Space In General

[CodeRedR51]

Always stretch before flying!

Pre-flight checks in progress. Flight time TBD for Tuesday.

Edit: SpaceX has updated their site with info for the test flight.

https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/starship/index.html

 

[CodeRedR51]

Remaining residents of the Boca Chica village have been evacuated for the test. Looks like we've got a good chance of this going ahead on Tuesday.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Good breakdown of what might happen today.

 

[Dennisch]

Any news on when they light the candle?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Any news on when they light the candle?

They just finished some pre-flight testing. A group of cars went to the pad, I presume to do final checks and take the straps off the fins. I believe we're expecting it to launch mid afternoon CST.

 

[Keef]

I'm so curious to know what the final design of Starship will actually look like. Obviously this is a prototype but the seams and general fit and finish are hideous. If it works it works, but I hope it actually looks nice. It's easy to make a render pretty and smooth.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm so curious to know what the final design of Starship will actually look like. Obviously this is a prototype but the seams and general fit and finish are hideous. If it works it works, but I hope it actually looks nice. It's easy to make a render pretty and smooth.

Welds are getting better with each iteration. Pretty sure they're going with robotic welds soon if they haven't done so already. Elon said the "pucker" effect from welding the rings together will diminish over time.

 

[Dotini]

By the late tomorrow a solar flare and CME could begin to have affects on Earth. Disruptions could occur to some networks.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Should be getting very close. Flaps are unstrapped, inspections are done. Tank farm is starting to show some activity. I'd say we're within an hour to liftoff.

Edit: should have launch around 4:05 CST.

 

[CodeRedR51]

4:30 CST, so in 10 minutes.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Abort, standing down. Looks like they hit the go button and something refused to work right.

 

[Dotini]

Expect some networks, possibly including Playstation, to be disrupted in the coming days.
From today's edition of spaceweather.com:

EARTH-DIRECTED SOLAR FLARE AND CME (UPDATED): Sunspot AR2790 is more potent than it looks. On Dec. 7th (1632 UT), the relatively small spot unleashed a C7-class solar flare and hurled a CME toward Earth. Extreme ultraviolet cameras onboard NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory recorded the explosion:



A pulse of X-rays from the flare ionized the top of Earth's atmosphere, causing a minor shortwave radio blackout over South America (map). Affected frequencies were mainly below 10 MHz. Ironically, the flare itself was a source of strong radio emissions. Ham radio operators may have heard a 'roar' of solar static during the blackout.

UPDATE: The explosion also hurled a coronal mass ejection (CME) toward Earth. Coronagraph images from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) show a halo CME leaving the sun a few hours after the flare:

Note: The bright 'stars' to the right of the sun are Mercury (top) and Antares (bottom)

NOAA analysts have modeled the storm cloud; their results confirm that it will likely reach Earth during the second half of Dec. 9th. En route to our planet, the CME will scoop up some slower-moving material from an unrelated solar wind stream. The combined impact could spark geomagnetic storms as strong as category G3, although lesser G1- to G2-class storms are more likely.

This is NOT a major space weather event. But after 3 years of uber-quiet Solar Minimum, it is noteworthy. If a strong geomagnetic storm materializes, auroras could be sighted in northern-tier US states from Maine to Montana to Washington. Stay tuned! Aurora alerts: SMS Text.

 

[Famine]

Expect some networks, possibly including Playstation, to be disrupted in the coming days.

Why do you do this?

a C7-class solar flare ... could spark geomagnetic storms as strong as category G3, although lesser G1- to G2-class storms are more likely ... This is NOT a major space weather event.

None of your quoted text agrees with your assessment that we should expect some networks, including PlayStation (why not Xbox?), to be disrupted. That's pure sensationalism.

A C7 is barely a fart. It's notable only because of how rare flares of any kind have been for the last three years, during the solar minimum between cycles 24 and 25. At any point from 2012-2017 this would have been called a quiet Tuesday. Did PSN get disrupted by CMEs at any point in that period?

 

[Dotini]

We are now passing from solar minimum into solar maximum, though it will take a few more years to fully realize. The ongoing reduction in Earth's magnetic field strength (for the last 150 years and counting), though not mentioned in the article, will increase as a factor in the severity of solar storms as time goes on. Also, the chance of Earth's magnetic field pointing south, as it currently does, will enhance the affects of any solar storm. As for PSN, I have seen this network recently mentioned within the space weather community as among potentially vulnerable networks. I thought that since many of our members use this network, that the possibility of it being disrupted by a solar storm would be interesting and informative, no matter how remote the likelihood. No sensationalism was intended.

"B sub Z tips south"
What does that mean?

The sun is a big magnet. Our star has an internal dynamo that generates a strong magnetic field. The solar wind carries this magnetic field throughout the solar system.

Earth has a magnetic field, too. It forms a bubble around our planet called the magnetosphere, which deflects solar wind gusts. Earth's magnetic field and the sun's magnetic field come into contact at the magnetopause: a place where the magnetosphere meets the solar wind. Earth's magnetic field points north at the magnetopause. If the sun's magnetic field points south -- a condition scientists call "southward Bz" -- then the sun's magnetic field can partially cancel Earth's magnetic field at the point of contact.




Above: A cartoon of Earth's magnetosphere, from the Oulu Space Physics Textbook.


When Bz is south, that is, opposite Earth's magnetic field, the two fields link up. You can then follow a field line from Earth directly into the solar wind and eventually back to the sun. South-pointing Bz's open a crack through which energy from the solar wind can reach Earth's atmosphere!

South-pointing Bz's often herald widespread auroras, triggered by solar wind gusts or coronal mass ejections that are able to inject energy into our planet's magnetosphere.

 

[Famine]

We are now passing from solar minimum into solar maximum, though it will take a few more years to fully realize.

Yes, 4-5 of them, given that it's an 11-year cycle.

But right now is not then. Right now we are emerging from a solar minimum. This C7 flare is evidence of that, but even your own source caps up the point that this is not a major space weather event and you're playing it up as if it is...

The ongoing reduction in Earth's magnetic field strength (for the last 150 years and counting), though not mentioned in the article, will increase as a factor in the severity of solar storms as time goes on. Also, the chance of Earth's magnetic field pointing south, as it currently does, will enhance the affects of any solar storm.

As it currently doesn't:

Incidentally, that's not the Earth's magnetic field, which never points south (or at least for the last 780,000 years), but the Sun's magnetic field (the other value is the sum of the fields; as both are north, it's additive). This is covered in what you just quoted...

And the Solar magnetic field flips on a cycle that takes... oh, 11 years. Solar minima correspond to a north field, Solar maxima to a south field. Right now we're just leaving a Solar minimum and the field is pointing, shock horror, north.


SpaceWeather predicts a G1/G2 class geomagnetic storm is likely, with possible G3. That takes into account the CME's interaction with the current interplanetary magnetic field. It's not something they've forgotten about that will enhance the storm.

You literally quoted the site saying that, and even a G3 isn't enough to knock over something like PSN. A G5 might do it, but it'd be more likely to cause problems with power lines providing electricity to servers and homes than it is the network itself. As for this:

As for PSN, I have seen this network recently mentioned within the space weather community as among potentially vulnerable networks.

Where? Who mentioned this possibility?

No sensationalism was intended.

Except you do this every time. You post about something, then inflate the possible consequences to a ludicrous degree, then post some more information which you hope won't be questioned, then play the victim, then bail out.

We're on stage four Dotini right now. Edit: Forgot the "PM the same stuff" stage.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Abort, standing down. Looks like they hit the go button and something refused to work right.

Current estimate for attempt #2 is 1:30pm CST today.

Edit: now 4:00pm CST.

 

[CodeRedR51]

New live stream link. Edit: 3:05 CST, 10 minutes...

 

[CodeRedR51]

Trying again in 10 minutes...

Third time is the charm?

 

[Dennisch]

Whoopsie

 

[Famine]

*spacecraft smashes into the floor and is obliterated*
SpaceX twitter:





Just... delusional.

It was a decent test, but it ended in "catastrophic total vehicle disassembly"; looked like the vertical stabilisation process took place simply 500 feet too close to the ground, and one of the engines involved should have fired but didn't.

There'll be good data from it, and no doubt they'll learn what went wrong (SpaceX's engineers are considerably more excellent than their company's founder) to improve the next one, but it did go wrong - just as wrong as if it had exploded on the launch pad - and can't be held as a success.


Incidentally, what was going on in that first engine flareout? It looked like it burned a lot of material in there.

 

[unit-one]

*spacecraft smashes into the floor and is obliterated*
SpaceX twitter:





Just... delusional.

It was a decent test, but it ended in "catastrophic total vehicle disassembly"; looked like the vertical stabilisation process took place simply 500 feet too close to the ground, and one of the engines involved should have fired but didn't.

There'll be good data from it, and no doubt they'll learn what went wrong (SpaceX's engineers are considerably more excellent than their company's founder) to improve the next one, but it did go wrong - just as wrong as if it had exploded on the launch pad - and can't be held as a success.


Incidentally, what was going on in that first engine flareout? It looked like it burned a lot of material in there.

Hey, tests are made to find errors and there are plenty of them as we can see. So I think the the first flight of this prototype was indeed amazing, just needs more work.

 

[Dennisch]

Still looked cool though. They will get there, this is why they test.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The actual reason for the explosion:



Successful test either way. Congrats to SpaceX! SN9 is waiting in the wings. We might be doing this again next month!

 

[wfooshee]

I'm going to assume that the "Awesome test. Congrats, Starship Team!" text was preprogrammed and nobody found the never-mind button. You just can't look at a debris field and say that seriously...

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm going to assume that the "Awesome test. Congrats, Starship Team!" text was preprogrammed and nobody found the never-mind button. You just can't look at a debris field and say that seriously...

It was the first test of something NEVER done before. A debris field was expected. Live a little.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Successful test either way. Congrats to SpaceX! SN9 is waiting in the wings. We might be doing this again next month!

Or maybe sooner? Hell yes.

 

[Dotini]

Scott Manley explains the "amazingly successful test", but notes how inadequate fuel feed caused the rocket motors to run too lean and self destruct.

 

[Famine]

I think everyone understands the concept of "test", and as a "scientist" (researcher) I certainly do and I covered that in my post...

... but there's quite a few people who don't seem to grasp the notion of "successful". Several things worked (and were successes), but one pretty major one didn't and the entire craft was explosively disassembled. I'm pretty sure that if you get on a plane and your flight ends with it in inch-wide fragments scattered across several hundred square feet at the destination, you would not consider it a "successful" one, despite the take off and most of the flight being spot on.

Even though some of the goals were achieved, and some of the procedures were successful, this was a mission failure.


Still haven't heard about that odd fire within the housing when the first engine shut down. That didn't seem at all planned, as burning fragments of whatever were ejected.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I think everyone understands the concept of "test", and as a "scientist" (researcher) I certainly do and I covered that in my post...

... but there's quite a few people who don't seem to grasp the notion of "successful". Several things worked (and were successes), but one pretty major one didn't and the entire craft was explosively disassembled. I'm pretty sure that if you get on a plane and your flight ends with it in inch-wide fragments scattered across several hundred square feet at the destination, you would not consider it a "successful" one, despite the take off and most of the flight being spot on.

Even though some of the goals were achieved, and some of the procedures were successful, this was a mission failure.


Still haven't heard about that odd fire within the housing when the first engine shut down. That didn't seem at all planned, as burning fragments of whatever were ejected.

Please stop quoting me, I will not be responding. Thanks.

 

[Famine]

Please stop quoting me, I will not be responding. Thanks.

Firstly, no - you don't get an echo chamber here. Secondly, that's comical irony... in fact one might say aerospace grade irony.