ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 14,294
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
I wonder if the publicity will lead to her getting an additional donation to her college fund.
Student Denied Diploma, Fined $1,000 for Feather
- Thread starter braunracing88
- 87 comments
- 4,161 views
- 3,475
- Vilnius
Yep, they trust the students and aren't trying to control every aspect of how they look, what they eat or how they breathe. Schools should concentrate on the quality of education and not on dresscodes or your private life. Why this is bad is beyond me.
niky
When you litter, someone has to walk through your garbage and clean it up. Who do you hurt when you wear a feather or glasses or a tie?
- 40,866
Such exaggerations don't do wonders for your point when you still haven't explained why a girl refusing to follow a dress code that she agreed to follow as a member of a private school should be treated as a Rosa Parks moment.
Also, it is a private school, so the quality of the education is probably a lot better regardless of the dress code.
- 24,636
- Anoka, MN
It explains your "down with the man" attitude found in most 16-20 year olds. There is nothing wrong with it as long as you don't actually go around spitting on people(really hoping you were using a figure of speech there).
This is a school event, not her private life.
Nobody, but the point is that the school said no and she did it anyways. If this were a public school she would have a very good case, but it's a private school which is completely different.
- 35,423
- Downtown North Dakota
- Cy-Fi
Way to bring something into the discussion that many of us require to function daily. Completely different things. You are completely missing the point of a ceremony dress code.
Also, my place of employment has a dress code. If I violate it, you better believe I'm getting talked to about it. Continue with the violation and I'll get written up. Get written up and I get no yearly raise (in essence paying for the violation). Seems pretty similar to this case.
- 3,475
- Vilnius
@Tornado
Was it her descision or was it her parents' when she was a kid?
She was following the dress code - she wore the uniform or whatever they have to wear and only had a feather on top of it.
Yeah, private schools must have a rule that they're better than normals schools, otherwise someone would get fined.
TB, I had sunglasses in mind - a popular fashion accessory many people would likely like to wear.
So if you wear all of your mandatory outfit and only plus, let's say, a sports watch, you'd get an infraction? Or would your asian coworker would get fired if she had a pair of chopsticks in her hair on top of wearing the mandatory uniform?
Was it her descision or was it her parents' when she was a kid?
She was following the dress code - she wore the uniform or whatever they have to wear and only had a feather on top of it.
Yeah, private schools must have a rule that they're better than normals schools, otherwise someone would get fined.
TB, I had sunglasses in mind - a popular fashion accessory many people would likely like to wear.
So if you wear all of your mandatory outfit and only plus, let's say, a sports watch, you'd get an infraction? Or would your asian coworker would get fired if she had a pair of chopsticks in her hair on top of wearing the mandatory uniform?
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While I agree that she crossed an established line, this is exactly the sort of arbitrary stick-up-the-butt nonsense that led me to skip my own graduation ceremony (for my bachelor's). I didn't know anyone else in my class anyway.
Rules are rules, but it's a 🤬 feather. I'm on both sides of this one...although the fine is ludicrous.
Rules are rules, but it's a 🤬 feather. I'm on both sides of this one...although the fine is ludicrous.
- 40,866
It was her decision to break the rules of the private school she was enrolled in.
Then she wasn't following the dress code. The fact that she asked beforehand if she could not follow the dress code and was denied also shows that she knew she wasn't.
*whoosh*
You're the one that argued that they should be focused on the quality of the education as opposed to a dress code, as if the two were mutually exclusive. As a private school, it is likely that they already do, and the dress code may or may not be part of that. Since it was a diversionary point on your part regardless, it's irrelevant.
If you asked to in advance, they told you no and you did it anyway, sure.
- 3,475
- Vilnius
Maybe she, on her own will, wouldn't have enrolled in that school? Also, a school that doesn't let you make decisions won't teach you much.
You're correct. But my point is that there's a difference between the spirit of law and the word of law. In this case the dresscode should be there only so that some wiseguy wouldn't show up in bright green shorts and beach slippers. The girl just wanted to pay some heritage to her roots. From 20m away you wouldn't even notice the feather.
Let me ask this the other way round - does dresscode have any affect on the quality of education and is it necessery in order to have good education?
Not letting to do it in this case is nonsensical in the first place.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Your age isn't relevant here unless you bring it into the discussion, which you didn't, and for someone to call attention to it is uncalled for.
You're also right that some rules make no sense to some people, but just because we don't understand and don't agree with the rules, doesn't mean you can break them without consequence. Graduation dress, school uniforms, work dress codes are all things that carry with them the implied notion that you must forgo your own freedom of expression to particpate in those particular activities. Try wearing a red t-shirt and being a greeter at Walmart, or a blue uniform working for UPS, or try wearing bermuda shorts and a hawaiian shirt and deliever the mail and see how long you last. You are of course free to express yourself in the rest of your life. In this case, it would have made more sense for her to add the feather to her solo photo's if that's what she wished to do.
It also should teach her another valuable lesson that I learned early on in life. It's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission!!
- 7,436
- Canada
- photonrider
Where does one draw the line at reflecting their culture?
At the line the House Rules are drawn. A Naturist wouldn't be allowed to express their freedom either. Nor a political refugee their ideals.
Follow the House Rules, or don't play the game. Or get the House Rules changed.
The media frenzy, and the excessive fine, are of course, reflections of the culture of the dollar.
At the line the House Rules are drawn. A Naturist wouldn't be allowed to express their freedom either. Nor a political refugee their ideals.
Follow the House Rules, or don't play the game. Or get the House Rules changed.
The media frenzy, and the excessive fine, are of course, reflections of the culture of the dollar.
- 623
- Massachusetts
- MrTimmyA
Hope her family sues and wins.
- 3,460
- Hollywood
This is definitely what your forefathers fought for. Definitely.
Sue everyone, no win, no fee!
As photonrider quite rightly said, follow the house rules or don't play the game!
- 40,866
You mean to tell me that she might have decided not to go to the school entirely because when she graduated they would not have let her wear something that she didn't have permission to after she asked to do so?
Because you're reaching for something, but it's so tangential to what happened here that I can't even see what it is.
What decisions? To follow or not follow the rules in place for a formal event?
And she asked to, and was told she couldn't; but now she's attempting to have her cake and eat it. She got to walk with her feather, but now she wants her diploma with no further consequences even though they told her she wouldn't get it at the ceremony if she did.
And as far as "spirit of the law" goes, that only applies when you actually know what the intent for the rule was. You don't know whether it was to keep idiots from showing up like they were at the beach, or if it was a targeted effort to make the event formal. Besides, if a feather doesn't hurt anyone so that's okay for her to wear, why aren't bright green shorts and sandals?
I dunno. Does it? Again, you're the one who brought it up as if they were focusing on the dress code at the expense of the quality of education. Last I knew, private schools (and some public schools) mandate uniforms for exactly that justification.
The accuracy of that justification may be debated, but it is still moot because this still this wasn't even an issue at the school in a classroom setting. This was an issue at a formal event at the end of the year, so your "they should focus more education instead of dress codes" point still has nothing to do with anything.
And why is that? Why is it "nonsensical" for there to be a strict dress code in place at a private function for a private institution? Why is it comparably sensible that when you purposely break that dress code (after being told of what would happen in advance when you asked if you could be given a pass) you get to go to the news and claim you are a victim of discrimination, of all things?
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- 24,127
- Scarfolk
- Grim10
- Are you kidding?
I'm sorry, is there something I'm not getting? She broke the rules that were made clear to her.
Purposely didn't sign the mandatory contract, can't graduate on-stage at the ceremony.
This is not rocket science. People are so quick to cry 'discrimination' these days. If we make exceptions for one group of people, they no longer continue to be 'rules'.
- 24,127
- Scarfolk
- Grim10
- Are you kidding?
According to who?
What the feather represents is completely and utterly irrelevant at this juncture. I could ask them to go on stage wearing a full Timmy Mallett costume because I'm proud of my childhood. Does that mean I should be allowed when other students aren't?
Rules exist as a blanket set of instructions for all students to follow, which the institution can set at their discretion. The bottom line is that rules regarding what is and isn't allowed were in place, made exceptionally clear, and were broken.
- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
She asked permission first, following the rules. The school was in the wrong denying it in the first place as I said.
Then she broke the rules and was punished accordingly. This is an after-the-fact thing. The fact that she was punished for her fault is not the issue, the issue is that it shouldn't have been denied.
There is a difference between wearing a full costume and wearing an eagle feather.
- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
Let me ask you this. What good reason is there to deny it? Because of a rule? You're going to to deny someone the right to wear an extremely small symbol of said persons culture just because?
You should not be denied a diploma after attending school for that long because of a minor dress code violation, especially on the stage. In fact, is it even legal to deny a diploma after school is out for the year and the person is set to graduate??
I can see maybe in the case of public indecency or lewdness but not because of a 🤬 feather. Sorry, that just doesn't seem right.
- 24,127
- Scarfolk
- Grim10
- Are you kidding?
You're still about fifty clicks east of the entire point.
I didn't make any comment on whether the rule was fair or not. The fact is that the rule is made at the High School's discretion. If you don't like a rule and therefore don't follow it, you can expect to get punished. The rule is blanket and applies to everyone. The High School is free to enforce the dress code they set. If I was wearing a crucifix and they asked me to remove it, and I then did not remove it, I would fully expect there to be repercussions.
Whether or not you think it's right is neither relevant nor consequential.
I didn't make any comment on whether the rule was fair or not. The fact is that the rule is made at the High School's discretion. If you don't like a rule and therefore don't follow it, you can expect to get punished. The rule is blanket and applies to everyone. The High School is free to enforce the dress code they set. If I was wearing a crucifix and they asked me to remove it, and I then did not remove it, I would fully expect there to be repercussions.
Whether or not you think it's right is neither relevant nor consequential.
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
In all fairness there was a rule which she disregarded and I don't she why she shouldn't face the consequences. It's not exactly unreasonable to ask for a dress code at a graduation which is only a couple of hours.
Had she not been aware of the rule that's another issue but to be aware, ask and still not listen well your just asking for trouble and if its something as important as your diploma at stake then you need to look at your priorities. People have had to suck it up for much less.
You can be proud of something or have something dear to you without necessarily showing it, as long as you know it why do you need to show it? You can show what it means to you all the rest of the time.
Had she not been aware of the rule that's another issue but to be aware, ask and still not listen well your just asking for trouble and if its something as important as your diploma at stake then you need to look at your priorities. People have had to suck it up for much less.
You can be proud of something or have something dear to you without necessarily showing it, as long as you know it why do you need to show it? You can show what it means to you all the rest of the time.
- 5,897
- Canada
Like it or not, the point is that she agreed to it, and so she should not have been breaking the rules. It's just like GTP and the AUP, really...
However, the $1,000 fine does seem a bit hefty. I have a feeling that the school is trying to exploit the importance of the diploma to the girl.
- 6,041
- Puget Sound
- Crash852
Ok, I'm going to go there...
What if it was a swastika instead?
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It's a private institution that had a certain set of contractual rules. She obviously broke the rules, so she is being punished for it. It's not relevant whether the rules were fair or not, they are the rules and she broke them.
What if it was a swastika instead?
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It's a private institution that had a certain set of contractual rules. She obviously broke the rules, so she is being punished for it. It's not relevant whether the rules were fair or not, they are the rules and she broke them.
- 35,423
- Downtown North Dakota
- Cy-Fi
When you run your own school, feel free to do so and set whatever rules you'd like as you see fit. Until then, it's not your place to say that what the school decided based on the rules they have in place are right or wrong.
The issue with this, and anything like it, is not the act itself, necessarily, but the precedence that the decision sets. If they allow the feather, next year it will be someone wanting a cross because they're Christian, then someone will want a Native American costume and full Zulu garb. Draw the line. Stick to it. That's what they've done. Simple as that.
Violate the AUP, pay $1,000.
I.
Like.
This.
- 1,729
- San Francisco
- pdawg731
They are at their own discretion to accept or deny whatever they want due to being a private school. She signed a contract, and was held to it when she broke the dress code by wearing the feather.
Private schools are independent of the government, allowing them to do just about whatever they want. If the student signed a contract agreeing to to these terms, then that's how its going to stay.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
If I put a little piece of paper instead of a feather, will I get fined ? They should have just taken the feather away from her or ask nicely on the spot to remove it, and no need for further drama with the diploma and fine.
