The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

No, I cannot. That would be part of the issue. Imagining isn't living.

Sure, I can use my imagination and pretend to know what it would be like, but I can't legitimately see what they go through from their own eyes. I'm not black.

In that case, you cannot put yourself in the shoes of any other human being. You cannot legitimately see what anyone goes through from their own eyes.

You are capable of both empathy and sympathy, at least if you're a normally functioning human being. It's an important human skill and capability, don't sell it short.
 
I'll go ahead and respond to this edit.

I can't say I know what it feels like to be an African American targeted unfairly by fellow citizens.

Can you?

I can say that I can imagine it. I can understand it. I can sympathize with it. I can say that I know what it feels like to be targeted unfairly by fellow citizens. I can only say that I know what it feels like to be one person, me. The human mind is capable of so much empathy that you can imagine what it is like to be all kinds of things. From real things like hunting animals or birds nesting... to imagined things. You can imagine what it would be like to be a fictional character, in fact, that's why fiction is so much fun.

Use your brain. The experience of black people is not so different. They're humans, like you, you can put yourself in their shoes.
 
Who gets the vast majority of force from the fascist police forces?

:) Don’t be so melodramatic. We are discussing the USA, not North Korea lol.
Most people I know are glad to have police forces and sheriffs protecting law and order.
The folks I know in law enforcement are good people, doing a big service to society. Times like this in America show just how much riskier their jobs are compared to the average middle management corporate desk jockey.
Let’s be clear. Protesting is one thing, Arson is another.
I’m very glad folks around here have their heads screwed on straight, think for themselves, and are largely unaffected by extremist narratives that are becoming more prevalent than ever.
 
Who gets the vast majority of force from the fascist police forces? Minorities. Specifically, Black people who fight against the white systems of power held up by settler-capitalism.

While I certainly agree the minorities are targeted more than whites by the police and that the justice system seemingly gives stronger sentences to minorities, over the past three years, more whites have been shot by police than minorities.

Yes, there is certainly a racial component to everything going on and it's important to recognize that. The bigger picture though is police forces using excessive force and getting away with it regardless of the race of the suspect. No one should accept that there are officers out there that default to overly violent means or just plan shooting a suspect.
 
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Police brutality is not exclusively white cops shooting black suspects either.
Yep and the only time in recent Minneapolis history of a cop being sentenced to hard time was when the victim was white and the cop was black.

If there were any lingering doubts if racism is limited to police; the entire justice system is infected with racism, bias and prejudice.
 
Yep and the only time in recent Minneapolis history of a cop being sentenced to hard time was when the victim was white and the cop was black.

Race has nothing to do with the incident. Mohamed Noor didn't shoot Justine Damond because she was white, he shot her because he was a terrible cop who was trigger happy. Noor has three complaints against him in two years on the force with one of those being the assault of a woman. During the incident, Noor shot an unarmed Damond through an open cruiser window because he was spooked by a noise. He deserved jail time due to gross negligence.
 
Race has nothing to do with the incident. Mohamed Noor didn't shoot Justine Damond because she was white, he shot her because he was a terrible cop who was trigger happy. Noor has three complaints against him in two years on the force with one of those being the assault of a woman. During the incident, Noor shot an unarmed Damond through an open cruiser window because he was spooked by a noise. He deserved jail time due to gross negligence.
3 complaints wow.
Derek Chauvin had 17.

Many cops deserve to go to prison but don't, even when there's clear evidence they should.

It's just an astonishing coincidence that this cop was black, as few as they are.
 
3 complaints wow.
Derek Chauvin had 17.

Many cops deserve to go to prison but don't, even when there's clear evidence they should.

It's just an astonishing coincidence that this cop was black, as few as they are.

You speak as if Chauvin has been acquitted. He hasn't even been put on trial yet.
 
While I certainly agree the minorities are targeted more than whites by the police and that the justice system seemingly gives stronger sentences to minorities, over the past three years, more whites have been shot by police than minorities.

Yes, there is certainly a racial component to everything going on and it's important to recognize that. The bigger picture though is police forces using excessive force and getting away with it regardless of the race of the suspect. No one should accept that there are officers out there that default to overly violent means or just plan shooting a suspect.

Does those numbers correct for the number of white vs black people in the USA?
13% of the U.S. population is black
72% of the U.S. population is white

If we correct for the population difference and bring it to the same level.. in 2019 370 whites were gunned down by the police...

1300 black people would have been gunned down.

That would be 930 more than white people IF we corrected for the population divide..
And this is just about gunned down, the hidden numbers are .. hidden.

There is a HUGE pigment influence on how people are treated by the american police, don't call it a race question, there is one race, the Human Race..
 
3 complaints wow.
Derek Chauvin had 17.

Many cops deserve to go to prison but don't, even when there's clear evidence they should.

It's just an astonishing coincidence that this cop was black, as few as they are.
You're not doing your argument any favors. Noor had 3 complaints in 2 years. Chauvin had 17 in 19 years as an officer.


Also didn't realize a complaint becomes grounds for prison. You're far too emotionally invested right now judging by your arguments made so far.
 
3 complaints wow.
Derek Chauvin had 17.

Many cops deserve to go to prison but don't, even when there's clear evidence they should.

It's just an astonishing coincidence that this cop was black, as few as they are.

You're trying to shoehorn racism into the Moor incident when it wasn't racially motivated at all. Damond could've been any race and Moor would've shot her since he didn't really have time to identify his target. He simply just pulled his gun and fired without thinking. Moor claims that Damond slammed her fist onto the patrol car, but the evidence presented in court suggests she never even touched the vehicle. So he just saw something after hearing a noise and fired. I mean do you think Moor shouldn't have been prosecuted and should've gotten away with it?

Officers are arrested though and convicted. While this data only goes to 2014, you can see the study done by Bowling Green State University here.
 
Does those numbers correct for the number of white vs black people in the USA?
13% of the U.S. population is black
72% of the U.S. population is white

If we correct for the population difference and bring it to the same level.. in 2019 370 whites were gunned down by the police...

1300 black people would have been gunned down.

That would be 930 more than white people IF we corrected for the population divide..
And this is just about gunned down, the hidden numbers are .. hidden.

There is a HUGE pigment influence on how people are treated by the american police, don't call it a race question, there is one race, the Human Race..

The numbers look a lot more balanced when you take into account the differing crime rates between whites and blacks, particularly in regard to homicide.
 
You're not doing your argument any favors. Noor had 3 complaints in 2 years. Chauvin had 17 in 19 years as an officer.


Also didn't realize a complaint becomes grounds for prison. You're far too emotionally invested right now judging by your arguments made so far.
I'm too emotional while you're the one making things up out of thin air, right.

In any case, length of service is irrelevant because you could also say that an experienced officer would be able to perform his duty more professionally as time goes on and not accumulate complaints.

And you can also say that he was becoming more comfortable with brutality as time went on.

Finally, he thought he could even get away with murder. He likely will, as history has shown.
 
I'm too emotional while you're the one making things up out of thin air, right.
I haven't made anything up.
In any case, length of service is irrelevant because you could also say that an experienced officer would be able to perform his duty more professionally as time goes on and not accumulate complaints.
Unless each complaint is detailed & released, it's hard to say. A complaint a year doesn't seem far fetched for an officer of any caliber or job that deals with the public.
And you can also say that he was becoming more comfortable with brutality as time went on.

Finally, he thought he could even get away with murder. He likely will, as history has shown.
Oh my, irony is strong with you. Making things up before anything has happened to showcase.

Once again, you're far too emotionally invested in this to have any logical conversation with about it. Your attitude is exactly why we have the foundation of, "Innocent until proven guilty". Because, an attitude like yours condemns before any & all facts are considered.
 
The numbers look a lot more balanced when you take into account the differing crime rates between whites and blacks, particularly in regard to homicide.
...and saying that, as much as it's the truth, is probably considered racism. Which really says a lot about how :censored:ed up the world is.
 
Don’t be so melodramatic. We are discussing the USA, not North Korea lol.

Are they so different at this moment in time?

2msz59.jpg


Seeing the news clip of the National Guard and police clearing the protesters away with flash bangs, tear gas and alleged rubber bullets, just for a cheap publicity stunt (holding the bible) was disgraceful.

I really hope the protests stop being so spontaneous and become more organised though as it looks like there's a lot more support this time around, giving the cause a lot more traction. Please don't give orange Donald 'the flex' Trump an excuse to get even more heavy handed.
 
Yeeees.

You don't have your location up so I can't tell if you're in the US, but what you just said is a big no-no in North Korea... not that you could say it on an internet forum because it's off the North Korean quarantined internet.

Yes, North Korea is vastly different from the US, even right now.

I can't think of any country that compares to North Korea. Even Saudi Arabia appears head-and-shoulders above it in the freedom and human rights department.
 
I can't think of any country that compares to North Korea. Even Saudi Arabia appears head-and-shoulders above it in the freedom and human rights department.

North Korea is basically a black hole. It's actually somewhat reprehensible that the rest of the nations of the world simply allow it. It's as though Nazi Germany were permitted to hang around just because they didn't take over their neighbors.
 
North Korea is basically a black hole. It's actually somewhat reprehensible that the rest of the nations of the world simply allow it. It's as though Nazi Germany were permitted to hang around just because they didn't take over their neighbors.
It's like a pet Nazi Germany that's allowed to exist because everyone only thinks it looks cute when it's angry.
 
The numbers look a lot more balanced when you take into account the differing crime rates between whites and blacks, particularly in regard to homicide.
But when you look at a strong baseline like innocent people, you find that the justice system is incredibly racist and prejudiced.

Exoneration_race_chart.jpg
 
North Korea is basically a black hole. It's actually somewhat reprehensible that the rest of the nations of the world simply allow it. It's as though Nazi Germany were permitted to hang around just because they didn't take over their neighbors.

Or rather Nazi Germany being permitted to exist because their slight less-repressive pitbull (China) will attack you.
 
North Korea is basically a black hole. It's actually somewhat reprehensible that the rest of the nations of the world simply allow it. It's as though Nazi Germany were permitted to hang around just because they didn't take over their neighbors.

Fortunately Nazi Germany didn't have an ally with the power and the size of China right on their borders back then.

@Sander 001 knowing Vox, I wonder if they took into account other factors, besides skin color. Like criminal record.
 
Are they so different at this moment in time

I’d say yes, the govt allows internet access here, and doesn’t offer the people grass soup recipes but I am figuring it was a rhetorical question, since the answer is a given :).
There’s so many socioeconomic factors over the last 30 years that have led into the events of the last week or so.
I’m horrified by the actions of those criminals committing crimes openly.
I’m horrified by the rhetoric, I’m horrified by the response, as are most of my neighbors.
I’m horrified by the narrative “there’s evil police=all police are evil”
It’s illogical to blame all for the actions of a few. Just because there’s part of a group that are evil DOES NOT mean all in said group are evil.
I’m horrified by the many socioeconomic factors leading to high crime rates in low income areas, not the least factor is the abysmal investment local and federal govt makes in education, for me that’s pretty dang horrifying, and it’s a huge contributing factor to the violence.
I’m horrified by the mentality of you tubers making videos advocating taking up arms and taking matters into their own hands.
Overall the whole situation is horrifying to me. ALL sides are to blame, for far too many reasons to list that have happened over the last 30 years.
Thankfully people around here are generally smart enough to see through the BS and think for themselves.
:)

Edit I guess most of all I am horrified at the ideology and behavior on the internet in many areas that’s been getting really bad too.
People have a hard time communicating, they are more interested in pushing a narrative than thinking or communicating oftentimes...
 
But when you look at a strong baseline like innocent people, you find that the justice system is incredibly racist and prejudiced.

Exoneration_race_chart.jpg

These figures line up very closely with the conviction rates for guilty suspects. I would wager that's because most violent crime in the US is intra-racial, but also because when you're looking for a suspect whose race has been corroborated by witnesses, questioning and arresting people outside that race is pointless and a waste of time. When an innocent black person is wrongly convicted of a crime, there is a very good chance the guilty party is black as well.
 
But when you look at a strong baseline like innocent people, you find that the justice system is incredibly racist and prejudiced.

Exoneration_race_chart.jpg

I wonder how much socioeconomics has to do with this, rather than just race - I don't want to suggest race has nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, black people make up a disproportionate amount of people living in poverty. It's hard to get a good lawyer when you're poor. Read another way, I wonder if the same trend would remain if you looked at only middle class Americans or high earning Americans. Even if this is true, it doesn't really make it better because the result is the same. We need to work on poverty and education.
 
4 officers were shot last night in St Louis and 1 was shot in Las Vegas. A man wearing body armor who reached for his gun after being hit with a beanbag round was killed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-officers-shot-st-louis-las-vegas/3122564001/
https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/06/02/las-vegas-officer-shot-nevada-protests-updates/5316237002/

Protests that began peacefully over the death of George Floyd turned violent in the St. Louis area, where four police officers were shot and a retired St. Louis police captain was shot to death by looters at a pawn shop.

St. Louis police on Tuesday said 77-year-old David Dorn, who retired in 2007 after 38 years with the department, was fatally shot by a looter.

Several thousand people joined the demonstrations in St. Louis over Floyd's death and police treatment of African Americans on Monday. But that night, a downtown convenience store was burned, windows were smashed, businesses burglarized and officers were pelted with rocks and fireworks.

A Las Vegas Metro officer was in critical condition Tuesday morning after a man who was believed to be a protester shot him Monday night, Sheriff Joe Lombardo said.

Lombardo said officers were attempting to clear protesters from Las Vegas Boulevard when the officer was shot some time before midnight.

The officer was on life support at University Medical Center in Las Vegas Tuesday morning.

A suspect in the shooting was arrested about 2:30 a.m. local time.

A separate shooting in Las Vegas took place Monday night when an armed man wearing body armor was shot and killed by police and federal agents guarding a federal building after he reached for his firearm at 11:22 p.m., the sheriff said. Lombardo said the man was an open-carry individual and was seen walking among protesters as the demonstration was dying down.

“What has occurred is utterly unacceptable," Lombardo said before ending the brief press conference.
 
That would only show more prejudice. Much more prejudice if people are being convicted solely for priors.

For sure there's prejudice. But that isn't the only factor. If someone has a criminal record, the chances of being wrongfully convicted are probably higher compared to someone who doesn't. Unfortunately, almost 50% of all violent crime is committed by and among black people (which means most victims are also black).

It's such a complex issue. I just hope the US starts to figure it out and make steps into a better, more just society.

Edit: as @Eunos_Cosmo mentioned, economical status is also a huge factor in difference of treatment. I mean, even among people with the same color tone. A rich person will get away with a lot more than a poor one. Which is obviously a problem.
 
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