The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[Northstar]

Ricciardo is one of the most over hyped drivers i've seen. Red Bull hype him up as the next big thing, and he seems to be in line to take the second seat at Red Bull for doing barely anything impressive, over the DJ or Buemi, who are both putting that Torro Rosso where it ought not be.

All you can tell by his time at HRT is that he can drive the car, it doesn't say anything about his performance. Look at Bruno, people were saying the same thing when he was at HRT, he managed to get himself 2 points in the Renault/Lotus though in his second race in the car.

I think Hamilton and Vettel have ruined things for other young drivers, both started competing for wins right away, not every driver can do that and it's unreasonable to expect it out of every rookie. Especially when that rookie is in a backmarker.

 

[Peter.]

I mean before he joined HRT, all you heard was Ricciardo being the next Vettel, and Red Bull looking to replace one of the STR drivers with him, but they really have no grounds to replace any of their drivers with him. Daniel isn't tearing up any of the feeder series, nor are the STR drivers doing bad. They have no proof that he'll be able to do any better than either of them are now.

It's been said before, Torro Rosso have terrible driver management. Unless your name is Sebastian Vettel and you win a race for them, your career isn't going anywhere if you're at Torro Rosso.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ricciardo is one of the most over hyped drivers i've seen. Red Bull hype him up as the next big thing, and he seems to be in line to take the second seat at Red Bull for doing barely anything impressive, over the DJ or Buemi, who are both putting that Torro Rosso where it ought not be.

No, it was the Australiean media who did it. If you've ever seen their coverage, they're heavily pro-Webber and pro-Ricciardo. I'm pretty sure they insinuated that Webber deliberately duffed the start at Spa to avoid being his by Senna and Alguersuari ...

 

[granturismite]

^ that is exactly the kind of thing that the Australian media does. I am so glad to hear international commentators, even of they are pro-british, because they are at least more neutral than the Australian commentary "team". Its funny that they hype Ricciado so much, but in reality, he is just another driver, not better than half the field. Yes, he is quick enough to be there, but I just don't see him setting the world on fire. At least he is "serving an apprenticeship" with a backmarker team to get some F1 experience first

 

[SkateNj]

Maybe Senna will become great when the v6 turbo re-enters service. Just like is uncle

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't think a new engine formula is going to significantly improve a driver's ability. And if it did, said improvement is not going to be genetic. Especially since Bruno is Ayrton's nephew, and not a direct descendant (the way Ayrton's son would be).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

According to Finnish network MTV3 (and a Romanian website), Raikkonen could be going to Williams:

Williams is preparing a surprise move for the 2012 F1 season. According to information revealed by Finnish television channel MTV3, former World Champion Kimi Raikkonen has visited the headquarters of the British team last week.

The information was confirmed by a team spokesman, who declined to give details about the visit. “It was a private visit, therefore we have no comment to make,” said a spokesman for the Williams team.

The international press has speculated for some time now that Williams is trying to find a replacement for veteran Rubens Barrichello and the name being circulated so far had been Adrian Sutil of Force India.

However Raikkonen, whose talent lead to a world title with Ferrari in 2007, would be a much better choice for Frank Williams’ team. The only uncertainty would be represented by the Finn’s high wage claims, but he could lure important sponsors to the team contributing to the former world champions relatively modest budget.

However, I wouldn't go reading too much into this just yet. "Raikkonen Returns!" rumours are like stories about Toro Rosso being up for sale - they come up at least once a year. But Raikkonen was excluded from the WRC standings when he failed to compete in Australia (private WRC entrants must compete in a minimum of seven European rallies and two flyaway events), so maybe he really has had enough of the WRC. And his NASCAR and Le Mans experiments seem to have come to nothing. So I could see the appeal in joining Williams and restoring them to their former glory; it would be a hell of a legacy to have to one's name. My concern is that Raikkonen might lose interest in Formula 1 if there isn’t an instant improvement – can you imagine him sticking around if Williams are constantly looking at, but never threatening the points positions?

I’ve already seen Raikkonen fans express outrage at this. Apparently they seem to think that after a two-year break, he can just step into a Red Bull (please). Others still seem to think that the FW33 can win championships; it just needs a driver like Raikkonen in it.

 

[Tesla]

Which brings up an interesting question that I've been wanted to ask: What happened to Williams? From what I've read they were pretty dominant in the mid '90s.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They went into decline when Adrian Newey left; a similar fate may await Red Bull unless they can find a new talent for designing cars (though Newey has said he will retire when he leaves Red Bull, so the team's loss will not be someone else's gain). Patrick Head was okay with his car designs because they picked up the odd win. But once Sam Michael was promoted to head designer in 2005, they just went into freefall. Michael peddled the "aggressive design philosophy" that we hear so much about at the start of the season, but have never truly seen. It almost became a party line within the team. And when we finally did see something that could be called aggressive - the FW33's tiny gearbox - it has done nothing for them. In fact 2011 is their worst season since 1978 (and back then they managed to score more points with one driver than they have this year with two!). Some of Michael's comments at the FW33 launch suggested that the tiny gearbox was designed to be innovative rather than designed to aid the car.

At the same time, Williams diversified. They designed the Formula 2 car, and they've branched out into other areas. They're working with Jaguar on their car range, and they've got a few other projects going, like a technology centre in Qatar.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I saw Interludes post on Kimi...and I looked at the top and was like "the lola f1 car that never was, screw the Kimi article I wanna read that !!!" however, thanks for showing us that Interludes

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I only showed the Autosport cover for impact. The Lola car in question is the car Lola designed for their 2010 grid entry.

 

[astrosdude91]

You think Autosport could have found a more flattering picture of Raikkonen. It looks like someone surprised him with a camera.

Ever since Raikkonen got out of F1, he's been exploring the world of motorsport. First it was Rallying, then he had those few off shot races in the NASCAR feeder series (Camping World Truck and Nationwide Series'), and a brief spell inside a Peugeot LMP car. I was thinking we might eventually see him show up at a Formula-D or Monster Jam event or two. But now it looks like he wants back into the limelight. Although, I seem to recall Kimi saying he wouldn't come back to F1 unless it was with a championship winning team. But seeing as Williams at the moment aren't exactly title contenders, he might be a bit desperate for another drive in F1.

But in any case, I'll wait until something is made official within the Kimi Kamp.

Though, if this does become reality, this would surely spell the end for Rubens Barichello's long and illustrious Formula One career.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I only showed the Autosport cover for impact. The Lola car in question is the car Lola designed for their 2010 grid entry.

I know that...geez learn to take a compliment

You think Autosport could have found a more flattering picture of Raikkonen. It looks like someone surprised him with a camera.

Ever since Raikkonen got out of F1, he's been exploring the world of motorsport. First it was Rallying, then he had those few off shot races in the NASCAR feeder series (Camping World Truck and Nationwide Series'), and a brief spell inside a Peugeot LMP car. I was thinking we might eventually see him show up at a Formula-D or Monster Jam event or two. But now it looks like he wants back into the limelight. Although, I seem to recall Kimi saying he wouldn't come back to F1 unless it was with a championship winning team. But seeing as Williams at the moment aren't exactly title contenders, he might be a bit desperate for another drive in F1.

But in any case, I'll wait until something is made official within the Kimi Kamp.

Though, if this does become reality, this would surely spell the end for Rubens Barichello's long and illustrious Formula One career.

*Pats astrosdude's back* Rubens off to a better place now...that big racing series called DTM. Or more recently the online sim racing series that he has been taking about as of late. I kid however, well not about the sim racing, he really has been talking about it and even got signed for next season.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Although, I seem to recall Kimi saying he wouldn't come back to F1 unless it was with a championship winning team.

He might have said it, but it's not an option. All of the championship-worthy teams are full. And even if there were openings, why would they want to take an untried and untested Kimi Raikkonen? You can't just have two years off and expect to come back like nothing changed.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It appears Raikkonen's visit might have had had more to do with the Jaguar C-X75 and a future in sportscar or endurance racing.

 

[Ardius]

Where does it say anything about sportscars or endurance racing in that article?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It doesn't. I extrapolated.

Reports first emerged in the Finnish press, with Räikkönen expected to have been viewing the Williams-built Jaguar C-X75 supercar as opposed to any F1-related talks.

Jaguar could be looking at entering GT1 or Le Mans with the C-X75.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It doesn't. I extrapolated.

Jaguar could be looking at entering GT1 or Le Mans with the C-X75.

Yes but what ardius seems to be saying and I would agree, that is a leap for you to make. Especially the final comment at the end that basically says they're still not sure why he was there at all and the team didn't release a comment on it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's a little bit more realistic than this.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's a little bit more realistic than this.

So you try to get rid of your negative with a more extreme negative...or are you just trying to get laughs? Either way it hasn't been confirmed and for all we know Kimi could have been attracted by the nice blue paint on the FW33 car and parts and that's why he was there. When more credible news hits I'll being then I think people can get behind it...but it is fun to speculate!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Read the article again. It makes it quite clear that Raikkonen is believed to have been at Grove to see the C-X75 and not talk Formula 1; indeed, it pours cold water on the idea of Raikkonen returning to Formula 1, even if Williams are not commenting on the visit. Given that Raikkonen has been experimenting with various forms of motorsports and recently conducted a test of the Peugeot 908, it's not a major stretch of the imagination to come to the conclusion that Jaguar want to return to Le Mans or enter GT racing with the C-X75, and that they're considering Raikkonen to lead the campaign. After all, the C-X75 is expected to go into production in 2013. Williams and Jaguar would spend 2012 developing the car, and racing in 2013.

Why do you not see this? Or are you fixated on the idea of Raikkonen returning to Formula 1 and thus deny any evidence to the contrary?

 

[Ardius]

I have not seen any suggestion that Jaguar wishes to return to Le Mans with their Williams-built supercar. I also do not see much of a link with Raikkonen.

As far as I know, Jaguar is looking at perhaps LMP1 if not GT. And the GT would presumably be with the new CX-16 rather than this supercar. But I guess either are likely. Point is, no one knows much about Jaguar's intentions with Le Mans at all yet and whether Williams are or are not involved.

It would be nice if people clearly state what is from an article and what is their own opinion.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Read the article again. It makes it quite clear that Raikkonen is believed to have been at Grove to see the C-X75 and not talk Formula 1; indeed, it pours cold water on the idea of Raikkonen returning to Formula 1, even if Williams are not commenting on the visit. Given that Raikkonen has been experimenting with various forms of motorsports and recently conducted a test of the Peugeot 908, it's not a major stretch of the imagination to come to the conclusion that Jaguar want to return to Le Mans or enter GT racing with the C-X75, and that they're considering Raikkonen to lead the campaign. After all, the C-X75 is expected to go into production in 2013. Williams and Jaguar would spend 2012 developing the car, and racing in 2013.

Why do you not see this? Or are you fixated on the idea of Raikkonen returning to Formula 1 and thus deny any evidence to the contrary?

No one is fixated on him going back to F1, I really couldn't care less PM (finally realized that you were that person from F1Fanatic) I mean if he became a bob sled racer I doubt too many would care. F1 has done just fine with out Kimi there. As ardius has said and me too...it is not there, your trying to split hairs and find evidence for something that isn't there. It is speculation so quit trying to get people behind you, if you don't have the evidence to show us then why should we believe you. The burden of proof falls on you for the claim you're trying to make. Hence why my previous comment said it is always fun to speculate...which is what you're doing.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I never claimed otherwise. Hence my use of the word "could".

PS - took you long enough.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Continuing the discussion from the duplicate thread.

i dont, hes been out for years but to make a possible comeback to Williams and bring $$ and big name sponsorship i think it can challenge him and the team and it would be very interesting to try and bring back the team from where it is now.

Raikkonen has no existing sponsors.

 

[astrosdude91]

Actually Kimi has sponsorship from Red Bull, but they kinda already have a team... Or two... And they sponsor a third if you want to count HRT.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Actually Kimi has sponsorship from Red Bull, but they kinda already have a team.

Look at all those Red Bull logos!

Raikkonen had Red Bull sponsorship. The idea was to attach themselves to someone as well-known as Raikkonen and increase their exposure in the WRC. But they did not renew it for 2011. A lot of people seemed to think that Raikkonen's Red Bull sponsorship was Red Bull staking their claim to him when he returned to Formula 1 at the start of this year - but it never happened. Most of it was a fantasy constructed by the most devout of Raikkonen's fans. He had Red Bull sponsorship, but it was only for the WRC.

 

[astrosdude91]

Oh my mistake, I thought he still had Red Bull money.

But he does have a key sponsorship in Perky Jerky.

 

[YellowG1]

Williams need to make some kind of splash. Kind of hard to believe the [once-proud] team has only scored 5 points all season.

 

[corporatesteve]

To be honest with you,

I believe Kimi will come back into f1 with the Williams team.

If you haven't noticed already they are shaking up the williams department and they are receiving new capital for the 2012.

I think its only a matter of what contract can be signed with Kimi.