(Spin) Problem Handling Cars list

  • Thread starter Gturbo5
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Hi guys, this what I´ve posted on some threads about the MR "problem" (please excuse my english beforehand)

I tend to think that the problem is with the Center of Gravity of the cars, affected by the way the weight transfer from back to front. Not a "fixed COG" problem wich would mean that the cars itself are "broken" or poorly modeled... not at all.

More ir the way COG transfer from back to front on braking. (the stoppies of FR cars are nothing normal and they are related to the problem...)

Remember Enthusia? Remember the v-Box wich shows the way the COG moves when driving? Well, in GT6 that seems to be like an on-off COG movement.

And that´s why the problem is with MR cars and not with FR. When you´re braking hard on a FR car the COG transfer to the front, the tires get all the grip on the planet, and it´ll turn perfectly well. On the other hand, being the engine on the front causes a LOT or weight to be shifted to the front, and that´s causing the stoppies on FR, and not so much on MR cars.

With all that said, the lack of grip that we are experiencing on MR cars happens to be caused by the same COG transfer. When on FR cars you have a lot of grip on the front, wich is good, on MR the lack of grip on the back causes the snap oversteer that is happening.

BTW, I´m doing a lot of testing, and the problem ISN´T A HANDLING PROBLEM. It isn´t about "You suck at driving/You are the best driver on the world"... it happens when you brake, or when the car lifts on a bump.

The driving model is lovely. I LOVE GT6 to death, is just that, but the COG transfer has to be tuned down just a little. And that why if you add ballast to the front on MR cars the problem is someway mitigated.(the COG is already moved the front, so the transfer isn´t that drastical)

Don´t be apologist, people. We ain´t here to bash GT6 like a "diehard forza fan". All of us have bought GT6 and will keep on playing for years to come. It´s something that has to be fixed. If we took this attitude of "NOTHING IS WRONG" we´ll never have a Spec II like we all had on GT5. I drive with a DFGT, ABS 0 with 1/1 Brake distribution, no TCS and no ESP. I´m not a crazy rally driver wannabe... and I´m not spinning everywhere, but I insist on that there´s something odd. Quite odd...

Peace :) and again, excuse my english. It´s quite hard to explain something when you can´t speak properly... :dunce:
 
My personal opinion so far is that there is nothing wrong with MR cars or weight shift globally.

Most cars just drive really nice and do exactly what i expect them to do.
I have driven MP4-12C, Gallardo, latest NSX-R, Accura NSX, Elise 190, Zonda R for some time and like them all.
I also cant remember a bad car in all the missions/license tests or Goodwood.
I would even say some of them are to easy to drive for their age and should be more of a handful to master.
(S1, Miura, Countach)


But there are some cars with problems, the steering of all Audi R8's for example seems to be way to sensitive.
If you are not very careful they go straight in a spin just from steering.

Just compare the R8 V10 with the Gallardo, they are very similar so should behave quite the same.
Gallardo does as expected, a little slow/heavy on turn in, understeer, but with weight shift (brake/lift off) you can get the back out very nicely.
The R8 just turns in like crazy and the back cant follow.

I cant get the FXX to keep in a straight line on braking, as soon as i make the tiniest correction at the steering the back starts to swerve all over the place. (Also brakes are really bad)
Zonda R can brake 100m later and stays straight like its on tracks.
Again these 2 should be roughly comparable, but for a strange reason the Zonda has way more downforce (like the racecars) while the FXX seems to have numbers comparable to sports cars.


The "stoppies" some cars do should not be overrated.
Cars can get very light at the rear. High roof, FF, soft suspension even more so.
And i also only saw it on AI cars so far, maybe they have a simplified physic engine ?
If the calculation is off by just a little bit that could be enough for that funny bug.

But i would not conclude that because of this all MR cars are broken...

So the basics seem to be OK but some cars need to be looked at again.
 
Says a lot about how badly they screwed things up that the real life race car in the rain is easier to drive than the road car with less power in the dry in GT6
lol_emoticon_by_tailsfan97-d3i63ab.gif
 
I used to own an AW11 MR2 and raced it in a time trial event at Willow Springs without handling issues, and that was on the real life equivalent of comfort soft tires. The same car, on the same track, with grippier tires in the game, is a spin happy mess. There's clearly an issue.

I've also driven small MR formula cars during racing school, and while much less forgiving than a road car, it was still entirely possible to catch slides when they resulted from going too fast into a corner. In GT6 that's nearly impossible.

The only solution I've found is to brake to a much lower speed than normal before the corner and then throttle through the whole thing in a massive exaggeration of real MR technique. It works, but it's an awkward workaround and is substantially slower than what can be done in an FR. It also doesn't help in decreasing radius or double apex corners.

For what it's worth, I'm using a G27.
 
No! Omg, you no have PS3 nad GT6? I'm pro racing driving! But I driving Ferrari F40 my steering and NO throttle inputs at 40-80mph, corner left or right to Spin! No throttle! just wow! any cars are broken in gt6 new physics...

Need PD fix it!

I know this is way off topic... But I just read that whole paragraph in a Filipino accent....
 
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Most GT academy finalist's were not used to real life racig driving physics they just were fast in GT5*
And note the word "most" not all.

Nope, it's you. The physics of this game are in no way the same as GT5, so we're all noobs at it.

Now, to beat that dead horse, this time it's all about managing tire load. Get it right, and the cars are REALLY good. get it wrong and they're a nightmare. I watched a 550pp NSXR run an 8:12 at the nurb24 this morning. I haven't timed my own, but I know it's faster than my CSL that hit 8:20, and I'm on a controller.

Play with you dampers, anti-roll bars, brakes, and diff. You'll figure it out.
 
I just drove 731bhp Lambo Countach 25th Anniversary. By the logic of the whiners in this thread, I should be spinning, which I was, but only when I was trying to drive it like I would drive in NFS. When I drove it in calm and precise manner, avoiding quick, jerking inputs, it drove like a dream. I'd say that it's not a physics problem, but driver/setup problem.
 
Weight transfer observation

You bring up a very valid point.

But I'm thinking that maybe if some front engine cars are having issues with stoppies, then maybe PD has exaggerated the extent of the transfer and that is causing issues. If this is indeed what is happening, then a minor reduction in the extent of weight transfer may be the key. That is if PD has actually overdone it, which might not be the case.

However, I'm more for the idea that most players having problems are more facing issues with the transition from GT5 to GT6. GT5 didn't focus as much on tires, suspension or weight transfer as GT6. And GT6 has suddenly put proper consideration to suspension, tires, and weight transfer. This new focus has caught players out and the new found realism (maybe) is hard to adjust. Especially if the player's view is still in solid belief that GT5's physics were beyond anything else at the time.
 
You bring up a very valid point.

But I'm thinking that maybe if some front engine cars are having issues with stoppies, then maybe PD has exaggerated the extent of the transfer and that is causing issues. If this is indeed what is happening, then a minor reduction in the extent of weight transfer may be the key. That is if PD has actually overdone it, which might not be the case.

However, I'm more for the idea that most players having problems are more facing issues with the transition from GT5 to GT6. GT5 didn't focus as much on tires, suspension or weight transfer as GT6. And GT6 has suddenly put proper consideration to suspension, tires, and weight transfer. This new focus has caught players out and the new found realism (maybe) is hard to adjust. Especially if the player's view is still in solid belief that GT5's physics were beyond anything else at the time.

You could be right too. I won't dismiss the possibility of someone or another getting used to GT5, but driving is driving. This is not NFS. If you pick GT3 or 4 or 5 with a clean driving mentality, they don't differ "that much" (with all being said, of course).

The question here is why so many real life MR cars drivers are saying that there's something odd. I support Gran Turismo, and I'll do it on the future but we can't do it blindly.

Now we should take a car, a setting, a track, and drive and compare laps. If I do 2:00 complaining, and someone came with a 1:30, then I'm wrong... But we should do something like that. That's why we are here, aren't we?
 
I'm having the same problem...you just have to be a lot more patient with the throttle, lift before the corner and don't slam on the brakes, maybe its because im using a ds3 and not a wheel
 
Well, I tried out the Audi R8 15th Anniversary GT car and at low speed corners it spins out with ridiculous ease even with Medium racing tyres. The Huayra on the otherhand is fine. And it's not my driving. I've got all golds in licence test except S (not done them yet) so I'm not cack-handed. Something is up with the car.
 
:confused: What the heck are u smoking?
Gt6 replicating real world behaviour?:odd:
Boy, you are in for a surprise first time u drive in a race track..
Camel wides, and I have a fair amount of track time. If I didn't, I would be here throwing my 2¢ into the whine machine.
Incase you missed my point, these people complaining on week one about the vehicles being undrivable havent put enough time in and most don't drive in the situations gt6 reproduces. I'm sure there are a few individual vehicles that are improperly reproduced, but good news! There's a tuning menu with many things to help set the car in your favor.
 
See this?

auto2.jpg


It has a motor from lawnmower, can do about 12mph. It also is MR, and it WILL spin out despite of low speed and low power etc.. because it is the nature of MR cars to rotate well due to mass being near the center of the vehicle. How do I know this? I drove one as a kid, and spun out several times when pushing it. So, do tell, why is it so hard for some people to understand basic physics behind the driving dynamics of MR car?
 
Well, I tried out the Audi R8 15th Anniversary GT car and at low speed corners it spins out with ridiculous ease even with Medium racing tyres. The Huayra on the otherhand is fine. And it's not my driving. I've got all golds in licence test except S (not done them yet) so I'm not cack-handed. Something is up with the car.

It's your driving, the R18 generates very high downforce at high speed, when you slow down you lose that downforce and so have to be smoother with the car to avoid wheelspin. All the LMP/Group C cars are like this, no issue.
 
You honestly can not tell me the Diablo GT2 isn't broken. That thing spins on every single opportunity it gets, even with TCS on. Granted I did drive it with Racing Hards but should that mean more grip than the Sport Hards it came with? I don't consider myself a good or bad driver but come on, I'm taking the corners slower than a Prius in this thing and it still spins.
 
I still think this weight transfer is a little extreme. It is possible to manage and using weight reduction, then adding ballast and moving it forward helps quite alot... You still have to be very cautious lifting and turning in, trail braking, or lifting during a high speed bend. Trailing throttle also helps and not staying off throttle too long in tighter turns.

This is the F40 @ Apricot Hill. Stock settings and parts but with weight reduction stage 3 and 200kg ballast set so weight distribution is 48/52 (-43%), S1 tyres, no aids other than ABS 1:

 
You honestly can not tell me the Diablo GT2 isn't broken. That thing spins on every single opportunity it gets, even with TCS on. Granted I did drive it with Racing Hards but should that mean more grip than the Sport Hards it came with? I don't consider myself a good or bad driver but come on, I'm taking the corners slower than a Prius in this thing and it still spins.
Yep. It's undrivable. Going in the corner with 50 km/h will still make it spin without using the throttle in that moment. There's just no way to drive this thing fast.
The Cizeta is an angel compared to the Diablo GT2.
 
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Yep. It's undrivable. Going in the corner with 50 km/h will still make it spin without using the throttle in that moment. There's just no way to drive this thing fast.
The Cizeta is an angel compared to the Diablo GT2.
I disagree entirely. I'd never driven the GT2 so far, so I went and gave it a go round Trial Mountain on S1 tyres, no tuning.... its a hoot, man, I honestly don't understand why its broken. The new physics model (tyres and suspension) are heavily affected by weight transfer, just like in real life. Remember, when you're thrashing around a race track, your tyre is always on the verge of losing grip. Pretty much, if you're on the limit, the whole lap is one long controlled slide but without going sideways too much. So the poor tyre is doing all it can to not slide over the track surface too much and then suddenly, poof, half the weight that was holding it down is gone... the tyre breathes a sigh of relief as it lets go and wanders off the track for a rest. MR cars are heavily affected by this, and since most of the ones we're discussing are sports cars with no downforce, they're extremely powerful and a bloody handful to put it mildly (which, incidentally, is why mere mortals should be banned from buying them)...
628x471.jpg

Easy fix for those that are too extreme is to apply one of the weight reductions and add an equal amount of ballast, then move it forward until you're happy with the balance mid corner. The GT2 worked best at Weight reduction 1, 169kg ballast set at -25%.... and on S1s remember, with no other tuning.

I'll post a video of the fastest lap after I've had dinner - as with the F40 vid (previous post), watch the steering, throttle and brake inputs, particularly when the car starts to unload the rear.
 
So far I think the weight transfer effects are much improved over GT5... 👍

...very unforgiving as the law of physics usually are. :scared:

Perhaps some feet/trigger fingers need additional calibration... :sly:

-----------------------------------
If I run into something overly twitchy, I will be back to report. :D

:gtpflag: I use a T500, no driving aids/0 ABS unless forced.
 
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Problem handling any cars are spin and oversteer or Broken car thread here. (Need report! PD Need fix it)

Problem handling cars list:

-Ferraria F40 by https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/f40-horrible.293119/page-2#post-9066767
-Lancia Stratos? by https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/lancia-stratos-15th-aniv-undriveable.292850
-Audi R8 by https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/looks-like-the-audi-r8-its-broken.293304
-Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car (found by me)
-RUF RGT (Glitch +100kg balance weight if rear 50% = oversteer-spin(found by me)

-Cizeta V16T? (by me and Stormtrooper217)
-Toyota MR2? (by reaperman)
-Lamborghini Aventador (of course, so easy drift king! by gregorius93 and me)
-Lamborghini Diablo GT2? (by R1600Turbo)
-Audi R8 (by https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/looks-like-the-audi-r8-its-broken.293304/page-2)
-Honda Fit (Broken car) by e30 freek

-...? any got? who found?


(Update add list)

At least get your grammar right! This is possibly the most pointless thread yet...
 
At least get your grammar right! This is possibly the most pointless thread yet...

Unlike Aussie you, English might not be Gturbo5's native tongue...
...regardless of your opinion of his post's content, I think that's a bit harsh.

His profile lists Poland as the country.
 
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