SR doesn't work. Tired of getting rear ended.

[Deadheadbill]

Haha just kidding, not one of those threads. Just wanted to say that with all these types of threads we are missing something imo.

Well over 90% of the racers I race against are honest, sportsmanlike and nice. They make mistakes, I make mistakes, we all make mistakes but there is no animosity, no troll factor, no desire to ruin another racers experience, less than 10%(imo) are true trolls, bullies, asshats.

My point is if you look at the whole, I think we are doing pretty good. Just look at games like Overwatch, CS:GO or Rainbow 6 if you want to see what toxicity really looks like. Rainbow 6 had such a problem with players headshotting their teammates before the round even started that they had to implement special rules/bans for it. I have yet to have anyone purposely ram me out of the race on the startup which would be the equivalent.

So while I think there are improvements to be made, I don't think this game has as big of a problem as we may think it does.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Haha just kidding, not one of those threads. Just wanted to say that with all these types of threads we are missing something imo.

Well over 90% of the racers I race against are honest, sportsmanlike and nice. They make mistakes, I make mistakes, we all make mistakes but there is no animosity, no troll factor, no desire to ruin another racers experience, less than 10%(imo) are true trolls, bullies, asshats.

My point is if you look at the whole, I think we are doing pretty good. Just look at games like Overwatch, CS:GO or Rainbow 6 if you want to see what toxicity really looks like. Rainbow 6 had such a problem with players headshotting their teammates before the round even started that they had to implement special rules/bans for it. I have yet to have anyone purposely ram me out of the race on the startup which would be the equivalent.

So while I think there are improvements to be made, I don't think this game has as big of a problem as we may think it does.

If someone isn't a troll or an asshat, they'll pull over and let you regain the position if they "accidentally" punt you off. I haven't seen many people on GTP reporting this occurring on a regular basis. In my books, even if it's an "accident", if you profit from it and take no action to make amends, you're still an asshat.

 

[ZnA1209]

I will say this, more than half of my top 5 finishes have been because of others driving like clowns. I love crossing the line in 10th and finishing 5th because of all the penalties others have.

 

[Deadheadbill]

If someone isn't a troll or an asshat, they'll pull over and let you regain the position if they "accidentally" punt you off. I haven't seen many people on GTP reporting this occurring on a regular basis. In my books, even if it's an "accident", if you profit from it and take no action to make amends, you're still an asshat.

I have definitely seen that in GTS, once as recently as last night where a guy did exactly that for me(I posted about it elsewhere which gave me the thought for this thread). I have also seen racers do it for others in front of me.

Edit: Also, this is a forum. Do you think more people are going to take the time to report getting rammed or how someone was sportsmanlike to them?

 

[NJ72]

I agree that there could be that kind of gentlemanly behaviour of letting people back past, but I agree on the whole with what Deadheadbill says. I've encountered a couple of idiots, but given the sheer number of people I've raced against they have been fewer in number than the whinging on here would suggest.

One thing I did see, which is actually quite intelligent, is that someone pulled off the racing line and whacked on their hazard lights whilst coasting off a penalty.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have definitely seen that in GTS, once as recently as last night where a guy did exactly that for me(I posted about it elsewhere which gave me the thought for this thread). I have also seen racers do it for others in front of me.

Edit: Also, this is a forum. Do you think more people are going to take the time to report getting rammed or how someone was sportsmanlike to them?

People will always report the negative more than the positive. At the same time, if they like a game, they'll exaggerate the level of positive events as well. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

 

[Deadheadbill]

People will always report the negative more than the positive. At the same time, if they like a game, they'll exaggerate the level of positive events as well. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Completely disagree, people are twice as likely to come online and bitch as to say something nice. That is the way of the internet.

Edit: Actually not sure of your point. You seem to contradict yourself?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Completely disagree, people are twice as likely to come online and bitch as to say something nice. That is the way of the internet.

Edit: Actually not sure of your point. You seem to contradict yourself?

Disagree with what? I said people will always report the negative more than the positive. That's a general statement. But people who love a game (a subset of total gamers) will always remember the positives (or overlook the negatives) and exaggerate them as well. No contradiction.

 

[Matt368]

I have both given a position back and had it given back to me after an innocent incident and I have also seen people putting their hazards on to apologize if a move was particularly aggressive. To be honest I really don't mind aggressive racing as long as it is fair.

The vast majority I have raced so far have been very fair with only the odd few being overly aggressive but I have only seen 1 person around me so far deliberately trying to ruin other's races.

 

[MBRuss]

Weirdly, I got a 10 second penalty last night for somebody firing into a corner and hitting me in the side. Not ideal, but in a real life race I'd have been smashed to pieces and unable to finish the race, so even in real life it's "unfair" on the racer who gets hit. As such, the penalty system seems OK.

I also had a guy try to pit manoeuvre me, which sent me off the track (though luckily didn't spin me out). I caught him back up easily and just drove past. No reason to harm my SR, although revenge was tempting.

However, I did accidentally punt a car up the backside last night. I had fought from about 8th on the grid up to 2nd, and the leader broke slightly early, so I lightly nudged him deeper into the corner by accident. I got a 2 second penalty, as I suppose he did, but managed to coast it off. Did I give the place back up? No, because I had caught him very quickly from a long way back on the grid and was clearly much quicker. Letting him back past would just increase the chances of us tangling again as I continued to try to pass. I carried on and continued to pull away from him. He got overtaken a lap or so later by the next guy and finished in third, just over 3 seconds behind me.

I feel bad for bumping him, but it wasn't intentional and have had the same happen to me countless times in races. It happens.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Weirdly, I got a 10 second penalty last night for somebody firing into a corner and hitting me in the side. Not ideal, but in a real life race I'd have been smashed to pieces and unable to finish the race, so even in real life it's "unfair" on the racer who gets hit. As such, the penalty system seems OK.

I also had a guy try to pit manoeuvre me, which sent me off the track (though luckily didn't spin me out). I caught him back up easily and just drove past. No reason to harm my SR, although revenge was tempting.

However, I did accidentally punt a car up the backside last night. I had fought from about 8th on the grid up to 2nd, and the leader broke slightly early, so I lightly nudged him deeper into the corner by accident. I got a 2 second penalty, as I suppose he did, but managed to coast it off. Did I give the place back up? No, because I had caught him very quickly from a long way back on the grid and was clearly much quicker. Letting him back past would just increase the chances of us tangling again as I continued to try to pass. I carried on and continued to pull away from him. He got overtaken a lap or so later by the next guy and finished in third, just over 3 seconds behind me.

I feel bad for bumping him, but it wasn't intentional and have had the same happen to me countless times in races. It happens.

So if you are clearly quicker and bump and run someone you don't have to give the position back. I assume if you were equal pace then you would give it back? I didn't realize that racing etiquette changed depending on how fast you were. Logic.

 

[JulesDennis]

So if you are clearly quicker and bump and run someone you don't have to give the position back. I assume if you were equal pace then you would give it back? I didn't realize that racing etiquette changed depending on how fast you were. Logic.

What I wrote in another post of mine.
Being slow or fast does not make someone "clean".I've seen so many people use the same argument to prove that they "did nothing wrong" passing slower guys/oe even lapping them "because they are ...faster anyway" so they have the "right to act that way".

 

[MBRuss]

Nah, I probably wouldn't have given it back in either scenario, it was a tiny bump and I'd have passed him regardless, so would have been pointless, but I would have expected similar back in return if he had kept up. It's online console racing, I've never experienced any "etiquette".

 

[Johnnypenso]

Nah, I probably wouldn't have given it back in either scenario, it was a tiny bump and I'd have passed him regardless, so would have been pointless, but I would have expected similar back in return if he had kept up. It's online console racing, I've never experienced any "etiquette".

Etiquette isn't about what would have happened anyway. Etiquette is holding yourself to a certain standard of fairness and fairplay, regardless of what would have happened eventually. Another word for it might be integrity or honour. Your selfish approach is the kind of thing that ruins online racing for many of us that believe in fairplay.

 

[MBRuss]

Haha, "honour"... it's a Playstation game - get a grip! It was a tiny unintentional bump. I like a clean race as much an the next guy, but I'm not gonna start crying about the odd bump here and there, regardless of which end of the bump I'm on.

 

[NJ72]

Weirdly, I got a 10 second penalty last night for somebody firing into a corner and hitting me in the side. Not ideal, but in a real life race I'd have been smashed to pieces and unable to finish the race, so even in real life it's "unfair" on the racer who gets hit. As such, the penalty system seems OK.

I also had a guy try to pit manoeuvre me, which sent me off the track (though luckily didn't spin me out). I caught him back up easily and just drove past. No reason to harm my SR, although revenge was tempting.

However, I did accidentally punt a car up the backside last night. I had fought from about 8th on the grid up to 2nd, and the leader broke slightly early, so I lightly nudged him deeper into the corner by accident. I got a 2 second penalty, as I suppose he did, but managed to coast it off. Did I give the place back up? No, because I had caught him very quickly from a long way back on the grid and was clearly much quicker. Letting him back past would just increase the chances of us tangling again as I continued to try to pass. I carried on and continued to pull away from him. He got overtaken a lap or so later by the next guy and finished in third, just over 3 seconds behind me.

I feel bad for bumping him, but it wasn't intentional and have had the same happen to me countless times in races. It happens.

This particular example seems more like a racing incident than an actual crash, to me. If this had been touring cars in real life I don't think anyone would have been penalised for it...

Just my 0.02.

 

[MBRuss]

This particular example seems more like a racing incident than an actual crash, to me. If this had been touring cars in real life I don't think anyone would have been penalised for it...

Just my 0.02.

Thanks NJ - that's exactly it. In fact, it was far less than you'd see from the likes of certain BTCC drivers. My point was that not every rear end punt is intentional, nor full of malice. I didn't mean to hit him, but having been clouted by numerous other drivers online, I'm not going to stop my car and let him past, only to end up tangling with him again trying to pass the next time. In BTCC it would have been counted as a legitimate pass, there's no onus to "give places back". I think some of the guys on here would be better off in races with permanent ghosting, or time trial style races.

 

[JulesDennis]

This particular example seems more like a racing incident than an actual crash, to me. If this had been touring cars in real life I don't think anyone would have been penalised for it...

Just my 0.02.

So hitting someone from behind,pushing him off line,gaining a position and saying "it does not matter because I was faster anyway" is just a racing incident to you?
You think if something like that happens in DTM,Super GT or FIA WEC would not
a.Cause damage to both cars
b.Result in some kind of penalty ?

 

[MBRuss]

In BTCC it wouldn't. But, er, this is a computer game... on a home console, not a real life race.

a. No damage was caused to any pixels in the slight love tap that made the other gamer go slightly wide
b. I received a penalty, of 2 seconds, which I slowed down for

 

[Veinz]

I've only come across a couple dirty racers in my time with sport mode. If people think GTS is bad for crashers, they should try the Forza Motorsport multiplayer hoppers. Overall the sport mode experience has been much better than what I've experienced in FM over the years.

 

[polizei]

I will say this, more than half of my top 5 finishes have been because of others driving like clowns. I love crossing the line in 10th and finishing 5th because of all the penalties others have.

Yeah it's pretty funny to go across the line in 7th and then make it up to 3 or 4 from all the penalties haha

 

[rono_thomas]

But, er, this is a computer game... on a home console, not a real life race.

And yet the clues with the driver ratings are there, as well as the etiquette videos that the “game” is trying to emulate a real life race.

Its clear that the etiquette videos combined with driver rating are not quite up to the task of changing the gamer mentality when it comes to online racing.

 

[JulesDennis]

In BTCC it wouldn't. But, er, this is a computer game... on a home console, not a real life race.

a. No damage was caused to any pixels in the slight love tap that made the other gamer go slightly wide
b. I received a penalty, of 2 seconds, which I slowed down for

Just because its a...game (not a sim?) does not mean you or me or anyone else can play...dirty.
Plus its funny that you talk about BTCC at the time that they are actually changing their rules in order to be more harsh.

 

[MBRuss]

And yet the clues with the driver ratings are there, as well as the etiquette videos that the “game” is trying to emulate a real life race.

Its clear that the etiquette videos combined with driver rating are not quite up to the task of changing the gamer mentality when it comes to online racing.

They're there to stop the Forza mentality of intentionally piling into other cars and driving like it's a destruction derby, and it seems to be working, players like that are much less common than in other racing games I've played online.

That said, racing incidents do happen. I made it quite clear that I accidentally tapped the back of the car in front. I didn't intend to, it wasn't a tactic to pass him, and I didn't smash him up the backside at double his speed, sending him into the wall. For my small tap I received a slow down penalty, which I complied with. There's no onus or suggestion in the game that I should then give up my position, and nothing like that has ever happened when I've received shunts.

People do seem to love to overreact to occurrences in computer games though.

Just because its a...game (not a sim?) does not mean you or me or anyone else can play...dirty.
Plus its funny that you talk about BTCC at the time that they are actually changing their rules in order to be more harsh.

I wasn't playing dirty. As I've said multiple times, it was an accidental tap, because he broke earlier than expected. You just seem to want to hear that as "I torpedoed him into the wall for teh lulz".

 

[JulesDennis]

I wasn't playing dirty. As I've said multiple times, it was an accidental tap, because he broke earlier than expected. You just seem to want to hear that as "I torpedoed him into the wall for teh lulz".

" I had fought from about 8th on the grid up to 2nd, and the leader broke slightly early, so I lightly nudged him deeper into the corner by accident. I got a 2 second penalty, as I suppose he did, but managed to coast it off. Did I give the place back up? No, because I had caught him very quickly from a long way back on the grid and was clearly much quicker. Letting him back past would just increase the chances of us tangling again as I continued to try to pass"

You hit him from behind and now you say its his fault because he "broke earlier than expected" (propably earlier that you expected).
Either way I did not say you did that on purpose.I am just pointing your logic:
a.Was not my fault he breaks early,so I accidently put him off line
b.I was faster anyway so I had the right to keep the position
c.If I gave the position back,something similar would happen again since I would try to pass him the same way I already did
d.Both of us got a penalty (but only one made a mistake btw) so its ok.
its not something that people should have when they race in a e-sport racing sim.
Its fine when they do race in a casual,non-sim racing game on the other hand.

 

[MBRuss]

" I had fought from about 8th on the grid up to 2nd, and the leader broke slightly early, so I lightly nudged him deeper into the corner by accident. I got a 2 second penalty, as I suppose he did, but managed to coast it off. Did I give the place back up? No, because I had caught him very quickly from a long way back on the grid and was clearly much quicker. Letting him back past would just increase the chances of us tangling again as I continued to try to pass"

You hit him from behind and now you say its his fault because he "broke earlier than expected" (propably earlier that you expected).
Either way I did not say you did that on purpose.I am just pointing your logic:
a.Was not my fault he breaks early,so I accidently put him off line
b.I was faster anyway so I had the right to keep the position
c.If I gave the position back,something similar would happen again since I would try to pass him the same way I already did
d.Both of us got a penalty (but only one made a mistake btw) so its ok.
its not something that people should have when they race in a e-sport racing sim.
Its fine when they do race in a casual,non-sim racing game on the other hand.

Oh, well in that case my apologies - I hadn't realised YOUR rules on what is allowed in sim vs supposed non-sim Playstation games.

There I was playing by the actual rules and penalty system implemented in the game I was playing, like a fool.

Also, I never said I'd hit him again in the same way when trying to pass again, otherwise that would be intentional. I said it'd increase the likelihood of us tangling again, which logically, it would.

 

[NJ72]

Crikey, bit of a keyboard warrior there, eh?

A) He didn't claim it was the other driver's fault, just that he tapped him because the other drive broke earlier than he was expecting (if we're being picky, that means he's admitting his error in judgement on the braking timing)
B) His reasoning is irrelevant, in any other real world racing discipline he wouldn't have returned the position and he wouldn't have been penalised for it (unless the 'tap' was excessive, which it doesn't sound like it was as the other driver remained on track).
C) He never said that at all.
D) He doesn't know if the other driver got a penalty, and it is irrelevant, really, in this particular racing incident. The 'Stewards' penalised him, he complied. end of, no love lost.

You seem to suggest that in the real world contact NEVER happens and when it does there is ALWAYS someone at fault who should be booted from the race. That simply isn't the case, I'm afraid.

Racing incidents happen, now lay off the guy.

 

[MBRuss]

Crikey, bit of a keyboard warrior there, eh?

A) He didn't claim it was the other driver's fault, just that he tapped him because the other drive broke earlier than he was expecting (if we're being picky, that means he's admitting his error in judgement on the braking timing)
B) His reasoning is irrelevant, in any other real world racing discipline he wouldn't have returned the position and he wouldn't have been penalised for it (unless the 'tap' was excessive, which it doesn't sound like it was as the other driver remained on track).
C) He never said that at all.
D) He doesn't know if the other driver got a penalty, and it is irrelevant, really, in this particular racing incident. The 'Stewards' penalised him, he complied. end of, no love lost.

You seem to suggest that in the real world contact NEVER happens and when it does there is ALWAYS someone at fault who should be booted from the race. That simply isn't the case, I'm afraid.

Racing incidents happen, now lay off the guy.

Thanks again NJ, at least somebody can read. As you say, I admit it was my fault - I'm not blaming the guy for braking, it was a corner, however I expected him to brake later. That's the reason for the contact. Also, the 2 second penalty should indicate that it was a small tap. If I'd piled into him the penalty would have been higher.

As I say, I'd like if all racing on GTS was clean - however, I would still expect there to be contact between cars, just as there is in all motorsport, even at the top level where the cars are costly and lives are at risk. To then expect no contact whatsoever in a computer game is ridiculous, as is to expect everyone to give up positions just because that's what you happen to do.

I can imagine that these guys who take it seriously enough to give up places "for honour", probably also spend a lot of their time foaming at the mouth and throwing things at their TV when they (inevitably) get somebody out-brake themselves and run into the back of them.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Haha, "honour"... it's a Playstation game - get a grip! It was a tiny unintentional bump. I like a clean race as much an the next guy, but I'm not gonna start crying about the odd bump here and there, regardless of which end of the bump I'm on.

Honour, integrity, fairplay. These are personal standards of conduct that follow the person regardless of where they are. You either have them or you don't. You don't. Glad you made it clear.👍

 

[NJ72]

Because obviously things like that are black and white, 'you either have them or you don't' - remind me again how many times 'The right thing' has been a black and white decision...