The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah, I couldn't remember when Irvine joined Ferrari. In fact, I don't remember much about Irvine at all.

 

[Ardius]

Unlapped against Senna, got punched, scored a few points, got a job at Ferrari, finished well away from Schumacher, nearly won the first WDC for Ferrari since 1979 and then faded from the limelight with Jaguar?
Irvine was a bit like Montoya in some respects, he was a character with some clear speed but never hooked it together consistently enough and just missed out on being WDC. And both have been somewhat forgotton with time.

 

[Peter.]

Teams can't take on a driver simply because he "is a future championship contender" on the inside, they need to prove more clearly that they are a future championship contender, and on of the things you have to do first is beat your teammate ,which he isn't doing. Teams will take their drivers because of how good they are doing right now, not how good they may do in the future, because, you can't predict the future.

Just look at Rosberg, he got his place now from actually showing that he is a future championship contender, by beating all of his teammates, putting the Williams in places it ought not be, and he was consistent in his successes as well. You're assuming that Paul is a future contender because he is running close to his more experienced teammate in his first season. If he were beating Adrian, i'd agree, but he's not. Sutil had some bad luck in qualifying for the first few races, so Paul is winning the qualifying race, but Adrian is clawing back that number as well. Sutil has 10 points more, and judging from the pace Sutil has recently had, Paul may not be clawing back that number for now. You also can't just say that a driver will do even better with more and more experience. Even that you can't be sure of. Nakajima for example, never got any better, now did he?

 

[F1 fan]

Nakajima never looked like much to begin with.

 

[Ardius]

Teams can't take on a driver simply because he "is a future championship contender" on the inside, they need to prove more clearly that they are a future championship contender, and on of the things you have to do first is beat your teammate ,which he isn't doing. Teams will take their drivers because of how good they are doing right now, not how good they may do in the future, because, you can't predict the future.

Just look at Rosberg, he got his place now from actually showing that he is a future championship contender, by beating all of his teammates, putting the Williams in places it ought not be, and he was consistent in his successes as well. You're assuming that Paul is a future contender because he is running close to his more experienced teammate in his first season. If he were beating Adrian, i'd agree, but he's not. Sutil had some bad luck in qualifying for the first few races, so Paul is winning the qualifying race, but Adrian is clawing back that number as well. Sutil has 10 points more, and judging from the pace Sutil has recently had, Paul may not be clawing back that number for now. You also can't just say that a driver will do even better with more and more experience. Even that you can't be sure of. Nakajima for example, never got any better, now did he?

But Nakajima never showned amazing promise either. He was only ever going to be average. Although saying that, Nakajima did have the odd good race, even in 2009, he did suffer some bad luck though.
Sutil has already had plenty of seasons to prove his championship-worthiness and I don't he has it, he just isn't consistent enough and he really needs to outright beat teammates. Beating Liuzzi isn't really much it has to be said, or at least 2009/2010 Liuzzi was pretty rubbish. Sutil only ever matched or slightly edged Fisichella and has so far only just beaten Di Resta. He isn't showing outright dominance over his teammates and he has had a lot of seasons to show that and develop.

Di Resta has potential to get better, Sutil has already had time enough to display where his talent is.

Rosberg is still unknown. I still have doubts whether he is championship material after so many "bubbling under" seasons. I was fine with blaming it on Williams being an average team..but now at Mercedes again it makes you wonder if he has anything more to give.
Rosberg's debut season was much like Di Restas actually too, except I'd consider Mark Webber a far stronger teammate than Adrian Sutil.

Teams will take their drivers because of how good they are doing right now, not how good they may do in the future, because, you can't predict the future.

Who says its about predicting the future? Its about taking into consideration more than just pure results. Di Resta isn't a million miles off Sutil and he is lacking in experience. Everyone expects a rookie to struggle in his first season, so its only common sense that if a rookie has a great first season, he must surely be better in future. Of course it won't always be the case, but why should any top team give Sutil a go? He hasn't shown that he is any better than merely good.

 

[Seismica]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93780

Seems Schumacher is again saying he will still be here next year, probably responding to rumours about Di Resta being lined up for a Mercedes seat.

But did anybody think, it could be Rosberg's seat at stake? It seems far-fetched considering how good a driver he is, but stranger things have happened in F1 before.

 

[Ardius]

It would be completely insane for Mercedes to drop Rosberg. Only if they suddenly had money troubles would they drop him..even then, I'm pretty sure they would drop Schumacher first as he is presumably quite expensive both in salary and front wing replacements .

I think the better question is; do we think Rosberg is ever going to get signed by a front-running team? It is far more likely that Rosberg's seat would be available due to Rosberg looking elsewhere for a better one, rather than Mercedes deciding to drop him.

 

[fps_christian]

Honestly, I don't see much teams changing their drivers in the next season, maybe the lower teams (i.e. HRT and Virgin) may change a driver, but I think it will look pretty much the same. Next year however, I expect to see a lot of change. Schumacher will probably retire and maybe Webber, Barrichello and Trulli follows. This will open seats for younger drivers and get back some new/"old" drivers. I expect Rosberg, Perez, Kobayashi and di Resta on the better teams.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Luiz Razia wants to race for Tony Fernandes in 2012. Maybe he knows something we don't, but they seem fairly happy with Heikki Kovalainen and Jarno Trulli for the time being. The only way I can see an opening in the team is if Trulli gets fired or if another team (Force India or Williams, maybe?) steals Heikki Kovalainen away. Even then, I'd be look at four other GP2 drivers (to start with) before Razia - Grosjean, van der Garde, Pic and Valsecchi - if I were Tony Fernandes.

Of more concern to me is the notion that Razia is trying to buy his way into a seat for the Brazilian Grand Prix because it's his home race. This, I think, sets a very poor standard. We know HRT are running Narain Karthikeyan for the Indian Grand Prix, and there's been the suggestion that Fernandes could put Karun Chandhok in the car for the same race (especially if Vijay Mallya doesn't want him). This is a very poor precedent, suggesting that any man and his dog can race, provided that they have a home Grand Prix - and another, better-qualified driver will miss out.

 

[Hollidog]

Webber Signs With Red Bull for 2012

Red Bull Racing is pleased to announce that Mark Webber’s contract has been extended for another year, meaning the Australian will continue to drive for the team in 2012.

Mark Webber said: “I want to continue racing at the top in Formula One so it’s no-brainer to remain at Red Bull Racing for another year. My motivation to achieve the best results possible both for myself and the team is still very high. Over the past five years, we have worked hard and proved that we can design and build a competitive and championship-winning car, and I’m looking forward to putting the car and myself on the limit again each and every race weekend in 2012.”

Christian Horner said: “When we sat down and started talking about 2012, it was immediately obvious that Mark and the team wanted to continue our successful relationship. This meant agreeing an extension for 2012 was very straightforward. Mark knows the team well, having been with us since 2007, and his motivation, fitness and commitment is as high as it has ever been. The pairing of Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel is a very strong one, they push each other hard and we are extremely happy the pairing will remain unchanged for a fourth season.”

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Webber Signs With Red Bull for 2012

Thanks for this...Red Bull owner said that they wanted to keep Mark and wouldn't want him to retire with anyone but RBR a month or two ago. This just helps justify that they were serious. Good research!👍

 

[Hollidog]

I had a feeling it was coming also.
Thanks, but not much research was involved, it came up on my Facebook.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I had a feeling it was coming also.
Thanks, but not much research was involved, it came up on my Facebook.

Oh well I don't go on Facebook anymore and I'm afraid my profile is collecting virutal dust as we speak. Here is another bit not sure if it has been said doubting it, but Vergne may get a reserve driver role down the road next year. I'm still hoping the American, Alexander Rossi will make it to the big leagues.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So, Romain Grosjean sealed the GP2 title overnight with third place in the feature race after Giedo van der Garde crashed out under the safety car. Renault are keen to get him into a car, but they're also a bit spoiled for choice at the moment. And even though Grosjean had the credentials, his last foray into Formula 1 didn't go so well.

I think a lot of where Grosjean races in 2012 depends on Robert Kubica. Vitaly Petrov is under contract for next year, and brings plenty of sponsors; what's more, the team haven't shown any dissatisfaction with him (though the pressure will be on now that Heidfeld is gone). His seat looks pretty safe. If Kubica can race in 2012, and maintain his pace, then it's a complete no-brainer - Kubica and Petrov will race for Renault.

If Kubica can't race, then a lot depends on what Bruno Senna does over the next few races. If his pace at Spa is legitimate, then Grosjean will be hard-pressed to make a case for a seat. Of course, there is a Nick Heidfeld-shaped spanner that could be thrown into the works - Heidfeld is trying to get back into the seat for Singapore, and it's very difficult to judge a driver on one or two races. But if Senna impresses, then I'm predicting Petrov and Senna at Renault in 2012.

This might be somewhat at odds with Renault's attempts to get Grosjean into Formula 1, but I don't think he's going to drive for Renault at all. At least not straight away. Jarno Trulli is coming up to retirement age (personally, I think he's well and truly past it), which is going to open up a vacancy at Team Fernandes. And after the bizarre stunt of putting Karun Chandhok into the T128 to "test new parts" and Trulli suddenly being full of praise for the new power steering system as soon as he got back in the car in Hungary (which I read as Tony Fernandes sending a message to Trulli - namely, "you're expendable" - and Trulli showing that he understood), I would not be surprised if Trulli is cut loose. Since Team Fernandes is a Renault customer team, I could see Renault inluecing them to take Grosjean in Trulli's place. It may actually be a good fit: a highly-rated young driver in a team attempting to break into the points (though I think most of their talk is just talk as they try to convince themselves they can do it). It will really give Grosjean a chance to show his worth, because the midfield is highly competitive.

 

[F1 fan]

That makes sense, however I think that Team Fernandes will at least pick up a few points next year. I see them being in the position that Williams are currently in. Really dreadful effort from Williams. I don't see them lasting more than a few more years unless they can really turn things around. If not, the only way the Williams name will stay in F1 will probably be if the team changes hands and the new owners keep the name.

This is all purely speculation of course and it's what I can see happening in a few years. Not necessarily as soon as 2012.

 

[Hollidog]

If the logic of where Grosjean will go is based on who is a customer of Renault then could we see him at Williams?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That makes sense, however I think that Team Fernandes will at least pick up a few points next year. I see them being in the position that Williams are currently in. Really dreadful effort from Williams. I don't see them lasting more than a few more years unless they can really turn things around. If not, the only way the Williams name will stay in F1 will probably be if the team changes hands and the new owners keep the name.

I think they can turn it around. The move to Cosworth was a mistake, and they kept Sam Michael on for far too long. What they really need to do it get over this "aggressive" business. Sam Michael's presentation of the FW33 suggested that some of the parts they developed were developed for the sake of being "aggressive" rather than because they actually made the car go faster. And I think that "aggressive" mantra was very much Michael's influence on the team.

If the logic of where Grosjean will go is based on who is a customer of Renault then could we see him at Williams?

Only if Rubens Barrichello retires. Williams are in a position where they need money, and plenty of it. Pastor Maldonado brings that money through PDVSA. Despite his idiocy last night, he has steadily been getting better over the course of the season (and his stupid little stunt was him acting in anger; it wasn't premeditated like Schumacher at Jerez in 1997). I don't think Williams would survive for long without Maldonado; not unless Grosjean could match or better him. Williams are pinning a lot on their technical shake-up next year, and they've clearly got a while to go before they're desperate.

 

[F1 fan]

However unlikely it is, it is possible that Williams would take Grosjean in exchange for free engines. That's why Nakajima was in the team in the first place. Having said that, in the Williams Toyota days, they had less engine choice (as engine manufactures could supply fewer teams) and the engine rules weren't quite as strict. Meaning more money was spent on Engines. It's clear that Maldonado is there to stay until someone can match his sponsorship money.

He isn't as bad as people make him out to be, but I think that despite his improvement, there are better out there. Hulkenberg for example. I will take back what I said about Williams, but it is looking very bleak and depressing.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Hulkenberg is probably worse than Maldonado. He might be faster on-track, but his refusal to find sponsors when Williams asked (because they needed them) reeks of a prima donna attitude.

Besides, I believe Williams have already paid Renault for the engines. The teams are, after all, working on their 2012 cars, and they need to build the car around the new engine.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And now it's time for the annual "Toro Rosso is being bought out" rumours. Once again, the buyers are said to be in the Middle East, a petrolum consortium known as IPIC. They're supposedly building a new team base somewhere in the UAE, probably near the Yas Marina circuit. This one does have a little bit of credibility, since one of IPIC's companies, Nova Chemicals, is one of Toro Rosso's sponsors. But since these rumours come up like clockwork (usually in August-September), I'm going to remain sceptical until something a little more substantial comes along.

Williams are also reportedly considering Adrian Sutil, Bruno Senna and Giedo van der Garde alongside Pastor Maldonado next year. Rubens Barrichello says he has talked to "other people" in case a contract renewal with Williams doesn't pan out, but he doesn't mention who those other people might be.

 

[m0rris]

Senna in a Williams....

It is a shame for Rubens but from what I've read, he doesn't bring enough to the table and Williams are about to lose another set of sponsors meaning they will have to settle for a pay driver with plenty of money.

As for Williams themselves, Parr is a **** of the highest order and the team itself has undergone a remarkable stagnation/decline. IMHO, Williams have very little time left if the 2012 car doesn't challenge the Force India - Mercedes spectrum of cars. It'll be very difficult to get sponsors when every year you going into the negotiations saying that you will "improve" this year.

m0rris

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And now it's time for the annual "Toro Rosso is being bought out" rumours.

Toro Rosso have commented. Unusually quickly, too. Looks like it's just a sponsor deal from Spanish petrol company Cepsa.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Trulli has re-signed with Fernandes.

 

[YellowG1]

Senna in a Williams....

It is a shame for Rubens but from what I've read, he doesn't bring enough to the table and Williams are about to lose another set of sponsors meaning they will have to settle for a pay driver with plenty of money.

As for Williams themselves, Parr is a **** of the highest order and the team itself has undergone a remarkable stagnation/decline. IMHO, Williams have very little time left if the 2012 car doesn't challenge the Force India - Mercedes spectrum of cars. It'll be very difficult to get sponsors when every year you going into the negotiations saying that you will "improve" this year.

m0rris

Williams' decline began more or less when Newey left, though they looked good for a bit when Montoya was there.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well Kubica has a mid october deadline to make it to the Renault and keep it...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Williams' decline began more or less when Newey left, though they looked good for a bit when Montoya was there.

The decline didn't really start until 2005, when Sam Michael was appointed technical director. They might have been on the downturn in the space between newey's departure and Michael's appointment, but once Michael had the reins, he just drove the team into the ground. I'm surprised Frank Williams kept him around as long as he did.

 

[fieldy96]

What about ricciardo in webbers seat 2013?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What about him?

If and when Webber leaves Red Bull, the team will take the best driver available to them, which may or may not be Daniel Ricciardo. For some reason, a lot of people seem to think Red Bull are limited to picking drivers from the Red Bull Young Driver Program - they are not. If Webber's seat is vacated and Red Bull see someone like Kamui Kobayashi on the market and they feel Kobayashi is the best fit for the team, they will take him. They're not obligated to take RBYDP drivers.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Kubica Deadline that I was talking about in my previous post.

What about him?

If and when Webber leaves Red Bull, the team will take the best driver available to them, which may or may not be Daniel Ricciardo. For some reason, a lot of people seem to think Red Bull are limited to picking drivers from the Red Bull Young Driver Program - they are not. If Webber's seat is vacated and Red Bull see someone like Kamui Kobayashi on the market and they feel Kobayashi is the best fit for the team, they will take him. They're not obligated to take RBYDP drivers.

I think it has more to do with people thinking that Ricciardo is the rightful heir to the seat due to the hype the media and red bull made about him. I agree Red Bull are going to hirer who ever the hell they please, but the hype that everyone makes about him always lead to the question of if he will actually be in the RBR or Toro Rosso.

 

[Peter.]

Ricciardo is one of the most over hyped drivers i've seen. Red Bull hype him up as the next big thing, and he seems to be in line to take the second seat at Red Bull for doing barely anything impressive, over the DJ or Buemi, who are both putting that Torro Rosso where it ought not be.