You forgot valour and courage, Spartan...
SR doesn't work. Tired of getting rear ended.
- Thread starter Deadheadbill
- 96 comments
- 5,191 views
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
Lets be clear I was replying to your above statement.
Seems to me your wires have become a bit crossed, This Forza mentality as you put it, never experienced it, never played the game however I would believe that combining the etiquette videos with the driver rating try to go deeper than just changing a destruction derby type behaviour, they try to teach how to race, for position or racing against backmarkers.
I was not judging your incident, so I’ll have to assume this reply was not directed at me?
I dont see any over reactions in this disscussion just a difference in standards.
Perhaps you missed the guy attacking my personality for accidentally grazing the back of a virtual car in a computer game.
No wires crossed here, the etiquette videos do nothing to teach you how to race. All they and the sportsmanship rating do is try to give players something to dissuade them from smashing into one another. Not that it's relevant anyway - unless you're again making the erroneous assumption that I hit him on purpose. It was an accident. As far as the game is concerned I don't need to change my mindset - I already didn't mean to hit him, and the penalty system already "punished" me for doing so, to reiterate the point. Beyond that, there's no obligation or expectation for me to pull over and wait for the other driver to pass - that's something a handful of people on here seem to expect and something that I've never experienced online, nor was even aware of until today. Certainly it has never happened in any of the real life racing I've ever watched. Either the drivers have done it on purpose as a means to pass, or in the case of an accident have usually blamed one another, the car behind blaming the driver in front for braking early and vice versa.
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- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
Post #30, where apparently I'm devoid of various positive traits because of my reprehensible behaviour on a computer game.
People seem so worked up about contact in this game that they'll attack anyone who admits to having contacted another player, accidental or otherwise. Apparently if I don't add additional made-up rules onto the existing in game structure then I'm this that and the other...
- 105
- South West
Why do you keep stating the obvious? I'm pretty sure we are all aware we are discussing a computer game. Not trying to be arsey but it does seem like the "not one pixel was harmed, virtual car" mentality is a way excusing yourself from having certain values and then mocking others who do.
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
Yes and and your reply to me was post 21 so how could I be referencing something that hasn’t happened and how could you?
This extra set of rules are not new peruse the online racing leagues at your leisure here on GTP, you will find that many leagues race here with these unwritten rules.
I’m disagreeing with you because you seem to be playing the victim because you have the attitude if the game allows it why not?
You will find many here on GTP will find that a controversial opinion, its just good manners if you gain any place whilst bumping clipping or result of any contact that you give the position back, ok disagree, but expect others to disagree with you.
I'm stating the obvious because, whilst obvious, it seems to have been lost to some in this thread. Even now you're talking about "excusing myself from having certain values", seemingly missing the glaring facts that:
a.) It's a game
b.) It was an accident
Or am I morally bankrupt if I play Darth Vader in a Star Wars game, because regardless of whether or not it's a game I ought to hold myself to a higher moral standard and pick Luke Skywalker?
It's just a bit pathetic to start a witch hunt and start claiming I have no morals because I accidentally tapped the back of another car. In Gran Turismo. Once. And admitted it.
I could understand the whole "morals" angle if I was rolling around purposely shoving people off on every corner and had worked out a way to "cheat" the penalty system to benefit from it, but I'm not. It was one little tap. The only mistake I made (aside from misjudging how early the other car would begin braking) was being honest about it here. Perhaps I should have not mentioned it and paraded around on my high horse claiming that I dole out race positions like Christmas presents like others in this thread.
- 823
- Planet Earth
- silz616
Your original post said "punt a car" and now it's "a graze". You also said "revenge was tempting" and your tone in your replies is very defensive.
I'd say work on you delivery and the replies you get may not be so judgemental.
Yes, it's a game, but you are playing real people. If everybody played with some self restraint and some decorum just think how much everybody would be enjoying it.
I'd say work on you delivery and the replies you get may not be so judgemental.
Yes, it's a game, but you are playing real people. If everybody played with some self restraint and some decorum just think how much everybody would be enjoying it.
- 105
- South West
I think you are taking it a bit far. I'm not saying you are devoid of morals at all and I'm not missing either of the points you have listed. I understand it was an accident and I have, and will make similar ones in the future I'm sure. The reason I asked why you keep stating the obvious is simply because it seemed, to me at least that you were using the game angle to cast aside the views of others who might take the game more seriously than yourself.
- 88
- Vancouver
- Brixwell
- rBroda
Have a feeling there will be much tuning on this as let's be honest its a pretty big new feature in the game. Granted I haven't played much online in other games, but I like the aspect of trying to get the masses as a whole to understand proper racecraft and etiquette.
My issues are more so when people go offline or track and come back in and knock you. Had two ten second penalties for someone clipping the curb and over rotating towards the inside lane just ahead of me and when they came back towards we came together.
I have a feeling this is more so regarding furthest car down the track, likely something to do if your car is behind in terms of actually where the front end of your car is in relation to the start/finish line, the car behind is at fault almost automatically.
Think this issue could be hard to change, but hoping over time this won't be as much an issue.
Still loving it and trying to drive with respect to other drivers. As it was mentioned before on this thread, I feel like i'm seeing a number of drivers that are trying to do the same.
My issues are more so when people go offline or track and come back in and knock you. Had two ten second penalties for someone clipping the curb and over rotating towards the inside lane just ahead of me and when they came back towards we came together.
I have a feeling this is more so regarding furthest car down the track, likely something to do if your car is behind in terms of actually where the front end of your car is in relation to the start/finish line, the car behind is at fault almost automatically.
Think this issue could be hard to change, but hoping over time this won't be as much an issue.
Still loving it and trying to drive with respect to other drivers. As it was mentioned before on this thread, I feel like i'm seeing a number of drivers that are trying to do the same.
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
Now I see how incidents happen..
My alarm bells are ringing when I'm quickly catching up guy on front of me, lifting throttle and starting to learn reasons why he's slow and wait for safe pass place/room.
It's not just a game when there's real-life players, against AI it's just a game.
My alarm bells are ringing when I'm quickly catching up guy on front of me, lifting throttle and starting to learn reasons why he's slow and wait for safe pass place/room.
It's not just a game when there's real-life players, against AI it's just a game.
- 574
- Daytona Beach
- sloppysmusic
I think whenever there is a collision whoever's fault it is the game should pause for all players and the two or more parties involved have to play a mini-game of handshakes and deep bowings of shame before they can continue. Plus that 2 minute video on etiquette is played each and every time. Name, shame and punish everyone for the transgression, just like being back at school. Except you cant wait for the school bell to get revenge.
- 780
- United States
This thing went off the rails fast.
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
- 823
- Planet Earth
- silz616
I think PD have done a really good job so far. Yes there is always room for improvement, but I have incurred very very few penalties while playing sport. I'm DR C SR S.
I did think they could improve the system by "ghosting" crashing cars, but when I thought about it, that would just mean everybody full throttling through incidents in front of them, not having to worry. Well that's not racing. I will back off, brake or swerve to avoid others. I'm situation-ally aware through mirrors and radar, so I won't swerve into others if I can help it. That one change of ghosting crashers would take you out of the race experience. You should have to drive accordingly. I do, and I have not suffered at the hands of penalties. If I get one, well that's racing and it's better than receiving car damage and being out of the race completely. That's where I think PD have got the balance right with an accessible online racing game, that's trying its best to teach every player to drive/race properly.
I also believe there are a lot of drivers who are trying to drive with the utmost respect... In my experience anyway.
Edit: OZZY! Was only listening to the Live and Loud album yesterday. Good taste
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- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
I have had this happen to me where someone tapped me in a very fast braking zone (the downhill on DPY...you know the one), sent me off into the wall and then stayed behind me while I recovered back to the tarmac. We both lost a spot to the guy in third but the three of us then had a real close race until the end. I've posted the replay on my profile in case anyone doesn't believe there are good people doing good racing. And if WickedFubar is on GTP, thumbs up to you! đź‘Ť
I think a lot of it has to do with the time you race. I race at 10-11pm CST most of the time and by then I think a lot of the "I'm here to win" crowd is off to bed or COD or Overwatch or whatever else. I've not had a bad race at that time slot but my sample is limited so far. I feel like weekends and "prime time" from about 5pm to 8pm is probably the worst time to expect good driving from the field.
They actually are written...see section 7 on contact concessions. These are intended to be used for GTP Leagues sure, but as you said they are more or less expected (written or not) in what people would call "clean racing".
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gtplanet-online-racing-olr-rules-guidelines.111241/
It's not the tapping/brushing/punting/breathing on that is the issue but the "advantage gained" in passing due to that action that people are taking issue with.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It's always nice to run across a fellow racer who is more concerned with fair play and not just there to win, or profit, even from unintentional errors. In the last two games I would immediately add these people to my friends list and after awhile you had a friends list populated with fair and clean racers.
- 45
- United Kingdom
A bit of rubbing and bumping is ok though dont you think ?
Full on rear ending is a no no i agree but sometimes people make mistakes it will happen even at high SR levels its the nature of motor racing .
- 220
- United States
When I get in a fender bender, I pull over and let the mean man pass. This urges the safety of all who drive.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Rubbing and bumping is a bit generic, but generally speaking yes.
- 1,245
- Greece
I like the sarcastic tone of your post but its not "my rules".
The game have videos of what is allowed and what is not.There are videos of how the developers expect people to race,what they descibe as "clean" racing and even they give info of basic rules to "casual" (some would say "noobs") on this matter.
With that said your original point was that SR is working well or by your words "the penalty system is OK".To prove that you made 3 examples of people (accidenlty or not) gaining advantage-position by hitting the car in front of them.
In all three examples,the offender never gave up the position he gained by that insident they caused.
In all three examples the penalty system did punish the "offender" by 2 or more seconds.
In all three examples no "pixel was harmed".
So in your opinion everything is good and ok.
I dont expect everyone to agree with me about what is a "clean" race or not.I'll give you that.After all its your "race",your moves,your fun.
"To then expect no contact whatsoever in a computer game is ridiculous, as is to expect everyone to give up positions just because that's what you happen to do."
Never did I wrote that I expect no contact,or that when contact is made someone should give up his position.On the other hand I do think that when change of position is a result of any contact (light or heavy) then the offender should be a good "sport" and give that position back.You dont agree with that,again cool by me.
But at least you have to recognize the fact that a system that gives penalties to both offender and victum is not working as it should.
Your real life example was good.So I say put full damage on,tyre wear,fuel consumption in every mode and I think that many reckless "players" would think twice before they start playing "recklessly" in every corner,no matter how fast or slow the guys in front of them are.
- 30
Well, that all went down the drain with Daily Races. People are not familiar with the track/car combination.
Last night was bumper cars all the way in every race I entered. In 3 races my rating went from S to B because of overly excited idiots ramming me from behind, left and right. Sportsmanship is being careful, not trying to overtake carelessly knowing the chances to get it right are slim.
It's sad to see that the only way to achieve a Clean Race and keep an S rating is to just botch the start, drive from last, keeping distance from opponents.
Last night was bumper cars all the way in every race I entered. In 3 races my rating went from S to B because of overly excited idiots ramming me from behind, left and right. Sportsmanship is being careful, not trying to overtake carelessly knowing the chances to get it right are slim.
It's sad to see that the only way to achieve a Clean Race and keep an S rating is to just botch the start, drive from last, keeping distance from opponents.
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- 574
- Daytona Beach
- sloppysmusic
It's the Real Sunday Driver Simulator!
- 105
- South West
It is a different beast now that they change daily for sure. I just went and practiced for the FIA rounds this weekend instead. It's a shame because although PD obviously intended these races to change daily, hence the name, in my opinion it actually worked better as weekly races. There is surely still hope for a compromise as the game settles in and patches are added.
Generally i think the racing has been pretty fair, the odd nudge here and there is expected. I can only really recall 1 incident which left me raging afterwards, last lap overtake on Dragontail lap 3 of 3 for 1st place, id had a better run out of a corner, pulled alongside near the end of the track and then smack, straight into my side on the grass and in the barrier - I ended up 5th.
Other than that pretty fair. Although, id like to apologise to the poor soul i hit while completely messing up myself sending them into the barrier also. They finished ahead of me still so no place to give back! oops!
Other than that pretty fair. Although, id like to apologise to the poor soul i hit while completely messing up myself sending them into the barrier also. They finished ahead of me still so no place to give back! oops!
A punt, a graze, a nudge, what's the difference? I made it clear that it was a small amount of contact, which did not result in the other car leaving the track or hitting the wall. Of course I'm being defensive - I've admitted to tapping the back of another car and everyone is acting like I'm some torpedo who purposely smashes players off at every turn. Before this thread i'd never even heard of players "giving back" places in online racing. Having only raced online in games like Forza, Racedriver Grid, and GTA Online racing, I've experienced plenty of dirty racing, and never giving any places back. If I was in an organised league where that behaviour is understood to be "how it's done", then I'd certainly oblige, but when being thrown in with randoms, I can't say I have any plan to concede places for any accidental contact. If you're playing by a different set of standards to the majority of the pack then you're never going to get anywhere.
When i said "revenge was tempting", that was regarding a completely different incident, where somebody attempted to pit manoeuvre me on purpose and caused me to go off the track. I also stated that I didn't touch him and just drove around him cleanly when I caught him.
No, I'm using the game angle to point our how stupid it is to start saying I'm devoid of morals. Sure, I didn't concede a place in a video game, but that doesn't mean I'm going to mug your Grandmother in real life. And no, you didn't say I was devoid of morals, but somebody did - evidently some people can't separate the game world from the real one.
No, it's just a game even when you're playing against real people. You must be a blast to play Monopoly with though...
How can you be playing to win or profit from unintentional errors? An unintentional error is just that, unintentional. If you pre-plan it, then it isn't unintentional. This brings me back to the point of my original post - I don't think all contact is made intentionally and actually most of it is probably just the result of a lack of talent/mixed talent within any given race/over exuberance/an expectation to win every race.
I made my post because the tone of the thread seemed to be that everyone online was an idiot and are all out to kill each other. I was trying to point out that actually, in the majority of cases I suspect it's all purely accidental and gave my experience as an example. I'm not out to knock everyone off, in fact I just want a clean race like everyone else, but I'm not perfect. The fact that everyone jumped on me for admitting this, and that I didn't then pull over and concede a place, goes to show that I was right - some people on here get far too precious about a bit of contact and rather than assume it was accidental, would much prefer to start name calling and bitching about "asshats" punting them off.
Either way, it sounds like I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of this game than some here, because I expect the contact and don't expect any concessions if contact happens. As such, I don't get irate with every bit of contact and just enjoy the game. In a real life race everyone has a lot to lose if a crash occurs (potentially their life). In a computer game you have nothing to lose except a few virtual points and a virtual position, so naturally contact is going to occur and it'll occur often. If this upsets you, then maybe this isn't the game for you.
Wholly crap guys. MBRuss was just trying to relate a story and you are laying into him because of semantic and phrases he used? He THOUGHT about vengeance (Haven't we all?) and he ACCIDENTALLY put someone out. Don't you guys have better candidates for your Forum Warrior attacks?
@MBRuss, I would suggest not using "its only a game" in my opinion. That always comes across as an excuse to be shady or a douche bag. (Not saying you were) It's only a game could be used in Sports too... doesn't mean its right. Quick Story.. my 9 year old daughter spend months building a world in Mindcraft. Someone came in and destroyed everything just to be a troll. She got upset.. saved and left. She was devastated, didnt think to not save. She was in tears and it broke my heart because I know how hard she worked on it. I wrote the kid and he said: It's just a game...
I know you are like that troll and your situation was MUCH different but "Just a game" really bothers me. There are real people on the other side and you do not know what kind of day they are having so... maybe its more than just a game for them. Just a thought.
@MBRuss, I would suggest not using "its only a game" in my opinion. That always comes across as an excuse to be shady or a douche bag. (Not saying you were) It's only a game could be used in Sports too... doesn't mean its right. Quick Story.. my 9 year old daughter spend months building a world in Mindcraft. Someone came in and destroyed everything just to be a troll. She got upset.. saved and left. She was devastated, didnt think to not save. She was in tears and it broke my heart because I know how hard she worked on it. I wrote the kid and he said: It's just a game...
I know you are like that troll and your situation was MUCH different but "Just a game" really bothers me. There are real people on the other side and you do not know what kind of day they are having so... maybe its more than just a game for them. Just a thought.
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