Tesla Model 3 General Discussion

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Danoff
I don't really want to do another lap around this one. Here's a link for your enjoyment: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-Tesla-Motors-major-innovations
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I don't think that contradicts anything I've been saying. In fact, I mentioned some of those myself :)
I don't see innovation the way you guys seem to see it. I'm an engineer by training, and I've done my share of innovating and implementing. The real work is in the idea to do it. That's the hard part. You can get a room full of engineers together and they won't come up with that one brilliant spark that makes everything happen. But once they have it, that room full of engineers can go implement the hell out of it. And you could ditch the entire room, and fill them with another room of engineers, and that room could go implement it. It's the idea to do it in the first place that is the hard part. Some of my greatest moments as an engineer were literal moments... just a few seconds of thought that pivoted an army of engineers to greater success.

What's wonderful about Tesla (and don't get me wrong, I don't own one, I'm not buying one, and I don't even know if the company will survive or even if it should), is that is has had so many of those sparks, whether with batteries, charging, software, autonomous driving, speed, or just quirky door handles.

"We could sell an EV for $100k" - you're crazy

That's the whole start of it really.
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I don't think that contradicts anything I've been saying either. As I put in the post you quoted, "offering such a car in the first place is the novel part, the car itself less so".

Though if you're bringing the price into it, I think that lowers the innovation factor somewhat, because selling technology at a high price is literally how the technology market works and has always worked. You cover the cost of complex tech by selling it to early adopters for an inflated price, and as the cost of the technology goes down so too does the price - and then everyone buys one.

I've said in the past on GTP that it's far harder to make a good, cheap car than it is a good, expensive one. You could make the argument that Nissan is the greater innovator for going against the grain trying to sell the Leaf to normal people for a normal price rather than targeting wealthy early adopters...

Like you I'm going to duck out of this for a while though. To reiterate my original point in this discussion, the Model 3 seems neat but I'll be more excited when someone comes out with a lightweight electric sports car rather than a 2-ton sedan.
 
homeforsummer
I'm really picky about interiors. Yet another reason I'd love to try the Model 3 is to see how I get along with it - I like the design more than I suspect I'd like some of the execution, and previous experience of a Model S suggests it'll look better than it actually feels, as Tesla hasn't quite worked out how to use materials to best effect yet.

One of my current favourite cabins is the BMW i3.


Whatever you think of the design (I like it, but I can understand why some would be weirded out by it) I've found it works incredibly well - logical choice of controls for their intended purpose, innovative transmission selector (fingertip-reach away behind the steering wheel, a bit like the control pods in old Citroens), and fantastic use of materials. Feels minimalist and airy without feeling empty, and expensive without being flashy - every so often you catch glimpses of the natural wood, or the CFRP chassis. The fibre dash is clever too - it's a material that could look really cheap and nasty, but the texture gives a nice contrast to the other materials. When I last drove one I went on a material hunt. There are a lot, but somehow everything works together:


If Tesla can strike that kind of balance - maintaining the minimalism but ensuring quality is up to scratch and maybe making some concession to ergonomic, physical controls for certain functions - then it could find itself well ahead of anyone else in the industry in that area.
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I'm quite certain I'll replace my Swift Sport with an i3. Love your pictures. The one of what I think is the fabric door card could pass as the Selfridge building in Birmingham!
 
Eunos_Cosmo
compares favorably.
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I haven't. It may be sportier, but it's not as space efficient, aerodynamically efficient, its drivetrain is not as efficient, it has less storage and people space, etc. It's just not as good at being a car, although it may be sportier and more fun to drive. And despite the lack of efficiency compared to the Model X, it still somehow is not able to put as much power to the ground. The Model X may be outrageously expensive but it's also a very unique product and feels like driving an alien space ship which is a premium experience that (apparently) plenty of people are willing to pay for.
 
Keef
I haven't.
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Cool.

It may be sportier, but it's not as space efficient, aerodynamically efficient, its drivetrain is not as efficient, it has less storage and people space, etc. It's just not as good at being a car, although it may be sportier and more fun to drive. And despite the lack of efficiency compared to the Model X, it still somehow is not able to put as much power to the ground. The Model X may be outrageously expensive but it's also a very unique product and feels like driving an alien space ship which is a premium experience that (apparently) plenty of people are willing to pay for.
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Its cheaper, a little quicker, and has similar if not better range than the base model Model X. It is also evidently more fun to drive, rides better, and is better quality than the Model S, all for less money. I also fail to see how one could call the Model X unique and the iPace not unique, unless there is a fixation with doors that open differently. If anything, the iPace looks even more futuristic/exotic...it certainly looks better to my eyes. That Jaguar produced something as good as the iPace on their first try should be commended. It is a genuine Tesla competitor, even if it gets a few less e-mpgs.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Its cheaper, a little quicker, and has similar if not better range than the base model Model X. It is also evidently more fun to drive, rides better, and is better quality than the Model S, all for less money. I also fail to see how one could call the Model X unique and the iPace not unique, unless there is a fixation with doors that open differently. If anything, the iPace looks even more futuristic/exotic...it certainly looks better to my eyes. That Jaguar produced something as good as the iPace on their first try should be commended. It is a genuine Tesla competitor, even if it gets a few less e-mpgs.
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Love it. This is what concerns me about Tesla actually. They've got a huge head start on the market, caught everyone with their pants down (though that should have been obvious for a long time). But these other companies really know how to build cars, they're very good at it. If they can catch up (which it seems Jaguar is on top of), Tesla could find itself kicked to the curb quickly. For now though, it looks like the i-pace is lacking one major feature, which is a decent autopilot.

i-pace looks sweet anyway.

 
Somebody mentioned that Tesla is a tech company first and foremost, and I totally agree with that. Most people studying them seem to think the same thing. They're still learning how to build cars. Fortunately for Tesla, we've known who to build cars for over a hundred years now. The future of the car is in tech.

Eunos_Cosmo
Its cheaper, a little quicker, and has similar if not better range than the base model Model X. It is also evidently more fun to drive, rides better, and is better quality than the Model S, all for less money.
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Where do you charge it when you've got a 1200 mile road trip to complete in two days with an overnight at a hotel that doesn't have electric car charging stations (And I've stayed at dozens of them this past year, none of which had any)?

Here's how you'd do it in a Model 3. No need to charge at a hotel - the car has planned your charging route for you.
 
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First company to make a camper that recharges on the go, wins.
I know drivers in Australia, use just about anything to tow with. I've seen a Mighty Boy, towing a small box trailer.

Friends of mine that go camping often and also show vehicles. No doubt, the EV has to be perfected first, but having something extra, that charges as you go, would be immense.
 
c172fccc
Looks like the Tesla Model 3 has some issues with cold weather.

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Whatever else you think of the model 3, those door handles are DUMB. Me, a mostly well-functioning adult human with immense experience with opening doors, struggled to gracefully use those door handles when I explored the model 3. Can you imagine trying to open them under any of the following conditions?

-With thick gloves on
-With small hands (like a child)
-With weak or painful joints
-With no hand
-With anything in your hand
-Without looking
-Without adequate light to see
-With any sort of motor-control disability
-With any sort of cognitive disability (yeah, passengers count too)

They are just wantonly, unnecessarily stupid, just like the doors on the Model X.
 
c172fccc
Looks like the Tesla Model 3 has some issues with cold weather.

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So pretty much the same problem every other car has when snow or ice melts, water flows into nooks and crannies, and refreezes.

Here in Ohio we get sleet and freezing rain all winter long so what you're showing here is not news to me. This effects every car equally, especially cars with frameless windows which never work right in freezing conditions.

Eunos_Cosmo
Whatever else you think of the model 3, those door handles are DUMB. Me, a mostly well-functioning adult human with immense experience with opening doors, struggled to gracefully use those door handles when I explored the model 3. Can you imagine trying to open them under any of the following conditions?

-With thick gloves on
-With small hands (like a child)
-With weak or painful joints
-With no hand
-With anything in your hand
-Without looking
-Without adequate light to see
-With any sort of motor-control disability
-With any sort of cognitive disability (yeah, passengers count too)

They are just wantonly, unnecessarily stupid, just like the doors on the Model X.
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-Show me a car where this isn't an issue
-Kids would probably think this is the coolest door handle ever
-Are people allowed to drive with conditions like that?
-Really dude?
-Set it on top the car like everybody else does
-Look
-Night time makes everything universally more difficult
-Seems like a situation where you shouldn't be in charge of opening doors regardless
-Seems you a situation where you *definitely* shouldn't be in charge of opening doors regardless

"Well, Tommy is a bit stupid and sometimes he flails and screams due to severe mental retardation, but he can handle himself. Hey Tommy, daddy left his phone in the car, can you go fetch it for me? It unlocks automatically."

I bet these door handles would be a rain pain in my ass if my arms had been lopped off in Vietnam too.

Maybe we should just stop putting doors on cars and hang ramps off the side so they're fully paraplegic accessible, how about that?

I can't wait til they improve their Autopilot system because currently the Model 3 is not very blind-driver friendly.

Can they install a toilet in the driver seat so I don't have to Crohn's in my pants on the way home from work?
 
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https://www.carscoops.com/2018/11/musk-reveals-model-3-production-issues-left-company-weeks-live/

In an interview with Axios, Tesla CEO Elon Musk confirmed problems with the Model 3 almost resulted in the death of the automaker. As he explained, Tesla was “bleeding money like crazy” and “if we didn’t solve these problems in a very short period of time, we would die.”

Musk went on to says the problems involving ramping up Model 3 production were “extremely difficult” to solve and the company only had “single digit” weeks to live. This put an incredible amount of pressure on Musk and he was working seven days a week and sleeping in the factory. The outspoken executive went on to describe this time as “very painful” as it hurt both his brain and his heart.
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Keef
Where do you charge it when you've got a 1200 mile road trip to complete in two days with an overnight at a hotel that doesn't have electric car charging stations (And I've stayed at dozens of them this past year, none of which had any)?
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If he answered this question, would you even care?
 
Tornado
If he answered this question, would you even care?
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I would care, because Tesla's fast-charging network is unique in the world of electric cars, an *enormous* selling point, and has performance surpassing the best of the shared tier chargers. If the competition can compete *logistically*, beyond the products themselves, it levels the playing field considerably.

I never got an answer on if they can compete logistically but after watching reviews on the new Hyundais, Bolt, Leaf, etc, and hearing their charging times, it seems like they can't.
 
R1600Turbo
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Still seems weird how serene it is. Usually track driving is such a visceral, noisy, and often physical thing, but electric power alone seems to chop all that in half even if you're still going very quickly. The linearity of the delivery helps I think too because you're never sending more or less power to the track than you want to, i.e. never working with the peaks and troughs of power and torque curves and how that's affected by gearing.

These kinda vids make me want to try a Model 3 even more. Gonna be a while yet before they appear in the UK, but I want to try and get out to the US in spring next year so perhaps I'll try and have a go then.
 
Was just watching this podcast on YouTube and they were going over Tesla sales. Thought this chart would be fun to share.

model3_sales.png
 
Apparently, this Model 3 was driving with Autopilot on. It slid on some ice and recovered by itself with no interference from the driver.

 
ProjectWHaT
Apparently, this Model 3 was driving with Autopilot on. It slid on some ice and recovered by itself with no interference from the driver.

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There is a huge section of that video cut out when it flashes red. Look at the distance the car covered during that time. What happened, and why did the car lose control, and why did the camera not capture it?
 
Keef
There is a huge section of that video cut out when it flashes red. Look at the distance the car covered during that time. What happened, and why did the car lose control, and why did the camera not capture it?
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Hmm that is odd. If the timestamp is correct, only about 0.33 seconds was lost.

Looking around online, it does seem like many people believe it is fake.

 


Appaling build quality as far as I'm concerned, especially considering its price. The paint looks like a 10-year old car that's only seen washes in an automated car wash. I'm not impressed at all.
 
R1600Turbo
I'd wonder how many of those paint issues are from transport.
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These issues seem quite excessive really, so the chances of it being caused by the transport are probably quite high. I don't know, how the law operates in the US in this case, but we have to check for scuffs and scratches as soon as the car leaves the truck and we're handed the keys and even have to write down, if the car is dirty or wet, so a proper inspection of the paint isn't possible here in Germany.
So, I don't know if he'd even be able to claim damages caused by the transporting company afterwards.
 
R1600Turbo
I'd wonder how many of those paint issues are from transport.
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None of the swirls are, I can agree with the scuffs, but the general swirls and spiderwebs in a brandnew paint like that in the video are completely unacceptable for a newly purchased car. I'd have it sent back immediately.
 
Bram Turismo
None of the swirls are, I can agree with the scuffs, but the general swirls and spiderwebs in a brandnew paint like that in the video are completely unacceptable for a newly purchased car. I'd have it sent back immediately.
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I'll assume you watched the whole video and saw the part at the end where he said that Tesla is taking care of it.
 

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