Student Loan Forgiveness - US

[Scaff]

You are in such a rage, you're not even reading what I type.

I'm really not and I've read every word (the same it not, once again, true for you)

Hilarious. My statements are fairly clear.

Nope.

Covid, as a national emergency is basically over. No masks, no mandates unless in a medical facility. Again, what does that have to do with student debt? Really?

Has the national emergence put in place by Trump in 2020 been ended? No.

Does the Education secretary have the legal power to forgive student debt during a national emergency? Yes.

It's really not complex.

Be honest. Strawman. 😂

Oh, dear.

Taxes were for defense and infrastructure (general welfare).

General welfare isn't just infrastructure, and it wasn't just taxes. That you still don't get that despite the exact wording being posted numerous times is quite, quite shocking (and makes it quite clear you are the one not reading what's being posted).

 

[TexRex]

You are in such a rage, you're not even reading what I type.

Has no recollection whatsoever of previous bitchfit in this subforum.

 

[Racer294]

I'm really not and I've read every word (the same it not, once again, true for you)

Nope.

Has the national emergence put in place by Trump in 2020 been ended? No.

Does the Education secretary have the legal power to forgive student debt during a national emergency? Yes.

It's really not complex.

Oh, dear.

General welfare isn't just infrastructure, and it wasn't just taxes. That you still don't get that despite the exact wording being posted numerous times is quite, quite shocking (and makes it quite clear you are the one not reading what's being posted).

Dear Lord. You seem a very smart person. But, you have little common sense. Seriously. Arguing the COTUS. Are you a constitutional scholar?
One more time. WHAT DOES STUDENT DEBT HAVE TO DO WITH A NATIONAL EMERGENCY? Just because DOE has that "power" does not make it appropriate or necessary.
I think that your dislike/bias of what I am writing, is causing you to misread it. Just a guess.

 

[Danoff]

Starting immediately after the beginnings of these programs, over the last 50-60 years, secondary education costs have risen almost in lockstep with the widespread advent of the Pell and subsidized GSL programs - except at 4-year private institutions, which have far outpaced them. I don't see how you can pretend that this is due entirely to outside factors.

Here are some research papers on the subject, they don't seem to support your conclusion.

Opinion | The Wall Street Journal Is Wrong About Pell Grants

Fiscal conservatives should embrace an increase in funding the program.

www.politico.com

 

[Scaff]

Dear Lord. You seem a very smart person. But, you have little common sense.

Ah, ad-hominin attacks.

Seriously. Arguing the COTUS. Are you a constitutional scholar?

You're the one misquoting it, not me.

One more time. WHAT DOES STUDENT DEBT HAVE TO DO WITH A NATIONAL EMERGENCY? Just because DOE has that "power" does not make it appropriate or necessary.

I didn't claim it was appropriate, but then again that wasn't the point I was arguing, because that wasn't the argument you were making. Maybe try not posting Fox, etc. strawmen arguments and they might fair better.

However lets look at what it could have to do with student debt, a number of things actually, from Covid causing the economic impact on people ability to repay, across to HE insistutions failing taking students fees down with them.

I think that your dislike/bias of what I am writing, is causing you to misread it. Just a guess.

I'm simply addressing the points you make, don't attempt to blame me for the logical issues with them or your lack of critical reasoning.

 

[Danoff]

@Racer294

Some of the covid bailout money has been spent on medical supplies, vaccinations, and testing. Most of the covid money has been to prop up financial fallout, and that's a bipartisan position. It's not a libertarian position, but it has been a position that republicans and democrats agreed upon, especially when Trump was in office.

 

[Racer294]

@Racer294

Some of the covid bailout money has been spent on medical supplies, vaccinations, and testing. Most of the covid money has been to prop up financial fallout, and that's a bipartisan position. It's not a libertarian position, but it has been a position that republicans and democrats agreed upon, especially when Trump was in office.

True. No argument there. Was needed at the time. Pausing student loans was also a good move. We are still dealing with the virus, that means keeping up with vaccines and other drugs that work. Or show effective in treatment.

 

[Danoff]

True. No argument there. Was needed at the time. Pausing student loans was also a good move. We are still dealing with the virus, that means keeping up with vaccines and other drugs that work. Or show effective in treatment.

Ok, so you're on board with the idea that pausing student loans IS actually related to the pandemic. But you're not on board with the idea that debt forgiveness is related to the pandemic. Can you walk me through that?

 

[Racer294]

Ah, ad-hominin attacks.

You're the one misquoting it, not me.

I didn't claim it was appropriate, but then again that wasn't the point I was arguing, because that wasn't the argument you were making. Maybe try not posting Fox, etc. strawmen arguments and you might

I'm simply addressing the points you make, don't attempt to blame me for the logical issues with them or your lack of critical reasoning.

I'm sorry, where is the misquote of the constitution? I did layman's define it.

I missed where you said that this was not appropriate. You seem to defend it.

I like the debate. You have your stand ,l mine. I actually have skin in the game. You are in the UK, right?

Ok, so you're on board with the idea that pausing student loans IS actually related to the pandemic. But you're not on board with the idea that debt forgiveness is related to the pandemic. Can you walk me through that?

Pretty simple. You are responsible for your debt. Pausing payments was to cushion people being layoff or for students not in class. Many people are back to work. Although inflation is kicking everyone in the nuts. Did I get mortgage or car payment pauses? Nope. But, I did work every day of this pandemic. Landlords did get screwed, but that another can of worms.
I think continue the pause or forgive interest.

 

[Scaff]

I'm sorry, where is the misquote of the constitution?

Easy point out the word Infrastructure in Article 1 section 8, and show where it's just 'taxes', you also missed out debt.

I missed where you said that this was not appropriate.

I didn't actually state a position one way or another regarding how appropriate the use of Emergency powers was, you assumed, based on a strawman argument. I've since outlined how it could be appropriate, but still not actually stated a position. You could try actually asking.

You seem to defend it.

Seem? See how you made an assumption.

 

[Racer294]

Easy point out the word Infrastructure in Article 1 section 8, and show where it's just 'taxes', you also missed out debt.

Raising a defense and building infrastructure creates debt. Taxes pay for that. Plus the debt we incurred from kicking the RedCoats out. A might far stretch to keep reacting on. I never qouted COTUS! And my point is accurate.

I didn't actually state a position one way or another regarding how appropriate the use of Emergency powers was, you assumed, based on a strawman argument. I've since outlined how it could be appropriate, but still not actually stated a position. You could try actually asking.

Really? It's not a strawman. It's a fact.

Seem? See how you made an assumption.

"Seem" is not definitive, a lot like your position

I never qouted or linked Fox news either.

 

[Scaff]

Raising a defense and building infrastructure creates debt. Taxes pay for that. Plus the debt we incurred from kicking the RedCoats out. A might far stretch to keep reacting on. I never qouted COTUS! And my point is accurate.

What document were you citing when you said "It's original concept was national defense and infrastructure." then?

Really? It's not a strawman. It's a fact.

It 100% is, please remember what you said...

Student debt is not a war or natural disaster.

...which while a statement of fact, is a strawman argument, as literally, no one claimed anything of the kind in regard to loan forgiveness. It's a strawman argument used by the right-wing press you have simply parrotted.

"Seem" is not definitive, a lot like your position

I know, I just said that, but you assumed otherwise.

I literally said "I didn't actually state a position one way or another regarding how appropriate the use of Emergency powers was, you assumed, based on a strawman argument. I've since outlined how it could be appropriate, but still not actually stated a position. You could try actually asking.", so I've no idea why you need to reiterate it as if it's some kind of 'gotcha', it's not.

Tip: The better response here would have been to ask, repeating my point as a 'gotcha' just makes it look like you didn't actually read what I said (twice).

 

[TexRex]

lol

 

[Danoff]

Pretty simple. You are responsible for your debt. Pausing payments was to cushion people being layoff or for students not in class.

Payments are part of debt - arguably the only important part. Specifically, payments are what the principle is being exchanged for. Paying the principle early is a remedy or escape clause in the contract, not the actual consideration.

Why are student loan payments appropriate for relief under covid but not student loan principle? You suggested in your post even further that student loan interest would be appropriate to forgive. Why is student loan interest appropriate for relief under covid but not student loan principle?

 

[Racer294]

What document were you citing when you said "It's original concept was national defense and infrastructure." then

...which while a statement of fact, is a strawman argument, as literally, no one claimed anything of the kind in regard to loan forgiveness. It's a strawman argument used by the right-wing press you have simply parrotted.

I know, I just said that, but you assumed otherwise.

I literally said "I didn't actually state a position one way or another regarding how appropriate the use of Emergency powers was, you assumed, based on a strawman argument. I've since outlined how it could be appropriate, but still not actually stated a position. You could try actually asking.", so I've no idea why you need to reiterate it as if it's some kind of 'gotcha', it's not.

Tip: The better response here would have been to ask, repeating my point as a 'gotcha' just makes it look like you didn't actually read what I said (twice).

The last five replies I've posted. One word keeps popping up. Petty. That's you. Your circular argument keeps bringing up the same things. You have this idea that you're winning this debate. You're not. I don't think I am either. But, I'm solid in my opinion and that's all I care about. You just keep rattling off same stuff. Live in your little world.

 

[Duke]

@Danoff -

I believe you’re willfully missing my point.

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff -

I believe you’re willfully missing my point.

You're incorrect then. If I'm missing your point, it's not for lack of trying. Please be patient with me and try again.

 

[Scaff]

The last five replies I've posted. One word keeps popping up. Petty. That's you. Your circular argument keeps bringing up the same things. You have this idea that you're winning this debate. You're not. I don't think I am either. But, I'm solid in my opinion and that's all I care about. You just keep rattling off same stuff. Live in your little world.

So you don't have a rebutal or anything to defend you position, so your again resorting to ad-hominem attacks.

 

[Racer294]

Payments are part of debt - arguably the only important part. Specifically, payments are what the principle is being exchanged for. Paying the principle early is a remedy or escape clause in the contract, not the actual consideration.

Why are student loan payments appropriate for relief under covid but not student loan principle? You suggested in your post even further that student loan interest would be appropriate to forgive. Why is student loan interest appropriate for relief under covid but not student loan principle?

I'm only saying the pause for covid is/was valid. For those that needed it. Some did continue to make payments.

 

[Danoff]

I'm only saying the pause for covid is/was valid. For those that needed it. Some did continue to make payments.

Student loans are related to covid emergency bailouts, but not related to covid emergency bailouts, depending on when you want it to be. Got it.

 

[Racer294]

Student loans are related to covid emergency bailouts, but not related to covid emergency bailouts, depending on when you want it to be. Got it.

It's not a bailout. Those that have their loan paused are still responsible for repayment. This is not the same thing. Having debt cancelled under covid is a bridge to far. To slightly different propositions. I see what you're trying to do.

So you don't have a rebutal or anything to defend you position, so your again resorting to ad-hominem attacks.

I've stated my position. Several times.
You are a UK subject correct?

 

[Danoff]

It's not a bailout. Those that have their loan paused are still responsible for repayment. This is not the same thing. Having debt cancelled under covid is a bridge to far. To slightly different propositions. I see what you're trying to do.

They're both important terms on the loan, as is interest (which you also mentioned forgiving). Again, I think you're just picking and choosing what you think fits and doesn't. These two things are directly adjacent to each other and you're acting like one of them is just absurd under covid and the other isn't.

Your argument doesn't make sense.

 

[Racer294]

They're both important terms on the loan, as is interest (which you also mentioned forgiving). Again, I think you're just picking and choosing what you think fits and doesn't. These two things are directly adjacent to each other and you're acting like one of them is just absurd under covid and the other isn't.

Your argument doesn't make sense.

I like to think I'm a nice guy, loan payment pause. I'm not a sucker, loan forgiveness. You can push that **** to someone else. You choose to go to college, you pay YOUR debt.

 

[Famine]

It's not a strawman. It's a fact.

There's nothing preventing a strawman fallacy from being a fact.

Strawman doesn't mean a lie or falsehood. It means an argument constructed against a point that was not made. The argument itself could well be factual, but if it's arguing a point that wasn't made it's also a strawman.

 

[Danoff]

I like to think I'm a nice guy, loan payment pause. I'm not a sucker, loan forgiveness. You can push that **** to someone else. You choose to go to college, you pay YOUR debt.

You completely missed my point. I'm not pushing anything here. Your argument was that this is not related to the pandemic, and your argument doesn't make sense based on your other statements.

 

[Racer294]

You completely missed my point. I'm not pushing anything here. Your argument was that this is not related to the pandemic, and your argument doesn't make sense based on your other statements.

Actually student loan forgiveness has been a serious campaign promise for democrats for about 8 years. It's never was pandemic related. The pandemic was the excuse to try. Your confusing my being ok with loan payment pause and unwillingness for forgiveness. How can you not be for both. It's pretty clear.

 

[McLaren]

Petty. That's you.

Nah, that definitely seems more like you in that big goldfish bag of irony you're stuck in, accusing Scaff of things you're clearly the one doing.

 

[Racer294]

Nah, that definitely seems more like you in that big goldfish bag of irony you're stuck in, accusing Scaff of things you're clearly the one doing.

Nah. Your opinion.

 

[McLaren]

Nah. Your opinion.

Nope, clear as day. You pulled a lame ass, "You think you're winning this, but you're not", retort because you've decided instead of actually debating, you want to make believe a trivial point that Scaff is purposely misquoting you & trying to go in circles when that's clearly you.

I think you've over estimated your big boy britches from the GT forum once more coming back in here, & I'm sure when you run out of talking points with Danoff, you'll sulk back to that section crying right-wing trigger words again.

 

[Scaff]

I've stated my position. Several times.

And I've corrected errors and outright inaccuracy with much of it, the majority of which you've failed to address.

You are a UK subject correct?

Which has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand, or do you think it somehow invalidates my views or the accuracy of facts?