SR doesn't work. Tired of getting rear ended.

[PJTierney]

SR seems to be aggressively punishable now, at least based on the few races I've done today.

• I started my most recent race in SR.C.
• A driver grazed the back of my car through a fast section and ended up in the wall, however I got a 10 second penalty.
• Later on I messed up my approach to a hairpin and tapped another car, getting another 10 seconds.
• Both penalties were served via Slow Down so no post-race penalties there.
• I ended up in SR.E.

I'll get back up to SR.C fairly quickly I imagine, but it's a little discouraging to have 1 minor error on my end (and a bigger one by another driver) result in me getting 20 seconds of penalties + 2 de-ranks.

I'm hoping to get back up to where I was in the Closed Beta (B/S) but that's going to take some time and a bit of luck.

 

[rono_thomas]

An online race of mine with @PvtCartman didnt know he was a GTP member until after the race, but anyhows the point is there is contact, 3:20 and 5:00, we both could have pressed the advantage and gained a position but neither of us did this is just an example of an unintentional contact where racing respect (I’ll name) is evident in the sports mode.

 

[Fonty]

I can't complain with the races especially with people in Dr C\SR S, sometimes I'll be harassing a driver in front and they'll be like 'sod that!' and have let me past and the same has happened with me where I overtook a car I knew was faster than me in qualification and I want about to do 3 laps of defending because that's when you spin out and lose even more places, you can go mate.

 

[Raific]

WOW.. nice racing! Wish I could drive like that! GJ.

An online race of mine with @PvtCartman didnt know he was a GTP member until after the race, but anyhows the point is there is contact, 3:20 and 5:00, we both could have pressed the advantage and gained a position but neither of us did this is just an example of an unintentional contact where racing respect (I’ll name) is evident in the sports mode.

 

[JulesDennis]

A punt, a graze, a nudge, what's the difference? I made it clear that it was a small amount of contact, which did not result in the other car leaving the track or hitting the wall. Of course I'm being defensive - I've admitted to tapping the back of another car and everyone is acting like I'm some torpedo who purposely smashes players off at every turn. Before this thread i'd never even heard of players "giving back" places in online racing. Having only raced online in games like Forza, Racedriver Grid, and GTA Online racing, I've experienced plenty of dirty racing, and never giving any places back. If I was in an organised league where that behaviour is understood to be "how it's done", then I'd certainly oblige, but when being thrown in with randoms, I can't say I have any plan to concede places for any accidental contact. If you're playing by a different set of standards to the majority of the pack then you're never going to get anywhere.

When i said "revenge was tempting", that was regarding a completely different incident, where somebody attempted to pit manoeuvre me on purpose and caused me to go off the track. I also stated that I didn't touch him and just drove around him cleanly when I caught him.



No, I'm using the game angle to point our how stupid it is to start saying I'm devoid of morals. Sure, I didn't concede a place in a video game, but that doesn't mean I'm going to mug your Grandmother in real life. And no, you didn't say I was devoid of morals, but somebody did - evidently some people can't separate the game world from the real one.



No, it's just a game even when you're playing against real people. You must be a blast to play Monopoly with though...



How can you be playing to win or profit from unintentional errors? An unintentional error is just that, unintentional. If you pre-plan it, then it isn't unintentional. This brings me back to the point of my original post - I don't think all contact is made intentionally and actually most of it is probably just the result of a lack of talent/mixed talent within any given race/over exuberance/an expectation to win every race.

I made my post because the tone of the thread seemed to be that everyone online was an idiot and are all out to kill each other. I was trying to point out that actually, in the majority of cases I suspect it's all purely accidental and gave my experience as an example. I'm not out to knock everyone off, in fact I just want a clean race like everyone else, but I'm not perfect. The fact that everyone jumped on me for admitting this, and that I didn't then pull over and concede a place, goes to show that I was right - some people on here get far too precious about a bit of contact and rather than assume it was accidental, would much prefer to start name calling and bitching about "asshats" punting them off.

Either way, it sounds like I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of this game than some here, because I expect the contact and don't expect any concessions if contact happens. As such, I don't get irate with every bit of contact and just enjoy the game. In a real life race everyone has a lot to lose if a crash occurs (potentially their life). In a computer game you have nothing to lose except a few virtual points and a virtual position, so naturally contact is going to occur and it'll occur often. If this upsets you, then maybe this isn't the game for you.

I agree with your here since you make good points.
Your online racing experience is Forza,GTA and co,itsts logical to "I've experienced plenty of dirty racing, and never giving any places back" or similar situations.
GTS is supposed to be different than......GTA.It is trying to be the iRacing of Ps4.It is actually trying to enforce the "rule-book" of organized leagues into the "casual" player base (thats why we have the DR and SR).Some people expect that when they race.
Accidents are gonna happen.Even the super clean/fast (esport pro) gamers do make mistakes.There is a difference between making a mistake and being reckless (again I am not saying you are reckeless).
Giving back the position I won after my mistake,is the way to say to you "hey mate,my bad".Thats the only point.Some people do that,others dont.
Maybe its because I've raced alot in organized leagues in sim racing games,I have a different prespective about online racing.I can leave with "contact" btw because its also part of racing.But there is "contact" and "contact".Not always is intentional or unintentional.By now I have a lot of experience not to get into "payback" mode.I guess you are too.
I just want to make it clear:I am not attacking you,but I am attacking the logic that says
"I hit someone and because of that I won a position.Thats fine because I was faster anyway".

 

[MBRuss]

Wholly crap guys. MBRuss was just trying to relate a story and you are laying into him because of semantic and phrases he used? He THOUGHT about vengeance (Haven't we all?) and he ACCIDENTALLY put someone out. Don't you guys have better candidates for your Forum Warrior attacks?

@MBRuss, I would suggest not using "its only a game" in my opinion. That always comes across as an excuse to be shady or a douche bag. (Not saying you were) It's only a game could be used in Sports too... doesn't mean its right. Quick Story.. my 9 year old daughter spend months building a world in Mindcraft. Someone came in and destroyed everything just to be a troll. She got upset.. saved and left. She was devastated, didnt think to not save. She was in tears and it broke my heart because I know how hard she worked on it. I wrote the kid and he said: It's just a game...

I know you are like that troll and your situation was MUCH different but "Just a game" really bothers me. There are real people on the other side and you do not know what kind of day they are having so... maybe its more than just a game for them. Just a thought.

Thanks Raific, and I get your point about the "it's only a game" thing - but in my defence, that was in response to somebody attacking me personally, as if my morals were in question because of what I did in a computer game. It was an accident and no malice was intended, unlike in your daughter's case.

I hope her experience didn't put her off playing Minecraft?

 

[OdeFinn]

No, it's just a game even when you're playing against real people. You must be a blast to play Monopoly with though...

There's lot of different type games in this world, even your example monopoly, there's no mention on monopoly rule book which says at stealing from bank or from other player is not allowed, so it's just a game and that's just ok? If you accidentally pocket opponent money on your stash then you don't need to give them back, a) because it wasn't on purpose, b) you were winning anyway c) etc..
You should really think your logic bit further, sportsmanship is everything over any rules or regulations and good sportsmanship is part of every person vs. person(s) game in this planet.

 

[rono_thomas]

Quick Story.. my 9 year old daughter spend months building a world in Mindcraft. Someone came in and destroyed everything just to be a troll. She got upset.. saved and left. She was devastated, didnt think to not save. She was in tears and it broke my heart because I know how hard she worked on it. I wrote the kid and he said: It's just a game...

Totally relate to this, my son and daughter (Both Autistic) absolutely love this game and have had this happen to them, and will refuse to play minecraft with anyone because of their experiences.

WOW.. nice racing! Wish I could drive like that! GJ.

It has been the most enjoyable race so far it was a shame it wasn’t longer.

There is a big positive to draw from the matchmaking, it takes a lot of trust to be able to race close like that, but from what I’ve experienced the matchmaking has been pairing me with racers who can be given that trust. But it is something that I assess early on in a race of what type of racers others are, my biggest clue is the racing lines they choose and how tight they run to kerbs on corner entry and exit, I find that a good judgement on what level they are used to racing.

 

[MBRuss]

I agree with your here since you make good points.
Your online racing experience is Forza,GTA and co,itsts logical to "I've experienced plenty of dirty racing, and never giving any places back" or similar situations.
GTS is supposed to be different than......GTA.It is trying to be the iRacing of Ps4.It is actually trying to enforce the "rule-book" of organized leagues into the "casual" player base (thats why we have the DR and SR).Some people expect that when they race.
Accidents are gonna happen.Even the super clean/fast (esport pro) gamers do make mistakes.There is a difference between making a mistake and being reckless (again I am not saying you are reckeless).
Giving back the position I won after my mistake,is the way to say to you "hey mate,my bad".Thats the only point.Some people do that,others dont.
Maybe its because I've raced alot in organized leagues in sim racing games,I have a different prespective about online racing.I can leave with "contact" btw because its also part of racing.But there is "contact" and "contact".Not always is intentional or unintentional.By now I have a lot of experience not to get into "payback" mode.I guess you are too.
I just want to make it clear:I am not attacking you,but I am attacking the logic that says
"I hit someone and because of that I won a position.Thats fine because I was faster anyway".

Perhaps I came across wrong with that statement then. I don't think it's OK to shove people off just because I'm faster, however, to me it would seem silly to hand the place back to him when I'd only have to try to pass him again on the next corner and we could possibly tangle again, resulting in both of us dropping further down the grid than if we had just left things. Most likely I would have been passed him on that corner regardless of whether or not I hit him. He broke early, so had I not been directly behind him I'd have been straight up his inside or outside instead. It's unfortunate that I tapped him slightly wide, but I just kept my head down and carried on. As it was, the "bump" barely made any difference to him and he was right behind me, but quickly dropped away and a lap or so later was overtaken by the guy in 3rd, who was also pretty quick.

I understand that might not fit with the forum's racing rules, but then I am new here and have never stepped foot in whatever section mentions the GTP etiquette rules. I don't have enough time to get into the game that seriously, but if I raced with GTP members and that's the way you race then I'd race alike. With randoms I doubt I'll be conceding places, as there's so much contact that you'd be forever conceding to other players and most likely rarely have anyone do the same in return. If I had a particularly good duel with somebody of equal speed to me and accidentally hit them wide then I may concede though, assuming they were also driving cleanly. Yesterday I had a good duel with a Huracan (I was also in a Huracan) and went to all kinds of lengths to avoid contact, in many instances driving wide onto slippery kerbs or ending up off the track, even when slightly in front of the other car. It's not like I'm looking for contact.

As an aside, another player went wide and hit the wall after a hairpin turn on Dragon Tail, stopping pretty much dead on the rumble strip on the outside of the corner. I happily came along, hit the apex and was lined up right for the rumble strip. Doh. Nothing I could do, hit him and got pinballed all over the place. Top that with a 10 second penalty and my race was ruined. The SR system isn't perfect, but IMHO, it makes GTS far cleaner than any other racing game I've played online.

Suffice to say, the crashed car stopped on the racing line didn't hang around to let me past, but then I didn't expect it to.

 

[PJTierney]

Before this thread i'd never even heard of players "giving back" places in online racing. Having only raced online in games like Forza, Racedriver Grid, and GTA Online racing, I've experienced plenty of dirty racing, and never giving any places back. If I was in an organised league where that behaviour is understood to be "how it's done", then I'd certainly oblige, but when being thrown in with randoms, I can't say I have any plan to concede places for any accidental contact. If you're playing by a different set of standards to the majority of the pack then you're never going to get anywhere.

In any racing game without a penalty system, if I feel like I genuinely messed up and caused another driver to go off-track, I'll slow down and give the position back. I do it a lot in Forza despite that game being a "wild west" environment. In a game with penalties I'll let the system judge if I should be punished or not, and aim to keep things clean wherever possible regardless.

When racing in matchmaked lobbies the results are meaningless anyway, so it doesn't matter if I finish 1st or 5th. If I give an unearned place back though it creates good sentiment in the other player, who may be encouraged to race more cleanly themselves if they haven't before.

Likewise, if I have a good clean battle with somebody I'll send them a "good race" message afterwards, which is usually reciprocated.

 

[Matt368]

Thanks Raific, and I get your point about the "it's only a game" thing - but in my defence, that was in response to somebody attacking me personally, as if my morals were in question because of what I did in a computer game. It was an accident and no malice was intended, unlike in your daughter's case.

I'd just like say that I apologize if my comments were some of those that came across this way, it was absolutely not my intention.

 

[MBRuss]

There's lot of different type games in this world, even your example monopoly, there's no mention on monopoly rule book which says at stealing from bank or from other player is not allowed, so it's just a game and that's just ok? If you accidentally pocket opponent money on your stash then you don't need to give them back, a) because it wasn't on purpose, b) you were winning anyway c) etc..
You should really think your logic bit further, sportsmanship is everything over any rules or regulations and good sportsmanship is part of every person vs. person(s) game in this planet.

No, my logic is sound - Monopoly, like GTS, is just a game. You can choose to take it too seriously if you want to, but its sole purpose is fun. The fact that other people are playing it with you doesn't change the fact that it's still a game.

But whatever, if you want to think I'm some morally bankrupt Dick Dastardly because I didn't concede a place, that's your prerogative.

I'd just like say that I apologize if my comments were some of those that came across this way, it was absolutely not my intention.

I don't actually think it was you. Somebody specifically said I was dishonourable and lacked other various qualities. Doesn't really bother me (this is the internet!) but it did seem to indicate that far too much importance was being placed on people's actions (intentional or otherwise) in a game. I get that people get really into games and invest a lot of time into them, but not following a set of rules used by a specific group of people is hardly any reflection of who you are outside of the game.

I just think that some of the people posting all these genuine "fed up of being shunted by *****" threads (although the OP of this thread is actually a parody of them) really need to sit back, chill out a bit and realise that not everyone invests hundreds of hours a month into playing the game, and therefore may accidentally contact you from time to time.

Even when somebody purposely shunts me I don't get angry. It's online gaming and I'm old enough and wise enough to know that, for the most part, people act like dicks online, because they can. Getting mad about it usually only makes them do it more or get more satisfaction from it.

 

[Raific]

@MBRuss It was a tough life lesson. She now is more careful to who she allows into her world and after a couple weeks went back to the game.

@rono_thomas That really sucks that it turned out that way. As a parent I hate that there is so little accountability in how people act on the internet. But I guess that is the world we live it. Your children have an extra challenge so I am sure it is an extra burden.

As for the game, I have taken a serious hit in SR since the Weekly to Daily change so the races are starting to get much less enjoyable for me. I can't even fall to the back of the pack without getting bumped for an SR hit. I move over to let someone by and they STILL bump me. Last night we were on the home stretch to finish the race and I drafted the guy in front of me. I knew I could not take him so was OK just rolling in behind him. Right before the finish line, he locked up his breaks hard on me and I got SR downed and lost another place. No idea why I got the SR down on a straight away. Was really rotten of him. I wasn't even trying to pass and I did not even care about the placement. Just trying to get my SR back. Hopefully I can climb back up this weekend!

 

[OdeFinn]

No, my logic is sound - Monopoly, like GTS, is just a game. You can choose to take it too seriously if you want to, but its sole purpose is fun. The fact that other people are playing it with you doesn't change the fact that it's still a game.

But whatever, if you want to think I'm some morally bankrupt Dick Dastardly because I didn't concede a place, that's your prerogative.

Sole purpose is fun, but not just your fun, but everyone's fun, that's reason why sportsmanship is there, giving all opportunity to enjoy equally.

 

[MBRuss]

Sole purpose is fun, but not just your fun, but everyone's fun, that's reason why sportsmanship is there, giving all opportunity to enjoy equally.

Right, but if your fun can be completely ruined by a tiny piece of contact, then you're going to have a really bad time online, because very few people are going to wave you past whenever they come into contact with your car. Does that mean they're all assholes? If you think so then you're going to be raging at an awful lot of people.

 

[rsergio007]

Well, "it's just a game" like "you are just an idiot".

 

[Johnnypenso]

A punt, a graze, a nudge, what's the difference? I made it clear that it was a small amount of contact, which did not result in the other car leaving the track or hitting the wall. Of course I'm being defensive - I've admitted to tapping the back of another car and everyone is acting like I'm some torpedo who purposely smashes players off at every turn. Before this thread i'd never even heard of players "giving back" places in online racing. Having only raced online in games like Forza, Racedriver Grid, and GTA Online racing, I've experienced plenty of dirty racing, and never giving any places back. If I was in an organised league where that behaviour is understood to be "how it's done", then I'd certainly oblige, but when being thrown in with randoms, I can't say I have any plan to concede places for any accidental contact. If you're playing by a different set of standards to the majority of the pack then you're never going to get anywhere.

When i said "revenge was tempting", that was regarding a completely different incident, where somebody attempted to pit manoeuvre me on purpose and caused me to go off the track. I also stated that I didn't touch him and just drove around him cleanly when I caught him.



No, I'm using the game angle to point our how stupid it is to start saying I'm devoid of morals. Sure, I didn't concede a place in a video game, but that doesn't mean I'm going to mug your Grandmother in real life. And no, you didn't say I was devoid of morals, but somebody did - evidently some people can't separate the game world from the real one.



No, it's just a game even when you're playing against real people. You must be a blast to play Monopoly with though...



How can you be playing to win or profit from unintentional errors? An unintentional error is just that, unintentional. If you pre-plan it, then it isn't unintentional. This brings me back to the point of my original post - I don't think all contact is made intentionally and actually most of it is probably just the result of a lack of talent/mixed talent within any given race/over exuberance/an expectation to win every race.

I made my post because the tone of the thread seemed to be that everyone online was an idiot and are all out to kill each other. I was trying to point out that actually, in the majority of cases I suspect it's all purely accidental and gave my experience as an example. I'm not out to knock everyone off, in fact I just want a clean race like everyone else, but I'm not perfect. The fact that everyone jumped on me for admitting this, and that I didn't then pull over and concede a place, goes to show that I was right - some people on here get far too precious about a bit of contact and rather than assume it was accidental, would much prefer to start name calling and bitching about "asshats" punting them off.

Either way, it sounds like I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of this game than some here, because I expect the contact and don't expect any concessions if contact happens. As such, I don't get irate with every bit of contact and just enjoy the game. In a real life race everyone has a lot to lose if a crash occurs (potentially their life). In a computer game you have nothing to lose except a few virtual points and a virtual position, so naturally contact is going to occur and it'll occur often. If this upsets you, then maybe this isn't the game for you.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds it ironic that you are so bent out of shape and going to such great lengths to defend yourself in an anonymous internet forum. You should take your own advice:

1. It's just a computer forum.......on a pc, tablet or other device, not a real life conversation.
2. No damage was caused by any pixels because it's not personal. No one knows you.
3. There's no onus or suggestion in this forum that we should refrain from calling your posts as we seem them. No one is playing dirty, we're just posting. It happens.

So don't worry. Shouldn't bother you at all. No big deal. It's a part of being on a forum.

For anyone interested, I found the GTP OLR when I first started racing online with the release of GT5 and I liked it so much I followed it in any leagues I've been in and when racing anonymously online. It doesn't really assign blame so much as it lays out codes of conduct for various racing situation. There is a very high emphasis on the responsibility of a following driver and the rights of the ahead driver. Basically, in the absence of malicious conduct, the driver behind has all the responsibility for contact whether it's intentional or accidental. Intent is irrelevant. You are expected to leave enough room to be able to brake in time for anything except for brake checking in a two player battle.

Of course it's not for everyone, it sets the bar very high in terms of personal conduct and onus of responsibility when racing online. It recognizes that racing online is not the same as in real life and raises the expectations of honour and integrity from each driver. Here are some excerpts:

G: You are expected to behave like sporting gentlemen at all times.
L: No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect.
A: Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.
B: Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.
C: Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.
A: The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.
B: In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, but can prevent an accident by steering into the dirt, grass or a wall, you are expected to do so.
C: The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.
A: If there's contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.

 

[MBRuss]

Well, "it's just a game" like "you are just an idiot".

Hit a nerve, did I?!

I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds it ironic that you are so bent out of shape and going to such great lengths to defend yourself in an anonymous internet forum. You should take your own advice:

1. It's just a computer forum.......on a pc, tablet or other device, not a real life conversation.
2. No damage was caused by any pixels because it's not personal. No one knows you.
3. There's no onus or suggestion in this forum that we should refrain from calling your posts as we seem them. No one is playing dirty, we're just posting. It happens.

So don't worry. Shouldn't bother you at all. No big deal. It's a part of being on a forum.

For anyone interested, I found the GTP OLR when I first started racing online with the release of GT5 and I liked it so much I followed it in any leagues I've been in and when racing anonymously online. It doesn't really assign blame so much as it lays out codes of conduct for various racing situation. There is a very high emphasis on the responsibility of a following driver and the rights of the ahead driver. Basically, in the absence of malicious conduct, the driver behind has all the responsibility for contact whether it's intentional or accidental. Intent is irrelevant. You are expected to leave enough room to be able to brake in time for anything except for brake checking in a two player battle.

Of course it's not for everyone, it sets the bar very high in terms of personal conduct and onus of responsibility when racing online. It recognizes that racing online is not the same as in real life and raises the expectations of honour and integrity from each driver. Here are some excerpts:

G: You are expected to behave like sporting gentlemen at all times.
L: No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect.
A: Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.
B: Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.
C: Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.
A: The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.
B: In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, but can prevent an accident by steering into the dirt, grass or a wall, you are expected to do so.
C: The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.
A: If there's contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.

TL : DR Zzzzzz

 

[DigitalBaka]

No, my logic is sound - Monopoly, like GTS, is just a game. You can choose to take it too seriously if you want to, but its sole purpose is fun. The fact that other people are playing it with you doesn't change the fact that it's still a game.

Let me start by saying that I am not attacking you specifically but rather the "It's just a game" mentality.

It's 100% bullpucky.

Whether something is a "game" or "work" or something to take seriously or not there are more factors to take into account. @Raific 's example is perfect. The person who came through and destroyed his daughter's work was probably having their own brand of "fun" because it's a "game". There's no rules that said they couldn't do that, no game mechanics that prevented it. So it's OK, right? Then why do most (all?) of us, yourself included judging by your response, agree that person is a scumbag? Because there is more to it than just following mechanical rules and what you physically or digitally can or cannot do.

So let's go to your example then. Do I feel like it's a big, game-changing incident? No. I think the results in the end would have been the same by your description of events. However, using "I'm faster anyway" as reasoning for being....shall we say "less sporting" about it, is weak at best. If you are faster there should be no problem with letting him by or not taking the pass and following it up later with a pass without the contact. Any future "tangle" is minimized by the fact that you have more information about how he drives. You pass clean and win anyway and he doesn't go to the internet to rant about "some idiot hit me and cost me my race". Not saying you're an idiot, of course, just saying this is the nature of every rant post I've seen.

Let's also take "bullpucky" as an example. I know most of us here know what I actually want to say there, but because I'm in a public forum where there may be younger folk around or people who don't like that sort of language I toned it back a bit. Can I actually type out the other word? You bet. But can is not the same as should. I see from your responses that you do get that so I hope you don't think I'm saying you're an awful person and should be banned blah blah blah.

I get that online gaming experiences vary greatly but I'd like to think that every member of this forum holds themselves to a higher standard than the destruction derby masses that are out there. I've seen people disqualify themselves from a weekly TT because their submission cut a corner or they had a wheel off too far. I've seen people wait at the back of a multi-car wreck they've caused for everyone involved to get going again even as the rest of the field passes them up. For me, there's no reason you can't be a sportsman and have fun and win all at the same time.

 

[ddrjay]

The Gr. 4 race from yesterday screwed me terribly. Went from SR A down to C because of the first hairpin turn, race after race. My qualifier was 1:52 so I kept getting placed up front (anywhere from 3rd to 8th) which makes it very difficult for me to avoid drivers BEHIND me, something that is impossible without the viewpoints that have mirrors.

Also, regarding giving up your position if you wrongfully gained it, I really wished that GT Sport negated the orange SR if you bump someone and give them back their position.

Nonetheless, I'm still having fun with this game. Most fun I've had with a GT game possibly ever.

 

[MBRuss]

I agree, there are certain standards of conduct, that's why I don't go around slamming every other car into the wall. I'm not trying to ruin the game for anyone. I literally out-braked myself on this one occasion because I didn't expect the driver in front to brake as early as he did.

I'm also not new to online gaming, and I know the most prevalent attitude online is a dog-eat-dog one. As such, with random players I don't offer anything back outside of what is deemed necessary by the mechanics of the game. I can see now that viewpoint is an unpopular one around here, but my opinion on the matter is unlikely to change. I'll abide by the rules the game sets and not add extra concessions in just because that's what a select group of other people happen to do. As pointed out, even in various types of real life racing such concessions aren't expected or enforced. I have no gentleman's agreement in place with the randoms I'm paired with to concede a place if we make contact, and don't expect other players to hand back places to me if they gain an advantage from hitting me. (That has never once happened to me.)

Had I been playing with people I knew, or playing an organised forum race or something, then I'd gladly abide the additional sportsmanship expectations of that particular group, but in sessions with the very "asshats" that people here have been ranting about, I'm not likely to add extra concessions to make their lives more hunky-dory, especially when the favour is unlikely to be returned.

Amazing how one tiny accidental tap can be blown so far out of proportion though, not to mention that in the same forum there's a thread on how to use an exploit to rack up credits, mileage points, and ranking quickly without even playing the game. I don't see anyone bitching in that thread about morals and integrity though... funny that.

 

[OdeFinn]

Right, but if your fun can be completely ruined by a tiny piece of contact, then you're going to have a really bad time online, because very few people are going to wave you past whenever they come into contact with your car. Does that mean they're all assholes? If you think so then you're going to be raging at an awful lot of people.

My experience of online races are way different. Yes there is sometimes kids playing just game, but those are really really small minority and avoiding contact with those is mostly easy.

About sportsmanship, inside you and game rating, no-one can set your internal beliefs or thoughts about how you should represent your sportsmanship manner to others, only you can do it, game instead has only brutal calculator trying to rate your acts on track and transform that to sportsmanship rating, which some cases works fine and some cases not, every system can be "cheated", as well GTS rating. I'm just asking you to rethink bit of your approach to sportsmanship, no-one is perfect, but we can learn lot.

 

[MBRuss]

My experience of online races are way different. Yes there is sometimes kids playing just game, but those are really really small minority and avoiding contact with those is mostly easy.

About sportsmanship, inside you and game rating, no-one can set your internal beliefs or thoughts about how you should represent your sportsmanship manner to others, only you can do it, game instead has only brutal calculator trying to rate your acts on track and transform that to sportsmanship rating, which some cases works fine and some cases not, every system can be "cheated", as well GTS rating. I'm just asking you to rethink bit of your approach to sportsmanship, no-one is perfect, but we can learn lot.

Perhaps my view of other gamers is skewed from, well, pretty much every game I've ever played online, but I expect all players to use every exploit, cheat, and dirty rotten way of "getting one over" on me at every opportunity. As such, it had never occurred to me to be overly generous and sportsmanlike with randoms, because, well, they're unlikely to return the favour. Chances are, I'll slow down to let a guy back past and he'll purposely ram me because he interpreted our collision (like many on here) as an intentional ramming and therefore hit me back out of spite.

My first thought was "oops, he's probably not too happy that I bumped him, best get away from him ASAP to prevent him punting me off in retaliation". Mainly because that's what has happened in other games I've played.

Perhaps I'm getting skeptical after all these years online...

 

[mattvieri]

Well I'm finding there is a knack to putting people out of the race without taking SR, you have to be more subtle. A deliberate racing incident, doesn't work every time but more often than not and it is satisfying when you get it right. Don't get me wrong I'm strongly advocating totally clean racing as that's why most of us are here talking about it. If someone has their nose up the inside I give space try to avoid the contact,concede the place if need be and try to get back fairly. However when I'm skirting the limits of the braking makers and someone blatantly stuffs it up the inside from 3 cars back and uses you as a buffer, then they are having an incident at the next available opportunity. During the 3 lap races doesn't matter but if your vesting a decent bit of time into the 10 lap race then there's no mercy if you're driving like a melon

 

[DigitalBaka]

I agree, there are certain standards of conduct, that's why I don't go around slamming every other car into the wall. I'm not trying to ruin the game for anyone. I literally out-braked myself on this one occasion because I didn't expect the driver in front to brake as early as he did.

I'm also not new to online gaming, and I know the most prevalent attitude online is a dog-eat-dog one. As such, with random players I don't offer anything back outside of what is deemed necessary by the mechanics of the game. I can see now that viewpoint is an unpopular one around here, but my opinion on the matter is unlikely to change. I'll abide by the rules the game sets and not add extra concessions in just because that's what a select group of other people happen to do. As pointed out, even in various types of real life racing such concessions aren't expected or enforced. I have no gentleman's agreement in place with the randoms I'm paired with to concede a place if we make contact, and don't expect other players to hand back places to me if they gain an advantage from hitting me. (That has never once happened to me.)

Had I been playing with people I knew, or playing an organised forum race or something, then I'd gladly abide the additional sportsmanship expectations of that particular group, but in sessions with the very "asshats" that people here have been ranting about, I'm not likely to add extra concessions to make their lives more hunky-dory, especially when the favour is unlikely to be returned.

I understand that point of view and respect that you have it though I don't agree with it. I'm OK giving concessions even with randoms that don't expect it because then I've done right by myself and my sense of fair play. I don't expect to change anyone's mind because I do what I do. That said, I can still enjoy a race with folks that share your view. Those torpedo d-bags though.....

Amazing how one tiny accidental tap can be blown so far out of proportion though, not to mention that in the same forum there's a thread on how to use an exploit to rack up credits, mileage points, and ranking quickly without even playing the game. I don't see anyone bitching in that thread about morals and integrity though... funny that.

I've done my ranting about that too a while back. I was OK when it was leave B-Spec Bob on overnight to get some "AFK credits" because who actually wants to watch that idiot run off the track and come to a stop at every corner for 12 or 24 hours? This rubberband/tape garbage is lazy, stupid and just about equal to buying eBayed MMO accounts with max level, end-game raid-geared toons in my eyes. Not only did you not earn the status, you didn't get the skill to use it that comes with putting in the work.

But that's for another thread...

 

[JC0105]

Hi guys.

Is there a way to actually report someone for really bad driving?

Just come off a race where 3 times in 10 laps some absolute moron rammed me into slow corner, every time I eventually got back passed him again only for it happen again.

Now and again I don’t mind but it was clearly his technique and it cheesed me right off!

Cheers

 

[Johnnypenso]

I agree, there are certain standards of conduct, that's why I don't go around slamming every other car into the wall. I'm not trying to ruin the game for anyone. I literally out-braked myself on this one occasion because I didn't expect the driver in front to brake as early as he did.

I'm also not new to online gaming, and I know the most prevalent attitude online is a dog-eat-dog one. As such, with random players I don't offer anything back outside of what is deemed necessary by the mechanics of the game. I can see now that viewpoint is an unpopular one around here, but my opinion on the matter is unlikely to change. I'll abide by the rules the game sets and not add extra concessions in just because that's what a select group of other people happen to do. As pointed out, even in various types of real life racing such concessions aren't expected or enforced. I have no gentleman's agreement in place with the randoms I'm paired with to concede a place if we make contact, and don't expect other players to hand back places to me if they gain an advantage from hitting me. (That has never once happened to me.)

Had I been playing with people I knew, or playing an organised forum race or something, then I'd gladly abide the additional sportsmanship expectations of that particular group, but in sessions with the very "asshats" that people here have been ranting about, I'm not likely to add extra concessions to make their lives more hunky-dory, especially when the favour is unlikely to be returned.

Amazing how one tiny accidental tap can be blown so far out of proportion though, not to mention that in the same forum there's a thread on how to use an exploit to rack up credits, mileage points, and ranking quickly without even playing the game. I don't see anyone bitching in that thread about morals and integrity though... funny that.

The difference between racing games and most other games is that in FPS and like games your goal is to destroy the enemy given whatever tools the game provides. Courtesy and respect isn't expected becaise it goes against the intended purpose of the game. In racing, real and virtual, certain positive behaviours revolving around courtesy and respect for other players is expected. The obvious ones are to respect someone's racing line in side by side battles, avoid purposeful hard contact etc. The "expect no quarter, give no quarter" mentality leads to people treating racing games like GTA or COD and makes for a lousy online experience for those that wish for a more simulation like experience. It only takes one or two like that in an entire lobby to ruin the experience for everyone involved.

In my experience, giving the position back rarely results in any retribution for other players. In fact, I can't recall it ever happening. It's a way of communicating non-verbally to other players that you made a mistake and you're willing to resolve it by making a sacrifice. It encourages fairplay in others if nothing else.

 

[Raific]

Not to go off track but I would like to give a kudos to this community. I know some of the posts got a bit terse but all in all everyone is still at a much higher level of gamer conduct that I have seen in pretty much any game. I am new to racing (I have played racing games but never a dedicated fan) so learning a lot. I have played games like League of Legends, Overwatch, MMORPGs and others. The forums in LOL is complete vile at best. Goes down from there. But in here, it seems people are holding each other to a much higher standard.

Anywhere else a "bump to advance" would be scoffed at and not be given a second thought. Here, for right or wrong, it is frowned upon and even ridiculed. Regardless which side of the fence you are on, it is great to see a community that has the level of integrity that does hold each other to such a high standard. I am impressed.

Hopefully that all made sense!

 

[Tekku]

A good qualifying time is your only shot at a clean race atm. If you're mid-pack at the start of the race then it's a game of survival. Pray for the best but don't expect any miracles.

 

[Earth]

They have to stop giving penalties to people who get dive bombed in corners. Its getting so lame and old. So tired of a guy coming from 5 car lengths back, spearing my door in a corner at the apex and I get a 10 second penalty. Beyond ridiculous.