Still more MINIs on the way.... Coupe pantent drawings are out.

[homeforsummer]

It's a corporate face, every auto maker is guilty of it.

There's a bit more to it in MINI's case, though. They're trying to make every car look vaguely like a ten-foot minicar that came out in 1959. It goes far beyond a simple corporate face, and effectively they've built themselves into a corner by having to make everything look like a MINI.

It's like I said before - it's as if the designers have no freedom to move. I can imagine virtually every design brief is along the lines of "design an awesome coupe/crossover/sporty crossover/roadster/whatever... oh, but make it look like the hatchback".

I'm genuinely intrigued to see where they take the brand over the next few model cycles. I simply can't see them being able to continue tweaking lights and throwing a contrasting roof on something indefinitely.

It's not just MINI of course. Fiat is going to have a nightmare replacing the 500 (the 500L already shows how badly it can go trying to turn those styling cues into a different-shaped car), VW is going to struggle with the next Beetle - though luckily for them, they're right at the start of a model cycle so don't have to think about it for another 6-odd years - and if the reactions on this forum are anything to go by, Ford is going to have plenty of people who dislike the next Mustang for not looking like something from the 60s.

Retro design, when done well, can be brilliant - but it shouldn't be the grand plan for any car company. Even if the company's name is MINI.

 

[niky]

I think, except for the Panamera's awesomely awkward arse, Porsche has dug themselves out of the trap... a tiny bit. The new Cayenne is a whole lot less awkward than the launch model, and no longer looks like a misshapen 911 on stilts. And then after that design triumph, they released the Panamera. Oy vey.

What MINI has to do right now is to create a design philosophy based on the Morris Mini, but with room to grow out of it. The Rocketman might be an answer, and the Coupe and Roadster show how you can change the basic shape but still make it recognizable. If ever there is a MINI sedan, they have a butt to work with now.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think, except for the Panamera's awesomely awkward arse, Porsche has dug themselves out of the trap... a tiny bit. The new Cayenne is a whole lot less awkward than the launch model, and no longer looks like a misshapen 911 on stilts. And then after that design triumph, they released the Panamera. Oy vey.

The current Cayenne is almost immeasurably better than the original. Similar size but manages to look far smaller thanks to better details. Recognisably Porsche, but not a 911 clone.

The Boxster has improved massively too. I've always quite liked it but the new one is a triumph - partly, I suspect, as it's no longer a 911 parts-bin special, and has totally unique body panels. I'm expecting the new Cayman to be good too.

The Panamera has grown on me, but it's certainly the most awkwardly-styled of the current Porsches. In my view, they need to create the mooted shooting brake version and ditch the hatch/saloon:

How brilliant does that look? Completely solves the Panamera's biggest problem: Its arse.

What MINI has to do right now is to create a design philosophy based on the Morris Mini, but with room to grow out of it. The Rocketman might be an answer, and the Coupe and Roadster show how you can change the basic shape but still make it recognizable. If ever there is a MINI sedan, they have a butt to work with now.

If that's the butt they're using then I'm already disinterested. The Coupe and Roadster's backside is the least successful aspect of the entire design. Looks like a complete afterthought.

A MINI saloon has a precedent, though. The Riley Elf/Wolseley Hornet:

...Which shows us exactly what we need to finish off a MINI saloon - fins. Just imagine how much better the MINI Coupe would look with less of a notchback shape and more fastback, but with vestigial finned lights rather than the standard hatchback ones it seems to use. It'd visually elongate the car a little rather than it looking truncated as it does at the moment.

 

[niky]

Fins are so... 50's...

I guess we'd have to agree to dis-. In the flesh, the rear end looks good, though the plastic spoiler looks... plasticky, and the fit and finish need a whole lot of improvement for the price premium the Roadster commands.

Actually... it's weird that they felt the need for a two-seat roadster. The original Cabrio already does a good job of being a two-seat roadster with a leather-padded storage bin behind the front seats.

 

[homeforsummer]

As I've mentioned earlier, I think the roof on the Coupe is brilliant, but to my eyes it just doesn't work being plonked wholesale on top of an otherwise standard hatchback body. Or at least, the body looks like the standard hatchback, so if it isn't I'd consider that another failing of the design...

Have you driven the Coupe yet? I've somehow managed to avoid it though I'm hoping to have a go soon. I think I'd prefer driving it to looking at it, though I've heard that it's impossible to get a MINI Coupe that doesn't have atrocious ride quality, either...

I'm trying to think of what might have been the most recent car with fins. Has there been such a thing since the 60s?

 

[niky]

I may have a shot at COTY. We are getting a grand total of four to six of them, from the base Cooper, through the S and up to the JCW.

Most likely MINI will only send the Cooper and the S variants, so as not to rattle out our teeth out. I wager they'll drive like slightly lighter versions of the hatch and cabrio... None of the reviews I've read lead me to think any different.

-

Fins? A few recent Cadillacs have come close...

 

[homeforsummer]

Which model is that?

And yeah, reviews I've read suggest the MINI handles well enough, but I think all of them are more stiffly sprung than the hatch... if it feels lighter that's probably an illusion of it being less forgiving.

In Europe at least, the MINI Coupe's problem is three-fold. The MX-5 is still a better actual sports car, the Peugeot RCZ is prettier and more practical, and the regular, still-fun MINI is significantly cheaper. I've not seen many MINI Coupes on the road at all, and I live in a town where MINIs in general seem to be the small hatchback of choice. In fact, there may be more classic Minis around here than MINI Coupes...

 

[niky]

Too much money for too little in it. They really should have just done the Rocketman.

Cadillac SRX. i was thinking the XLR would be closer, but while it comes up to a square point, it doesn't leave the body outline entirely.

 

[homeforsummer]

Going off on a tangent, I see some of Cadillac's recent examples being a very good illustration of how to continue a brand's values without plundering the past to do so. Those semi-fins are subtle enough to barely notice, but distinctive enough to tie into the past. Less a parody, more a homage.

 

[Nessy]

Wonder whether we'll ever see a Marcos inspired MINI?

 

[Slash]

There's a bit more to it in MINI's case, though. They're trying to make every car look vaguely like a ten-foot minicar that came out in 1959. It goes far beyond a simple corporate face, and effectively they've built themselves into a corner by having to make everything look like a MINI.

It's like I said before - it's as if the designers have no freedom to move. I can imagine virtually every design brief is along the lines of "design an awesome coupe/crossover/sporty crossover/roadster/whatever... oh, but make it look like the hatchback".

I'm genuinely intrigued to see where they take the brand over the next few model cycles. I simply can't see them being able to continue tweaking lights and throwing a contrasting roof on something indefinitely.

It's not just MINI of course. Fiat is going to have a nightmare replacing the 500 (the 500L already shows how badly it can go trying to turn those styling cues into a different-shaped car), VW is going to struggle with the next Beetle - though luckily for them, they're right at the start of a model cycle so don't have to think about it for another 6-odd years - and if the reactions on this forum are anything to go by, Ford is going to have plenty of people who dislike the next Mustang for not looking like something from the 60s.

Retro design, when done well, can be brilliant - but it shouldn't be the grand plan for any car company. Even if the company's name is MINI.

Why do I have a nasty feeling that Ford's sales are going to drop tremendesly with the release of the new Mustang...

 

[Joey D]

There's a bit more to it in MINI's case, though. They're trying to make every car look vaguely like a ten-foot minicar that came out in 1959. It goes far beyond a simple corporate face, and effectively they've built themselves into a corner by having to make everything look like a MINI.

It's like I said before - it's as if the designers have no freedom to move. I can imagine virtually every design brief is along the lines of "design an awesome coupe/crossover/sporty crossover/roadster/whatever... oh, but make it look like the hatchback".

I'm genuinely intrigued to see where they take the brand over the next few model cycles. I simply can't see them being able to continue tweaking lights and throwing a contrasting roof on something indefinitely.

It's not just MINI of course. Fiat is going to have a nightmare replacing the 500 (the 500L already shows how badly it can go trying to turn those styling cues into a different-shaped car), VW is going to struggle with the next Beetle - though luckily for them, they're right at the start of a model cycle so don't have to think about it for another 6-odd years - and if the reactions on this forum are anything to go by, Ford is going to have plenty of people who dislike the next Mustang for not looking like something from the 60s.

Retro design, when done well, can be brilliant - but it shouldn't be the grand plan for any car company. Even if the company's name is MINI.

You've seen their parent company right? BMW puts that same ugly corporate face on everything and can somehow manage to make their products uglier every facelift. I think all of their new vehicles are just down right vulgar.

But really all auto makers face the same problems now days. I can't think of any company that has unique designs across their range. It's pretty much a general class segment with a corporate grill tacked on.

And you're right, Fiat is going to have an awful time when it comes to a redesign. It'll look like the second gen MINI did, same style just swollen and awkward. The Beetle is better but it's still fairly odd. Ford though won't have any issue with the Mustang, retro styling is going out of fashion and new car buyers are looking for something more modern.

 

[niky]

Corporate look, thankfully, doesn't have to mean corporate shape.

That's the one issue with MINI, breaking out of the shoebox mold they're penning themselves in.

They should've made the pick-up. Wouldn't have sold many. But at least that would mean I could get my hands on one in the not-so-distant future.

 

[Joey D]

You can sort of get a MINI pick up by buying a used Red Bull MINI. I still want a retired one.

 

[niky]

Not here, unfortunately.

...

Off to E-Bay to dream.

 

[homeforsummer]

You've seen their parent company right? BMW puts that same ugly corporate face on everything and can somehow manage to make their products uglier every facelift. I think all of their new vehicles are just down right vulgar.

But really all auto makers face the same problems now days. I can't think of any company that has unique designs across their range. It's pretty much a general class segment with a corporate grill tacked on.

I actually don't mind most BMWs at the moment. The 5 and 7 are boring but inoffensive, the 5GT is hideous I'll grant you, and I'm not overly fussed on the Z4, but the rest are okay. Even the 1er, which has made the old one (which I also liked) look really old. The 3er is probably most successful at the moment.

But yes, I see your point. At least BMW's whole range doesn't look identical though, unlike, say, Audi.

Off the top of my head, I'm certainly struggling to think of a carmaker around at the moment whose whole model range isn't essentially varying sizes of the same thing. If anything, BMW is one of the least guilty.

And it being an industry-wide thing shouldn't excuse MINI in any way. As before, MINI isn't so much a corporate face as a corporate make-everything-look-like-the-normal-MINI, regardless of the type of car being built.

And you're right, Fiat is going to have an awful time when it comes to a redesign. It'll look like the second gen MINI did, same style just swollen and awkward. The Beetle is better but it's still fairly odd. Ford though won't have any issue with the Mustang, retro styling is going out of fashion and new car buyers are looking for something more modern.

With the Mustang, that remains to be seen. I'd like to think that's the case, but you know as well as I do how many people even on this forum were bitching about the next one not being some retro throwback nonsense.

As for the Beetle, I actually really like the current one. In the right colour, it looks far more like the original Beetle than either the 500 or MINI look like their original versions - VW has got the proportions pretty much spot on. It's actually a car I'd go as far as considering, if I had the money for a new car.

 

[Nessy]

As for the Beetle, I actually really like the current one. In the right colour, it looks far more like the original Beetle than either the 500 or MINI look like their original versions - VW has got the proportions pretty much spot on. It's actually a car I'd go as far as considering, if I had the money for a new car.

Whilst i agree (bolded), i think that's largely due to the fact that the current Beetle shares the obvious echoes of having rounded (almost separate) wheelarches.. something that's not really often found on other modern day cars. As a design standpoint, it's arguably one of the most strongest design elements of the whole retro/original aspects of car design... (imo) it would be very hard for VW to get that part wrong, whereas the MINI & 500 (retro/original), lend themselves to a more conventional looking car design with subtle design cues... so it's always going to be harder for the 2 cars in question, to strike the same chord so easily as the VW Beetle does.
I think the only other car that could do it as well as the Beetle does it, would be a full-on retro version of the 2CV... (and no, i don't mean the Pluriel or that other concept shown a while ago).

 

[Joey D]

And it being an industry-wide thing shouldn't excuse MINI in any way. As before, MINI isn't so much a corporate face as a corporate make-everything-look-like-the-normal-MINI, regardless of the type of car being built.

I agree it shouldn't excuse them, but at the same time I can't really fault them for doing what every other company already does.

With the Mustang, that remains to be seen. I'd like to think that's the case, but you know as well as I do how many people even on this forum were bitching about the next one not being some retro throwback nonsense.

Eh most people who end up bitching about a car like the Mustang not being retro wouldn't buy the car in the first place anyway.

It's just like a majority of the people I see talking about how BMW ruined the MINI brand by making anything other than the base Cooper/S wouldn't give a MINI a second look when shopping for a car anyway.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Mini
Mini Convertible
Mini Clubman
Mini Countryman
Mini Coupe
Mini Roadster
Mini Clubvan
Mini Paceman

...

and now.. introducing..

The 5 door MINI-that-isn't-a-Countryman-or-Asymetrically-syled-man!!!

http://www.worldcarfans.com/112110850340/mini-cooper-five-door-spied

 

[Doog]

I have so got to get one of those if I have kids.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Oh come on, really? Can we maybe have a truly mini Mini? On the other hand, it's better than the Countryman or Coupe/Roadster.

 

[RocZX]

Some Mini Models May Be on Chopping Block

BMW's Mini small-car division likely will shake up its lineup in the next few years after several models reach the end of their product cycle. Specifically, some current models may not be replaced.

Jim McDowell, vice president of Mini USA, told Edmunds that the Cooper Hardtop and the Cooper Countryman are the brand's core models, accounting for about 75 percent of sales. Mini sold about 66,200 vehicles last year in the United States, a record year for the brand, with those two models contributing almost 50,000 of that total.

As for the rest of the line, McDowell suggested that some models are on the bubble.

"When we start to replace models, I think you will see that we won't replace every model exactly," he said during an interview at the 2013 New York Auto Show.

"When I joined Mini, we knew that we would have two models. Ultimately, we (now) have seven. We are starting the next generation a year from now. We know that we will have a pretty broad lineup. You may actually put your chess pieces on the board differently if you know that you can have seven."

Edmunds

 

[Tornado]

inb4 they eliminate the regular Mini.





But yeah, probably gonna be the Clubman that gets the axe.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Global Mini Brand Sales according to BMW

2012

Hatch.......... 131,569
Convertible....24,474
Clubman....... 22,699
Countryman.. 102,271
Coupe.......... 11,311
Roadster....... 9,202

Clubvan sales aren't shown, I don't know the reason why.

edit:

BMW is planning big things for their FWD platform and that doesn't include (by all accounts) making less Mini's.. I suspect McDowell is maybe talking about the US market offerings maybe?

 

[Moglet]

I saw the Paceman for the first time yesterday, only on television, having missed the preview shots; I love it. That sloping roof line looks great, and if I were in the market for a new car I'd definitely consider it.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Paceman is pretty good looking all things considered. I saw one in London last weekend, didn't know if it was on sale yet, but fumbled my DSLR which was on the passenger, so missed the "Did you see anything good today" pic opportunity.

 

[homeforsummer]

inb4 they eliminate the regular Mini.

But yeah, probably gonna be the Clubman that gets the axe.

I hope not. Stupid side door arrangement aside it's actually my favourite MINI.

I wouldn't shed a tear if they dropped the Coupe, Roadster, Countryman or Paceman though. Not that they'll ever drop the Countryman, as those sales figures pretty much confirm.

 

[MatskiMonk]

From the BMW Rumour Mill..

So far the FWD BMW/MINI UKL family stands as...

BMW 1 Series Urbanic Compact 3/5dr - Upcoming City hatch based on next MINI, BMW's Audi A1 rival.
MINI 3/5dr - Increased demand leads to the next generation MINI due next year with five drs for the 1st time.

BMW 1 Series Sedan - Baby sedan off the UKL architecture aimed at global markets for small sedans.
MINI Sedan - Sporty four dr MINI aimed at increasing markets for MINI products, potentially could be MINI's best global seller overtaking the Countryman.

BMW 1 Series Active Tourer - Production version of Active Tourer Concept launched at Iaa 2013.
MINI Traveller - MINI variant of the Active Tourer. Designed to show how both cars can co-exist with individual style and flexibility.

BMW 1 Series Urbanic Roadster - BMW's open top variant of the City car inherits two seats only with a rear deck with layed butresses like the BMW 6er Cabrio and BMW i8 designed for clip on roof panel.
MINI Cabrio - Latest F56 rendition of the popular open top MINI.

BMW Z1 Sportster - To provide greater economies of scale The Z1 will be BMW's equivalent to the MINI Coupe and Roadster , but will be FWD and powered by more powerful three cylinder engines. Design derived from well-received 2011 Vision ConnectedDrive concept car.
MINI Roadster - Next Roadster and Coupe will launch with a sportier look which is completely seperate from the standard MINI. MINI design elements will feature but bodywork is not based on the hatch family.

BMW Z1 SportCoupe - Coupe version of the Z1 will complete the BMW Z twins against the MINI twins.
MINI Coupe - Coupe version of Roadster , more individual in appearance.

BMW X1 - Next generation of highly successful SAV moves to the UKL architecture to offer more flexibility.
Also available with xDrive.
MINI Countryman - Next generation of the global MINI juggernaut. heavily shared with BMW X1.

BMW X2 - Sport Activity Coupe variant of the next BMW X1 , FWD with optional xDrive and the first BMW SAC to appear as both a 3dr and 5dr.
MINI Paceman/XL - Next generation of new MINI member will be offered with five dr version as well as 3dr.

BMW F.amily A.ctivity S.ports T.ourer - BMW's hybrid of SAV solidity , MPV space and Touring bodystyle.
MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility , more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking proportions.

And of course the next generation 1 Series due in 2017 will resort to being FWD.

Obviously not gospel, but I do think it represents BMW's thinking at the moment.

 

[homeforsummer]

At the risk of sounding daft, was that posted on April 1st? Only it seems like some pretty extreme niche-filling even by BMW standards - literally a BMW and a MINI version of every small car? And the Family Active Sports Tourer (BMW FAST - seriously?) raises suspicions too.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Ha, nope 24th of November last year... and whilst all variants may or may not make it to production, it really wouldn't surprise me if BMW went down this road. That's 18 models off the UKL platform, which can be F/R/AWD, that's how to turn a profit I guess.