Standard model / cockpit view ?

[Cosbuster]

With adaptive tessellation in GT6, I think the standards are probably gonna look almost identical to the premiums from the outside. 👍

I'm no expert, but I don't think tessellation does anything for dodgy textures and parts not modeled.

 

[eSZee]

All standards will look premium on the outside

No, no they won't.

 

[mister dog]

No, no they won't.

I'm fearing the same, they won't have upped the polygon count on what is it, 800 cars in 3 years time? Maybe the wheelarches will have been smoothed out and you will see the driver and the silhouet of the seats (they updated the standards that way in GT5 already).

If they would really have made all those PS2 models look premium, they would have had to create entirely new models alltogether no?

 

[TheGTGuy]

Confi

No, no they won't.

kaz confirmed there would be no difference in there appearance apart from cockpit view. I'm to lazy to find that post though.

 

[eSZee]

Confi
kaz confirmed there would be no difference in there appearance apart from cockpit view. I'm to lazy to find that post though.

I think I know what you're talking about and I think you misunderstood him.
I'll wait for you to post the source.
All I can think of is the interview where Kaz says there will no longer be a distinction between premium and standard in the game. Which is not the same as standards looking the same as premiums.

 

[Tier 2 Racing]

If it is completely crazy, call it "common sense." If it is absorbently expense, label it as "affordable."

And if you are tired of hearing about premium vs. standard, just don't acknowledge the word "standard" anymore.

 

[TheGTGuy]

I think I know what you're talking about and I think you misunderstood him.
I'll wait for you to post the source.
All I can think of is the interview where Kaz says there will no longer be a distinction between premium and standard in the game. Which is not the same as standards looking the same as premiums.

Yeah your right but if he doesn't mean standards will look like premiums then what does he mean? Standards are placed in the dealerships with premiums now that there's no UCD.

 

[HuskyGT]

why do people still use this standard cars thing? there are no standard cars jesus...

It's something that PD brought to themselves. I wouldn't know how to call them so it doesn't sound bad. It's either "Standards," or "bonus GT4 cars."

 

[eSZee]

Yeah your right but if he doesn't mean standards will look like premiums then what does he mean? Standards are placed in the dealerships with premiums now that there's no UCD.

Yes, the game itself does not differentiate between premiums and standards anymore but visually you can still which is which. Though hopefully with some of these "premiumized" standards, the gap might be shrinking.

 

[HuskyGT]

Standard was the wrong term anyway since they were not exactly ''standard'' in GT5, more like sub-standard so I think now that they are supposedly being upgraded then ''standard'' is the right term for them.

For the first time I must agree that what you just said is nothing but the awful truth...

 

[Sick Lenny]

Will all of the cars have interior views?
No.

I would not take that as a definite, given the language barrier and possibly Kaz interpreting that as a question about premium interiors. It would be strange for them to have added the black cutout in GT5 after fan demand for standard interiors, only to remove it altogether. I would hope that what we will get is a basic/no frill/one-size-fits-most 3d interior for them. Given the dev time on a new version, it does not seem like a big task. I can see it as being too much for GT5 after release, and hence we get the black view we have.

I'm no expert, but I don't think tessellation does anything for dodgy textures and parts not modeled.

That is my thinking too. The adaptive tessellation's main purpose will be to optimize lower LODs in the game, likely freeing up RAM/CPU for other things.
Kinda like the movie/tv trope where they take crappy surveillance cam footage and "enhance it" to HD so they can see the murder's face in the reflection of someone's eyeball - not gonna happen. You can't put in what isn't there. Only if PD adds more polys to the standards (and better textures) will we see an improvement.

 

[Nomadpt1]

I would like to think that the standards cars will all be premium quality on the outside and just would not have cockpit but that's to much to ask I think. But at the same time if there is cars with the quality of the gtr proto '01 on the outside, it will be unacceptable, I mean the only thing that can be decent and accetable is if all cars are premium on the outside

 

[TheNxtGenGT]

Well, Kaz did say that he would fix the bad quality standards, but the question is, what does bad quality standard(s) mean? Is it badly modeled ones or is the bad quality standard(s) all of 'em? Wait until the game comes out until we get a answer.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is the actual conversation:

Will there be “Standard Cars” in GT6?

Kaz: We won’t be making all the Standard cars from GT5 into Premium models, and we won’t make all of the GT5′s Standard cars fully “Premiumized”.

Up until now, we used to categorize them as Standard and Premium because there were functional differences between them: some of the Standard models might not have tuning parts, or couldn’t be used in Photo Mode. That will all be cleared so every model can be used in Photo Mode, and every car can have parts fitted for it.

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.

Will all of the cars have interior views?

No.

Source: https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-on-gran-turismo-6-standardpremium-cars/

 

[another_jakhole]

This is the actual conversation:
Will there be “Standard Cars” in GT6?

Kaz: We won’t be making all the Standard cars from GT5 into Premium models, and we won’t make all of the GT5′s Standard cars fully “Premiumized”.

Up until now, we used to categorize them as Standard and Premium because there were functional differences between them: some of the Standard models might not have tuning parts, or couldn’t be used in Photo Mode. That will all be cleared so every model can be used in Photo Mode, and every car can have parts fitted for it.

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.

Will all of the cars have interior views?

No.

Source: https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-on-gran-turismo-6-standardpremium-cars/

The second part of that underlined sentence is a telling sign that all cars will look good (meaning much more up to par in comparison to the way all cars were modeled in GT5). The Standards in GT5 had their exterior detail drawn like it was MS Paint. That's why only spoilers/wings could be added to them in the first place and why damage was even weirder than Premium damage. The Standards' bodies were just a shell, but now I think they've added the extra detail that can be compared to Premiums in order to allow us to fit body parts.

 

[sepulturite]

Me too.

I find it strange that you are both on a thread about cockpit views if neither of ye care about it, but anyway!

 

[Johnnypenso]

The second part of that underlined sentence is a telling sign that all cars will look good (meaning much more up to par in comparison to the way all cars were modeled in GT5). The Standards in GT5 had their exterior detail drawn like it was MS Paint. That's why only spoilers/wings could be added to them in the first place and why damage was even weirder than Premium damage. The Standards' bodies were just a shell, but now I think they've added the extra detail that can be compared to Premiums in order to allow us to fit body parts.

That's not what I got

What I got was, "not all standards will be made premium". We've seen a couple so far, the Alpine, Countach and a couple others. How many more I don't know but it's not all and I suspect it's no more than a handful.

And along with that they won't make all the standards "premiumized" and only the worst are updated graphically.

Not sure how you get "all cars will look good" from that when he's clearly stating not all cars are being updated, only the worst.

 

[iainoflo85]

That's not what I got

What I got was, "not all standards will be made premium". We've seen a couple so far, the Alpine, Countach and a couple others. How many more I don't know but it's not all and I suspect it's no more than a handful.

And along with that they won't make all the standards "premiumized" and only the worst are updated graphically.

Not sure how you get "all cars will look good" from that when he's clearly stating not all cars are being updated, only the worst.

I think you mean they're bringing all the standard cars into line, so they all look similar graphically, rather than the huge differences between some models in GT5, but they won't all be premium standard, there will still be a gap in graphical quality between them.

And I think the Veyron is now premimuized as well, it can be added to that short list as well. I say think, because of the confusion over the date.

 

[another_jakhole]

That's not what I got

What I got was, "not all standards will be made premium". We've seen a couple so far, the Alpine, Countach and a couple others. How many more I don't know but it's not all and I suspect it's no more than a handful.

And along with that they won't make all the standards "premiumized" and only the worst are updated graphically.

Not sure how you get "all cars will look good" from that when he's clearly stating not all cars are being updated, only the worst.

Well, I think all of the cars will look good based on what I read from the quote I replied about; obviously, not all of them will be of a high Premium quality. First of all, every car can be used in Photo Mode/Travel, and all cars will be customizable. At the start, only spoilers could be added, and then, with the Spec 2.02 update, closer to 100% of GT5's cars were given the ability to change their wheels, instead of only the Premium cars having that ability). I'm making the presumption of all cars being customizable means that they'll need to have greater (exterior) detail or they'll look weird when they're customized and using those once "Standard" cars in Photo Mode where the LoD was at a noticeably higher level and the imperfections easier to see (EVEN with the Premium models).

I think you mean they're bringing all the standard cars into line, so they all look similar graphically, rather than the huge differences between some models in GT5, but they won't all be premium standard, there will still be a gap in graphical quality between them.

And I think the Veyron is now premimuized as well, it can be added to that short list as well. I say think, because of the confusion over the date.

Right 👍. That's what I think it's going to be like and that's what I took from Kaz's answer. Basically, there will be three levels of quality in the cars. Fully detailed cars that are new to the series will especially not have the problem of being "under detailed" (the Veyron was first introduced in GT PSP so that says something about new cars to future GT's all being fully detailed from now on) along with GT5's Premiums, then there will be cars that are "good enough" compared to the greater detailed, full HD cars and the third level will be decent-looking, but not terrible.

Kaz states that not all cars will have the extent of detail that the Premiums had in GT5 (maybe meaning that they simply won't have detailed interiors) and he ambiguously states that there will be cars that won't have interiors that are completely modeled by saying "not all cars will be made fully 'Premiumized" (which I think means that the exterior detail will be improved enough for parts to be fitted onto the unknown number of those cars but will range from having simplified interiors to no interiors modeled at all). He didn't say that there would be some Standard cars that will stay the same and not be updated.

Not sure how you get "all cars will look good" from that when he's clearly stating not all cars are being updated, only the worst.

I actually said, "The second part of that underlined sentence is a telling sign that all cars will look good (meaning much more closer in their LoD, or more balanced out, in comparison to the way all cars were modeled in GT5 1.0)." I think you misread what I intended to describe, but iainoflo85 clarified that for me.

You can't add a carbon hood (bonnet if you're in the UK) to a standard car, as I believe the individual body components aren't separately modelled. Okay, maybe it could've been implemented via mods to the texture map but I don't think that much effort was made when transferring the standard models into GT5. I believe this is also why you can't change wheels on standard cars.

Just in case, I'll say it again, some standards come with carbon hoods already, which isn't the same as equipping them yourself.

From another thread, SlyckTires also explains it better than me about how I said Standard cars' exteriors looked like they've been drawn using MS Paint.

Spoilers are an extension to the cars (which is why those were possible to add from the beginning pre-updates and likely easier) whereas wheels have to be fitted precisely to each car to look normal with higher detail/polygon count (the stock wheels weren't of good quality until they visually improved after the Spec 2.02 update) whilst naturally moving in relation to the suspension's settings and behavior. A similar idea applies to the carbon fiber hoods and body parts.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, I think all of the cars will look good based on what I read from the quote I replied about; obviously, not all of them will be of a high Premium quality. First of all, every car can be used in Photo Mode/Travel, and all cars will be customizable. At the start, only spoilers could be added, and then, with the Spec 2.02 update, closer to 100% of GT5's cars were given the ability to change their wheels, instead of only the Premium cars having that ability). I'm making the presumption of all cars being customizable means that they'll need to have greater (exterior) detail them look weird when they're customized and using those once "Standard" cars in Photo Mode where the LoD was at a noticeably higher level and the imperfections easier to see (EVEN with the Premium models).



Right 👍. That's what I think it's going to be like and that's what I took from Kaz's answer. Basically, there will be three levels of quality in the cars. Fully detailed cars that are new to the series will especially not have the problem of being "under detailed" (the Veyron was first introduced in GT PSP so that says something about new cars to future GT's all being fully detailed from now on) along with GT5's Premiums, then there will be cars that are "good enough" compared to the greater detailed, full HD cars and the third level will be decent-looking, but not terrible.

Kaz states that not all cars will have the extent of detail that the Premiums had in GT5 (maybe meaning that they simply won't have detailed interiors) and he ambiguously states that there will be cars that won't have interiors that are completely modeled by saying "not all cars will be made fully 'Premiumized" (which I think means that the exterior detail will be improved enough for parts to be fitted onto the unknown number of those cars but will range from having simplified interiors to no interiors modeled at all). He didn't say that there would be some Standard cars that will stay the same and not be updated.


I actually said, "The second part of that underlined sentence is a telling sign that all cars will look good (meaning much more closer in their LoD, or more balanced out, in comparison to the way all cars were modeled in GT5 1.0)." I think you misread what I intended to describe, but iainoflo85 clarified that for me.



From another thread, SlyckTires also explains it better than me about how I said Standard cars' exteriors looked like they've been drawn using MS Paint.

Spoilers are an extension to the cars (which is why those were possible to add from the beginning pre-updates and likely easier) whereas wheels have to be fitted precisely to each car to look normal with higher detail/polygon count (the stock wheels weren't of good quality until they visually improved after the Spec 2.02 update) whilst naturally moving in relation to the suspension's settings and behavior. A similar idea applies to the carbon fiber hoods and body parts.

You're reading way more into it than is there. Outside of upgrading cars to full premiums all he really said in terms of upgrading the visual quality of standards was this:

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.
Notice it doesn't say, "In terms of graphics quality all the standards have received an upgrade", in fact it says, only the bad ones have been updated so they look "better", which could just as easily mean they upgraded the worst cars to the graphic quality of the better standards, and the better standards will remain the same, but now you can upgrade them with parts and take them to photomode.

Nowhere does he say all standards are improved.

 

[mister dog]

You're reading way more into it than is there. Outside of upgrading cars to full premiums all he really said in terms of upgrading the visual quality of standards was this:

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.
Notice it doesn't say, "In terms of graphics quality all the standards have received an upgrade", in fact it says, only the bad ones have been updated so they look "better", which could just as easily mean they upgraded the worst cars to the graphic quality of the better standards, and the better standards will remain the same, but now you can upgrade them with parts and take them to photomode.

Nowhere does he say all standards are improved.

Indeed a lot of wishful thinking here, but I think we'll see PS2 models appearing once again.

 

[sepulturite]

You're reading way more into it than is there. Outside of upgrading cars to full premiums all he really said in terms of upgrading the visual quality of standards was this:

In terms of graphics quality, the bad quality Standard models we’ve updated so they look better.
Notice it doesn't say, "In terms of graphics quality all the standards have received an upgrade", in fact it says, only the bad ones have been updated so they look "better", which could just as easily mean they upgraded the worst cars to the graphic quality of the better standards, and the better standards will remain the same, but now you can upgrade them with parts and take them to photomode.

Nowhere does he say all standards are improved.

Well I think the fact that standards can now be used in photo mode must mean that they've all been updated graphically in some way, just my opinion!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well I think the fact that standards can now be used in photo mode must mean that they've all been updated graphically in some way, just my opinion!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's based on wishful thinking and nothing factual...

 

[mister dog]

I would like to think that the standards cars will all be premium quality on the outside and just would not have cockpit but that's to much to ask I think. But at the same time if there is cars with the quality of the gtr proto '01 on the outside, it will be unacceptable, I mean the only thing that can be decent and accetable is if all cars are premium on the outside

Ah yes that one and don't forget the CLK touring car that was even more horrible to look at. I removed those from my garage out of pure shame... Must be those cars Kaz talked about "upgrading".

 

[sepulturite]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's based on wishful thinking and nothing factual...

It's not wishful thinking, I think it's just logical. We all know kaz loves how pretty the cars look, so I really don't think he'd put the fact you can use standards in photo mode into the game if they weren't up to it graphically.

 

[another_jakhole]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's based on wishful thinking and nothing factual...

Where does Kaz say that there won't be any improvements to the lesser detailed models?

It IS logical to have an opinion that's based on an observation of 1.5 to 2 years of updating/improving the Premiums and especially Standard cars in GT5. Three years of work this time around and you're POV is the exact definition of "illogical reasoning." In other words, you're unreasonable and it's a bit sad to witness.

That's not what I got

What I got was, "not all standards will be made premium". We've seen a couple so far, the Alpine, Countach and a couple others. How many more I don't know but it's not all and I suspect it's no more than a handful.

And along with that they won't make all the standards "premiumized" and only the worst are updated graphically.

Not sure how you get "all cars will look good" from that when he's clearly stating not all cars are being updated, only the worst.

Kaz says "not all of them will be fully 'Premiumized'" and says they're making the bad quality models look better. And you're saying that he had the team work on only improving the worst of the worst? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay then.

 

[mister dog]

Where does Kaz say that there won't be any improvements to the lesser detailed models?

It IS logical to have an opinion that's based on an observation of 1.5 to 2 years of updating/improving the Premiums and especially Standard cars in GT5. Three years of work this time around and you're POV is the exact definition of "illogical reasoning." In other words, you're unreasonable and it's a bit sad to witness.




Kaz says "not all of them will be fully 'Premiumized'" and says they're making the bad quality models look better. And you're saying that he had the team work on only improving the worst of the worst? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay then.

Let's talk again on December 6th

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's not wishful thinking, I think it's just logical. We all know kaz loves how pretty the cars look, so I really don't think he'd put the fact you can use standards in photo mode into the game if they weren't up to it graphically.

"We all know kaz loves how pretty the cars look"
GT5 = 800 standard, last generation models. Yup, lots of logic here:tup:

Kaz says "not all of them will be fully 'Premiumized'" and says they're making the bad quality models look better. And you're saying that he had the team work on only improving the worst of the worst? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay then.

I'm quoting Kaz. Kaz says they are improving the worst of the worst and not all of them will be premiumized. So what it logically means is X of the worst cars are fixed up, Y cars are premiumized and Z cars are left as they are. X, Y an Z are unknown.

You simply cannot say

Well, I think all of the cars will look good based on what I read from the quote

because you have no idea how many cars were worked on and how many weren't.

 

[sepulturite]

"We all know kaz loves how pretty the cars look"
GT5 = 800 standard, last generation models. Yup, lots of logic here:tup:



I'm quoting Kaz. Kaz says they are improving the worst of the worst and not all of them will be premiumized. So what it logically means is X of the worst cars are fixed up, Y cars are premiumized and Z cars are left as they are. X, Y an Z are unknown.

You simply cannot say because you have no idea how many cars were worked on and how many weren't.

Yes and the reason why there were 800 standard was because he was such a perfectionist with the premium cars that were in the game that it took him and his team so long to finish them because he likes them to look pretty, so yes it is logical.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes and the reason why there were 800 standard was because he was such a perfectionist with the premium cars that were in the game that it took him and his team so long to finish them because he likes them to look pretty, so yes it is logical.

A perfectionist would have scrapped the Standard cars and went with Premium only. Including Standards is as far from "perfectionist", as your quote above is from logic.