SRT TOMAHAWK VISION GT OT (Now available)

Oh, I am not thinking the X is the only Tomahawk out there, not by any means. It's just the Tomahawk that most people tend to refer to, simply because of its specs. I'll be sure to think of all three versions in the same, fair spectrum.

Also, thanks for the scary as everything gif. :scared: :lol:
 
Oops, my mistake, forgot about the fact that the fan doesn't aid propulsion; it IS the propulsion. Still, the multi-flaps from the Tomahawk X could be used for the car. I'm not really sure that RedBull wants to give the X car even more horsepower, it's already hard enough to control the current, fan-ladden X2015 as it is...

But thanks for clarifying, nonetheless.

Actually the fan on the Red Bull doesn't aid nor is the propulsion. It's only to create a low pressure area under the car. What propels the car is the V6 engine.
I also don't know if Red Bull would want to beat the SRT Tomahawk. Personally I want to see the Red Bulls become more efficient, while maintaining the same performance, like what they did with the X2015.

Also I would love to see that presentation were the SRT guys explain how the car works beacuse I'd like to see how they reached 11G's on the turns with the X. If I knew more about the technology onborad I would like the car more, as I'm a bit sceptic about the X. I'm anxious about the S and the GTS-R though.
 
Oh, I am not thinking the X is the only Tomahawk out there, not by any means. It's just the Tomahawk that most people tend to refer to, simply because of its specs. I'll be sure to think of all three versions in the same, fair spectrum.

Also, thanks for the scary as everything gif. :scared: :lol:

You mean this gif?

(Cerial is braking & cornering, power is milk.)

Yes, I'm a scientist.

community_image_1404256580.gif


I too, hate it when people spell the name "Tomohawk" incorrectly. It's a real irritation.

Tomohawk. :dunce:
 
Well, if RedBull isn't interested on besting the X, I think we're good. They could always "borrow" the propulsion from the 2X and the multi-flaps from the Tomahawk to aid the aerodynamics of a future X2016 (shouldn't it be 2016 as opposed to 2017?). Couple that with ground effects and I bet you could have enough grip to glue yourself to the moon... :lol:

Scrap the ground effects and go for a VTOL like system where some of the laser power is diverted to keep the vehicle off the ground and you'll have a prototype Wipeout machine!
 
Scrap the ground effects and go for a VTOL like system where some of the laser power is diverted to keep the vehicle off the ground and you'll have a prototype Wipeout machine!

I don't think that Gran Turismo's game engine is ready for that, not yet at least... :lol:
 
Well, if RedBull isn't interested on besting the X, I think we're good. They could always "borrow" the propulsion from the 2X and the multi-flaps from the Tomahawk to aid the aerodynamics of a future X2016 (shouldn't it be 2016 as opposed to 2017?). Couple that with ground effects and I bet you could have enough grip to glue yourself to the moon... :lol:

The Tomahawk X won't beat the Red Bull. As long as that fan is working, it'll still be undefeated.
 
The Tomahawk X won't beat the Red Bull. As long as that fan is working, it'll still be undefeated.

Quite. Aerodynamics and overall grip are still the territory of the Red Bull X cars. With those ground effects and the Venturi thingmajig working in tandem, the X2015 can grip to the road quite like no other futuristic race car. Even with all the power that it possesses, the Tomahawk X lacks the same principles that make the X2015 such an incredible handling machine...
 
Quite. Aerodynamics and overall grip are still the territory of the Red Bull X cars. With those ground effects and the Venturi thingmajig working in tandem, the X2015 can grip to the road quite like no other futuristic race car. Even with all the power that it possesses, the Tomahawk X lacks the same principles that make the X2015 such an incredible handling machine...

That's what bugs me about the Tomahawk. In terms of low speed handling the Red Bull should have the advantage (because of the full time fan, whereas the SRT's active aero needs high speed to make it work). But in that video of the guy going around Laguna Seca the SRT looks super planted even coming out of slow speed turns. It might be traction control is on, but I still get the sensation that it's too grippy for low speeds.

Hopefully we'll find out next week if the maintenance does bring an update.
 
That's what bugs me about the Tomahawk. In terms of low speed handling the Red Bull should have the advantage (because of the full time fan, whereas the SRT's active aero needs high speed to make it work). But in that video of the guy going around Laguna Seca the SRT looks super planted even coming out of slow speed turns. It might be traction control is on, but I still get the sensation that it's too grippy for low speeds.

Hopefully we'll find out next week if the maintenance does bring an update.

It could be the traction control that gave the X such a planted handling in Laguna (feel free to confirm this, as I don't currently have the video at hand to check), as the multi-flaps can't really provide the same amount of grip as the ground effects of the X2015. Of course, it could be another case of the infamous "super-strong settings" that PD has used for previous VGT cars, which give absurd amounts of grip, but also give absurd amounts of understeer during corners.

But as you said, one has to wait for the car to be added to the game to confirm all of this...
 
My question though is this:

What kind of tyres is this car running? Goodness what rubber can handle that

Simple answer; Racing tires. Nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps due to its "street" status, the Tomahawk S might come with Sports Hard tires, but I'm not sure if that will happen. As for both the GTS-R and the X, only Racing tires will be able to grant the driver with imense grip...
 
Well the Cadillac Cien is based in the F-22... And the Reventon is also inspired in it... So that Lambo is next Gen Stealth fighter... I wonder what will come next...

Ironically, the Lamborghini looks more like the outdated, original facet based stealth aircraft. Auto styling regarding "jet fighters" is actually going backwards. A future stealth jet that looked the like the Lamborghini would be laughed at.

I'd say it's quite a stretch to assume that this or the Chaparral had any real engineering thought put into them. The same probably holds true for most of the VGT cars, of course, since it is a styling exercise; but I don't think you can really call it a creative flex for engineering if the extent of how to actually engineer the things the car has stopped at the effort put into the press release.

These cars aren't too outlandish until you get to the power and weight. I don't know how they're getting such power density. The S model is pretty reasonable except that it's supposed to be a street car. Were it the follow no rules ultimate prototype I think it would be fairly believable.

What you said still stands though, how much engineering was actually put into them? Obviously you can't expect the companies to put big budgets behind the VGT program, but using them as conceptual/experimental exercises is possible. Unfortunately the higher the bar is pushed, the more is left undefined and the more work you need to do to justify a particular concept.

If you mean coming up with a unique solution to serve a specific purpose, then that definitely happened.

The problem here is that they might have just come up with a proposed solution to a problem and not a working solution. The best example is the g suit. Old technology common in aviation, but they work in the vertical direction and are intended for positive g loads. 10 g is about the limit of what they're designed to take. Just saying "driver has a g-suit" isn't really much better than ignoring the g issue completely. You would need to design a g suit specifically for this car or maybe limit the driver's g load through specialized track design. The g-suit thing is as Tornado put it in another post, science fiction. It looks like an answer, but it isn't really one.

The aero stuff on the car looks pretty legit, but real analysis without actual flow data is limited. What worries me is interactions between all the aero parts. The front active spoilers are pretty large, what if they stall the rear spoilers and wing? Then you get way to much front downforce and a car that could not possible hope to brake in straight light at high speed because the rear wheels are flying off the ground.



Engineering is not an end product, it is a process. All engineering starts somewhere and to state what effectively means that these cars aren't production ready is probably missing the point. What matters is the method and supporting knowledge and experience used to whittle down the possibility space and expose "faulty ideas", not whether a CAE assessment of the active aero linkages has been performed.

Yes, but if your error bars are enormous, any answer you give is pretty worthless. Throwing out crazy ideas is fine in the early stages of design, but at that point you usually don't have performance figures for your design, just performance goals. I can see why people would think this car stopped at that stage and then had goals slapped into the stats sheets as if the design was actually tested.
 
Perhaps due to its "street" status, the Tomahawk S might come with Sports Hard tires, but I'm not sure if that will happen.
SS like the Nissan and Infiniti VGTs seems far more likely, with RH still a possibility.
 
The Tomahawk X won't beat the Red Bull. As long as that fan is working, it'll still be undefeated.

And how do you know that?

Nobody has driven it yet, sure it does not have the vaccum ground effect the red bull does with its fan, but it does have absalutely mad active aerodynamics with downforce levels that far surpass the RedBull, plus, it can fold them back, and have a low drag mode at any time for a straight line, also its venturi tunnels and diffuser generate alot of downforce alone.

This will be a battle of Ground Effect vs Downforce, you cannot say who will win unless its put to the test for real.
 
IIRC the Red Bull pulls 8.5G maximum in corners. The SRT can pull 11G, plus an added 1000 HP for the ultimate X version means it will completely butcher the Red Bulls both in straights and corners. The only limitation will be the driver. Driving the Red Bull is already hard enough as it is. I can't imagine human reflexes keeping up with the SRT X at full potential :crazy: Would be interesting to see B-spec Bob trying to drive it...

In any case, I like to see the Red Bull as the fastest car we can achieve with current tech (save for tires probably), and the SRT as the fastest car we can achieve with possible future tech.
 
IIRC the Red Bull pulls 8.5G maximum in corners. The SRT can pull 11G, plus an added 1000 HP for the ultimate X version means it will completely butcher the Red Bulls both in straights and corners. The only limitation will be the driver. Driving the Red Bull is already hard enough as it is. I can't imagine human reflexes keeping up with the SRT X at full potential :crazy: Would be interesting to see B-spec Bob trying to drive it...

In any case, I like to see the Red Bull as the fastest car we can achieve with current tech (save for tires probably), and the SRT as the fastest car we can achieve with possible future tech.

Well, from what was seen during the car's presentation at Detroit, even a trained and experienced racing driver like Ralph Gilles can really be pushed by the might of the Tomahawk X. God only knows how many invalid laps he made while wrestling with such a monster of a car... If it's not easy for him, then it definitely won't be easy for scrubs like us GT6 players. Human reflexes need to be on "God mode" if one wants to tame such a beast, even on "alien" Racing Soft tires... And I can't imagine what B-Spec Bob will feel like when we'd give him the (virtual) keys. Probably like this:

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::nervous::nervous::scared::scared::scared:"dies"

In the end, it's current (and banned in some cases) racing car tech (in the Red Bull) vs futuristic and untested tech (in the Tomahawk X) It's quite a curious battle, even if the specs of the Tomahawk X may feel like they bypassed the engineering section and then lodged themselves onto the car...
 
Well, from what was seen during the car's presentation at Detroit, even a trained and experienced racing driver like Ralph Gilles can really be pushed by the might of the Tomahawk X. God only knows how many invalid laps he made while wrestling with such a monster of a car... If it's not easy for him, then it definitely won't be easy for scrubs like us GT6 players. Human reflexes need to be on "God mode" if one wants to tame such a beast, even on "alien" Racing Soft tires... And I can't imagine what B-Spec Bob will feel like when we'd give him the (virtual) keys. Probably like this:

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::nervous::nervous::scared::scared::scared:"dies"

In the end, it's current (and banned in some cases) racing car tech (in the Red Bull) vs futuristic and untested tech (in the Tomahawk X) It's quite a curious battle, even if the specs of the Tomahawk X may feel like they bypassed the engineering section and then lodged themselves onto the car...

I can see one very noticeable problem with giving B Spec Bob the keys and the same goes for us.

That problem is, where can we race it?

It's no doubt that the X Model will have a very high PP rating, but the highest rated PP limit in the Career is 750PP and you'll just about get the Formula GT to fit that regulation via power limiting and weight adding.

The S and GTS-R might be ok, but the X will have the same issue as the Red Bull racers, if you want to race them against other cars, you'll have to race them in arcade or online.
 
I wouldn't be suprised if the PP system has the same limitations as Turn 10's.... 3 digits. I suspect that even with 2,625hp (after oil change) it might not go beyond 999.
The highest known PP limit is 1000.
 

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