Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)

[Casio]

Also, maybe I don't need it for making money, but I need it for a school project. What am I going to do about that? If its so easy to program the 30K software inventory system, why not save 30K and program it yourself? And the point you haven't realized is that you don't normally get caught pirating. You do when you steal something from a store though.

I worked in the education sector. Schools don't issue projects that require 30k software to complete. If they do, the software is supplied on school machines. Companies like Adobe/Autodesk have steep educational discounts on software if you want to use it at home.

Autocad isn't designed to be played around with on home computers by children. It's designed to be used by professionals, 12 hours a day, on million dollar projects. 2k is a drop in the bucket.

However, the thing is that even though one song is only 99 cents, a whole library might cost you thousands of dollars.

You learned math. Congratulations.

At last count I had ~40 PS3 games, x $80 on average for PS3 games, I've spent $3200 on PS3 games. I don't use iTunes but have quite a large CD/DVD/Blu-Ray collection reaching also into the 1000s of dollars. Is that unreasonable?

iTunes has actually helped a lot in the Music industry, as it saves you from buying an album for only two songs that you might like.

---

That said I think their are some forms of piracy that are acceptable. Specifically regarding content that isn't available in your location and is provided for free elsewhere.

 

[bevo]

Considering its a country that is rich, out of debt and living there is great (you don't need to work your ass off there to make a decent wage, compared to here), then yes.

Also, maybe I don't need it for making money, but I need it for a school project. What am I going to do about that? If its so easy to program the 30K software inventory system, why not save 30K and program it yourself? And the point you haven't realized is that you don't normally get caught pirating. You do when you steal something from a store though.

I really can't see a school telling you you have to have autocad to use and not giving you some kind of student edition, or making it available to use at school.

I'm saying the reason people do steal programs and music is because they do not get caught. Does that make it alright for me to go on a killing spree if I don't get caught?
The reason I don't write my own program is because I have no idea how. Maybe I should just go and break in their office and steal it, that way I can just get whatever I want for free.

There is no reason ever for anyone to pirate anything from the internet except for their own selfish reasons.

It is stealing, plain and simple and there is no way anyone can justify doing it, and make it not sound like stealing. The only reason anyone does it, is because no one will catch them. I was raised not to steal. I admit when I was younger I had different views on pirated music, but since I became an adult and had to work for the things I want, I no longer want to take things that other people have worked to make, without them getting their pay.

It's wrong, and if you do it you are stealing something that someone else worked hard to make.

I also didn't mean to put down Iran earlier, It's just kind of amazing the way you used the 24 DVD thing as an example. It's just kind of weird how you put it's not stealing if they sell 24 DVD packs in Iran. Is that really the best example you have for pirating can't be stealing if.....

 

[nuclearfire]

Is this the same bill as this? : http://americancensorship.org just saw this on my girlfriends facebook

 

[bergauk]

So.. What if I was deathly allergic to something, and needed an Epipen, but had no money, and no one who was with me had money either, and the guy behind the counter at the store wouldn't sell one to us. Would stealing it to save my life from whatever allergic reaction I was having be wrong? Or would it be justifiable as it saved my life?

Just a simple example.

I just wish I could pay what I'd like to for software. Kinda like what they do for the Humble Bundle.

 

[HACKr]

To all the people talking about how wrong stealing and piracy is, you do realize that this bill, if passed, would pave the way for large scale internet censorship, right? It could even cause this very site to be blocked because of user posted content.. I feel like that's what this thread should be about, rather than the ethics of piracy.

 

[nk4e]

Is this the same bill as this? : http://americancensorship.org just saw this on my girlfriends facebook

I am a constituent and I urge you to reject the Internet Blacklist Bills (PROTECT IP Act in the Senate and the Stop Online Piracy Act in the House).

Yup.

 

[nuclearfire]

Yup.

Thanks i didnt want to make a new thread about it if this was the same

 

[PHCharls]

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_the_internet_d/?aDjmlcb
Sign the petition !

 

[bevo]

So.. What if I was deathly allergic to something, and needed an Epipen, but had no money, and no one who was with me had money either, and the guy behind the counter at the store wouldn't sell one to us. Would stealing it to save my life from whatever allergic reaction I was having be wrong? Or would it be justifiable as it saved my life?

Just a simple example.

I just wish I could pay what I'd like to for software. Kinda like what they do for the Humble Bundle.

It would still be stealing, but I would say moraly it would be justifiable. When is the last time though that something on the internet saved your life? If you are deathly allergic to something you should already have the epipen anyway. If it's a child that has the allergy then the government will pay for it if you can't, if it's you then you should have worked for the money to get it, because you as an adult know you need it. I understand that people come across bad times and all, a life threatening situation is one thing, but music is another. No need to ever steal music except that your a thief that can get away with it.

The internet is already censored somewhat anyway, and in all honesty it needs more of it. There are things that you are not allowed to put on it, so why should you be allowed to steal from it?

How can you guys agree that it ok to take things that you haven't paid for? It really blows my mind how that anyone thinks it's ok to just take whatever you want.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Take a look at AutoCad. The software liscense costs thousands of dollars. Do you really think I'm going to pay that much for it? No.

If you are a student, Autocad is completely free. All you need is a an email address that belongs to your university/college. For example, I have my own email address onto which I receive emails from university. I then register myself as a student on Autodesk and I get free access to any Autodesk program as long as I am registered as a student.

 

[nick09]

Piracy is a completely different issue, the issue is that with this bill, the US Government can blacklist websites we freely use. This takes away our 1st amendment, which is freedom of press and freedom of speech, which is a concern here. I'm not in for the pirates but in for the first amendment. Say someone is doing a playthrough of GTA and the voice actor who stars for the main character of GTA complains to YouTube and "poof!" those videos are gone and the uploader might be sued just for sharing some gameplay of GTA. Notice the main supporters of this bill:

Rogue sites legislation receives broad support from organizations that rely on copyright, including the Motion Picture Association of America, the Recording Industry Association of America, Macmillan Publishers, Netflix, Viacom, and various other companies and unions in the cable, movie, and music industries. Supporters also include trademark-dependent companies such as Nike, L'Oréal, and Acushnet Company.

Those who oppose it:

Opponents of the bill include corporations and organizations such as Google, Yahoo!, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, AOL, LinkedIn, eBay, Mozilla Corporation, and Wikimedia Foundation, as well as human rights organizations such as Reporters Without Borders, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Human Rights Watch.

Both sourced from here. This is just a plot for censorship even if they say the reason why is pirates. I've seen fan created content taken down because of copyrights where the copyrighted material was just used to entertain watchers with material they made themselves to work with the copyrighted material. Let's say a person is making a video about an LP turntable from the 70's where they played an LP with a copyrighted song. So in fear of copyright restrictions they can't play that song that they own on the LP on that LP turntable from the 70's. The youtuber would of not uploaded the LP turntable with that copyrighted song to pirate some music but to genuinely show an old LP turntable to the viewers. It's an entirely different issue if he downloaded the mp3 file of that copyrighted song and uploaded it to youtube.

 

[G.T.Ace]

If you are a student, Autocad is completely free. All you need is a an email address that belongs to your university/college. For example, I have my own email address onto which I receive emails from university. I then register myself as a student on Autodesk and I get free access to any Autodesk program as long as I am registered as a student.

You don't even have to be at a university, since they allow "home schools" too.
The pricing argument is complete nonesense anyway, " I can't afford it, so I steal it", doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

EDIT: By the way, nick09 is right though of course. I also don't like the plan at all.

EDIT²: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33719 By the way...

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I need Autocad and 3DS Max for my Technological Design classes. Even though they supply AutoCad 2007 in the class, I want to do some homework.

I also do find that such a large sum of money spent on video games and music is unreasonable, especially when you put the fact that I don't and never had the money to equal the value of my music collection.

Again, its all about the valuie of the product to you. If you don't believe that the value is its selling price, you don't believe that you should purchase it. Each person has different values. If I had the money to buy expensive stuff, my music library would mostly be legal, especially the benefits some music stores give you and that they let you download it in various formats like FLAC.

You learned math. Congratulations.

Everyone learns math. Should I throw a party for your education in math? Because if you congratulate people for learning math, you must have had a hard time learning it yourself.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Against it. Can't be properly managed, justified, there are far too many gray areas like nick09 mentioned and it will step on the toes of many legit websites, even GTP could be affected 👎

Jerome

 

[bevo]

Everyone learns math. Should I throw a party for your education in math? Because if you congratulate people for learning math, you must have had a hard time learning it yourself.

You may have learned Math, but you haven't learned right from wrong yet.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I need Autocad and 3DS Max for my Technological Design classes. Even though they supply AutoCad 2007 in the class, I want to do some homework.

I also do find that such a large sum of money spent on video games and music is unreasonable, especially when you put the fact that I don't and never had the money to equal the value of my music collection.

Again, its all about the valuie of the product to you. If you don't believe that the value is its selling price, you don't believe that you should purchase it. Each person has different values. If I had the money to buy expensive stuff, my music library would mostly be legal, especially the benefits some music stores give you and that they let you download it in various formats like FLAC.

So, when I think a... Lamborghini Aventador is really cool and I want it, but it's value is 20 bucks for me (you know, because I cannot afford it), I should just steal it?

By the way, you are admitting you have a pirated AutoCad (even when you can get it for free as a student legally) and you have tons of pirated music. You are not only breaking the law, but also the AUP of GTPlanet. And while I don't want to act like a wannabe mod here, you might want to think about it for two seconds.

 

[Bram Turismo]

The pricing argument is complete nonesense anyway, " I can't afford it, so I steal it", doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Yeah, because throwing out $3,995 for Autocad 2012 does make a lot of sense...

Fortunately I'm so incredibly lucky to get it completely for free. I just can't thank Autodesk enough students have this kind of opportunity.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Well, now that I know about this Autodesk thing, I will actually use this to my advantage. Thank you Autodesk for helping students like me. Goodbye pirated version of AutoCad!

 

[G.T.Ace]

Yeah, because throwing out $3,995 for Autocad 2012 does make a lot of sense...

I didn't say that and I am not only talking about Autodesk software. People use this "argument" for everything they pirate and it's nonesense. Because it means "I can steal anything when I don't have enough money.".

 

[White & Nerdy]

Dropping in just to say: this bill fails epically. If it passes, there will be much raging, of that I'm sure.

And I will be one of the ragers, because potentially-excessive restrictions + heavy-handed enforcement really will kill the internet.

 

[12thgear]

Piracy is a completely different issue, the issue is that with this bill, the US Government can blacklist websites we freely use. This takes away our 1st amendment, which is freedom of press and freedom of speech, which is a concern here. I'm not in for the pirates but in for the first amendment. Say someone is doing a playthrough of GTA and the voice actor who stars for the main character of GTA complains to YouTube and "poof!" those videos are gone and the uploader might be sued just for sharing some gameplay of GTA.

Thanks for getting us back on track, Nick. Regardless whether you think piracy is no big deal or are against it, this bill sucks. It eliminates due process while lining up lots of honest people in the crosshairs. The way the bill is worded there's going to be way too much collateral damage and way too many false positives.

I do consider privacy theft myself, but I'll trade having my content taken without pay sometimes for preventing over-enforcement any day of the week.

 

[Akira GT]

Dropping in just to say: this bill fails epically. If it passes, there will be much raging, of that I'm sure.

And I will be one of the ragers, because potentially-excessive restrictions + heavy-handed enforcement really will kill the internet.

You really should know by now that raging will not stop this law (luckily as a member of the EU this law does not affect me as far as I am Aware) i'm pretty sure the law will get passed in America not sure when (and if) the law will come to Europe (As it's many different countries not just a single country which makes the law much more difficult to pass!)

Actually if i'm not mistaken the law has already been passed over there but Facebook, Google and Yahoo are against the law!

 

[Azuremen]

You may have learned Math, but you haven't learned right from wrong yet.

If you think this bill has anything to do with piracy, rather than just companies refusing to adjust their business models, you are beyond naive.

The MPAA tried to ban the VCR because it would "destroy" the film industry back in the 80's. The RIAA tried to ban MP3 players under the same reasons. And most all other media that could, possibly, be used to record things as well. Now these mediums and their related devices help generate a decent amount of revenue for these companies.

Their claims that they are killing jobs is also a huge amount of ********. The CEO of Viacom received a $50 million increase in compensation last year, while they are now promoting a video about all the jobs that have been lost because of piracy. It is simply a massive amount of greed, and very little to do with making sure the creative talents behind much of the media we enjoy get paid. And now they want the power to just shut down things suspected of violating copy right. Talk about a wonderful way to shut down small competitors and labels without having to go through the proper channels.

 

[wfooshee]

Changed my mind about my rant. Deleted.

 

[bevo]

If you think this bill has anything to do with piracy, rather than just companies refusing to adjust their business models, you are beyond naive.

The MPAA tried to ban the VCR because it would "destroy" the film industry back in the 80's. The RIAA tried to ban MP3 players under the same reasons. And most all other media that could, possibly, be used to record things as well. Now these mediums and their related devices help generate a decent amount of revenue for these companies.

Their claims that they are killing jobs is also a huge amount of ********. The CEO of Viacom received a $50 million increase in compensation last year, while they are now promoting a video about all the jobs that have been lost because of piracy. It is simply a massive amount of greed, and very little to do with making sure the creative talents behind much of the media we enjoy get paid. And now they want the power to just shut down things suspected of violating copy right. Talk about a wonderful way to shut down small competitors and labels without having to go through the proper channels.

I know that piracy is just the excuse for the bill, but I just couldn't stand people saying piracy is fine.

Here is a question for everyone though.
How do you stop piracy without taking out the websites that allow it?

The only way to stop it would be by stopping the people who enable it. It's just like the U.S. always complaining about illegal imigrants. The way to stop that is to fine the people who hire them beyond they're ability to pay the fines and then shut their business down.

 

[HACKr]

I know that piracy is just the excuse for the bill, but I just couldn't stand people saying piracy is fine.

Here is a question for everyone though.
How do you stop piracy without taking out the websites that allow it?

The only way to stop it would be by stopping the people who enable it. It's just like the U.S. always complaining about illegal imigrants. The way to stop that is to fine the people who hire them beyond they're ability to pay the fines and then shut their business down.

There is no way to stop piracy. The only way to mitigate it is for the industry to pull its collective head out of its ass.

 

[Azuremen]

I know that piracy is just the excuse for the bill, but I just couldn't stand people saying piracy is fine.

Here is a question for everyone though.
How do you stop piracy without taking out the websites that allow it?

The only way to stop it would be by stopping the people who enable it. It's just like the U.S. always complaining about illegal imigrants. The way to stop that is to fine the people who hire them beyond they're ability to pay the fines and then shut their business down.

You can't stop it, oh my. My dad had a great expression - Locks keep honest people out. If you start banning websites, the savvy will go back to IRC, and if that gets banned, people will just start trading burned DVDs and such again.

Really, the best way to combat it is to offer a better business model. For instance, you can download a TV show an hour after it comes out, why on earth would someone want to wait for the company to put it up on Hulu a week later? Or movies for release - you can often download the HD quality release of a movie weeks before it goes on sale.

Some companies are getting the right idea though. Spotify is super convienent, effectively free with minor ad time, and has most music anyone would want. Services like that will reduce the need for most people to pirate music, and at $10 a month for their premium model, which allows for downloading, syncing with mobile devices, and over the air streaming of music, it makes it quite easy and cheap to just avoid that hassle of finding a torrent or other source.

Basically, they have to compete with it, which means making "purchasing" cheap and easy enough to make piracy pointless.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Please guys don't feel sorry for the music industry.

The music industry has hurt artist and my ears for too long. Pretty much every decade music has just gone downhill; it’s just a VERY lucrative business now that makes a few people very rich. Jeez, look at X factor and all of those shows, most often a freak circus that makes some already rich people even richer while the lucky artist gets some piss poor royalty for a single/album while the other hopefulls mostly get mocked and laughed at!

Don't think Pirating hurts real/normal people because it does not, and if you believe the industry sob story, then you are naive and ill informed. And when it does it is not necessary!

As soon as the record label CEO's start selling their prized Yachts or 4th holiday homes then I may change my mind.

I never bought a CD prior to ever downloading music, I just borrowed them, but now the music I have is counted as a sales loss to the industry, music I would have never bought should Downloading have not been available to me. It makes me laugh.

And don't get me started with Hollywood, James Cameron earned $257 million in 2010. Jonny Depp, 2010 earnings $100 million, don't forget the 2009 2008 2007 2006 earnings, and so on!! The 40th highest paid Hollywood actor Eddie Murphy earned $13.5 million in 2010. That is obscene while I know people earning £5.75 per hour shovelling ****e!! (And I thought the economy was in tatters, evidently only for the poor minority)

The above to me does not sound like an industry that is suffering. It sounds like an industry that is greedy, and wants more for those that control it.

You may say theft is theft regardless of the above. I say you are right, but I don't care and why should I, because while those Hollywood moguls drink there champagne, they do not care about me, nor do the Bankers or the city Traders care about me or you. These people are in it for themselves, self-gain, self-elevation and accumulation at almost any cost. So please don't be moralising to me about me or anybody else that downloads some 0s and 1s, that hurt nobody and making me/you "the little man" enemy number 1.

The ONLY possible time a real person is hurt, is when Mr CEO does not want to sacrifice a penny of his $10 million EOY bonus so he puts the order in for some cutbacks so Brenda the sweet old dinner lady in the head office Cafe gets a pay cut or looses her job. But yeahm that is my fault of course!

 

[bergauk]

HACKr and Azuremen have the right idea.

The industry needs to make a better business model.

Things like Autocad, sure its 3k$, a business that uses it would pay 3k$ for it. But what if it was 300$? I bet you could find 10 people EASILY WILLING to pay 300$ for it. It isn't a profit, but it's not as if you lost anything by changing the price. Right? Infact, you just gained more customers by lowering it.

The idea that something could be justifiably overpriced is stupid. And until companies realize this, people are going to keep on pirating stuff.

 

[Casio]

Things like Autocad, sure its 3k$, a business that uses it would pay 3k$ for it. But what if it was 300$? I bet you could find 10 people EASILY WILLING to pay 300$ for it. It isn't a profit, but it's not as if you lost anything by changing the price. Right? Infact, you just gained more customers by lowering it.

It actually costs more as you have to factor in things like support costs for 10 times the customer base. If I can sell 4 things for $100,000, or 400,000 things for $1 it's pretty obvious to every business which one to go for.

I completely agree with Azure, while I don't think pirating software because you think it's 'too expensive', is justifiable. The TV industry is a completely different matter, as they offer items for free, or for subscription for one delivery service, but then completely neglect the Internet...I'd happily pay a fee too consume content broadcast live in the US (Hell, include ads, I don't care), but that's not offered.