Special Black Used Cars

  • Thread starter The359
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I think the wheels are differen't for the sake of airflow. If you look at the way the front pushes air to the side and straight over the front wheel it would make sense for them to give the air a smooth transition into the vents. The back wheel is a little more sheltered and would probably be running into air that was already disrupted, hence the regular wheel.
 
Sorry for going off topic, but after looking through some of those pictures that came from the link that GT3man posted, I came across this

787_16.jpg


Screw the 787b, I want that guy's scooter :crazy:

Now lets get back on topic.
 
All the 787Bs ran with covers on the front tires only in the 1991 LeMans:
Le_Mans-1991-06-23-055.jpg

Le_Mans-1991-06-23-018.jpg


As you may remember, many cars in the 90s also ran extended bodywork over the rear wheels for better airflow. This is likely why the 787B has the circular covers only on the front wheel, since they may have tested covering the rear wheels as well but found no major gain.

As for the difference from the old 787, here's the 787 that ran in 1991 as well:
Le_Mans-1991-06-23-056.jpg


Minor differences from the 787B twin above include smaller front brake cooling ducts, the air intakes on top of the car are in a different position, the exhaust element is different, the evacuating tunnels for the front tires are flatter, the winglets on the rear wing are placed higher, and a slightly longer tail.

The differences ARE very minor, but noticeable. The cars were also all built from scratch, so a 787B was not merely a "modified 787", it was a totally new car.
 
The359
The differences ARE very minor, but noticeable. The cars were also all built from scratch, so a 787B was not merely a "modified 787", it was a totally new car.

Very educational. Thanks!
 
The359
As you may remember, many cars in the 90s also ran extended bodywork over the rear wheels for better airflow. This is likely why the 787B has the circular covers only on the front wheel, since they may have tested covering the rear wheels as well but found no major gain.
I agree. I believe it was all about aero gain. They were using carbon Brembo rotors, so heat isn't really an issue with brakes like that. So, with not needing to cool them as much as steel rotors, the better aero benefit of a covered wheel probably makes more sense. Especially with the speeds they would hit.

Hilg
 
IndyCars also used to have them as well until they were banned. They are banned in sportscars as well.
 
I believe they've been banned pretty much everywhere... I recall touring cars using them up until recently.
 
JNasty4G63
I agree. I believe it was all about aero gain. They were using carbon Brembo rotors, so heat isn't really an issue with brakes like that. So, with not needing to cool them as much as steel rotors, the better aero benefit of a covered wheel probably makes more sense. Especially with the speeds they would hit.

Hilg

heat is still an issue with hard braking. look at F1 cars and the ducting they use to cool carbon brake rotors.
 
there is also an extra flap (for a total of 3, as opposed to the old 2) in front of the rear wheel on the bottom picture of the newer car.....

or at least it appears so.
 
The359
They aren't the same car. The car in the decals thing is a Mazda 787. The car in the GT4 photo is a 787B. They're different cars.

You're right, but they're "different" in the same way that other cars (e.g. Mclaren F1) differed in being prepped for LM, such as different wheelbase etc - they're essentially the same car.

The black car looks like a homage to the Fuji test car (which is the only one I've heard of being black), but perhaps PD had access through Mazda to wider knowledge of a different car?
 
icon
heat is still an issue with hard braking. look at F1 cars and the ducting they use to cool carbon brake rotors.
Right, but as I was saying, I believe they probably wanted more aero over more cooling. Heat is ALWAYS an issue with race cars. Be it in the engine, tires, brakes, trans, diffs, whatever. Heat is bad. But, if they had the choice to either run covers on the wheels for more aero, or open it up for cooling, I think thats why they chose aero. And, since brake disc and pad swaps at LeMans in the pits is a common thing, I think that makes it an even easier choice.

Hilg
 
and then carbon brakes needs higher temps to work.

its pretty funny in motogp in the 4stroke league, they use carbon brakes, and the
rider first use full brake (just an example), and as the brakes gets warmer and warmer,
the more they grip.. and they have to use less and less brakes, and even locks up
anyway sometimes. :)

where normal brakes just starts to fade instead.
 
And GT4 isn't that precise about car names/looks anyways, they've put the ugly MB CLK-LM in the game instead of the CLK-GTR but it's still named CLK-GTR :(
 
in case someone didn't point it out, that is a 787 chassis. that's not actually the shell, thats the car without the shell.. unpainted carbon fiber. so its not a Black 787.. its just a naked one.
 
I was hoping for one of the white/blue painted 787B's in the game, this is even better. Looks so much better than green/orange!

There is a pic of a black Nissan R390 GT1 floating around too! I'm guessing they are both test cars.
 
Why would you want to improve the airflow on wheels that steer? As soon as you add any amount of lock, the airflow is disturbed.

I always thought the discs on the front wheels were for brake cooling, that's why there's a gap with 'vanes' holding the disc slightly away from the wheel rim. If the discs are for aerodynamics, why aren't they flush to the rim?

These discs were popular on Porsche 935/956/962s in the Eighties, made by BBS. If you do a Google search for 'Porsche 962 bbs discs' you'll find some. Maybe they used them as a 'quick fix' for cooling brakes without cutting huge holes in the bodywork.

As for the 787(B), they have gone to the trouble of making Australian and US versions of the Monaro/GTO, the detail differences between the Mazdas couldn't be that hard to change?

Saying that, I'd have the black one over the 'Battenburg cake' any day... :yuck:
 
I dunno, lol...that paint scheme has grown on me since I first saw it on my race-modded RX-7's and such back in GT1...I look forward to driving that new RX-8 LM looking thing that has that paintscheme. 👍
 
JNasty4G63
I agree. I believe it was all about aero gain. They were using carbon Brembo rotors, so heat isn't really an issue with brakes like that. So, with not needing to cool them as much as steel rotors, the better aero benefit of a covered wheel probably makes more sense. Especially with the speeds they would hit.

Hilg

dont mean to be a nitpicker, but reread what you wrote before. "heat isnt really an issue with brakes like that." (reference to carbon brakes)

this statement is false. they are constantly figuring out the best mechanical advantage and best aero package. sometimes they need compromise the two factors. but this still does not deter from the fact that carbon brakes need cooling.

i just dont want you to mislead people into thinking that carbon brakes is a silver bullet solution in the issue of brakes.
 
MazdaZXi
Why would you want to improve the airflow on wheels that steer? As soon as you add any amount of lock, the airflow is disturbed.
I always thought the discs on the front wheels were for brake cooling, that's why there's a gap with 'vanes' holding the disc slightly away from the wheel rim. If the discs are for aerodynamics, why aren't they flush to the rim?
These discs were popular on Porsche 935/956/962s in the Eighties, made by BBS. If you do a Google search for 'Porsche 962 bbs discs' you'll find some. Maybe they used them as a 'quick fix' for cooling brakes without cutting huge holes in the bodywork.

Yes, i'm sure these 'flat' BBS wheels were for cooling purposes - which is why they are used only on the fronts. Although Ford ran its RS200's in tarmac spec with these wheels - front and back.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i308/30862_5mg.jpg
 

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In my opinion I think u can paint any race car . I dont think its a test car cuz I saw a pic of the nissan R390 GT1 Race Car in black .
 
On the whole braking issue.


First, the 787-B was in an era BEFORE carbod disks. It would have been using a ceramic disk, with carbon metalic pads. WHich generate EXTREME amounts of heat. Far more then carbon brakes at present do.

Also, those are most definatly cooling disks. They have been used in Group-C and Group-B racing for quite some time. From the mid 70's on up to the early 90's untill carbon pads, and direct brake ducting became more common.

The biggest thing to realize is that aerodynamics back in the 80's where nothing like what they are today. And teh design modes are complete different. Not to mention the diggerence in rules, and what was allowed to be run, and what was needed to run. For example, you wouldent see an older Group-C car, or a Can-Am car running a 20" wheel like we see on the Bently LMP's or Audi RS8's. Plus back then they didnt think about the ducting working with the aerodynamics of the car. The idea was to make the car as slipper through teh air as possible, and present the air with the smoothest, cleanest face possible. Putting an air-vent on the car wont make it have a slippery profile to the air. And adding a NACA duct ont eh side of the car wouldent work, as around the nose a low pressure area would form preventing the NACA duct from pulling air in. So, they used the "aero wheels" to suck the air in through the cooling veins, to keep the ceramic disks cool and prevent them from glassing over.

Once rules changed, and the emphasis was not as much on flat out top speed, as it was on low drag coefficient, and high cornering and braking, then putting duct work in the front was no problem.

Its all about inovating for what you need.
 
not sure how reliable the source is, but they say on the 696th day, for a period of one week you can buy at the used dealer:

early90's
 Mazda 787B ’91
   122,499,900Cr.
 Nissan R92CP ’92
   122,499,900Cr.
late90's
 Nissan R390GT1 ’98
   225,000,000Cr.
 Toyota GT-ONE(TS202) ’99
   292,499,900Cr.

All in black color
Anyone confirm this?
 
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