDs in my movie collections, rip it and burn it onto a blank disk for my own private use. Now if I take that copy and try to sell it, it is no longer for private use, it is commercial use and now I'm using someone else's product for my own financial gain without paying any rights to the owner of that products copyrights and I am now breaking the law.

Wow, all I can say is + Rep 👍 you basically stole the words from my mouth. Now I'll have to sue you for copyright infringement.








Ciao!

 

[Deathclown66]

Wow, all I can say is + Rep 👍 you basically stole the words from my mouth. Now I'll have to sue you for copyright infringement.

First off, he said it first, while I was still typing, so technically, I am the only one guilty of copyright infringment.
second, you stole the words "you stold the words out of my mouth", out of my mouth, so you're just an overly infringing ......

 

[Mr Fox]

The problem with the GT series in reguards to Racing paint jobs, is that PD often dont include the paint job/decals of the racing team that you prefer.

Like take for instance the AUDI R8, in GT4 we just get the standard factory racing team paint job, but what about the other racing teams that use the R8, they were not included (probably due to time constraints)

By giving the user the ability to customise their vehicles paint job and decals, that would/could give the user the ability to add the many differant racing teams to the game that PD simply didnt have time to add.



^^^ give player the options/features in the Paintshop so they can recreate paint jobs like the one above.

Another possible up side to the paintshop would be that PD wouldnt have to spend god knows how much time and resources to creating 5+ racing team paint jobs per car, freeing up time and resources to consentrait on other aspects of the game like the physics engine, more models, better sounds.

Lets say your a Mclauren F1 fan, but sadly PD didnt include your favorite race teams colours, you would be gutted especially if you follow that specific team.
But By adding a Paintshop to GT5/HD that problem would no longer exist, as you could just paint your Mclauren just like your favorit team, Problem solved!!!!

So what if some asshat wants to paint his car up like something out of "fast & Furious" who cares, the only person that would look dumb would be that person, it wouldnt reflect my tastes, nor would it reflect onto Gran Turismo, I dont care if someone else wants giant flames down the side of his car, because i will be to busy looking at my cool paint job and the other "well designed" paint jobs.

What gets me is that some people seem to come to the conclusion that adding a paintshop and decal editing = Max Power ricing or NFS!!! IT DOESNT!!!

Every JGTC, FIA GT1, F1, ect ect, team in racing has its own unique Paintjob, if one is allowed to create ones own team with future GT games, it stands to reason it should have a unique paintjob/Decals.

So what if some people make a total joke out of their car, that only makes me laugh that bit more loudly as i overtake them online.

 

[Mr Fox]

Maby if the paintshop mode is good enough that people can recreate the paintjobs of racing teams, It could become one of GT's most populare features.

If so PD/Sony perhaps could set up a website for players to Upload/Download user made Paintjobs, that would be a major selling point imo.

People could connect to an official website via the PS3 or even whilst in GT5 paintshop mode, and download custom user made paintjobs.

That would save many players a huge amount of time, for instance lets say the user is after a specific paintjob for his Mclaren F1 GTR like the "Gulf" color scheme



He could go to the site, select the car type, then check the list of avalible user made paintjobs for that model, chances are if its a populare color scheme it will be there, if not make it yourself, then upload the colour scheme onto the site for others to download.

Adding a feature like this would add a whole new dimension to the Gran Turismo frachise, and im sure would prove a very populare feature.

There are loads of racing teams out there far to many for PD to cover alone, it makes perfect sence to give the fans the opportunity to add the thousands of differant racing teams color schemes to game, thats something PD just doesnt have the time to do.

 

[Robin]

I havent read totally through all the stuff in this thread but basically theonly thing I envyed in Forza was the stupidly high level of paintwork customisation where if you were clever you could create real race cars liverys. If PD and just gonna to allow you to simply change the colour and maybe stick a number on the side thats gonna be seriously dissapointing!... But I guess has not had such a thing so far so I guess it cant be a missed feature.... but man it would be great if it outdid Forza in this area.....

Robin

 

[JohnBM01]

An interesting touch I've learned about Forza 2 is that you can be able to edit skins from cars in Forza to your computer. You can then use your favorite paint program to make your wicked creations. I think PD should look into a feature like this just to compete with Forza 2 in this department. Popular paint programs include Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, The Gimp, Paint.net (haven't used because I was supposed to download some extra stuff just to get it to work), and that sort of thing. Unless you think Microsoft Paint rules all.

 

[Tenacious D]

Maby if the paintshop mode is good enough that people can recreate the paintjobs of racing teams, It could become one of GT's most populare features. If so PD/Sony perhaps could set up a website for players to Upload/Download user made Paintjobs, that would be a major selling point imo.

That hadn't occured to me. I was thinking old school, of people offering things point to point, person to person from their PS3s, but that's the cool thing about living "in the future," that the possibilities are simply staggering.

I need to redo some of my pics taken of my Forza creations as the server at forzacentral.com ate a bunch of people's files. I could do that this evening perhaps. Some of the cars on their site are simply stunning, both recreated and original. Forza is the only real competition to Gran Turismo that I'm aware of, and they've done an admirable job of adding in features to make it a desireable racing game.

Polyphony will undoubtedly be looking at ways to try and one up Turn 10 and Forza 2 with some of the offerings they have in store for their own sequel to Forza, so GT HD can only benefit from this friendly rivalry. I've ended up spending as much time creating race car liveries as I have racing them, and if you browse the car images at http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=13
you will see some stunning art work and some extremely good looking race cars with not a spec of rice. One of the artists in particular is a Brit named Duff Man D, and he has some of the best looking serious racecar liveries there. With the possible exception of one or two cars, if any, all his cars are done with the in game paint editor. You can see his gallery beginning here:
http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=13&userid=4198

Enjoy. Some of these artists are so good, they're accused of hacking or using Photoshop, but the basic paint editor in Forza is so powerful that you can manage to do some things that look Photoshopped, and I've never failed to scrape together a good looking racing paint job.

 

[kjb]

Great link Tenacious D. Some of the cars look killer. I sincerely hope PD has paid attention to Forza and they attempt to copy the paintshop thingy. That greatly enhances replay value (for me anyway). The one thing I truly enjoy in the street racing games is coming up with great paint jobs. Also the idea of having users have their designs available online is good too.

 

[buickgnx88]

looking at the cars in that link make me want paintshop even more...it also makes me want to be able to change wheel and tire size

 

[JohnBM01]

This is a great chance to fuel the creative spirit. I've thought of another reason why this painting deal would be great- no one wants to race the same car... with the same colors... with uninteresting people online. The only exception would be people who have created a team car. An example is if you have painted your car a certain way, then a friend of yours has a similarly-painted car with a little distinction. Think back to GT1. Every last race car and race-modified car had two color schemes to them. Take the Castrol Toyota Supra GT in GT1, for example. You had one white car with red and green accents. The other alternative color was white with red and blue accents. There was even a third Castrol Toyota Supra GT painted up in black with red and green accents. Or think about cars like the Buick Grand National from the 1980s. Only came in black. How can you tell one team car from another? It's why I say that I'm not fond of black all the time. Perhaps I haven't grown up in the realm of muscle cars because I got into cars from the tuner scene. Tuner types know that they want their car to stand out from others even if the car of choice is crap to begin with. At least it was a different car regardless of performance and power. At least someone made an ordinary car as THAT PERSON'S car. That is all I think this boils down to. Making your car in the game YOUR car. You can range your style from plain to extravagant. An example of this is to imagine two people have identical 1995 Ford Mustangs. One person simply puts on some racing stripes and is basically done with the car. No need to be downplayed or labeled as a "ricer." Then the other person puts on a variety of vinyl decals on the side of the 'Stang as well as a racing stripe across the car. It all depends on your own personal style. I grew up as an art person. So I know the power of creativity about as good as anyone else. Some people will say that they don't want to "rice" their car out or have a "ricer" style car design. But it all comes down to your personal style. If you want to paint up a car in brown with the Louis Vitton accents all over the body of the car, that's your call. If you want to paint up a message saying, "Save Skylines.. buy a Mustang," that's your call again. It doesn't matter how you want to paint up your car or how people will perceive your car compared to others. It's why I say that this is a step towards making your car YOUR car. Even with the option of adding a rear wing to my cars in GT4 (those that can be modified with one), I still don't feel like I've completely built up a race car. Take my Aston Martin DB8 or DB9. I'd love to make it my own Prodrive Aston Martin DBR9 with British Racing Green and yellow/gold accents. I'd also like to take my most frequently-used automobiles to make race cars out of, or at least paint them up in whatever color scheme I'd like to use.

This aspect is important to me because I am an art person. I think the first thing you notice about a car is its outside. So why not have a nice outside? A paint shop option for GTHD and GT5 would be the first step in getting people to actually stick with their cars and make them special. Most of my peers would normally talk about character and stuff. Like I almost completely ripped the Dodge Caliber for two reasons: (1) you replace the Neon with THIS?!, and (2) they replaced a wonderfully-designed compact with a more SUV-like hatchback. I've been a style person. And that's just me. But I generally feel that this is as special to have in a game as Photo Mode. Not asking for too much now, isn't it?