Spa Endurance race 18/11 - Stock Lambos only

[chrisr1984]

, my car had reasonable pace

it obviously didnt.

 

[dhandeh]

Currently watching the part where Duck pulls out in front of you. yes, he pulled out when he wasn't supposed to. MISTAKES HAPPEN! From what I can see, he was trying to bring the car to a halt, when the curb altered the movement of the car. He then continued, by driving in the lane that would allow others to pass. BTW, if you had kept an eye out on what was happening in front of you, you wouldn't have hit Duck. Yes, he made a mistake pulling out way too early, but that mistake could have easily been avoided by yourself.

You continued to drive with some serious dmg, which isn't excatly the safest way to drive aye? Certainly put Chris at risk a couple of times. While it's true that the guy in front has the right to the racing line. When you'r edriving with that kind of dmg, you aren't doing anything but blocking the people behind you.
You're supposed to pit when damaged, so you don't pose a threat to other drivers.

And the race was 45 laps long! One crash is not necessarily going to cost you everything.

Of course mistakes happen, other races that I participate in, there is generally more awareness, of whats happening. Especially an incident on the 2nd lap, the pack will be close together, a little restraint should have been shown. I dont think I could have 'easily' avoided it to be honest, I was at full race speed, he was just coasting back on.

I was monitoring the pace of the car, it was handling reasonably well, if I thought I was a danger, I would have pulled over. I had one car behind me (chrisr, I think), for nearly half a lap, he was keeping his distance waiting, he would have quite easily passed when safe to do so, there was no incidents there. ACL,didn't wait and we know what happened!

As you say and I've said, it's a long race, just bide your time and the perfect opportunity will arise. If you force it, then it's only going to end one way.

 

[ACL_13]

, my car had reasonable pace

it obviously didnt.

saw it clearly when I was behind you and my overtake to you wasnt it fair? We were both carefull but competitive.I did see the accident before with you/him, braking far to early on purpose

 

[dhandeh]

Yes and you know on which porpuse you timed your entrance back.


So you state you had a good pace, and then you had to brake early due to damege? Sorry no capito!!!

I saw you from far behind and you were witing for me , just admit it man!


By the way I could do that corner half throttle 3rd gear, but I was 2nd gear and you hit the brakes

I said reasonable pace, not good pace.


I've explained what happened and apologised, if that's not good enough, well not much I can do about that.

Again, wait for an opportunity.

You sow it clearly when I was behind you and my overtake was faire to you wasnt it? We were both carefull.I did see the accident before with you/him, braking far to early on purpose

For the record, I was not braking early on purpose, I was braking for the conditions of the track,the car and the tyres. If people cannot show a little restraint for half a lap of a 45 lap race, then there is nothing I can do about that either.

Hypothetical point - If I'm braking earlier than you (which you have noticed), how about not get right behind me, maybe take a different line, then you will be passing me as you brake later.

Who won by the way!

 

[Jawehawk]

Of course mistakes happen, other races that I participate in, there is generally more awareness, of whats happening. Especially an incident on the 2nd lap, the pack will be close together, a little restraint should have been shown. I dont think I could have 'easily' avoided it to be honest, I was at full race speed, he was just coasting back on.
QUOTE]

Look, you're 100 percent right that Duck made a mistake. I'm not arguing that. But at your speed, you had a decent amount of time to switch driving lane. And all this is no reason for rage quitting.

 

[ACL_13]

I said reasonable pace, not good pace.


I've explained what happened and apologised, if that's not good enough, well not much I can do about that.

Again, wait for an opportunity.



For the record, I was not braking early on purpose, I was braking for the conditions of the track,the car and the tyres. If people cannot show a little restraint for half a lap of a 45 lap race, then there is nothing I can do about that either.

Hypothetical point - If I'm braking earlier than you (which you have noticed), how about not get right behind me, maybe take a different line, then you will be passing me as you brake later.

Who won by the way!

I tried to get a diferent line however to late, you were braking full, I had no chance to avoid i believe I had a car very near on the left, which I just tooked,, but the waiting at a corner its not ok,again lets move on.


This conpetition was great, congratulations however ruined by a corner waiter!

 

[iLLY89]

Yea what was the results?

 

[dhandeh]

I wish I had avoided him, unfortunately I didn't.

In hindsight, I shouldn't have left, so I apologise , but after two incidents, I believed it just wasn't meant to be.

I tried to get a diferent line however to late, you were braking full, I had no chance to avoid i believe I had a car very near on the left, which I just tooked,,

So you overtook a car on the right, had me right in front of you (which you had noticed braking earlier than what were), and you hit me.

but the waiting at a corner its not ok,again lets move on.

Ok, I've explained and apoloigised, agreed, lets move on.

This conpetition was great, congratulations however ruined by a corner waiter!

I though we had moved on, obviously not.

 

[Jawehawk]

Yea what was the results?

Well, had you stayed you would've known.

 

[dhandeh]

Well, had you stayed you would've known.

Can't argue with that!👍

 

[iLLY89]

Lol.. Fair enough jawehawk

 

[ACL_13]

When is going to happen a similar event, so we can have more fun, learning by doing:tup:

PS- if possible no DLC tracks

 

[Jawehawk]

All I have to say for now, is that we might do another event soon. Ideas that are currently up to debate are...

- A race on Le Sarthe with the 20.000.000 classics.
- A race with european cars from the likes of Mercedes and BMW.
- American muscle perhaps?
- Honda NSX.

I've decided not to go through the trouble of reporting anyone, as I don't think that will achieve anything... As to who is allowed in the next event(s), I'll post tommorow, after thinking it over.

Good night all. And thanks to those who stayed all the way through the event. Granted the 32 laps or so of rain was a bit much, it was still fun.

 

[iLLY89]

Mercedes and bmw

 

[ACL_13]

SLS or M3

 

[Jamie-C]

It's upto you to pass me, not for me to jump out the way. Racing normally involves, waiting for the right time to pass, not just expecting other people to jump out the way. I still had track position, my car had reasonable pace and I was planning on continuing my stint until the next pit.
I'm pretty sure you would have had different tyres to what I was running, so you need to take that into account, I would need to brake earlier, having full wets fitted.

If your car is considerably slower than the pack behind you due to damage then you should immediately get of the racing line and let them go by. What were you expecting to achieve by taking a defensive position? Your car was damaged, you had nothing to gain.

Well, had you stayed you would've known.

A bit harsh? In fairness he probably didn't know you had to buy a set of racing tyres too gain access to the wets, rules state at 20% surface water you must change to the intermediate tyre, so he would have been DQ'd instead.

I didn't like the way things were ran tonight, everything was dropped on us right at the last minute, no one knew what was going on. Not being able to practice properly wasn't a good thing, qualifying wasn't ran in the best way possible, what's wrong with the usual F1 style? Get out there and pump as many laps in as you like until your happy with your time? I was sitting twiddling my thumbs for about 40 mins before everyone completed there laps.

The race it self was good though apart from the obvious incidents, and then people posting messages during the race isn't a good idea.

I'll be around for another one though if theres one in the pipeline, we can learn from tonights events, work on what went wrong and why and build on that and the next one should work a lot smoother.

Finishing grid for the guys who are asking.
1st - GTP_JamieC2311
2nd - GTP_ChrisR1984
3rd - Zolon32
4th - Andy-Macnab
5th - johnwells69

 

[Duck]

About qualifying, I really don't get hte problem. It lasted 20 minutes, and that's not a whole lot. I definately agree with you that I should have informed people about how it was going to happen earlier, and that's my bad. That said, the only reason we even had qualifying was because other people wanted it. I had no interest in having it.

I'm sorry for misinterpreting what you said about qualifying format. I understood that the 2nd driver had to wait for the 1st to complete his flying lap.... so I expected it had to last 1 hour!!!! When you shout me with 'Go' I wasn't ready
Again, sorry for the accident. If you have the PAL replay, I'd like to see what happened there to avoid it in the future. I guess that if I let the car go straight to the barriers I shouldn't cross any opponent's way, and according rules, it's what all of you expected from me

Sorry but,

You are conplaining about me, I should be the one doing that, because you have break much before the corner and that is not OK. You ruined my race.

Remember that I was overtaking another car and you got in front full brakes and with a damaged car!!!

However Iam good enough to understand those things, you apparently dont! Lets move on

I'm not taking dhandes defenses on the overall thing, but he's right about early breaking. Not ramming an early breaker when approaching him it's your fault. It's different if you chase him for, say 4 laps, learning his breaking points and then he early brakes to put you in mistake. Don't forget different cars have also different braking power. The fact we almost were in the SV says nothing. If I'm not wrong Andy drove without ABS, which is a huge difference.

About the guy who waited you to ram you intentionally... no words.
I also have to report a side slam while I was damaged and off line, very far from accident point I mean. Why? The guy approached me in a narrow point, with two close corners. Exiting the second I immediatly went off line to let you pass. The side slam was free....

Come on: three contacts with former 2nd positioned driver and no one makes a step ahead claiming his responsability?

You're supposed to pit when damaged, so you don't pose a threat to other drivers.
And the race was 45 laps long! One crash is not necessarily going to cost you everything.

Again, I hoped dhandes followed me in pits. It happened with MattieM in practice races. He let me pass and had a wonderful fight after that until checkered flag
Winning it's not all. I wished to start with 15 opponents yesterday, just to be part of such a beautiful thing

......
I'll be around for another one though if theres one in the pipeline, we can learn from tonights events, work on what went wrong and why and build on that and the next one should work a lot smoother.

Finishing grid for the guys who are asking.
1st - GTP_JamieC2311
2nd - GTP_ChrisR1984
3rd - Zolon32
4th - Andy-Macnab
5th - johnwells69

Congratulations Jamie. You never said me you were so quick!!!
I did a 2 29 offline but that Pole was outstanding. You sure are D1 flesh for WRS, if you only like hotlapping
I'm happy with race start, in 3rd slot. Chris, 2nd, was in the outside and maybe the SV has a better start then the Gallardo. After, I tried following you through Eau Rouge and took your slipstream in Kemmel. You breaked a bit early and I tried inside. It wasn't a too late breaking and let you space in the outside of the first right...... but you was at apex on the inside
Obviously, in following 2 laps you showed another pace 👍
Nice win

Also your race analysis is very lucid.
It was my 1st serious online race, and I have to learn to be more 'iced' when do a mistake. Also, never did an online race without being damaged by someone. I hope to finish a race soon with a full functional car

Another point of debate: too long race for too few drivers?

Finally: I would be glad to continue with all people joined Spa. Knowing each other and competing after learning about our mistakes is priceless.

 

[dhandeh]

If your car is considerably slower than the pack behind you due to damage then you should immediately get of the racing line and let them go by. What were you expecting to achieve by taking a defensive position? Your car was damaged, you had nothing to gain.

I was assessing my pace, the two behind me were catching me up, I took my normal racing line, from les combes, I wasn't weaving or being defensive, just the normal line, chrisr, caught me up first and was waiting for the correct time to pass. Meanwhile, ACL got involved, in the action

On approaching pouhon (just under quarter of the lap from when we first were on the same bit of track, so any argument about me brake testing them is flawed), I was on the right hand side of the track,ahead of chrisr, who was behind me to the inside left. ACL has overtook chrisr to his left, so he is right behind me. I attempted to make the corner, which I couldnt because ACL creamed me from behind. Chrisr, didn't get involved because he waited.

Now, if ACL knew he was faster than me,(which he would have known as he said I was braking earlier) why attempt to overtake both vehicles approaching pouhon. There isnt enough room to do it, he should have filed in behind chrisr, through pouhon, where I was about to let them pass anyway. He could then continue his battle and we wouldnt be here. He gave me no chance to move aside. Remember they had just reached me, surely I have a right to see if I have enough pace to hold them off.

The way this has been made out, Is that I've held them up for 5 laps, weaving brake testing and ramming them off. Not quarter of lap, with different tyre compounds being used, with cars of different pace.

 

[Jawehawk]

A bit harsh? In fairness he probably didn't know you had to buy a set of racing tyres too gain access to the wets, rules state at 20% surface water you must change to the intermediate tyre, so he would have been DQ'd instead.

I didn't like the way things were ran tonight, everything was dropped on us right at the last minute, no one knew what was going on. Not being able to practice properly wasn't a good thing, qualifying wasn't ran in the best way possible, what's wrong with the usual F1 style? Get out there and pump as many laps in as you like until your happy with your time? I was sitting twiddling my thumbs for about 40 mins before everyone completed there laps.

Actually the rule was that you had to wait until surface water was 20% before being allowed to change tires. You were in no way forced to change. And as I recall, he was told he had to buy them, right before we started. Even so, it's a really poor excuse for quitting.

About practising. I must have spend a total of 15-20 hours in practice sessions where participants were allowed. So having just 30 minutes before the race to get your head in the game, shouldn't be a problem. The event evening was for the event. Not for practising. As I've already said, the qualifying was poorly done by me. Though it only lasted 20 minutes, not 40. If we have qualifying in our next events, we'll d it F1 style, as you proposed.

 

[Jawehawk]

Conclusion:

It seems like I lack the capacity of being strict... Or maybe I'm just too naive. So everyone is allowed in the next event, but if I see any quitting again, it's bye bye.

I'm working on the next event atm, and will probably have it posted later today.

 

[chrisr1984]

blurb

i actually remembered you braking early earlier on in the race causing me to pit for damage (i dont hold that against you, i braked expecting you to brake at the same place so it was my bad) but because of that when i saw you i remembered what happened, knew ACL was up my chuff (rear) so i let him past assuming you would brake early again on such a difficult corner there was no way he would be able to do anything, in a way i used him to get you both out of the way.

andy, i look forward to your next combo.

 

[Jawehawk]

Here's an idea for a race with European cars.

Cars allowed:
Aston Martin DB9
Alfa Romeo 8C
Audi R8 4.2L
BMW M3 and M5
Maserati Gran Turismo
Mercedes C63 and Mercedes SL55

All cars would be stock, and on sport tires. We need to get a lobby together to test how competitive the cars are. Anyone have time now by any chance?

 

[John Wells]

This sounds quite good, but I can't do any testing cause Ihave some kart races shortly. Which track are you thinking of?

 

[chrisr1984]

i can get on now

 

[Jawehawk]

This sounds quite good, but I can't do any testing cause Ihave some kart races shortly. Which track are you thinking of?

That's a good question. Some european track
Rome and Madrid seems to be ideal choices.

Room number for small testing is 1472-6118-3658-4756-2323

 

[dhandeh]

i actually remembered you braking early earlier on in the race causing me to pit for damage (i dont hold that against you, i braked expecting you to brake at the same place so it was my bad) but because of that when i saw you i remembered what happened, knew ACL was up my chuff (rear) so i let him past assuming you would brake early again on such a difficult corner there was no way he would be able to do anything, in a way i used him to get you both out of the way.

andy, i look forward to your next combo.

Very calculated, and effective!👍

 

[chrisr1984]

after the testing today here are some opinions on the cars after 5 laps in each. - i know the TVR wasnt in the line up but it meets regs quite well and has nearly the identical PP that the DB9 does.

Audi R8 4.2 - 1'33.085
I got this time without too much trouble, infact i think it was my first timed lap, tyres were solid all the way through and never really had any red tyres

Aston Martin DB9 - 1'33.527
It took me a while to get the time in this, i think lap 4 maybe, well car was heavy and the tyres namely the front drivers was wearing out like a good'un so not really something that would compete with the R8 over the course of a race.

TVR Tamora - 1'34.169
Quite an easy car to drive this one, it was quite a challenge to keep it under control but there was nothing hard about it, I actually tested this in the race so conditions were not the same, i got a puncture and then proceeded to set this time so i have no doubt that it would do a 1'33.xxx a great contender for the DB9 but i think with its overall easier drive it would batter the DB9 over the course of the race. Again it wouldnt compete with the R8

BMW M3 - 1'34.765
I do not like this car, very power oversteery and was a bit of a pig to keep undercontrol, but again nothing too challenging but no were near as easy as the DB9 and TVR. im not sure this would get into the 1'33's and stay competitive.

GranTurismo S - 1'35.156
Not really a great test this one if im honest, couldnt really string many laps together as i was talking on the phone and having to pit as i left it on hard tyres, i just got fed up, i am convinced that a mid 1'34 is easily achievable making it a M3 contender.

i didnt get to try the other cars as i dont have versions of them without some tweek, and since i dont have any money to buy any of them i cant test them.

on a side note, i watched the new clarkson video and saw he had the MP12-C against the 458 Italia and wondered if the two accompanied with a SLS would be a feasable race type. Just thinking out loud, could be a crap idea, i dont know if the cars are evenly matched.

on a 2nd side note, i wouldnt mind a day/night race too

 

[dhandeh]

The M3 and the SL55 require utmost concentration and finesse, and with the M3 this probably wont reward you with a decent consistent time.

The M5, is very easy to drive, very forgiving, as long as you dont stamp on the throttle, will quite easily achieve 1.33 laps.

The R8, only done 2 laps in it, and probably the easiest and fastest of the lot.

 

[Jawehawk]

OK, I'm just going to scratch the R8 out of the race. It's simply too damn good.
I suppose we could do a 15 lap race on the Ring, with full weather and a day/night change.

Cars that I tested besides those already mentioned:

C63: Great car, but it will try to kill you if you even think about applying more than 15% throttle during corners. Best lap I could manage with it was 1.38 I think. It's pretty damn fast on the straight, though.

SL55: Understeers quite a lot, but is in return, incredibly stable. Could pull consistent laps of 1.36, and could probably get it down by 1-2 secs.

 

[dhandeh]

Nurburgring, in the dark, when wet is a nightmare!