Teachers with guns ?

[XS]

There were police officers posted in my school 24/7. You know what they did? They spent all their time chasing down kids who skipped class, off campus. What good is security when they don't do what they're supposed to? When I was in school four kids over four years were caught with a gun in school. Another kid pulled a gun on a counselor. There were routinely fights after school, often involving weapons. Indeed, our school was one of the most fortified - police officers, posted guards in the halls, unarmed hall monitors, many teachers had pepper spray, and it was all a big show. Those kids still brought guns to school. The counselor who had a gun pulled on him didn't use his pepper spray, he was too scared to reach for it. The police officers were never in the right place at the right time. Most ordinary people with a handgun are completely ineffective in a conflict situation. Even highly trained police officers are fairly inaccurate. Most people with basic gun training are the victims in an armed standoff. They simply cannot keep themselves calm enough to access their firearm in time and use it effectively to stop another attacker. This has been proven over and over again.

 

[Zenith]

There is literally so much evidence out there for confrontational relationships that result in fatal violence that you couldn't get to the bottom of all the police reports and stories. There is evidence. You are just trolling.

This is what we call dancing around the issue. You can't find any more evidence.

I already addressed Azureman. And you choose to look at a teacher with a gun in that situation in the best possible scenario only. What if a gunman threatens a classroom and the teacher fires, misses the gunman totally, but kills innocents? Then the gunman scurries away to kill a few more students before offing themselves. But that could NEVER happen?

You all are so black and white with this stuff.

And by the way I am a gun owner. In fact I went to a gun show last weekend.

We can discuss hypothetical events all day, but it's best if you have something that help prove your point. Can you find me cases where someone with a concealed carry permit hit an innocent bystander? A CCP holder held his fire at the Clackamas Mall Shooting so he wouldn't run the risk of hitting a bystander.

Even highly trained police officers are fairly inaccurate.

Police officers aren't highly trained. People with CCP permits hit bystanders less often than police officers.

Most people with basic gun training are the victims in an armed standoff. They simply cannot keep themselves calm enough to access their firearm in time and use it effectively to stop another attacker. This has been proven over and over again.

Examples? You say it's been proven over and over again. Seems like you should be able to provide piles of evidence to support this claim.

 

[hogger129]

I just heard some school board in Ohio voted 5-0 to allow custodial staff to carry firearms on school grounds.

 

[Nicksfix]

I just heard some school board in Ohio voted 5-0 to allow custodial staff to carry firearms on school grounds.

Montpelier School District ... Toledo, Ohio

Ohio is drawing attention with its plans to arm a handful of its non-teaching employees with handguns this year -- perhaps even janitors.

Full article

While this is nothing new, teachers have been carrying in Ohio for some time. Some just were not aware of it. (*ahem*cough*), where has that been said before ?

An Ohio teacher may be carrying a concealed weapon into a school at this moment. You just don’t know about it.
Although schools are generally considered “gun-free” zones, Ohio law says as long as they have a permit and are given a written authorization by their individual board of education, teachers, administrators and other school employees can carry a concealed weapon on school grounds.

according to the Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio schools have teachers who are carrying a concealed weapon into their schools.

Jim Irvine, president for the association, said in an email that he could not give out specifics about which schools and school employees are already taking advantage of this option to protect the armed teachers.
“I can tell you that I personally know of schools that had armed people long before the Sandy Hook killings. It has been working fine in Utah, Alabama, Texas, and even Ohio, for a long time. No known problems,” Irvine wrote.

Full article

I too know for certain of a local school district here in Ohio that is allowing teachers to carry .... no problems either.

 

[oopssorryy]

Living in Ohio, I have yet to personally hear anyone with an issue with our school staffers carrying.

 

[Pako]

I forgot to say, when we arm our teachers, we need to have a bright yellow sign at the entrance to the school saying, "Lethal force will be used to defend our Children."

 

[Zenith]

I forgot to say, when we arm our teachers, we need to have a bright yellow sign at the entrance to the school saying, "Lethal force will be used to defend our Children."

Too official.

"If you come in here with the intent to hurt children, you will be shot in your freaking face."

 

[JJSCHMITTY2000]

Too official.

"If you come in here with the intent to hurt children, you will be shot in your freaking face."

What about this?

"If you come in here and start shooting people, we will end you.

 

[Bye Ya]

This is what we call dancing around the issue. You can't find any more evidence.

No. You are wrong, and things aren't as you say, just because you say them. Since you aren't being serious, I'll reply by asking if you've ever seen the show COPS?

Police officers aren't highly trained. People with CCP permits hit bystanders less often than police officers.

Interesting.

 

[Zenith]

things aren't as you say, just because you say them.

This is why I have repeatedly asked you for evidence.

Just because you say that teachers will "just shoot" a student out of frustration, doesn't mean that that's the way things will be.

Since you aren't being serious, I'll reply by asking if you've ever seen the show COPS?

Why? Is there a case of a teacher deciding to murder a student?

 

[Solid Lifters]

There's no difference between a teacher properly trained with a firearm and a police officer. If a teacher poses the skill and knowledge to handle a concealed firearm safely, why not allow them that right? Makes NO sense to hinder that.

Works well in other countries and will work well here.

 

[Bye Ya]

 

[MarcoM]

There's no difference between a teacher properly trained with a firearm and a police officer. If a teacher poses the skill and knowledge to handle a concealed firearm safely, why not allow them that right? Makes NO sense to hinder that.

Works well in other countries and will work well here.

Teachers have already enough tasks.

It's like with everything that goes wrong with kids, just blame the teachers or give teachers more tasks

What other countries do you have in mind where this works well?

 

[Kent]

Actually one major difference between many police and teachers... College. Most teachers have actually completed a four year degree where as many police simply have not completed college. More often than I'd like to admit, police only have a few years of education in the criminal justice realm at their local community college (this of course is more often a problem than an asset as it teaches young police to interpret the law rather than enforce it).

At any rate, just saying... Education, pretty much all teachers have it, not so much for police.

And one more thing... thought of it because of that cartoon above...

If history has taught us anything, it's that we have no need to worry about governments disarming citizens. We all know that governments respect their people and would never consider taking advantage of the people.

I mean really?
Come on people, all the libs out there need to remember the Bush days when the government was the evil big brother.

 

[Zenith]

snip

Teachers with guns =/= armed guards.

That comic isn't relevant. It's also not evidence to support the claim you've been trying to make for this entire thread.

Teachers have already enough tasks.

It's like with everything that goes wrong with kids, just blame the teachers or give teachers more tasks

What other countries do you have in mind where this works well?

It's the teacher's choice if they want to carry a gun. Nobody is forcing them to take on new responsibilities. Have you even read the thread?

 

[MarcoM]

It's the teacher's choice if they want to carry a gun. Nobody is forcing them to take on new responsibilities. Have you even read the thread?

Yes, I have. The whole idea of teachers with guns is just too silly for words.

 

[Zenith]

Yes, I have. The whole idea of teachers with guns is just too silly for words.

Well your reply was irrelevant and you're still yet to justify your claim that people being able to defend themselves in their workplace is "too silly for words."

Being dismissive doesn't mask a poor argument.

 

[MarcoM]

Well your reply was irrelevant and you're still yet to justify your claim that people being able to defend themselves in their workplace is "too silly for words."

Being dismissive doesn't mask a poor argument.

I asked Solid Lifters about the countries. Quite relevant.

And if you consider my replies not relevant, then don't read them.

I do not need to justify anything. There is no right or wrong here. We ventilate opinions, nothing more.

I think people in the US with the right license are allowed to carry guns, that also applies to teachers. So what's the discussion here about?

I consider the many current explorations of the 2nd thingie a joke. Of course I think people have the right to defend themselves. But emphasizing on teachers carrying guns is a gliding scale with some pretty nasty events along the road.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think people in the US with the right license are allowed to carry guns, that also applies to teachers. So what's the discussion here about?

No, most teachers cannot carry at school. That is the debate. Should they be allowed to if they have the license to carry elsewhere?

No job requirement or responsibilities.

 

[Bye Ya]

Teachers with guns =/= armed guards.

That comic isn't relevant. It's also not evidence to support the claim you've been trying to make for this entire thread.

What claim have I been trying to make?


this should be good

 

[MarcoM]

No, most teachers cannot carry at school. That is the debate. Should they be allowed to if they have the license to carry elsewhere?

No job requirement or responsibilities.

IMO they should not be allowed to carry at school. I foresee to many things that can go wrong.

 

[Bye Ya]

IMO they should not be allowed to carry at school. I foresee to many things that can go wrong.

You clearly haven't read any of this thread. CCP owners are infallible.

 

[Tornado]

What claim have I been trying to make?


this should be good

Calling attention to the fact that you've danced around the issue of you making claims under the pretext that they are common sense and then refusing to explain further doesn't make those claims more valid, as an FYI.

 

[Azuremen]

What claim have I been trying to make?


this should be good

And you say I make troll-like comments?

 

[Zenith]

I asked Solid Lifters about the countries. Quite relevant.

And if you consider my replies not relevant, then don't read them.

I do not need to justify anything. There is no right or wrong here. We ventilate opinions, nothing more.

I thought you were joking when you made that post wondering why I would ask for supporting evidence in an opinions forum. I guess not.

Here's a good read.

https://theconversation.edu.au/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

I consider the many current explorations of the 2nd thingie a joke. Of course I think people have the right to defend themselves. But emphasizing on teachers carrying guns is a gliding scale with some pretty nasty events along the road.

Which is why I have been asking for evidence that these "nasty" events will be such a problem. So far I've gotten one story from Famine, none from people who are against teachers carrying guns.

What claim have I been trying to make?


this should be good

The one you make here.

How long will it be until a teacher gets pissed off enough at a student to just shoot them? I guarantee you that it would happen eventually, and possibly even a mass shooting by a teacher, somewhere down the road.

And here.

Police and soldiers kill unwarrantedly every year, and so will some teachers.

Was that good?

You clearly haven't read any of this thread. CCP owners are infallible.

Hm. Posting such an obvious straw-man doesn't add much credibility to your conjecture.

 

[Omnis]

No, most teachers cannot carry at school. That is the debate. Should they be allowed to if they have the license to carry elsewhere?

No job requirement or responsibilities.

If you concealed carry at a school, you can be arrested or expelled for merely printing. Basically, unless you're getting ****ed, you're ****ed.

 

[oopssorryy]

If history has taught us anything, it's that we have no need to worry about governments disarming citizens. We all know that governments respect their people and would never consider taking advantage of the people.

I mean really?
Come on people, all the libs out there need to remember the Bush days when the government was the evil big brother.

Perfectly said.

 

[FoolKiller]

IMO they should not be allowed to carry at school. I foresee to many things that can go wrong.

Such as? And what makes schools a special case for this that other places that allow concealed carry aren't?

 

[Bye Ya]

Calling attention to the fact that you've danced around the issue of you making claims under the pretext that they are common sense and then refusing to explain further doesn't make those claims more valid, as an FYI.

I'm aware. Doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time explaining common sense to adults though.

Hm. Posting such an obvious straw-man doesn't add much credibility to your conjecture.

Fancy.

 

[Azuremen]

I'm aware. Doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time explaining common sense to adults though.

You so called common sense isn't that common apparently, and you've not explained much of anything besides people get angry sometimes. Which is common sense. People generally don't get angry enough on a whim to murder someone which, from what I've read, was the point you were trying to make.

Now, instead of even trying to justify your stance, you just want to respond with "witty" comebacks and snide remarks. The irony of which is quite amazing, given your childish responses and attempts to bait people into "assuming" what your view is. Which isn't much different than how you act in most threads - state things and then claim they are common sense, with no real evidence or explanation beyond "because."