So what's new Physics wise?

[Ardius]

I'm guessing its not normal to complete the Lotus Top Gear challenge by overtaking 1st place at Hammerhead on the 2nd lap?
If you lot can't get a handle on the tyres, my advice is - slow down, minimise your steering and throttle inputs, only apply power when you are straight, etc. Many of the corners at the Top Gear track are faster if you go slower, which you should surely know if you watch the show regularly. Its really not that difficult a challenge if you take the time to learn the car and track. You don't need to be too crazy overtaking people, just do it on the straights in the braking zones, most of the field (up to 6th) can be overtaken in the 1st lap quite easily just because they are braking early to avoid each other. So as long as you find a line around them, you can outbrake them easily. The only real problem corner with that car and tyre combination is the first corner as you have to brake and turn in at the same time, which always reaches the limits of the tyres.

That said, its still difficult to win with no mistakes. But its not impossible, there are far harder challenges in this game. I totally disagree with the comments about it being unrealistic, I think some of you are too used to using racing slick tyres on all your cars.

 

[RedBaron]

People, try Top gear challenge with Lotus 111R.

It is imposible to complete that without left foot breaking, Hell&toe and countering at the same time ! (G25)

By the way i just love top gear track. Probably the best track i have ever played. People from lotus created miracle !

I mean realy.

That is really ridiculous, like tyres were made from paper. You can even drift when engine is at idle )

Other cars aren't that bad. I have been driving gallardo on Le Mans / Weather Change / Daytime change and it was marvelous experience!

 

[bodger]

I did the lotus top gear challenge last night - took me 2 hours to do it. In the end I had turn all the assists on.

I don't think its the driving model itself - its the tyres they put on for this test: comfort HARD - probably the worst set in the game. I'm sure if you bought the car in the dealer menu and used even the standard tyres it would be fine.

 

[CoolColJ]

I finally got around to playing GT5

Anyway, it does feel better with a controller than GT5rologue and the Time Trial, but the physics with a wheel don't feel as good as I remebered the Time Trial feeling, in general, but the sliding/drifting feels better. It feels more like Prologue felt with a wheel FFB wise - strange :/

Driving in the wet doesn't really feel like driving in the wet so far on the few dynamic weather tracks I've tried.

I have the FFB at maximum and it still doesn't feel like it's enough...Whereas in the Time Trial, FFB at 5 was plenty! Something has changed, but not all good it seems...

Was hoping for GT5 to be like what I got in the Time Trial, but improved. I could play the TT back to back with iRacing and it still felt good, but just a little bit more numb in FFB. So in many ways I'm glad I did get a PS3 to experience the Time Trail to feel what might have been

I'll see how things feel tomorrow after a good night's sleep.
But it seems going from the Standard/Pro physics division to a unified Physics engine has diluted the experience of the Pro Physics side
I definitely remember the Time Trial being a lot more detailed and nuanced in feel, and Force Feedback a lot more sharp and crisp feeling, apart from the snappy tyre model that is

I hope the next 2 planned updates roll back the physics engine to what PD did in the Time Trial, but with the better tyre model they had going in the demos. Did they change it because of having to incorporate the AI and damage engine reducing available CPU power?

 

[mrlizard]

Wait, you can't adjust bias??

The rear kickin out is a symptom of overly rear brake bias, being rear wheel drive will make it worse if you're engine braking, but you should be able to tune the bias to balance out brake induced oversteer.

In RL in my car we have experienced a couple of factors with brakes. Braking with more front end grip can have the same effect as too much rear bias, the rear wheels dont have to lock for the back to overtake the front.

This vid is me with the ABS on but with a Dry weather setup (conditions changed ABS is on a relay switch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IhVY1BLzEo

Without ABS in the wet ive found the car tracks in a straight line when the wheels lock, in the dry the calipers are more likely to snatch wheels individually.

This is of course only in my experience - 320bhp race spec 350z currently on slicks but in the vid we were using 10.5" cut slicks on the rear and 9.5" front..

 

[WolfRacer543]

In RL in my car we have experienced a couple of factors with brakes. Braking with more front end grip can have the same effect as too much rear bias, the rear wheels dont have to lock for the back to overtake the front.

Yeah, the rear wheels dont have to lock at all. Too much rear bias is basically generating more available cornering front end grip relative to the rear, that's why it has a similar effect. With lots of rear bias, the rear tyres end up on the "longitudinal" side of friction ellipse, so even if they haven't locked, they dont have much lateral grip remaining in order to change direction, whilst the fronts aren't as heavily loaded in the longitudinal direction, so they have more lateral grip available... amplified by the fact weight transfer puts more normal load on the front tyres, giving them even more potential for lateral grip.

End result, fronts have lots of lateral grip and want to corner quickly while the rears want to keep going in a straight line, overtaking the front even if they haven't locked.

Nice car BTW I dont have much driving experience, only worked on the Aero package of a small open wheeler which was driven by someone else.

 

[mrlizard]

Yeah, the rear wheels dont have to lock at all. Too much rear bias is basically generating more available cornering front end grip relative to the rear, that's why it has a similar effect. With lots of rear bias, the rear tyres end up on the "longitudinal" side of friction ellipse, so even if they haven't locked, they dont have much lateral grip remaining in order to change direction, whilst the fronts aren't as heavily loaded in the longitudinal direction, so they have more lateral grip available... amplified by the fact weight transfer puts more normal load on the front tyres, giving them even more potential for lateral grip.

End result, fronts have lots of lateral grip and want to corner quickly while the rears want to keep going in a straight line, overtaking the front even if they haven't locked.

Nice car BTW I dont have much driving experience, only worked on the Aero package of a small open wheeler which was driven by someone else.

certainly is a balancing act, stuck it in the gravel at brandshatch last week after deciding braking was for wimps... pit crew wernt that happy with me they spent 2 hours clearing stones out of the car

thats one advantage of GT5 at least, now if they would only sort out the neutral shifting problem

 

[HaylRayzor]

Someone's got to say it... the Boson-Higgs particle mechanism?

Hard to call that new, when it's been around since a millisecond after the Big Bang...

Only one answer to the OP's question. What's new Physics wise? Nothing.

 

[Anes]

CoolColJ just rank up to level 15 and see what you think then. I'm certain the physics change in the top tier categories. I actually had an unintended fishtail/tank slapper at 60km/h :s

@ bodger, I'm not technologically smart enough for computers. Plus they're too expensive

 

[phil-t]

Good call on the brake bias, I tried various levels of ABS and then turning ABS off, the default 5/5 brake bias is just totally wrong.. Hopefully PD could set this to something realistic, for the car I tested (Alfa GTV3.0), 7/3 for F/R bias seemed optimal, not sure if this vastly differs car to car, but it makes the braking pretty lively buy doesn't upset the rear end much at all.

They need to either get the defaults right (bit of an oversight no doubt), or at the very least allow Arcade mode/Online cars have adjustment of the brake bias.

I am just getting over the initial mental block that using a small amount of ABS/TCS does yield quicker laptimes in even quite moderate cars, I'd really prefer TCS/ABS to be on/off choices and 'On' makes them a little heavy handed so there is some 'penalty' to using them, but then I'm probably like most of you, I personally prefer to use no assists as a matter of course and to test myself.

 

[CoolColJ]

Good call on the brake bias, I tried various levels of ABS and then turning ABS off, the default 5/5 brake bias is just totally wrong.. Hopefully PD could set this to something realistic, for the car I tested (Alfa GTV3.0), 7/3 for F/R bias seemed optimal, not sure if this vastly differs car to car, but it makes the braking pretty lively buy doesn't upset the rear end much at all.

They need to either get the defaults right (bit of an oversight no doubt), or at the very least allow Arcade mode/Online cars have adjustment of the brake bias.

I am just getting over the initial mental block that using a small amount of ABS/TCS does yield quicker laptimes in even quite moderate cars, I'd really prefer TCS/ABS to be on/off choices and 'On' makes them a little heavy handed so there is some 'penalty' to using them, but then I'm probably like most of you, I personally prefer to use no assists as a matter of course and to test myself.

You can adjust the brake bias on the track if you access the RA menu function. It's already assigned to the big dial and -/+ keys on the DFGT. For everything elese you'll need to assign it. You can use another control pad to do it off course.
Just watching, the tyre meter, setting it at 5:3 makes the front lock before the rears

CoolColJ just rank up to level 15 and see what you think then. I'm certain the physics change in the top tier categories. I actually had an unintended fishtail/tank slapper at 60km/h :s

Well the F40 is still really hard to drive already, but the whole feel of the physics just do not feel as detailed.
On the other hand driving the black Mustang Trans Cammer should be hairy around Suzuka and it's actually easier to drive than the 370z in the Time Trial!

 

[Perkel]

You can adjust the brake bias on the track if you access the RA menu function. It's already assigned to the big dial and -/+ keys on the DFGT. For everything elese you'll need to assign it. You can use another control pad to do it off course.
Just watching, the tyre meter, setting it at 5:3 makes the front lock before the rears



Well the F40 is still really hard to drive already, but the whole feel of the physics just do not feel as detailed.
On the other hand driving the black Mustang Trans Cammer should be hairy around Suzuka and it's actually easier to drive than the 370z in the Time Trial!

Trans-Camer is like Morrrison Corvete. New technology with old engine in old shell.

From your quote:

" but the whole feel of the physics just do not feel as detailed."
You mean GT experience or maybe some PC sims ? If GT it is best know physic and FFB. If PC then i think it's on par with LFS (FFB) but inferior to iRacing.

As for rFactor FFB it realy depend on mods. One time i drove golf (eu) mk3 GT 1.8 (i had it IRL) and it drove fantastic with almost the same FFB as IRL year later i downloaded some mod and FFB was horrible. That is i don't like rFactor as a simulator. Too much searching for good mods.

As for GT5 physic and FFB is way more realistic than last time (GT4 GT5P) and by GT7 () Kaz could give us close to real console sim.

I wonder what if whole Kaz team can focus only on 100 cars. We wouldn't be here talking about physic or FFB. Everything comes with Time
and i'm actually stuned that Kaz and his team still are trying to improve physic etc. I mean Sony is big corporation and want money so the more people buy game the more they earn. So constantly improving physic etc. will end with increasing game dificulty and that will confuse cassual players.

We obviously strive for better experience but is hard to not give Kaz 👍 for his work. Hope he can atleast find his hardware to put his all hearth into. We know that sounds aren't so geat sometimes or standard car confused us in therms of quality but with GT5 he actually in my opinion listened to us.

One of my dreams in therm of simulation racing was driving at night nring in rain. Next was good online. I have a blast with both ! I wonder what he will improve till GT6

uhh sorry for OT but drunk-writing sometimes goes way it shouldn't

cheers 👍

 

[atlop]

To CoolColJ: My feeling about the TT exactly!

CoolColJ just rank up to level 15 and see what you think then. I'm certain the physics change in the top tier categories. I actually had an unintended fishtail/tank slapper at 60km/h :s

I so hope you are right. Would be a really strange game design though.

 

[phil-t]

To CoolColJ: My feeling about the TT exactly!


I so hope you are right. Would be a really strange game design though.

I don't think it does, I've got a reference car/track (MP24-12C on Suzuka) and the handling model and laptimes are the same as they have always been (Upto Lvl 17 now)

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

CoolColJ just rank up to level 15 and see what you think then. I'm certain the physics change in the top tier categories. I actually had an unintended fishtail/tank slapper at 60km/h :s

@ bodger, I'm not technologically smart enough for computers. Plus they're too expensive

Starting to think this may be correct. GT5 demo did feel slightly different in a better way....or is it just my imagination...?
The more I play the more forgiving it feels.

 

[innsiadrifter1]

i think physics/ffb when racing both tarmac and gravel are great,using g25 atm, only bad stuff is i dont think the ffb when u catch a drift with a rwd is any realistic at all, and with my g25 i gotta "oversteer" in any corner when racing(because of the wheel deadsone,i do a bit of racing in real life on gravel and tarmac tracks and i gotta say that part is wery good ingame, allso do some drifting in real life(s14a) but it "feels" totally diffrent from ingame. im thinking of buying the fanatec wheel instead of g25,does the wheel lock work good?

 

[Schwarzenegger]

Quick question. Has anyone here tried both the DFGT and the G27? If, is it worth upgrading and does the G27 feel smoother and is it less noisy?

 

[Nielsen]

I play with a Dual Shock 3 and I'm happy with the new physics. Cars do not slide weirdly around anymore because of the improved tire simulation and the weight distribution also feels improved. Being fast in Prologue required that we learned the physical laws of the game whereas GT5 just feels more natural and intuitive.
Rally and karting feel empty though.

 

[otago]

Much better than Prologue, now it compete with Forza 3

Far behind Forza 2 and Shift, but physics never was a main point of Gran Turismo series (and AI even less)

 

[Anes]

Much better than Prologue, now it compete with Forza 3

Far behind Forza 2 and Shift, but physics never was a main point of Gran Turismo series (and AI even less)

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[MagpieRacer]

Much better than Prologue, now it compete with Forza 3

Far behind Forza 2 and Shift, but physics never was a main point of Gran Turismo series (and AI even less)

Say what? Are you for real?

 

[Schwarzenegger]

Now that is one big troll.

 

[otago]

Say what? Are you for real?

What do you mean? By initial impressions GT5 reminds Forza 3 a lot, except it even harder to slid rear axe (and in Forza 3 it's really hard)

Forza 3 itself is Forza 2 lights in physics department, Porsche GT2 1995 on Nurburgring handles like Golf GTI - whatever mistake you make, you can fix it by slight wheel movement. I don't believe in this even a bit.

Of course it's only very initial impressions which could change drastically (but about Forza 3 - final)

 

[MagpieRacer]

Behind FM2 and shift? Physics not being a focal point of GT? Fool.

 

[boxox]

Say what? Are you for real?

One of the more entertaining sub-threads in here is:

"What's GT5 like?"

"Oh it's awesome!"

"Is it as good as GTR2?"

"It's a bit different. Sort of but not really."

"Oh. OK then."

"At least it's not Shift!"

"LOLOLOL!"

 

[otago]

Behind FM2 and shift? Physics not being a focal point of GT? Fool.

Well, GT4 was the worst game with label "simulator" ever made, even PGR feels like hardcore racing sim compare to this.

GT5 is infinitely better and it's hard to complain about physics. Though say Silvia is very notorious for tail happiness and if you drive it on some local track when wet most of the time you will put endless efforts to keep rear axe on leash. Doesn't feel so wild in game

 

[CoolColJ]

Perkel by this " but the whole feel of the physics just do not feel as detailed."
I mean how GT5 feels with a wheel compared to the the tuned and normal 370Z felt and reacted in the GT Academy time trial

 

[vas85]

Hahahah some of the posts about FM2 and Shift?kr2'3p09eke being better physics lol what a joke... try and even loop a car in Shift or anything it's just not possible.

But on a serious note, my current impression is that I feel more comfortable jumping from LFS on to Wakefield Park in a 6cylinder RWD car, but if it's true how the physics get more better as you progress in the levels then I'm sure it will be 95% there! Which is more than enough considering I get to race in dash view with my A70 Supra!

 

[vas85]

Well, GT4 was the worst game with label "simulator" ever made, even PGR feels like hardcore racing sim compare to this.

GT5 is infinitely better and it's hard to complain about physics. Though say Silvia is very notorious for tail happiness and if you drive it on some local track when wet most of the time you will put endless efforts to keep rear axe on leash. Doesn't feel so wild in game

I don't think you can say it was the worst game with the label simulator. FM2 and FM1 was the easiest game to drift in ever. As complete games they've always been the best package you can get overall. GT1 through to GT5. Their realism from each GT and even the fact that they actually look "realistic" where PGR, FM series etc all have the look of a game... not the look of realism.

 

[vas85]

Well, GT4 was the worst game with label "simulator" ever made, even PGR feels like hardcore racing sim compare to this.

GT5 is infinitely better and it's hard to complain about physics. Though say Silvia is very notorious for tail happiness and if you drive it on some local track when wet most of the time you will put endless efforts to keep rear axe on leash. Doesn't feel so wild in game

Try driving the 88 Turbo-A Supra on Tsukuba, and then have a look at any classic BMI video's (Best Motoring International) with Tsuchiya, Gansan and the others and you will see that this car in GT5 is as oversteer prone as it was in the BMI video's. Perfection.