Student Loan Forgiveness - US

[NotThePrez]

lol

I feel like this is one of those "say that again out loud, and slowly" type of situations.

 

[Populuxe]

The White House is NOT PLAYING with these Republican hypocrites. This whole thread is brilliant.

 

[Danoff]

Actually student loan forgiveness has been a serious campaign promise for democrats for about 8 years. It's never was pandemic related. The pandemic was the excuse to try. Your confusing my being ok with loan payment pause and unwillingness for forgiveness. How can you not be for both. It's pretty clear.

You're trying to deflect again. It has nothing to do with whether it was a campaign promise, or even whether you support it. It's also not about whether you can be for one and not the other. The question, based on your own arguments, is whether it is related to the pandemic. You pretended that it was completely unrelated, and your position on that makes no sense in light of the fact that you think payments and interest on student loans IS related and WOULD be appropriate for relief due to the pandemic.

You're pretending that it's completely unrelated for a reason, and that reason is that you want to be critical right now, and you didn't want to be critical before.

 

[Imari]

Boomers are the ones who brainwashed young people into believing college was necessary for a decent life.

It's not so much brainwashing when so many jobs start requiring college degrees just to get in the door. You can argue that it's the boomers in charge setting these unnecessarily high bars to entry and I wouldn't disagree, but it's not really fair to write off the young people who went through college as if they were simply victims of intentional misinformation.

Brainwashing suggests that this was a purely psychological effect that could have been avoided through knowledge. That's not the case, one of the objective factors driving people into college degrees is the ridiculous qualification requirements for even entry level jobs. It's a bad system, but responding as best you can to a bad system is not the same as being brainwashed.

 

[Gingerale]

The White House is NOT PLAYING with these Republican hypocrites. This whole thread is brilliant.

Wow they're after everyone one of em. This is hilarious but also kinda sad. I really have no clue how people like Greene, Boebert or many other idiots I see coming on Twitter/Reddit. Nor do I get why people vote for them.

It's also really dangerous because as a Dutch person we see some usual US politics in the regular news channels and on social media a lot of these people, I really starting to feel most people don't have a correct vision on what's going on over there. It scares me.

 

[Sprite]

Racer294
Actually no. It's original concept was national defense and infrastructure. Some necessary social programs have created a voluminous current federal budget. I mean those programs have gotten way out of hand. Under both parties.

So what you’re saying is…

You’re happy for the tax payer to pay for the education and training of young men and women who’ll lay their lives down to defend your right to post on forum arguing over what is a small monetary drop in the ocean relatively speaking.

But you’re not happy for that same money to pay for the education of young men and women who one day may perform surgery on you to save your life, or come up with a cure for cancer which could save a loved ones life etc.

I have a student loan here in the UK, I’m currently paying it back. I don’t mind paying mine back. But if the government said they would pay back the remainder I’d be thrilled as it would then free up more of my wage each month which I could then (shock, horror) spend and put back in the the economy and benefit everyone.

 

[Tornado]

Damn your blind. 😂

Your confusing

 

[UKMikey]

You are a UK subject correct?

Which has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand, or do you think it somehow invalidates my views or the accuracy of facts?

LOL, sounds familiar.

Where do you live? It's a known fact.

 

[Racer294]

You're trying to deflect again. It has nothing to do with whether it was a campaign promise, or even whether you support it. It's also not about whether you can be for one and not the other. The question, based on your own arguments, is whether it is related to the pandemic. You pretended that it was completely unrelated, and your position on that makes no sense in light of the fact that you think payments and interest on student loans IS related and WOULD be appropriate for relief due to the pandemic.

You're pretending that it's completely unrelated for a reason, and that reason is that you want to be critical right now, and you didn't want to be critical before.

My compromise, which is what it is, is to pause loan payments. But not forgive student loans. I thought that was a correct option during the beginning of the pandemic. Under the Heroes act(a 9/11 era law) it is allowed. Fine. Understand that law was poorly written and full of loopholes.

So what you’re saying is…

You’re happy for the tax payer to pay for the education and training of young men and women who’ll lay their lives down to defend your right to post on forum arguing over what is a small monetary drop in the ocean relatively speaking.

But you’re not happy for that same money to pay for the education of young men and women who one day may perform surgery on you to save your life, or come up with a cure for cancer which could save a loved ones life etc.

I have a student loan here in the UK, I’m currently paying it back. I don’t mind paying mine back. But if the government said they would pay back the remainder I’d be thrilled as it would then free up more of my wage each month which I could then (shock, horror) spend and put back in the the economy and benefit everyone.

Not at all what I said! I was in the Army for 4 years and went to combat for it! You want a pat on the back for paying off your obligation? Sorry. That what you're supposed to do. Along with everyone else that makes the same choice. You made a personal decision to improve your employment opportunities and income.

My opinion is clear. I don't like that one person decided to add $300B to the deficit and national debt. There are no facts , because the rules aren't out yet. Many economists think it's a bad idea. See the Washington Post. Many Democrats agree. It's estimated that every American is now on the hook for about $1500. This relief only applies to federal loans and Pell grants. Refinanced private loans don't get relief.

 

[Danoff]

My compromise, which is what it is, is to pause loan payments. But not forgive student loans. I thought that was a correct option during the beginning of the pandemic. Under the Heroes act(a 9/11 era law) it is allowed. Fine. Understand that law was poorly written and full of loopholes.

As I said a moment ago, this is beside the point. You were claiming that student loan debt is unrelated to the pandemic, here you tacitly admit that it is related. You should at this point be realizing that you made an argument that doesn't make sense and is hypercritical in light of your own statements. It's time to recant.

 

[Sprite]

Not at all what I said! I was in the Army for 4 years and went to combat for it! You want a pat on the back for paying off your obligation? Sorry. That what you're supposed to do. Along with everyone else that makes the same choice. You made a personal decision to improve your employment opportunities and income.

But it equates to the same thing.

You chose a military service. You completed 4 years and saw combat.

So to re-quote you…

“That what you're supposed to do. Along with everyone else that makes the same choice.”

Now you’re out of the Army, I’m sure they taught you some skills to use outside of the military to improve your employment opportunities and income?

They did this on the back of tax payers money. So why can’t others have the same considerations you were given?

You see, as a patriot as you are. All Americans are in it together, your tax money goes to pay to help someone train and be educated, thus adding to the benefit of you and your fellow Americans, surly that circle of life is better than…

Keep all students despite employment status in a perpetual debt which in quite a lot of cases can be more harmful to not only the economy but also the well being of those individuals?

 

[Tornado]

lol

I gotta say I've been thinking of this ever since I saw it at work last night and I will be very disappointed if an Onion article doesn't come out that isn't just that Tweet as the title and a picture of him as the body.

 

[Danoff]

I do understand when people say that student loan forgiveness isn't fair, or that it isn't a good idea. I even understand the argument that the executive shouldn't be able to do this via executive order. And I sympathize with those sentiments.

Folks need to keep some perspective here. Pell Grants are federal money given to students that display some level of financial need in order to help them go to college. It's something that has been around for a long time. Pell Grants are not fair, and fairness is not the point - they're suppose to help kids who need it afford college. It's a program to help maintain upward mobility.

Pell Grants are not particularly different from debt forgiveness. If you're asking yourself why someone's student loan debt should be forgiven, ask yourself why they should be given a Pell Grant. It's a very similar question. The idea that this is astonishingly new, or fundamentally changes things, or even that it's outside of the scope of power of the executive branch is all out of touch with reality. It is not particularly new, it does not fundamentally change things, and it doesn't appear to be outside of the scope of the executive branch.

To take issue with this in a principled fashion, you need to be arguing that the federal government should not be offering Pell Grants, or be involved in student loans at all. If someone is upset that military service includes debt forgiveness, consider that this exists because the federal government is involved in student loans in the first place and the government decided that military service is worth forgiving that debt.

Feeling some sort of new outrage over this seems out of place.

 

[Rich S]

No I want to use actual facts and accurate data, you want to make **** up and pretend its real, then avoid them like the plague once that's made obvious.

No, you're fine with paying for the commitments of big business and the ultra-rich, but not the 99% who are far closer to you.

That makes you something, but I will let you pick the word.

While I respect your feelings and many others on this issue, personally I feel spending is far too high, and for people without debt inflation over the last year has hurt too much. I feel this is largely a 10-20k stimulus check for certain millennials in exchange for dem votes
And you know what, don't feel bad about my opinion because most of the united state s media if not all of it supports the democrats and whatever policies they choose no matter how ugly.
As far as the poor. They get a 25-50 basis point inflation hike and no 10-20k stimulus. Taxes are spent by the govt plus even more which get added to the annual and total deficits.........does a tax break to a rich billionaire really increase inflation as much as gov spending. Ask oneself, who carries debt, Elon musk or the fed govt. Who has an extreme spending problem, the feds or a business owner. How does govt get it's funding? Are they selling a product?

 

[Scaff]

While I respect your feelings and many others on this issue, personally I feel spending is far too high, and for people without debt inflation over the last year has hurt too much. I feel this is largely a 10-20k stimulus check for certain millennials in exchange for dem votes
And you know what, don't feel bad about my opinion because most of the united state s media if not all of it supports the democrats and whatever policies they choose no matter how ugly.

The media's all dem biased? I'm in the UK and even I know that's nonsense.

As far as the poor. They get a 25-50 basis point inflation hike and no 10-20k
stimulus.

Which is a wider issue with the US as well as being whataboutism.

Taxes are spent by the govt plus even more which get added to the annual and total deficits.........does a tax break to a rich billionaire really increase inflation as much as gov spending. Ask oneself, who carries debt, Elon musk or the fed govt. Who has an extreme spending problem, the feds or a business owner. How does govt get it's funding? Are they selling a product?

Ah corporate socialism good, but rugged individualism for everyone else.

 

[Rich S]

The media's all dem biased? I'm in the UK and even I know that's nonsense.

Which is a wider issue with the US as well as being whataboutism.

Ah corporate socialism good, but rugged individualism for everyone else.

Socialism is social ownership of production via "community" ala govt. A tax cut hardly qualifies as that as it is capital that has but cut from the "community ownership."

I wouldn't have a problem if I lived in a country that gives me free healthcare, ssi Incase of Illness or injury, etc but you see I don't have access to that. Instead some money got "made" (big print) and given out to other people who created no capital and were taxed nothing as they contributed nothing to the community... They hurt the community with higher inflation..


I live in the USA all my life and for much of it our media aka TV, internet, etc has been democrat party cheerleaders. Of course not every time, but a majority of the time...

 

[Danoff]

free healthcare, ssi Incase of Illness or injury, etc but you see I don't have access to that

Ever heard of medicare, medicaid, social security, welfare, the earned income tax credit, the child tax credit, food stamps, section 8 housing, pell grants?

 

[Scaff]

Socialism is social ownership of production via "community" ala govt. A tax cut hardly qualifies as that as it is capital that has but cut from the "community ownership."

It can be, but it also isn't limited to that at all.

I wouldn't have a problem if I lived in a country that gives me free healthcare, ssi Incase of Illness or injury, etc but you see I don't have access to that. Instead some money got "made" (big print) and given out to other people who created no capital and were taxed nothing as they contributed nothing to the community... They hurt the community with higher inflation..


I live in the USA all my life and for much of it our media aka TV, internet, etc has been democrat party cheerleaders. Of course not every time, but a majority of the time...

Oh dear, you don't seem to understand that a good percentage of those getting student loan forgiveness will be both working and paying tax. That extra money will also go back into the economy, not something that can be said for the companies in most cases.

 

[Imari]

They hurt the community with higher inflation...

That's what happens when people spend money. If you don't want inflation, then by all means give money to rich people who won't spend it on anything. Seems kinda ineffective at the whole helping the country get along in a tough time thing though.

 

[BloodRaven]

2003-2006
I went to school
I had student loans
I paid off those loans
I worked part-time jobs, most times, to do it. i hardly had any "spending money" during that time. But I got it done.

I don't see how that's so difficult for other people to do. And I don't even have a job in the field that my 2 degrees are in. I paid money for a skill that I'm not even using. Hell, I've forgotten probably 90-95% of what I learned. So to me, it was actually wasted money. Some of that was thanks to that particular school not teaching current things; which I found out when I start job hunting. The things they wanted you to know were NOT what was being taught in that school. And when I inquired about the programs I'd learned to use, they ALL said, "Yeah, nobody uses those, anymore. We all use "X"." So I was behind from the get-go. But hey, that's life and you have to play the hand you've been dealt (or the one you chose, as it were). If I could do it all over again, I'd go to a much different school and learn something totally different. Now, I'm contemplating taking more classes and learning a skill that I KNOW pays decent and is in demand.

 

[Imari]

I don't see how that's so difficult for other people to do.

Profile pic checks out.

 

[Scaff]

2003-2006
I went to school
I had student loans
I paid off those loans
I worked part-time jobs, most times, to do it. i hardly had any "spending money" during that time. But I got it done.

I don't see how that's so difficult for other people to do. And I don't even have a job in the field that my 2 degrees are in. I paid money for a skill that I'm not even using. Hell, I've forgotten probably 90-95% of what I learned. So to me, it was actually wasted money. Some of that was thanks to that particular school not teaching current things; which I found out when I start job hunting. The things they wanted you to know were NOT what was being taught in that school. And when I inquired about the programs I'd learned to use, they ALL said, "Yeah, nobody uses those, anymore. We all use "X"." So I was behind from the get-go. But hey, that's life and you have to play the hand you've been dealt (or the one you chose, as it were). If I could do it all over again, I'd go to a much different school and learn something totally different. Now, I'm contemplating taking more classes and learning a skill that I KNOW pays decent and is in demand.

Anecdote isn't the singular of evidence, and the world has changed quite a bit in the last 15 years.

Oh, and it takes quite the person to use the 'I suffered so you should too' argument.

 

[Populuxe]

People who say “I paid off my student loans, why can’t everyone else?” are always speaking from points of view that are at least twenty years out of date. They genuinely do not realize how much college tuition and the accompanying loans have increased since then.

 

[Joey D]

People who say “I paid off my student loans, why can’t everyone else?” are always speaking from points of view that are at least twenty years out of date. They genuinely do not realize how much college tuition and the accompanying loans have increased since then.

Always? No, not at all. My wife just paid off her student loans in June and has this point of view. She graduated 5 years ago with over $20,000 worth of debt, and we sacrificed things in order to pay them back.

===

With regard to student loan forgiveness, I don't support it as something that should happen across the board. Did you take out a loan to get a degree in something like art history and can't find a job? Ya, you did that to yourself and if you didn't have a plan and/or a job prospect lined up, then it's on you. Did you take out a loan to become a nurse, teacher, or something else where it's easy to get a job that's needed for society? Then I think after a certain amount of time working in that field you could apply for loan forgiveness. We already do this to some degree too with the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program that will forgive your loans after 120 payments if you work in certain sectors.

Unfortunately, many people who choose to go to college do so without any sort of plan. On some level, it's kind of expected too since most 18-year-olds don't have any idea what they want to do but society says you need a degree in order to get a job. There's also a stigma around jobs that require you to work with your hands for some reason as being "low class". Working in manufacturing, repair, or any other vocational profession is fine and certainly pays the bills just as well as sitting in an office chair all day. I can't tell you how many times growing up I heard the phrase "get good grades so you aren't a garbage man". Now that I'm older and know how much people who drive trash trucks make I think the phrase was BS.

Basically, we need to quit forcing kids to go to college if they aren't the type of person who does well in that environment. This will cut down on people getting useless degrees and having more manageable loans or being able to get an adequate job where it's easier to pay back your loans. Schools also need to quit giving tenure to professors that don't do anything except collect a paycheck and do research. The number of classes I had that were pointless and a waste of money was far too high when I was in school and I can't imagine it's any different now. If people are paying, they need to get their money's worth.

 

[BloodRaven]

Anecdote isn't the singular of evidence, and the world has changed quite a bit in the last 15 years.

Oh, and it takes quite the person to use the 'I suffered so you should too' argument.

I never said I suffered. And I never said anyone else should suffer, too.

And you're correct in that the world has changed in the last 15 years; it's changed quite a bit. There are WAY more pussies now than there were then. An, no, I'm not talking about you, specifically.....just in general.

I see so many people that live their lives based on feelings rather than real-world things. As I said in my previous post, you have to play the hand your dealt, or the one you chose. The hand I chose was a bad hand. I know that, and I'm dealing with it. But I'm not crying about it and asking for someone else to pay my way or wailing about my feelings or any of that nonsense. If you screw up, then you should pay the price, PERIOD. Someone else shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes. And, yes, for a lot of people going to college is a mistake. It's not for everyone. But a lot of people do it as a way to get away from mom and dad. They look at as a freedom of sorts. Then, there's a knock at the door. It's the real world standing there with a bill for their tuition. Then they start crying about how college didn't really prepare them for this, blah, blah, blah..... Well, sweetheart, you're the one who enrolled in college. Nobody forced you to do it. Now, you have to pay the consequence. And that consequence is student loans.

So get a job, pay back the loans, and be a better person for it. Don't rely on other people to pick up your slack. Because I can guarantee you that once you get out in the world, it won't always be that way. There are some that will, but most won't. I know I won't. I hold people accountable for their actions. I don't care about your feelings. Feelings isn't what gets the job done. It's called being an adult. Take responsibility for your actions and deal with the consequences as they come. Don't rely on others to pick up your slack. And DEFINITELY don't rely on the government for anything.

 

[Danoff]

I never said I suffered. And I never said anyone else should suffer, too.

And you're correct in that the world has changed in the last 15 years; it's changed quite a bit. There are WAY more pussies now than there were then. An, no, I'm not talking about you, specifically.....just in general.

I see so many people that live their lives based on feelings rather than real-world things. As I said in my previous post, you have to play the hand your dealt, or the one you chose. The hand I chose was a bad hand. I know that, and I'm dealing with it. But I'm not crying about it and asking for someone else to pay my way or wailing about my feelings or any of that nonsense. If you screw up, then you should pay the price, PERIOD. Someone else shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes. And, yes, for a lot of people going to college is a mistake. It's not for everyone. But a lot of people do it as a way to get away from mom and dad. They look at as a freedom of sorts. Then, there's a knock at the door. It's the real world standing there with a bill for their tuition. Then they start crying about how college didn't really prepare them for this, blah, blah, blah..... Well, sweetheart, you're the one who enrolled in college. Nobody forced you to do it. Now, you have to pay the consequence. And that consequence is student loans.

So get a job, pay back the loans, and be a better person for it. Don't rely on other people to pick up your slack. Because I can guarantee you that once you get out in the world, it won't always be that way. There are some that will, but most won't. I know I won't.

Basically, your line of reasoning here is that it's good to be an asshole.

Look, I understand everything you're saying. I even agree with some part of it. I don't think it's my responsibility to pay for someone else's student loans. But your whole line of thinking is that because the world sucks, people shouldn't be kind. Gotta teach people to hate society and people as early as possible, show them that nobody cares about them as fast as we can. You made a bad decision? You deserve to suffer. Nice sentiment there, definitely you're a model citizen, ready to punish anyone who does something you don't like as fast as possible... and sprinkle in some "sweetheart" and other condescending nonsense while you're at it.

You also are completely missing the point. The point is whether society should pay for education, and if so, at what point in the education system to turn that off. That's the bigger picture. Right now, we pay for education up through high school, some people want that to go further. Wrestle with the reality of that instead of hiding behind the "pay the consequences" race to the bottom.

I hold people accountable for their actions. I don't care about your feelings. Feelings isn't what gets the job done. It's called being an adult. Take responsibility for your actions and deal with the consequences as they come.

I take it you're ready for us to finally lock up Donald "why are people so mean" Trump.

 

[McLaren]

I think there's a bit of a difference between, "Don't be a pUsSy, pay back your loans" & the simple fact that the cost of college with the current loan system in the US needs to be heavily addressed. Student forgiveness may not be the ideal scenario, but it's a start in some aspects.

 

[Scaff]

I never said I suffered. And I never said anyone else should suffer, too.

Oh but that's the clear implication in your post, 'I had to so you have to as well', you get onto the suffering in a minute.

And you're correct in that the world has changed in the last 15 years; it's changed quite a bit. There are WAY more pussies now than there were then. An, no, I'm not talking about you, specifically.....just in general.

I've not got a degree, and I have zero, absolutely 100% zero issues with paying my (considerable) taxes to fund anyone that wants to take a degree or engage in higher education (vocational, scholarly, or otherwise).

I grew up on a sink estate, with zero prospect of attending uni for a number of reasons, yet I would not for a second countenance anyone being unable to undertake higher education and do so without being saddled with impossible debt (for the capitalist in you, that's actually better for the economy as well).

As for defaulting to abuse, that says more than enough about your own insecurities rather than those of others.

I see so many people that live their lives based on feelings rather than real-world things.

Feelings are a real-world thing.

As I said in my previous post, you have to play the hand your dealt, or the one you chose. The hand I chose was a bad hand. I know that, and I'm dealing with it. But I'm not crying about it and asking for someone else to pay my way or wailing about my feelings or any of that nonsense.

Yet here you are crying about others potentially getting an opportunity to not have it play out in the same way, sounds a lot like you do what for them to suffer the same, regardless of your claim otherwise.

If you screw up, then you should pay the price, PERIOD. Someone else shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes. And, yes, for a lot of people going to college is a mistake. It's not for everyone. But a lot of people do it as a way to get away from mom and dad. They look at as a freedom of sorts. Then, there's a knock at the door. It's the real world standing there with a bill for their tuition. Then they start crying about how college didn't really prepare them for this, blah, blah, blah..... Well, sweetheart, you're the one who enrolled in college. Nobody forced you to do it. Now, you have to pay the consequence. And that consequence is student loans.

What was that about suffering again?

So get a job, pay back the loans, and be a better person for it.

You are aware that the vast majority of people getting loan forgiveness are trying to do just that? You seem seriously removed from the actual facts involved.

Don't rely on other people to pick up your slack. Because I can guarantee you that once you get out in the world, it won't always be that way.

Maybe it should be, a reason exists that the US falls so low down on every social and happiness measure around, and countries that operate on a socially inclusive basis outperform it on multiple measures.

There are some that will, but most won't. I know I won't. I hold people accountable for their actions. I don't care about your feelings. Feelings isn't what gets the job done. It's called being an adult. Take responsibility for your actions and deal with the consequences as they come. Don't rely on others to pick up your slack. And DEFINITELY don't rely on the government for anything.

You are aware that human beings are social animals? Your approach makes that a worse place to live, not a better one.

 

[Joey D]

I've not got a degree, and I have zero, absolutely 100% zero issues with paying my (considerable) taxes to fund anyone that wants to take a degree or engage in higher education (vocational, scholarly, or otherwise).

I'm curious what your thoughts are on paying for a degree that doesn't really provide any benefit to society as a whole. Being OK with using tax dollars to pay for someone to get a teaching or nursing degree is something I could understand (even if I might not fully agree), but being OK with someone getting a degree in philosophy or art history is harder for me to wrap my head around. Those types of degrees are so specialized that they don't really do much unless you want to teach the subject or you're brilliant to the point where you can make breakthroughs in those fields.

I only spent one semester going to university in the UK so I really don't know the ins and outs of it, so maybe that's not really even an issue there. In America though we have kids getting tens of thousands of dollars in debt to get a degree in something that has minimal, if any, job prospects. For example, a girl I went to school with got a degree in philosophy. The school I went to (Oakland University) isn't distinguished in that field by any means nor is there really a hot market for philosophers outside teaching it. She had zero interest in going on to get her doctorate and graduated with a BA and roughly $60,000 in debt. She ended up not being able to find a job and worked at a gymnastics center so she could pay bills and survive until she realized she needed something better. She then spent another large sum of money and obtained a marketing degree (no idea how much). Now she works for a health system doing their marketing, which is an OK job but I have to assume she had close to $100k in debt and there's no way she's making more than $70k a year (just knowing the market for that kind of job).

If my taxes were paying for someone to do something like that, I wouldn't exactly be too happy. However, if my taxes were paying for someone who couldn't afford school and was driven to become a nurse, I likely wouldn't be annoyed.

 

[Danoff]

I'm curious what your thoughts are on paying for a degree that doesn't really provide any benefit to society as a whole. Being OK with using tax dollars to pay for someone to get a teaching or nursing degree is something I could understand (even if I might not fully agree), but being OK with someone getting a degree in philosophy or art history is harder for me to wrap my head around. Those types of degrees are so specialized that they don't really do much unless you want to teach the subject or you're brilliant to the point where you can make breakthroughs in those fields.

I only spent one semester going to university in the UK so I really don't know the ins and outs of it, so maybe that's not really even an issue there. In America though we have kids getting tens of thousands of dollars in debt to get a degree in something that has minimal, if any, job prospects. For example, a girl I went to school with got a degree in philosophy. The school I went to (Oakland University) isn't distinguished in that field by any means nor is there really a hot market for philosophers outside teaching it. She had zero interest in going on to get her doctorate and graduated with a BA and roughly $60,000 in debt. She ended up not being able to find a job and worked at a gymnastics center so she could pay bills and survive until she realized she needed something better. She then spent another large sum of money and obtained a marketing degree (no idea how much). Now she works for a health system doing their marketing, which is an OK job but I have to assume she had close to $100k in debt and there's no way she's making more than $70k a year (just knowing the market for that kind of job).

If my taxes were paying for someone to do something like that, I wouldn't exactly be too happy. However, if my taxes were paying for someone who couldn't afford school and was driven to become a nurse, I likely wouldn't be annoyed.

What if we stopped thinking of universities or degrees being paid for by the government as a whole and instead looked at specific courses being funded? This is the first time this thought has occurred to me, so it could be a terrible one. Just thinking out loud.