The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

@ Ardius I'm glad you gave the facts which it seems alot of people don't do these days when it comes to motorsports and I agree Trulli isn't that awful if we look at his form with toyota back in the day. He outperformed his team mates with 2005, 2007-2009 and has so far he has had two of the highest finishes with Lotus. So Trulli being the slow person is quite funny. Trulli is a good driver that like most just needs a great car to show how good he is. With Team Lotus doing much better I think next season or 2013 season will show that team lotus are here to stay.

 

[Mike Rotch]

I know they are part of their development program. Was just stating the facts. As for Massa, it's not 100% out of the question that they could farm him out to Sauber or buy him out of his contract.

I guess one has to ask, what would Ferrari gain at this point by pushing Massa out for Perez or Koby.

At the moment they have a solid driver, mostly bagging good points on a race weekend and a good supporter driver for Alonso.

Ferrari don't like having two number one drivers like McLaren are trying to do. Since the late 90's, their model is to have a WDC hope and a strong 2nd driver to support this. Perez could fit the bill, but no more then Massa is now. Koby could as well, but I dont think he'd thrive in that set up.

I like Koby and Perez at Sauber. But then again, I like Peter Sauber and they both bring in solid points regularly, so win win.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Renualt might ditch Heidfeld and or Petrov if they continue their unimpressive run and Kubica isnt back.

There has been talk that Renault might replace Heidfeld with Romain Grosjean before the end of the season if Grosjean maintains his run of good results in GP2 and Heidfeld fails to deliver. It's the most obvious way forward for the grand plan of getting Formula 1 back into France; a French driver, team and/or engine supplier increases the likelihood of the French Grand Prix being revived.

As for Petrov, the team appear to be very happy with him. He's managed to lift his game considerably this season, and he's frequently out-qualified and out-raced Nick Heidfeld. His problem is that the Renault R31 isn't as good compared to everyone else as it was at the beginning of the season. Petrov is funny in that he either has a very good weekend of a very average one, and it all depends on how things play out on Fridays. If he's strong in practice, he's usually strong in the race; likewise, if things don't go according to plan, he tends to go off-script come Sunday. He hasn't really had a race where he has successfully climbed up the grid the way Heidfeld did at Silverstone. But he's under contract for next season, and Renault like the way he has turned things around. So I think he's pretty safe for next season - especially if Kubica comes back and has to re-adjust. Petrov will be leading the team in 2012.

 

[F1 fan]

I guess one has to ask, what would Ferrari gain at this point by pushing Massa out for Perez or Koby.

At the moment they have a solid driver, mostly bagging good points on a race weekend and a good supporter driver for Alonso.

Ferrari don't like having two number one drivers like McLaren are trying to do. Since the late 90's, their model is to have a WDC hope and a strong 2nd driver to support this. Perez could fit the bill, but no more then Massa is now. Koby could as well, but I dont think he'd thrive in that set up.

I like Koby and Perez at Sauber. But then again, I like Peter Sauber and they both bring in solid points regularly, so win win.

They give someone else a chance to see if they can match Alonso closer than Massa. They gain constructors championship points and give one of the stars of the future a chance in a winning car. Then we get the privilege of seeing whether they can do a better job than Massa. I like Massa, but after 1 and a half seasons (almost) I'm willing to stick my neck out and say he is definitely not the same since his accident. This is the same guy who was pretty even with Raikkonen who I believe in his prime was as good as Alonso. This is also the same guy who was almost world champion and unofficially was for about 20 seconds.

I really like Massa and it pains me to say it, but he's not the same. Granted, he is closer than it looks. Ferrari haven't exactly been flattering him with their strategy choices. And he would have taken a deserved win at Hockenheim last year.

There has been talk that Renault might replace Heidfeld with Romain Grosjean before the end of the season if Grosjean maintains his run of good results in GP2 and Heidfeld fails to deliver. It's the most obvious way forward for the grand plan of getting Formula 1 back into France; a French driver, team and/or engine supplier increases the likelihood of the French Grand Prix being revived.

Difficult decision for Grosjean. He jumped at the chance of a mid-season F1 drive in 2009 and it did more harm than good. Would he really jump into that situation again?

 

[Jimlaad43]

All I hope, is that Heidfeld stays in F1 until he wins his first race.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Renault right now really want to push the French return idea, they want to return to a French GP and are pushing for it and really want a French driver in the racing seat. It's not like drivers from the recent past were kicked from their seats only to race f1 1-3 seasons. So I wouldn't be surprised if Petrov lost his driver and were to be replaced by the French driver. I say this because Boullier says Kubica is getting much better and may return next season or possibly the end of this season. We will see.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Renault could potentially lobby for a French driver to enter the sport with a customer team. Like Team Fernandes - Jarno Trulli's days are numbered, for instance. So too Rubens Barrichello; with Williams acquiring Renault engines for 2012 and the team seriously on the need for a rebound, the retirement of Barrichello could pave the way for Romain Grosjean to enter the sport. What better way to get sponsors than by fielding two GP2 champions?

Renault may not even need to replace one of their drivers with a French driver. Jules Bianchi is a part of Ferrari's young driver programme, and would be a prime candidate for one of the Sauber seats should it becmoe available (since Gutierrez is having a disappointing GP2 season). Likewise, Jean-Eric Vergne is one of Red Bull's rising stars and could wind up in a Toro Rosso soon - especially if Ricciardo gets called up to Toro Rosso in 2012 and then replaces Webber at Red Bull in 2013.

The mission to get the French Grand Prix back does not specifically call for a French driver to race for a French team. It does not even require a French driver or team at all. The taskforce simply believes that public and commercial support for a French Grand Prix will be easier to get with a French driver and/or team in the sport. If Romain Grosjean were to get called up to, say, Virgin, Renault would not mind.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I don't think we will see many driver changes going into 2012, especially not at the top. Going into 2013 though, I think that with new rules coming into play and a lot of drivers contracts ending then it would be the better time to restructure teams.

Mark Webber will get a 1 year extension, but I think only as Hamilton has 1 more year on his contract at McLaren. Button also has just the one year on his contract but will be at McLaren next year too. Alonso of course is very settled within Ferrari and has his long contract ahead. I feel that Ferrari are happy with Massa, it will be difficult drafting someone else in knowing they will be Alonso's wingman rather than equal status. Massa will be the one to leave Ferrari when he finally recognises he is number 2 but the anouncement will be in plenty of time for other teams to look into the possibility of hiring him.

Kubica will return to Renault, and I think Petrov has stepped up a mark this year and earnt a third year within the team. Mercedes seem happy, not sure about Nico but once again Schumacher has just the one year left to run on his contract to 2013. Sauber will do well to hang onto both of their drivers, but with no way up then I can see that happening. Possibility here for a Massa swap, and I think (like most people have stated) that it will be Perez heading to Ferrari. Toro Rosso will replace one of the 2 with Ricciardo, very even between the 2 though. Williams will keep Rubens, not sure about Maldonado though... a few good results but main input is money! Force India should move the Hulk up alongside Di Resta.

Finally to the last 3 teams, Lotus will be the most content with their pairing, but I feel Trulli is complaining too much for my liking... 100% reliability is bad for F1? Or is it just bad for Lotus if other people retiring are their only hope of moving up during races?... Virgin could look to those out of a seat with changes above, Sutil in is most likely. And Hispania will probably keep Liuzzi and anyone else with the budget (Yamamoto anyone )

 

[Jimlaad43]

Just a guess

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Hamilton, Button
Ferrari - Alonso, Kobayashi
Mercedes - Rosberg, Schumacher
Renault - Kubica, Petrov
Williams - Barrichello, Heidfeld
Force India - Di Resta, Sutil
Sauber - Massa, Perez
Toro Rosso - Buemi, Ricciardo
Lotus - Kovalainen, Maldonado
HRT - Liuzzi, Algersuari
Virgin - Glock, Senna

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Renault could potentially lobby for a French driver to enter the sport with a customer team. Like Team Fernandes - Jarno Trulli's days are numbered, for instance. So too Rubens Barrichello; with Williams acquiring Renault engines for 2012 and the team seriously on the need for a rebound, the retirement of Barrichello could pave the way for Romain Grosjean to enter the sport. What better way to get sponsors than by fielding two GP2 champions?

Renault may not even need to replace one of their drivers with a French driver. Jules Bianchi is a part of Ferrari's young driver programme, and would be a prime candidate for one of the Sauber seats should it becmoe available (since Gutierrez is having a disappointing GP2 season). Likewise, Jean-Eric Vergne is one of Red Bull's rising stars and could wind up in a Toro Rosso soon - especially if Ricciardo gets called up to Toro Rosso in 2012 and then replaces Webber at Red Bull in 2013.

The mission to get the French Grand Prix back does not specifically call for a French driver to race for a French team. It does not even require a French driver or team at all. The taskforce simply believes that public and commercial support for a French Grand Prix will be easier to get with a French driver and/or team in the sport. If Romain Grosjean were to get called up to, say, Virgin, Renault would not mind.

Well first off you basically repeated what I said and meant about the French return. Also the only reason Grosjean is looked at right now is he is the only French driver with enough experience to make this an easy/viable move for them. This is what I've read from articles. Also just curious but how is Team Lotus's days numbered? They've gained many new and bigger sponsors recently and being a Red Bull Development team, they will be receiving RBR Kers systems and are first of the newer teams to be getting this technology. I find it funny when a good group of people dont give teams the benefit of the doubt as if they're suppose to be as fast as the mid pack or top teams after a season and a half...It's as if some group started a new aerospace engineering company and is now expected to fight it with the best of them like Lockheed, Boeing, and BAE after a year and half as well. Really funny stuff

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Also the only reason Grosjean is looked at right now is he is the only French driver with enough experience to make this an easy/viable move for them.

You're forgetting Jules Bianchi.

Also just curious but how is Team Lotus's days numbered? They've gained many new and bigger sponsors recently and being a Red Bull Development team, they will be receiving RBR Kers systems and are first of the newer teams to be getting this technology.

I didn't say Team Fernandes' days are limited. I said Jarno Trulli's days are. He's getting close to the age where he will be retiring soon; halfway into the seasons, he can't get the Lotus T128 to work properly; and despite a reputation as one of the sport's best one-lap specialists, Heikki Kovalainen is consistently out-qualifying him.

 

[Moot]

But Trulli said he needed power steering from the Lotus, which has now only just been done, now we can see if he really is just slower, or that part really did hamper his driving.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Still doesn't change the fact that he's one of the oldest drivers on the grid.

 

[ZEROX]

Well, base on the news that i'd gather across the web.
It's just a speculation.
It won't be much of movement.

RBR
-Webber
-Vettel

Ferrari
-Alonso
-Perez

Mclaren
-Button
-Hamilton

Lotus Renault
-Kubica
-Petrov

Mercedes
-Schumacher
-Rosberg

Williams
-Barrichello
-Maldonado

Force India
-Sutil/Hulkunberg
-di Resta

Sauber
-Kobayashi
-Gutierrez

Torro Rosso
-Buemi
-Jaime

Team Lotus
-Heikki
-Chandok

HRT
-Ricciardo
-Liuzzi/Anypaydriver

Virgin
-Glock
-Anypaydriver

Though i would love Kobay move to more upperteam but i bet it won't happen any time soon. The only possible open slot for the top team are probably Mclaren. Either Button or Hamilton should move on, Kobay could fit in. That's the only better choice for him on not destroying his career earlier. Lotus Renault? Nah. It won't be challenge for a win next year. I bet.

 

[astrosdude91]

Ricciardo will almost certainly be in an STR seat next year. If he wants a successful career, then his venture into an HRT seat will only last half a season.

Not sure who will get the boot from Toro Rosso to make room for him though. At the moment Alguersuari is ahead in the points, but him and Buemi are so closely matched. I'd venture to say that they are the most evenly matched team-mates on the grid. It's a toss up really.

 

[Alex.]

Well, base on the news that i'd gather across the web...

Hey, Zerox, over here, remember me?

 

[Ardius]

Ricciardo will almost certainly be in an STR seat next year. If he wants a successful career, then his venture into an HRT seat will only last half a season.

Not sure who will get the boot from Toro Rosso to make room for him though. At the moment Alguersuari is ahead in the points, but him and Buemi are so closely matched. I'd venture to say that they are the most evenly matched team-mates on the grid. It's a toss up really.

Almost certainly? What if his HRT move goes badly and his Formula Renault performances suffer? It won't be a "certainty" then will it?

It could very easily all stay the same for next year, though Ricciardo is either in or out next year. I doubt we will see Red Bull fund another year of HRT seat time but then maybe they will.

Nothing is certain apart from Vettel's Red Bull contract.

 

[astrosdude91]

Almost certainly? What if his HRT move goes badly and his Formula Renault performances suffer? It won't be a "certainty" then will it?

That's why I said "almost certainly". Left room for error.

 

[Ardius]

I think thats more a "maybe", "almost certainly" suggests its pretty much going to happen. At this point in time, the signs are that STR/Red Bull are quite unsure who they want to keep. If they weren't unsure and Ricciardo was a certainty, why stick him in the Hispania and keep on both Buemi and Alguesuari?

Ricciardo is getting a lot chances here, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is going to get the seat. His world can come crushing in at any moment if he properly screws up his time at Hispania.

Then again, maybe Red Bull aren't looking to to see how well he does at Hispania are just sticking him in there to get used to F1 race weekends. But again, I'm pretty sure if they were/are going to hire him for 2012, they would have stuck him in the STR seat now just as they have with the past 3 or 4 STR drivers.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Any thoughts on who may be out of F1 next season?

Maybe Schumacher to retirement, again?

 

[F1 fan]

Any thoughts on who may be out of F1 next season?

Maybe Schumacher to retirement, again?

Heidfeld probably won't get another full time seat, so other than occasional, sporadic drives, he's out. However unlikely (even though it's not required) Trulli and Barrichello are maybe's. Likewise Schumacher is a maybe. That's about it really.

 

[FCB-Rizla-TML]

Would love to see vettel and hamilton on the same team. Not the biggest hamilton fan but having them both on level playing fields would end a lot of speculation about who is better

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're forgetting Jules Bianchi.

No I'm not, seeing as Romain has a working relationship with Renault and they [Renault] themselves have talked about him. Bianchi has a shot at a seat with Ferrari in the future and is a test driver and reserve for them already...so why would Ferrari let him go that easily? And why would Renault work that hard for Bianchi when Romain is there. As of right now in GP2 this season, none of us here can sit and say which driver is best due to the high inconsistent finishes by all top drivers right now. So why would Bianchi be less of a risk than Grosjean? Cause going off this season all top drivers (if you can call them that) seem as much of a risk to the next.

Oh and how about this name for you if they want to pick up a french driver Jean–Eric Vergne? I would see that as a good choice possibly for Renault GP.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

No I'm not, seeing as Romain has a working relationship with Renault and they [Renault] themselves have talked about him. Bianchi has a shot at a seat with Ferrari in the future and is a test driver and reserve for them already...so why would Ferrari let him go that easily? And why would Renault work that hard for Bianchi when Romain is there. As of right now in GP2 this season, none of us here can sit and say which driver is best due to the high inconsistent finishes by all top drivers right now. So why would Bianchi be less of a risk than Grosjean? Cause going off this season all top drivers (if you can call them that) seem as much of a risk to the next.

I never said anything about Bianchi going to Renault. I simply said that if the French want a French driver in the sport, Grosjean is not their only option. Bianchi could easily get called up to Formula 1 with Sauber, who have a good relationship with Ferrari. Of course, this would depend on Kobayashi and/or Perez getting promoted to another team (Gutierrez might be Sauber's reserve driver, but I think he needs another year in GP2 and I suspect this is Sauber's plan).

Oh and how about this name for you if they want to pick up a french driver Jean–Eric Vergne? I would see that as a good choice possibly for Renault GP.

He's a part of the Red Bull program. If Daniel Ricciardo gets a drive with Toro Rosso (or alternatively, fails to get a drive entirely), then I expect Vergne will be Toro Rosso's test driver in 2012 with a view to a race seat in 2013.

In fact, I very much doubt that Bianchi and/or Vergne could join Renault even if Renault wanted them to. They are part of driver development programs, and no doubt have exclusivity clauses in their current contracts. These clauses would give their respective teams - Ferrari and Red Bull - the right to make them the first offer to race. Renault would not be able to negotiate with them until such time as Bianchi and Vergne have rejected offers from those teams.

You seem to be misinterpreting my posts. I clearly said that the plan to get the French Grand Prix back does not demand a French driver in a French team (that's pretty much the mistake Alain Prost made when he established Prost GP). Indeed, it doesn't even require either of them - a French driver and/or a French team only make reviving the French Grand Prix easier. The only connection to Renault is Eric Boullier, who is on the taskforce to get the French Grand Prix back. If you read my post properly, you'd see that I spelt out a number of scenarios for a French driver to enter the sport (such as Grosjean going to a Renault-powered team, Bianchi joining Sauber, Vergne joining Toro Rosso). Romain Grosjean is not France's only hope.

 

[Peter.]

Oh and how about this name for you if they want to pick up a french driver Jean–Eric Vergne? I would see that as a good choice possibly for Renault GP.

Only person who will replace Heidfield is either Grosjean or Senna. Renault won't need a team leader anymore, Vitaly has matured enough to be able to take up that role and for them to sack Nick. I'm expecting Kubica to take a test driver role for next season to acclimatize himself again and get back up to physical and mental shape. He could step back in mid season, or he may just have to wait til 2013. Sooner the better though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I just had a crazy idea. I don't really know where else to put it, but this seems the best place. I was looking at the list of drivers who are close to retirement and wondering what would happen to them. Jarno Trulli owns vineyards in Italy and has said that's where he's most likely to go. Michael Schumacher would probably go back to doing whatever it was that he was doing when he retired the first time.

But what about Rubens Barrichello?

He's popular, and he's experienced, but he can't race forever. And then I realised that he's the current president of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association. He's well-versed in the political game. What if he were to retire from racing and join the FIA, replacing Jean Todt as President?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He's a part of the Red Bull program. If Daniel Ricciardo gets a drive with Toro Rosso (or alternatively, fails to get a drive entirely), then I expect Vergne will be Toro Rosso's test driver in 2012 with a view to a race seat in 2013.

In fact, I very much doubt that Bianchi and/or Vergne could join Renault even if Renault wanted them to. They are part of driver development programs, and no doubt have exclusivity clauses in their current contracts. These clauses would give their respective teams - Ferrari and Red Bull - the right to make them the first offer to race. Renault would not be able to negotiate with them until such time as Bianchi and Vergne have rejected offers from those teams.

You seem to be misinterpreting my posts. I clearly said that the plan to get the French Grand Prix back does not demand a French driver in a French team (that's pretty much the mistake Alain Prost made when he established Prost GP). Indeed, it doesn't even require either of them - a French driver and/or a French team only make reviving the French Grand Prix easier. The only connection to Renault is Eric Boullier, who is on the taskforce to get the French Grand Prix back. If you read my post properly, you'd see that I spelt out a number of scenarios for a French driver to enter the sport (such as Grosjean going to a Renault-powered team, Bianchi joining Sauber, Vergne joining Toro Rosso). Romain Grosjean is not France's only hope.

Where do I start...first off I'm not misinterpreting your post, I'm only validating my original post...

Renault right now really want to push the French return idea, they want to return to a French GP and are pushing for it and really want a French driver in the racing seat. It's not like drivers from the recent past were kicked from their seats only to race f1 1-3 seasons. So I wouldn't be surprised if Petrov lost his driver and were to be replaced by the French driver. I say this because Boullier says Kubica is getting much better and may return next season or possibly the end of this season. We will see.

the fact is Renualt's Eric Boullier is part of a team that was put together just recently by french Prime minister to put a French GP back in F1. Along with this they want a french driver as well, this idea is to give the French people something to cheer for if you will. I read your post clearly and am not arguing you really just trying to point out my post. Kubica is pretty much garunteed his seat if he comes back next year, with Heidfeld being removed from the seat as said by Boullier, but Kubica will not be driving any time this season in any GP. These are the facts and that was what I was saying the post I originally put up. Hence why I said Grosjean could be bought out by Renault GP if they wanted or any other french driver they see fit. Who cares a deal can be made it's not impossible if it was Ricciardo wouldn't have been lent to HRT a team that is struggling on the track and with money. From what I've read they'd really like them in a manufacture backed team from France which Renualt is...rather then in a team that utilizes a renault engine. I see either being a benefit but this is what has been said.

Either way these are just assumptions that are being backed by what is being said indirectly about the state of F1 in certain aspects. I'm not arguing you I'm just trying to prove to you what has been said on some of the big F1 and automotive sites is all. So I wouldn't take it personal

 

[F1 fan]

But what about Rubens Barrichello?

He's popular, and he's experienced, but he can't race forever. And then I realised that he's the current president of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association. He's well-versed in the political game. What if he were to retire from racing and join the FIA, replacing Jean Todt as President?

??? Where did this come from? Why would Jean Todt step down? Think this is sarcasm, but it's kind of out of character for you.

 

[Peter.]

I just had a crazy idea. I don't really know where else to put it, but this seems the best place. I was looking at the list of drivers who are close to retirement and wondering what would happen to them. Jarno Trulli owns vineyards in Italy and has said that's where he's most likely to go. Michael Schumacher would probably go back to doing whatever it was that he was doing when he retired the first time.

But what about Rubens Barrichello?

He's popular, and he's experienced, but he can't race forever. And then I realised that he's the current president of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association. He's well-versed in the political game. What if he were to retire from racing and join the FIA, replacing Jean Todt as President?

That'd be interesting. I'm sure a former driver would be able to do a better job at running the sport in terms of what the fans and drivers want to see.

About Schumacher, he was doing Moto GP, and not too bad at it either, up to his crash. But he could always just keep doing Mercedes commercials with Hakkinen. Besides, the money he was getting at Ferrari, which made him the 2nd highest paid athlete at the time to Tiger Woods, meant that he could've retired maybe about 7 years ago and be set for life.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

??? Where did this come from? Why would Jean Todt step down? Think this is sarcasm, but it's kind of out of character for you.

Because Todt has said he is only going to do one term as President before stepping down. I don't know how long one term is, but somebody has to replace him.

the fact is Renualt's Eric Boullier is part of a team that was put together just recently by french Prime minister to put a French GP back in F1. Along with this they want a french driver as well, this idea is to give the French people something to cheer for if you will.

But nowhere does it say that the French driver must be a part of the French team the way your posts directly imply. Eric Boullier is on the taskforce because he is both French and a team principal. There is nothing more to it than that.