The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[Dotini]

I'm not sure, but I think serving the minimum time for 3rd degree murder concurrently with manslaughter, given time off for good behavior, a person could conceivably be walking the streets again in as few as two years. He would serving his term in some type of protective "country club" prison to ensure his safety from the general population. Possibly. Or he could be put in solitary for his protection. I wouldn't doubt that he already has gang connections in prison.

 

[Joey D]

Motive and intent are required for a first degree murder change, to the best of my knowledge. I believe there was motive and intent.

For first-degree murder, there needs to be premeditation which you could never prove in this instance. Chauvin didn't know he'd be called to the scene that involved Floyd, and even if he did, you'd need some serious evidence to convince a jury of that.

Third-degree is the easiest murder charge to make stick.

 

[Dotini]

For first-degree murder, there needs to be premeditation which you could never prove in this instance. Chauvin didn't know he'd be called to the scene that involved Floyd, and even if he did, you'd need some serious evidence to convince a jury of that.

Third-degree is the easiest murder charge to make stick.

I'll say Chauvin had a longstanding animus toward Floyd. Loathing and violence have already been established. When he recognized his old enemy on the sidewalk, with 3 cops as backup, Chauvin actualized his premeditation to take advantage in this fortuitous situation to his extreme benefit.

 

[Northstar]

I'll say Chauvin had a longstanding animus toward Floyd. Loathing and violence have already been established. When he recognized his old enemy on the sidewalk, with 3 cops as backup, Chauvin actualized his premeditation to take advantage in this fortuitous situation to his extreme benefit.

The problem is you have to actually prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Charging based on what may have happened is what got Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman off.

 

[Dotini]

The problem is you have to actually prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Charging based on what may have happened is what got Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman off.

Trial probably won't be until next year. Plenty of time to gather evidence and prepare a bulletproof case. What reputable lawyer would represent him? What self-respecting jury would fail to convict him? This could be the most notorious slam dunk ever seen. We should know in weeks if they have additional evidence and charges to consider.

 

[UKMikey]

Is it the case in the US that second degree murder doesn't mean "I meant to kill him" but "I killed him by accident but didn't care whether he lived or died" and that some states don't recognise it as a charge? If so and if first or third are the only options then I can see now why the prosecutors have opted for non premeditated.

 

[ryzno]

Seems Atlanta KINDA survived the weekend...
I liked the address the Mayor gave and Killer Mike's address to Atlanta. I would post it but someone already posted it.
I've been doing everything to keep from having to go into the city for anything especially at night.

I did have an interesting time last night. Had a blowout, I don't keep tools in my Honda so I had to drive 30 miles both ways to get my jack and breaker bar. Thankfully my girl had her car too, we were coming back from a car meet...
By the time we got back to near where the Honda was Alpharetta police had shut down all 3 exits on 400 near it cause of the curfew. So I had to drive down to exit 8 and back up to 11... Then after finally getting there and changing it I had a police officer follow me till I left Alpharetta, I had to have my hazard lights on and drive slow cause the spare wasn't exactly full... I thought the whole time he(or she) was gonna pull me over and ask what I was doing.
Thankfully they just left me alone. Didn't get home till almost 2am...
Y'all be safe out there.

 

[Dave A]

Trial probably won't be until next year. Plenty of time to gather evidence and prepare a bulletproof case. What reputable lawyer would represent him? What self-respecting jury would fail to convict him? This could be the most notorious slam dunk ever seen. We should know in weeks if they have additional evidence and charges to consider.

Doesn't this whole ongoing protest/riot situation present a problem though, the jury need to be unbiased.

All of these protests will make it very difficuly for an unbiased jury to be found IMO. I would think it greatly increases the risk of juror bias and the scope of opportunity for pre-emptory challenges by the defence when the case does go to trial.

On the other point, it can be a major mistake to aim too high where the evidence isn't as strong. However, we have to trust the prosecution will know what to do when they see the evidence. They also need to consider the position of power the cop abused with his thuggish behaviour. If he gets found guiltiy (which he should) I could easilly see him being made an example of.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I'm totally amazed by how much traction this has got. The controversy surrounding Armaud Arbery's murder was that the killers evaded justice for over two months, even with video footage of the incident, and that got hardly any attention outside the US. With Rodney King the riots didn't start until the cops were acquitted more than a year after the beating took place. Derek Chauvin has been arrested, no one is taking his side, and not only are there riots taking place across the entire nation, but there are marches and protest in numerous other countries and endless posts of solidarity on social media, which are becoming increasingly aggressive in their compulsions for everyone else to do the same. Social distancing has gone down the drain too, in a couple of weeks we can expect another big spike in COVID-19 cases after all this has settled down.

I think to be honest this is the first major distraction the world has had since the pandemic started, so it's either talk about this or talk about the virus.

You got the wrong view on all of this.
Something unfair happened, and it is not the first of its kind. It's is more sad that there have been many more unfairness up until now.

The confinement and this situation has everyone extremely frustrated.

It is totally understandable why people get out to protest.

Even during pandemic time, this topic CANNOT be further delayed. If no one protested, no change will occur.
I don't condone the violence and the looting, but I am glad and very happy to see protests everywhere.

Keep in mind that not every protester is a real protester, there are opportunists who will use that advantage to destroy and steal...

Keep in mind that not every non-protester is a real non-protester. For example: I don't go out to protest together with my fellow men and women wanting for peace and fairness, but it doesn't mean I am against peace and fairness by staying home. I am no longer single and going out right now is putting my family at risk.

Why would you even question that nobody is siding the cop? We have clear evidence he contributed the Floyd's death.

The cop had only one job to do, protect and serve...
Did he do that? No! Violence doesn't get anywhere!

Kareem Abdul Jabbard best explain this situation: everyone is pushed to the edge, because the unfairness has NOT changed.

"Let's not rush to judgement, but let's rush to justice".

It'll be very handy in proving motive and intent. It was much more than an acquaintance according to what I heard, it was a real animosity.

Your 2nd question is harder to answer without more global knowledge. I'm 100% certain there was domestic organization behind the violence.

Keep in mind that not every protester is a real protester, there are opportunists who will use that advantage to destroy and steal...

Keep in mind that not every non-protester is a real non-protester. For example: I don't go out to protest together with my fellow men and women wanting for peace and fairness, but it doesn't mean I am against peace and fairness by staying home. I am no longer single and going out right now is putting my family at risk.

Seems Atlanta KINDA survived the weekend...
I liked the address the Mayor gave and Killer Mike's address to Atlanta. I would post it but someone already posted it.
I've been doing everything to keep from having to go into the city for anything especially at night.

I did have an interesting time last night. Had a blowout, I don't keep tools in my Honda so I had to drive 30 miles both ways to get my jack and breaker bar. Thankfully my girl had her car too, we were coming back from a car meet...
By the time we got back to near where the Honda was Alpharetta police had shut down all 3 exits on 400 near it cause of the curfew. So I had to drive down to exit 8 and back up to 11... Then after finally getting there and changing it I had a police officer follow me till I left Alpharetta, I had to have my hazard lights on and drive slow cause the spare wasn't exactly full... I thought the whole time he(or she) was gonna pull me over and ask what I was doing.
Thankfully they just left me alone. Didn't get home till almost 2am...
Y'all be safe out there.

Living on the edge huh... Man glad you made home safely.

 

[Joey D]

I'll say Chauvin had a longstanding animus toward Floyd. Loathing and violence have already been established. When he recognized his old enemy on the sidewalk, with 3 cops as backup, Chauvin actualized his premeditation to take advantage in this fortuitous situation to his extreme benefit.

That's not first-degree murder, that describes second-degree murder at best or, more realistically, voluntary manslaughter since what you're describing is a crime of passion.

Trial probably won't be until next year. Plenty of time to gather evidence and prepare a bulletproof case. What reputable lawyer would represent him? What self-respecting jury would fail to convict him? This could be the most notorious slam dunk ever seen. We should know in weeks if they have additional evidence and charges to consider.

A lawyer doesn't have to agree with what someone did to represent them. If the case is truly open and shut, the lawyer is there to ensure the defendant's rights are adhered to and that nothing comes up that could invalidate the trial. I also think you're vastly underestimating how many people think Chauvin was in the right or, at the very least, didn't do anything wrong. Lawyer represent far worse people every day.

All of these protests will make it very difficuly for an unbiased jury to be found IMO.

Several high profile cases often have lengthy jury selections, but they can be found. There are enough people out there that either can put their preconceived notions aside or simply don't know what happened in full. My guess is, they'll do a change of venue though, or a request for a change of venue will be filed. Chauvin would probably get a fairer trial in another city.

 

[F1GTR]

Here's a useful summary of what happened (multiple angles/dispatch calls):

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-investigation.html

For some reason George Floyd gets pulled out of the car by Chauvin and put into the position we've all seen in the videos.

I understand why people are on the streets protesting at the moment. What has been happening to the black community is sickening, and the UK isn't much better either.

 

[PeterJB]

What Chauvin did is inexcusable and it's as if some of those with a badge are looking not to neutralize, but also eliminate threats.

You got the wrong view on all of this.
Something unfair happened, and it is not the first of its kind. It's is more sad that there have been many more unfairness up until now.

The confinement and this situation has everyone extremely frustrated.

It is totally understandable why people get out to protest.

Even during pandemic time, this topic CANNOT be further delayed. If no one protested, no change will occur.
I don't condone the violence and the looting, but I am glad and very happy to see protests everywhere.

Keep in mind that not every protester is a real protester, there are opportunists who will use that advantage to destroy and steal...

Keep in mind that not every non-protester is a real non-protester. For example: I don't go out to protest together with my fellow men and women wanting for peace and fairness, but it doesn't mean I am against peace and fairness by staying home. I am no longer single and going out right now is putting my family at risk.

Why would you even question that nobody is siding the cop? We have clear evidence he contributed the Floyd's death.

Kareem Abdul Jabbard best explain this situation: everyone is pushed to the edge, because the unfairness has NOT changed.

"Let's not rush to judgement, but let's rush to justice".

Sorry, bad wording on my part. Should've read "Chauvin has been arrested and is not receiving any mainstream support, and rightfully so".

I understand why people would be outraged by the entire situation, but the global response just feels way out of proportion.

 

[Submerged]

It'll be very handy in proving motive and intent. It was much more than an acquaintance according to what I heard, it was a real animosity.

Your 2nd question is harder to answer without more global knowledge. I'm 100% certain there was domestic organization behind the violence.

Would be interested to read this 'animosity' that occured between them.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Sorry, bad wording on my part. Should've read "Chauvin has been arrested and is not receiving any mainstream support, and rightfully so".

I understand why people would be outraged by the entire situation, but the global response just feels way out of proportion.

Ok cool, thanks for the clarification.

The responses are on point.
The looters are the ones making it way worse..

Looters are the one who spoil it for us all.
Let's make it clear that looters are NOT protesters, and should be held accountable for their actions.

The protests will go until all branch of the government is committed to propose clear actions to prevent these sort of situation from happening.

I propose that every cop arrest comes with an introduction like this one:
Let's Make a Deal!

And there are prizes always, no matter what the outcome is.

This definitely would make it a more pleasant experience.

Police = serve and protect.

 

[UKMikey]

Here's a useful summary of what happened (multiple angles/dispatch calls):

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-investigation.html

Thank you for the informative and comprehensive link.

Would be interested to read this 'animosity' that occured between them.

Looking at this link I'm not sure whether they even knew each other. Hopefully the trial will clear up whether or not this is the case.

https://kstp.com/news/george-floyd-...t-south-minneapolis-club-may-28-2020/5743990/

Police = serve and protect

What did you think of Chris Swanson's response?

 

[CTznOfTime]

Thank you for the informative and comprehensive link.

Looking at this link I'm not sure whether they even knew each other. Hopefully the trial will clear up whether or not this is the case.

https://kstp.com/news/george-floyd-...t-south-minneapolis-club-may-28-2020/5743990/



What did you think of Chris Swanson's response?

We need everyone from all sides and corner to be like this... To be good decent humans first and foremost.
No skin tones involved.

One Chris Swanson's is not enough.
We need all Chauvin to turn into Swansons.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I wonder if American police are so uniquely predispositioned to use force (hesitant to say excessive, but it certainly appears that happens often) because American citizens are far more likely to be armed than citizens of basically any other country (Switzerland is a weird, non-comparable case because of the pseudo-professional nature of bearing arms there). So you get cops that are prepared for a firefight, in their minds, with every criminal encounter, no matter how benign the original offense was. The obvious constitutional response to that is, well yeah government agents should be fearful of the civilian population, that's the point of the 2nd amendment. Something seems broken though.

If a police officer pulls over a motorist in, lets call it most places on earth, they can reasonably expect that that person will not be armed. In the US, the opposite is basically true - especially in areas of high crime.

Combine that with a general suspicion of black people and, well the results speak for themselves. Too many guns, too little empathy, too much ignorance.

 

[Darla Starch]

Here's a good read.

 

[Joey D]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that the county medical examiner would classify Floyd's death as not caused by asphyxiation, but an independent autopsy would. It's almost like the county was trying to do damage control.

Independent autopsy finds George Floyd's death a homicide due to 'asphyxiation from sustained pressure'

 

[CTznOfTime]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that the county medical examiner would classify Floyd's death as not caused by asphyxiation, but an independent autopsy would. It's almost like the county was trying to do damage control.

Independent autopsy finds George Floyd's death a homicide due to 'asphyxiation from sustained pressure'

At this point, anyone standing in the way of fairness, or contributing to the persistent corruption of the government should be penalized!

 

[MatskiMonk]

Don't worry Americans the people of the UK stand united with you...

.... wait what was the dudes name again ... ah that'll do.

 

[Joey D]

This shows just how protests there were over the weekend:

One thing I find pretty incredible is that Wyoming, probably the whitest most conservative state in the union, had a protest. Also, Montana really must be sick of everything going on to field five protests. I wasn't even aware there were five cities in Montana capable of having enough people to stage a protest, but here we are. I think what this shows is it's not really about where your political beliefs lie or even what color your skin is at this point, but rather people are just fed up with the crap in general.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Not a single protest in Mississippi. Surprised to see it in Alaska and Hawaii though.

 

[DesertPenguin]

 

[PeterJB]

Not a single protest in Mississippi. Surprised to see it in Alaska and Hawaii though.

And nada in Vermont, New Hampshire and Idaho.

 

[F1GTR]

I understand why people would be outraged by the entire situation, but the global response just feels way out of proportion.

A bit like the Police response then.

Don't worry Americans the people of the UK stand united with you...

View attachment 926222

.... wait what was the dudes name again ... ah that'll do.

As a Lloyd that 'oy' swap is a nearly daily occurrence in emails/notes to me. It's the thought that counts I guess.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Because I don't know...has a US President ever activated military forces to deal with American citizens? Or at least since the end of reconstruction?Would seem like an ignominious achievement if he does do it.

It would seem that the Posse Comitatus Act specifically prohibits doing it.

 

[Joey D]

Because I don't know...has a US President ever activated military forces to deal with American citizens? Or at least since the end of reconstruction?Would seem like an ignominious achievement if he does do it.

It would seem that the Posse Comitatus Act specifically prohibits doing it.

Yes, in 1992 during the LA Riots the military was activated under the Insurrection Act of 1807 (10 U.S. Code § 251) by George H.W. Bush. Trump could invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 again through an executive order to roll out the military. Ideally, he'd need the request to come from a governor, but can be superseded by an Act of Congress.

One thing about the Posse Comitatus Act though is that it only deals with the Army and Air Force. Technically, Trump could use the Navy or Marines.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Technically, Trump could use the Navy or Marines.

Or the Space Force, with appropriate music.

 

[buickgnx88]

Or the Space Force, with appropriate music.