So which upcoming/newly released wheel for you??

[Raitziger]

Or just for making some differentiation of different level products?

Microsoft does not allow out of normal specs design.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Actually, I don't like the process of changing the F1 rim of Thrustmaster, but I have no choice. So if the Fanatec products can improve this shorting, that would be better. I appreciate the quick release system of Fanantec very much, I don't understand why the CSR elite would like to choose another alternative rather using the original quick release system of the CSW. Doesn't it better? Using another way doesn't increase costs and make the producing process more complex? Or just for making some differentiation of different level products?

The inner cable connections using a quick release I guess won't be possible with MS... unless someone can DIY with an external cable using an aftermarket quick release system and pinning their own quick snap connector. Seems possible, but I won't need a quick release anyways, not if it adds $100 more bones on, cool feature but not all together neccessary for some people, who just want the "basic" advanced racing wheel

 

[chou1223]

The inner cable connections using a quick release I guess won't be possible with MS... unless someone can DIY with an external cable using an aftermarket quick release system and pinning their own quick snap connector. Seems possible, but I won't need a quick release anyways, not if it adds $100 more bones on, cool feature but not all together neccessary for some people, who just want the "basic" advanced racing wheel

Actually when you have two more rims, you will change them often more than you think now. For example, when I play the GT5, mostly I play with the original GT rim, and when I play the F1 2011, I always change to the Ferrali F1 wheel.
So, if it is more convinent for changing the rims, it would be better. And actually it is a lot of fun when you changing them.

 

[VWMasteR]

I don't understand why the CSR elite would like to choose another alternative rather using the original quick release system of the CSW. Doesn't it better? Using another way doesn't increase costs and make the producing process more complex? Or just for making some differentiation of different level products?

Too many people are complaining that the 2 wheels are already too similar... so I think it was left out on purpose to help distinguish CSW from the CSR Elite.

 

[lemansfanatic]

That and the price. The csr elite is the same price as the clubsport minus the wheel, so for $500 you can have a wheel with rim already on the Elite, or just the base of the clubsport which means you'd have to add on another $150 for one of the rims. You're saying, whats another $150? well to some, thats a lot considering how much they already have to save to afford a wheel like the Elite, so they compromise on things like quick release as long as it feels just as good as the CSW once its mounted. I'll figure out how to mod mine with a quick(er) release if it bothers me down the line, just like i'll add a shift light to it. But I can use the $150 I saved by buying the Elite and buy a set of Elite or clubsport pedals for it (haven't decided yet). Then down the road, if Xbox 720 comes out and decides to continue using XID or HID whatever its called protocol on their forcefeedback, I can download a new driver for it, and it'll live on!

 

[lemansfanatic]

Actually when you have two more rims, you will change them often more than you think now. For example, when I play the GT5, mostly I play with the original GT rim, and when I play the F1 2011, I always change to the Ferrali F1 wheel.
So, if it is more convinent for changing the rims, it would be better. And actually it is a lot of fun when you changing them.

I'm the type of player who doesn't switch back and forth two frequently, either I'll play forza for a couple weeks straight, or I'll get on an F1 kick and play that, so switching quickly isn't for everyone even though granted it is COOL! Hell, its really cool, and the no XBOX support is the ONLY reason I'm not getting a CSW.

Now, does anyone have an idea, when I can order an Elite?

 

[LogiForce]

Too many people are complaining that the 2 wheels are already too similar... so I think it was left out on purpose to help distinguish CSW from the CSR Elite.

Actually it's due to Technical restrictions. The Xbox does not support hot swap during the game. Just watch the video below from 3:10 and on.

 

[lemansfanatic]

Excellent video, just answered a bunch of my questions. Thanks Logi, and Thanks Thomas! Neat to see how easy the wheel comes off, there will be something good coming down the pipeline to mount on that base for sure!

 

[chou1223]

Actually it's due to Technical restrictions. The Xbox does not support hot swap during the game. Just watch the video below from ...

If it is because the Xbox doesn't support the hot swap function, it's needless to cancel the quick release system. It's just need to tell the consumer before you take off the rim, please turn off your console first, then take off the rim.

It's actually needless to take away the good and convinent design. So stupid.
It only complicated the production line and cost much. Every rim has to be modified, and the storage has to be doubled.

 

[LogiForce]

If it is because the Xbox doesn't support the hot swap function, it's needless to cancel the quick release system. It's just need to tell the consumer before you take off the rim, please turn off your console first, then take off the rim.

It's actually needless to take away the good and convinent design. So stupid.
It only complicated the production line and cost much. Every rim has to be modified, and the storage has to be doubled.

As I said, watch the video. It's not only that and I don't feel like quoting Thomas when I post a video in which he speaks of the reasons himself. *sigh*
Hot plugging was just one of the reasons.

 

[Caz]

Chouu dont you think if fanatec could have released one high end wheel instead of two they would have? Beating the issue is not going to get things changes. We understand you want the best of both worlds, as do many. Be thankful the xbox is getting a really high end wheel at all considering what seems like very tough restrictions put on 3rd party peripheral manufacturers.

 

[chou1223]

Chouu dont you think if fanatec could have released one high end wheel instead of two they would have? Beating the issue is not going to get things changes. We understand you want the best of both worlds, as do many. Be thankful the xbox is getting a really high end wheel at all considering what seems like very tough restrictions put on 3rd party peripheral manufacturers.

All compromised outcome, just like politics, right? 👎

 

[LogiForce]

All compromised outcome, just like politics, right? 👎

All prejudice just like an ignorant fool, right? 👎

You can't do more if the capabilities of the hardware you connect the wheel to aren't there, or you're bound by licensing regulations. Breaching either would make it impossible to make a wheel that would work with the xbox.

 

[Fanatec...]

The CSW does not have to be approved by anybody while the CSR E will go through intensive testing and has to follow strict principles of MS.

And this is a good thing! MS makes sure that all peripherals will work with all games and not just a few or only if the game gets an update. A console is about plug and play and this requrires strict rules to follow. Microsoft has made several changes to their protocol because of us to support 900°, h-pattern shifter, clutch and analog handbrake so they already have been very flexible.

But on the CSW we did not want to have any restrictions whatsoever so we are free to make any wheel rim we like with almost unlimited functions.

 

[LogiForce]

Thomas, welcome back! Hope things are getting a bit less hectic over there.

I agree, it's a good thing to have a standard for consoles. Also I believe you mentioned this earlier but isn't the XID protocol not driverless as well? At least game developers don't have to worry about them. I believe you mentioned something like that a while back. So that makes it truly plug and play.

I am glad to see that MS has been so kind as to make changes as not having 900° is a disapointment, but what will this mean for older games like Forza 3 for example? Will it get updated as well to be so to say properly compliant with the new XID protocol rules on wheels? Since Forza 4 just got an update as well I reckon it's game side changes that need to be made and not so much console side.

About the testing of the CSW vs the Elite, I don't know what they contain but is it possible that to some extend these tests (or some of them) can be also be used to properly test the CSW? Either by inside testing or via Beta and Community testers.

On another note, I am surprised that MS made changes for the shifter for example. But the bigger surprise is that TM wasn't even able to get sequential to work in GT5. Which I found amusing to be honest and I reckon you to, as it should be just as simple as mapping a button to it.

I wonder if we'll see Sony come up with some standards for their next console like MS. It would be wise from a plug&play and compatibility point of view. Also the driverless design of XID is perfect as you will know your xbox compatible product will always work. With the playstation it's a matter of trying.
It's that Logitech made the first FFB wheel (correct me if I am wrong) with an SDK for consoles which became populair, hence all their wheels since work on the playstation. Or so I believe as I can't find another explanation.
On that note, with the CSW is Fanatec going to make an SDK for it or will it still just rely on the SDK of Logitech or Thrustmaster?



Sorry... I type too much sometimes.

 

[AGP5000]

But on the CSW we did not want to have any restrictions whatsoever so we are free to make any wheel rim we like with almost unlimited functions.

Music to my ears!

 

[LogiForce]

Music to my ears!

I hope it's good music and not something like Justin Bieber. lol
Anyhow, I certainly need to get me a nice wheel to play Forza 4 with some day. The rumble feedback of the MS speed wheel is not enough for what I want to do in the game, namely drive precise and/or drift around corners cause I love doing that.

 

[Bigtheo]

I'm debating about the CSW to upgrade my now getting old DFGT, but I'm not sure with all the complaints I've seen on this site about the support from fanatec. I'd want to be more confident when spending that much money on a wheel (plus the pedals). My problem is I really like driving f1 style stuffs and rally style stuffs which are polar opposites in terms of wheels. I'd really like to have a rev indicator at least for the f1 esq driving and some sort of sequential stick for rallying.

 

[amf7]

you can buy a sequential shifter... and leds work on ps3 i think

 

[LogiForce]

I'm debating about the CSW to upgrade my now getting old DFGT, but I'm not sure with all the complaints I've seen on this site about the support from fanatec. I'd want to be more confident when spending that much money on a wheel (plus the pedals). My problem is I really like driving f1 style stuffs and rally style stuffs which are polar opposites in terms of wheels. I'd really like to have a rev indicator at least for the f1 esq driving and some sort of sequential stick for rallying.

At first you'll have to make due with the CSR shifter set until true ClubSport shifter is out, that is if it supports sequential.
Rev LEDs are on the GT and Formula rim and will work with PC and PS3. I reckon it will be compatible with the G27 profile on PS3 which has LEDs as well.

I don't know what to do about your confidence in Fanatec, all I can say is they are working to improve customer support constantly. Plus with every brand you'll find people that complain about it. So I am sure it's not just Fanatec, but the recent discussions here made it seem look bad. I am sure if you ask about TM or Logitech support issues you'll get to hear a fair share as well.

 

[BLACK86]

And this is a good thing! MS makes sure that all peripherals will work with all games and not just a few or only if the game gets an update. A console is about plug and play and this requrires strict rules to follow. Microsoft has made several changes to their protocol because of us to support 900°, h-pattern shifter, clutch and analog handbrake so they already have been very flexible.

but this doesnt mean your products will work correctly, you still have to get the game company to support your products too. i still cant get your 6 speed shifter to work with dirt 2 on the xbox

 

[ibuycheap]

but this doesnt mean your products will work correctly, you still have to get the game company to support your products too. i still cant get your 6 speed shifter to work with dirt 2 on the xbox

UH not exactly. The xbox 360 wheel spec from day 1 included 6 speed shifting. What you meant to say is you have to tell them to properly code their wheel support in general.

It just so happens that fanatec is the only wheel with a 6 speed shifter.

 

[BLACK86]

UH not exactly. The xbox 360 wheel spec from day 1 included 6 speed shifting. What you meant to say is you have to tell them to properly code their wheel support in general.

It just so happens that fanatec is the only wheel with a 6 speed shifter.

im not quite sure what you mean, are you saying this is a microsoft issue?

also im not understanding the bit about the microsoft wheel spec having six speed shifting included from day 1? were they planning to bring out a h-pattern shifter out for it or something? im confused

 

[LogiForce]

UH not exactly. The xbox 360 wheel spec from day 1 included 6 speed shifting. What you meant to say is you have to tell them to properly code their wheel support in general.

It just so happens that fanatec is the only wheel with a 6 speed shifter.

Not correct, read Thomas his post again. Only as of recently with Forza 4 MS has changed their support for wheels only recently. Providing support for 900 degree steering, H-shifters, clutch and progressive handbrakes.
So as I see it since Forza 4 had to be updated to support 900 degree wheel rotation, so will older games have to be if the companies can still be bothered by it. This is the same for the other added features as well like the H-shifter support.

Thomas could of course talk to Codemasters but if they are willing to release updates for older games, I doubt it since even Dirt 3 support got dropped including new DLC releases when F1 2011 was released.

 

[Bigtheo]

Oh I'm fully aware that the CSW will fit all of my purposes (although I haven't looked into the shifter, I'm sure there is one), the support is my big worry. Honestly I don't think I'd care too much for a 6 speed H pattern. The clubsport wheel does fit everything I need in a wheel: rev lights, adjustable amount of lock, paddle shifting and sequental stick. The changeable rims definately is a plus, quickchange or whateveritscalled isn't a must but nice, but my one question is when you change the amount of lock on the wheel is there a hard barrier ala the 200 degree mode in the driving force pro or does the wheel just stop responding after the set lock?

 

[12thgear]

My one question is when you change the amount of lock on the wheel is there a hard barrier ala the 200 degree mode in the driving force pro or does the wheel just stop responding after the set lock?

900 degrees is a physical limit imposed by the wheel. If you tune the wheel to anything less than that you're torque limited by the force feedback motor. You do get very strong resistance so you know when you've hit the steering lock, but with enough muscle you can overpower it.

 

[LogiForce]

What 12thgear said is correct. Although I reckon or at least it is more of a hope that due to the dual motor design it will be more difficult to overcome the torque lock.

I also want to add that Thomas said in one of the movies featuring either the CSW or Elite that the maximum lock of the wheel could easily increased from 900 degrees to 1080 degrees or more. This by making a thinner disc on the 'wormdrive' (which has Fanatec written in it when you look into the base). So you might see future upgrades if there is a demand or need for it.

 

[Bigtheo]

yeah I've seen the video with the locks and was wondering if the changing of degree mode would actually move the locks themselves or just add an artifical lock ala the 200 degree mode with the DFGT.

 

[LogiForce]

yeah I've seen the video with the locks and was wondering if the changing of degree mode would actually move the locks themselves or just add an artifical lock ala the 200 degree mode with the DFGT.

Technically a hardware lock of 200 degrees could be made just as well. It's just making the locking block or whatever bigger. Maybe we'll see a variety of locks over time, either via Fanatec or 3rd party. It's hard to tell right now as neither of the wheels have been released yet.

 

[lemansfanatic]

900 degrees is a physical limit imposed by the wheel. If you tune the wheel to anything less than that you're torque limited by the force feedback motor. You do get very strong resistance so you know when you've hit the steering lock, but with enough muscle you can overpower it.

Awesome, i was wondering that myself, thanks for the clarification. i would also be interested in a a hard lock at less than 900