The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[prisonermonkeys]

Williams need to make some kind of splash. Kind of hard to believe the [once-proud] team has only scored 5 points all season.

Indeed - it's their worst season since 1978. Worse, even, since they only ran one car in 1978, driven by Alan Jones. They scored 11 points in 16 races with just one car; this year, they've got just 5 points in 13 races with two cars. In fact, it's probably Williams' worst season since the days of Frank Williams Racing Cars (in 1977, they ran a March with Patrick Nève on a limited campaign; 11 of 17 races). Even then, they had a better season in their first year - 1967, when they ran a Brabham BT26A for Piers Courage, who scored 16 points - than they are having now.

 

[Tired Tyres]

All that in a era that only gave points to the top six. Williams really would be in trouble if that still applied!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Okay, crazy idea:

If Raikkonen is serious about getting back into Formula 1, but wants a fast car, maybe he could go to Force India. They're currently 6th in the WCC, though they have got a fight on their hands; Sauber won't let the place go willingly, if they can help it. But Williams is currently only 9th, and faces an uphill battle to recover lost ground. If Adrian Sutil is in talks with Williams, Force India could cut him loose and scoop up Raikkonen. That way, Force India get a fast driver, and Williams get a committed one.

 

[Pupik]

Indeed - it's their worst season since 1978. Worse, even, since they only ran one car in 1978, driven by Alan Jones. They scored 11 points in 16 races with just one car; this year, they've got just 5 points in 13 races with two cars. In fact, it's probably Williams' worst season since the days of Frank Williams Racing Cars (in 1977, they ran a March with Patrick Nève on a limited campaign; 11 of 17 races). Even then, they had a better season in their first year - 1967, when they ran a Brabham BT26A for Piers Courage, who scored 16 points - than they are having now.

That '78 FW08 actually ran with the top six in most races that year; reliability plagued them (it used to be "normal" if even top teams finished only 75% of the races until about 15-20 years ago). Look at how well Williams did the following year when they nailed down the mechanical/electrical gremlins.

1969 was the year they ran the Brabham customer car, the truth of the matter was that they signed the contract under the pretext that they run it in Formula 5000 races. That's why Sir Frank was stuck with a dreadful car from Alejandro de Tomaso for 1970.

 

[Prince.M5]

Okay, crazy idea:

If Raikkonen is serious about getting back into Formula 1, but wants a fast car, maybe he could go to Force India. They're currently 6th in the WCC, though they have got a fight on their hands; Sauber won't let the place go willingly, if they can help it. But Williams is currently only 9th, and faces an uphill battle to recover lost ground. If Adrian Sutil is in talks with Williams, Force India could cut him loose and scoop up Raikkonen. That way, Force India get a fast driver, and Williams get a committed one.

Crazy but could well be a good one. Since Williams is in need of a lot of money, Sutil could always supply them more sponsors thus giving more money for Williams.

The only problem is how much will Force India needs to pay for Kimi? Considering Kimi hasn't been driving the F1 car for 2 years, I think he would struggle for a while but he's a world champion already.

In case if this is the reality, where would Barrichello go then?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

In case if this is the reality, where would Barrichello go then?

Retire. He has had a long succesful career but looks like he's begining to lose it, Maldonado is now outperforming him and Barrichello is becoming rather invisible, Williams also pay him €5 million a year so having Sutil a better driver at the moment who can pay would certainly help them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The only problem is how much will Force India needs to pay for Kimi?

Whoever takes Raikkonen won't be paying him his Ferrari retainer.

 

[Prince.M5]

Retire. He has had a long succesful career but looks like he's begining to lose it, Maldonado is now outperforming him and Barrichello is becoming rather invisible, Williams also pay him €5 million a year so having Sutil a better driver at the moment who can pay would certainly help them.

A shame though as I expect him to stay in Formula 1 at least until 2013, that would complete him a 20 odd years in Formula 1... Come to think again, it's for the good of motorsports too because there are so many young talents that missed their chance being in these cars because of the veterans still occupying the seats.

Whoever takes Raikkonen won't be paying him his Ferrari retainer.

I see...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I see...

I mean that Raikkonen won't be asking for the $50 million he was said to be getting at Ferrari because no-one in their right mind would pay that after two years off. He's more liekly to get a more-standard driver's fee.

 

[Prince.M5]

I mean that Raikkonen won't be asking for the $50 million he was said to be getting at Ferrari because no-one in their right mind would pay that after two years off. He's more liekly to get a more-standard driver's fee.

Even clearer mate, good explanation 👍 Danke!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The Sahara Group has bought a 42.5% stake in Force India, giving them an equal share in the team with Vijay Mallya (Michel Mol owns 10% of the team). They will now be known as Sahara Force India, and rumours persist that Mallya will eventually leave the team over the course of two years. As for Sahara, they are involved in all manner of Indian sports events and teams, most notably sponsoring the Indian cricket team. So they seem pretty safe.

 

[F1 fan]

Crazy but could well be a good one. Since Williams is in need of a lot of money, Sutil could always supply them more sponsors thus giving more money for Williams.

I seem to remember that Sutil's sponsorship is not exactly lucrative. Williams are in need of some serious cash.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I seem to remember that Sutil's sponsorship is not exactly lucrative. Williams are in need of some serious cash.

They have cash, Maldonado is bringing in a load of it, Sutil money would just be a bonus.

 

[F1 fan]

They have cash, Maldonado is bringing in a load of it, Sutil money would just be a bonus.

True, Maldonado does bring a lot of money, but Sutil doesn't. He brings very little, so his money will mean very little to Williams.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

True, Maldonado does bring a lot of money, but Sutil doesn't. He brings very little, so his money will mean very little to Williams.

The money might mean little but he brings some in instead of taking it out like Barrichello (who is looking for backing) as well as being a quick driver with a load of experience in F1, he has also been involved with Spyker going from a backmarker to the 5th quickest team, Williams would love that.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

True, Maldonado does bring a lot of money, but Sutil doesn't. He brings very little, so his money will mean very little to Williams.

There is nothing to stop his sponsor - Medion - from giving more money to Williams than they do to Force India.

 

[F1 fan]

There is nothing to stop his sponsor - Medion - from giving more money to Williams than they do to Force India.

True, but going by current form, they don't deserve any more. Force India have been on the rise, while Williams has been sinking. It"s unclear how much of Force India's rise has been up to Sutil, as Vijay Mallya has done a great job of making new hires and has made strides on the financial side too.

I'd wager that Fisi's performance at Spa in 2009 was used as a good bargaining chip for increasing sponsorship deals. Which has helped the team in 2010 and 2011.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I think Williams' driver pairing is less crucial for them than getting a decent engine partner back on board.

Maybe Sir Frank should write a nice letter to Jens Marquardt?

 

[F1 fan]

I think Williams' driver pairing is less crucial for them than getting a decent engine partner back on board.

Maybe Sir Frank should write a nice letter to Jens Marquardt?

Well they will be back with Renault, which isn't the fastest, but it is a good, drivable engine.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Reports in Autosport's digital edition and Greek journalist Dimitris Papadopoulo (also known as f1enigma) suggest that Force India will field Paul di Resta and Nico Hulkeneberg in 2012:

Autosport mag : Hulkenberg is set to be promoted to a race seat next year alongside Paul di Resta. Story from @eddstrawF1 at @AUTOSPORTdigi

Hulkenberg signed a 1y deal with Force even the parties dont want to comment http://bit.ly/plKqIh (http://motorsport-total.com)

The report says that the deal was done on Tuesday What a coincidence! I tweeted the news on Tuesday

German paper Der Spiegel has also picked up on the story, and they're suggesting Adrian Sutil will join Williams in the place of Rubens Barrichello.

So, no Raikkonen in 2012, then. I'm nonplussed.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Reports in Autosport's digital edition and Greek journalist Dimitris Papadopoulo (also known as f1enigma) suggest that Force India will field Paul di Resta and Nico Hulkeneberg in 2012:
German paper Der Spiegel has also picked up on the story, and they're suggesting Adrian Sutil will join Williams in the place of Rubens Barrichello.

So, no Raikkonen in 2012, then. I'm nonplussed.

Thanks for the updated PM, I guess this means Rubens will virtual race full time now instead, unless someone else picks him up.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can't really see anyone taking him at this point. It's a shame that his career will most likely come to an end so abruptly and so ingloriously, but I think a future in the politics of the sport beckons. I think he'd be an excellent choice to replace Jean Todt when Todt's term ends. He'd certainly be very easy for the tems to talk to.

 

[Prince.M5]

I'm of the same opinion here too... Shame that his career could end in a harsh way. I think it's time for the young drivers to fill in the seats and if Nico is coming to Force India next year becomes true, he will have a lot to show and impress everybody like how Paul has been doing so far this season.

I think he'd be an excellent choice to replace Jean Todt when Todt's term ends. He'd certainly be very easy for the tems to talk to.

That'd be a very good choice! I believe that since he's a driver like the rest of the grid, he should know what currently lacks in F1 and perhaps he could fix things. Like you said, it should be easy for drivers and teams to talk to him because, well everybody knows him there.

But if it's meant to be this is his last season, he may want to go to DTM and join what Coulthard and Ralf is currently doing rather than sitting unemployed - unless he decides to do so.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If Der Spiegel is to be believed, Sutil will take Barrichello's place. I wonder what made them pick Sutil over Raikkonen? I'm guessing Sutil has the more-recent experience, is familiar with Pirellis and DRS and fuel-heavy cars, is much more flexibile in terms of marketability than Raikkonen and Sutil already has sponsors - he has backing from German electronics manufacturer Medion; with the FW33 looking very spartan in terms of sponsors this year (and the VJM04 being very crowded), they may have been willing to contribute more money than they do to Force India.

 

[Ardius]

Problem for being FIA president is that you don't just rule over F1..you need to know something about rally, endurance, touring cars...all the rest of it.
I'm not sure Rubens really has the CV to get that job.

I'd prefer to see Rubens go racing sports cars or touring cars if he does finally pack in F1.

 

[astrosdude91]

I heard Sutil to Williams rumors early last week. Shame that Rubens'es career had to end so quietly. Perhaps it would've been better for him to end his career after 2009. Even 2010 would've been a better note to end on. Sutil is a good choice for Williams, he's a competent driver. I imagine Raikkonen still won't lower his asking price. Good to see the Hulk back in a race seat. In my opinion he was one of the more underrated drivers of 2010. It shows patience pays off.

I guess Rubens could go DTM or other GT series. Maybe he'll even show up stateside in NASCAR or Indycar (he's really good friends with Tony Kanaan). Who knows what the future might hold for Rubinho. Team owner maybe??

 

[F1 fan]

Reports in Autosport's digital edition and Greek journalist Dimitris Papadopoulo (also known as f1enigma) suggest that Force India will field Paul di Resta and Nico Hulkeneberg in 2012:
German paper Der Spiegel has also picked up on the story, and they're suggesting Adrian Sutil will join Williams in the place of Rubens Barrichello.

So, no Raikkonen in 2012, then. I'm nonplussed.

Hulkenberg and Di Resta would make a good driver pairing. In my opinion the best rookies from 2010 and 2011. Although Hulkenberg did face some tough competition from Petrov. On the topic of Sutil, doesn't he still have the legal case hanging over him? I'd imagine if something like that turned out to be malicious and not accidental, it would really lower his standing in the paddock.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The Finns are denying Der Spiegel's reports (though theu don't actually mention the paper) and claim that Raikkonen is training hard for a Formula 1 return and already has sponsors - in fact, the article seems to suggest that Raikkonen found those sponsors before he entered negotiations with Williams. And as far as I can tell, he's not in Spain for Rally Catalunya this weekend ..

 

[Sohvakettu]

Apparently Räikkönen's engine caught fire in Catalonia. Ilta-Sanomat (the finnish paper in question) quotes Auto Motor und Sport as it's source.

I will believe in Räikkönen's return when/if he returns, no earlier.

 

[The Outlaw]

Hmmm, with Kubica's return looking less and less likely for next year, I just wonder if Renault might be looking to attract another top driver to help improve their fortunes.

In regards to Kimi possibly getting this seat or a ride at Williams, I'll believe it when I see it