The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

The impending end of the CHOP has been declared by the Mayor. No schedule, no plan. The Summer of Love ended in midnight gun fire and black teen death.

This week the Mayor's budget for 2021 goes to the City Council. This city is hundreds of millions in the red this year, with new hundreds of millions in red added due to the coronavirus response. It will only get worse. The Mayor will be asking for a piddling 5% reduction in the police budget. Leading members of the .City Council want a 50% defunding.

 
Those rebs are still not giving up.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/24/sons-of-confederate-vets-take-responsibility-defund-nascar-banner/

bd78d55a0a414ef3802595eca93dba3b_md.jpg


They want to exercise their 1st Amendment rights by forcing a private corporation to allow their traitor loser flag to be displayed on its property. NASCAR must be loving the publicity.
 
Sorry for the old headline. I only just heard about this. The appeals court is preparing to hear this man's sentence according to the Oakland Press but that website isn't available in my country.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/ma...h-wants-retrial-claiming-he-was-oversentenced

Here's the more up-to-date version of the story from The Oakland Press. I'll quote it for you since you can't see it.

https://www.theoaklandpress.com/new...cle_0423f272-a99c-11ea-b424-ff86cc20fab0.html

Was the prosecution wrong to imply racism in the case against Jeffrey Zeigler, a white man now serving time for shooting at a black teen who stopped at his house to ask for directions?

And should the Oakland County judge who sent him to prison have to justify why the sentence exceeded state guidelines?

Those questions are being considered by the state’s Court of Appeals after hearing arguments June 5 from Zeigler’s defense attorney, Phillip Comorski, and Oakland County assistant prosecutor Danielle Walton regarding the conviction of the 55-year-old former Detroit firefighter.

An Oakland County jury found Zeigler guilty in October 2018 of assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than murder and a firearms offense. He was sentenced the following month.

During last Friday’s proceeding, Comorski told the 3-judge panel that now-retired Judge Wendy Potts erred in not ordering a mistrial due to a detective’s testimony, which indicated Zeigler described the teen, Brennan Walker, as a “colored boy” and “colored kid” in Oakland County Circuit Court. Comorski argued that it was later “stipulated what (Zeigler) actually said," and that the “inflammatory remarks” presented by the detective “improperly injected race into the case when it really wasn’t an issue.”

But by then, Comorski said, "the bell (couldn't) be unrung."

“Types of words and language can have serious ramifications in the minds of everyday people, including jurors,” Comorski argued.

He’s also seeking a re-sentencing, and wants the lower court to clarify reasons for departing from state guidelines for sending Zeigler to prison for 2 to 10 years for the assault. Zeigler is also serving a mandatory 2-year sentence for possessing a firearm in the commission of a felony.

A full sentencing review puts Zeigler at risk of ending up with a longer sentence.

Following Potts’ retirement, the case was reassigned to Oakland County Circuit Judge Jeffery Matis.

Walton argued that during the trial, Zeigler’s defense attorney at the time, Rob Morad, didn’t object to the portions of the detective’s testimony that Comorski said created an issue, nor had he moved for a mistrial. Walton further argued that Potts’ sentencing implied that it reflected statements from the prosecution — such as Zeigler lying under oath about firing a “warning shot” at Brennan when surveillance video showed otherwise, a prior misdemeanor conviction involving a firearm and more.

The April 12, 2018 incident unfolded when Brennan, 14 at the time, went to Zeigler's Rochester Hills house for help after missing his bus and getting lost while walking to Rochester High School. Zeigler’s wife, Dana Zeigler, thought the teenager was trying to break in and screamed for her husband, who responded with his shotgun. Brennan was not shot in the incident.

Zeigler is in the Central Michigan Correctional Facility in St. Louis. His earliest release date is listed as Oct. 8, 2022.

Basically, Ziegler is arguing that because the testimony of the detective said that Ziegler called Brennan Walker "a colored boy" when he said he didn't actually say that, it should've been a mistrial. Nevermind that he discharged a weapon, in a neighborhood, in an attempt to murder someone fleeing. That's not self-defense, that's active attempted murder.

I'm going to laugh when Ziegler ends up with a longer sentence. Judge Matis was a family court judge too and is very pro-kid so I can't see him taking too kindly to someone who shot at a 14-year-old who was actively trying to get to school. He's also a Rochester native too.
 
Thanks @Joey D - I figured the Press article had more detail but couldn't read it.

Basically, Ziegler is arguing that because the testimony of the detective said that Ziegler called Brennan Walker "a colored boy" when he said he didn't actually say that, it should've been a mistrial. Nevermind that he discharged a weapon, in a neighborhood, in an attempt to murder someone fleeing. That's not self-defense, that's active attempted murder.

I'm going to laugh when Ziegler ends up with a longer sentence. Judge Matis was a family court judge too and is very pro-kid so I can't see him taking too kindly to someone who shot at a 14-year-old who was actively trying to get to school. He's also a Rochester native too.
I can't help thinking Ziegler lied under oath about firing a "warning shot in self-defense" because he knew what would likely happen when the facts came out. I wonder whether young Brennan got as far as the doorbell before Mrs. Ziegler started hollering that he was trying to break in. If so, then what kind of b&e job involves pressing the doorbell first?

Between this and the previous road rage incident which Ziegler is reportedly trying to get thrown out, I don't think it's looking good for Ziegler. The first judge made the right decision and from what you say, it's likely Matis will uphold the sentence as well. I don't know in what world this would qualify as self-defence. Thank god nobody was injured.

He still doesn't seem to have shown any remorse and I bet his wife hasn't either, judging by the statement Brennan's mum Lisa Wright made after the initial sentencing:
clickondetroit.com
"I don't feel like he's remorseful. I don't feel like he's shown remorse. I feel like it's only because of the media that he feels as though he has to say he's sorry. His wife hasn't shown any remorse. I feel like myself and my son are the only ones that are really sorry in this whole thing, and we haven't done anything ...," Wright said.

"I try to keep race out of it, but we all know that's pretty much what it was. It's not fair for people to dislike us about something that we can't control. If there was a button I could press for me to pick what color I could be just so I wouldn't have to deal with this type of stuff, I would have to be your color so I could survive. That's not fair."
 
Last edited:
Are protesters allowed freedom of assembly on private gated streets where they do not live?

I believe the mayor lived in the neighborhood and had recently read off names and addresses of people asking to defund the police. The mayor is likely held up in her home due to COVID and not at city hall.

Either way, you can't go out and brandish a firearm like that and it's not the resident's job to protect the street. If a protester entered their property and it could be proven that they were going to do harm to the homeowner, then they could pull a weapon and even open fire on those people. One thing that they teach in any firearms class is when you can and cannot pull a gun. A situation where the person is on the street, unarmed, and confrontational is likely one of those situations where you cannot pull a gun.

If the mayor does live in the community though, it would be interesting to see if the city pays for the house. I feel like there would be some questions if the mayor lived in a taxpayer-funded house in a gated community that no one could access. Obviously, people can't just barge into the house but something just seems off if the mayor is more or less locked away. It'd be even more of a head-scratcher if the mayor's house is one of the "Mayor's Mansions" owned by the city.
 
I believe the mayor lived in the neighborhood and had recently read off names and addresses of people asking to defund the police. The mayor is likely held up in her home due to COVID and not at city hall.

Either way, you can't go out and brandish a firearm like that and it's not the resident's job to protect the street. If a protester entered their property and it could be proven that they were going to do harm to the homeowner, then they could pull a weapon and even open fire on those people. One thing that they teach in any firearms class is when you can and cannot pull a gun. A situation where the person is on the street, unarmed, and confrontational is likely one of those situations where you cannot pull a gun.

If the mayor does live in the community though, it would be interesting to see if the city pays for the house. I feel like there would be some questions if the mayor lived in a taxpayer-funded house in a gated community that no one could access. Obviously, people can't just barge into the house but something just seems off if the mayor is more or less locked away. It'd be even more of a head-scratcher if the mayor's house is one of the "Mayor's Mansions" owned by the city.
A Govt. official is doxxing people? 2020 just adding more & more.
 
Black lives are now being gunned down on an almost daily basis in Seattle's autonomous CHOP zone. The early message of Black Lives Matter is in tatters, its grandiose demands unmet. The mayor, city and state are being sued by local business owners and residents denied their rights, safety and liberty. The mayor and city council are still frozen in vacillation and inaction as the Summer of Love horror show goes on and on.



 
Either way, you can't go out and brandish a firearm like that and it's not the resident's job to protect the street. If a protester entered their property and it could be proven that they were going to do harm to the homeowner, then they could pull a weapon and even open fire on those people. One thing that they teach in any firearms class is when you can and cannot pull a gun. A situation where the person is on the street, unarmed, and confrontational is likely one of those situations where you cannot pull a gun.

Private street is still private property, it's not city owned street, ergo rioters were trespassing on private property.

But yeah they should have guns at the ready and not point at rioters, that's not good weapon handling.
 
Private street is still private property, it's not city owned street, ergo rioters were trespassing on private property.

But yeah they should have guns at the ready and not point at rioters, that's not good weapon handling.

They should call the police, and management of the gated community to handle it. Their guns should have stayed in their home (and so should they if they were concerned).

The penalty for walking on a street in a gated community without being a resident is not death.
 
Private street is still private property, it's not city owned street, ergo rioters were trespassing on private property.

But yeah they should have guns at the ready and not point at rioters, that's not good weapon handling.

It wasn't their private property though, it was someone else's, unless they own the neighborhood.
 
It wasn't their private property though, it was someone else's, unless they own the neighborhood.

sure, but point is that rioters are committing criminal trespassing and people should be able to defend themselves, they didn't handle their weapons as they should, that's true.
 
sure, but point is that rioters are committing criminal trespassing and people should be able to defend themselves, they didn't handle their weapons as they should, that's true.
I think the court will decide whether that's "point" or not.

The penalty for walking on a street in a gated community without being a resident is not death.
To me, this is the point. Saying "nobody died" is sidestepping it.
 
sure, but point is that rioters are committing criminal trespassing and people should be able to defend themselves, they didn't handle their weapons as they should, that's true.

They weren't rioters, there's a big difference between protesting and rioting. None of the videos show them actively rioting.

While they were potentially trespassing, the simple act of trespassing isn't grounds to pull a weapon. I don't allow missionaries at my house, but they're not trespassing if they come up and knock on my door. I can't pull my gun on them because they're not doing anything to forcibly enter my property.

Also, the protesters weren't engaging with the people so theirs nothing to defend against. You also can't defend private property that isn't your property to begin with. Someone owns the neighborhood, it's their property. Nothing that's come out so far has said the two people waving guns around own the neighborhood.
 
ok, peaceful protesters who are committing crime are what?

Probably trespassing protesters. I'm not sure whether "peaceful" is appropriate for trespassing. But rioting is not really either. Just... protesters who are trespassing seems sufficient.
 
You can peacefully trespass. You hear about people checking out abandoned factories, psych wards, that kind of thing. Those that go to vandalize, steal (what's left) and graffiti would be considered "non-peaceful"?
 
ok, peaceful protesters who are committing crime are what?

Rioting typically describes a group of people who are violent and destroying property. Neither of those things happened. Was there a group of people potentially trespassing? Sure, but they walked through an unlocked gate and stayed on the road.

Legally, I'm not sure the people who own the neighborhood really have grounds to press trespassing charges. Typically, a gated/private community like that doesn't use government services and is often tax-exempt from a city. If that's the case with this neighborhood, then the mayor living there raises all sorts of flags. I can pretty much guarantee you the mayor uses city services and, at the very least, pays some sort of association fee. Since the mayor collects a salary, then they are probably paying those fees with taxpayer money. Really a political head like a mayor shouldn't be living in a place like that since it creates some really gray area legally.
 
You can peacefully trespass. You hear about people checking out abandoned factories, psych wards, that kind of thing. Those that go to vandalize, steal (what's left) and graffiti would be considered "non-peaceful"?

It kinda depends on how you view trespassing. I view it fairly strictly, so to me it's a bit of an oxymoron to peacefully trespass. Maybe that's just me. Maybe if the trespass was accidental.
 
Speaking of suicide, local BLM activists have made it a daily matter to block traffic on I-5 in the heart of downtown Seattle. Finally the inevitable happened and a black dude (on meth?) drove his Jaguar the wrong way up an off-ramp at night around the blocking vehicles and struck two people at high speed, blasting them high into the air before splattering down onto the pavement. A 24 year old woman is dead and and an older lady still serious. These daily I-5 protests have been tolerated by officials, as well as media and citizens. WSP has now voiced concerns that these are too dangerous to continue. But I expect they will continue in some fashion, as they are very effective. The social protests involving scores of thousands of people are said to have negligible effect on the spread of coronavirus, according to local media.

I don't know if you have seen the footage, but the guy follows the right direction of traffic, swerves to avoid a collision with cars parked on the highway, and finds a bunch of morons standing on a road where traffic normally goes pretty fast, and it's dark outside.

Every single protestor on the highway is a candidate for a Darwin Award.
 
This is a really good analysis of qualified immunity protection for police officers, and makes a pretty thorough case for reform of that defense. Reform would have to come from congress.

 
We had another large protest here in SLC last night that ended up having to have the governor declare a state of emergency.

https://kutv.com/news/local/salt-la...vandalism-wont-discourage-work-to-seek-reform

It all stems from the shooting of Bernadro Palacios-Carbajal by police. Yesterday the DA declared the shooting justified and people didn't take too kindly to it. Several people took to the streets and threw red paint all over the DA's office building downtown. They then started throwing rocks and breaking windows. Before long the police showed up and there was a standoff and all that fun stuff that goes on when a protest turns into a small scale riot.

For those that don't know that story of Palacios-Carbajal, I posted about it earlier in one of these threads. Essentially, he had a gun and confronted police, he then took off running which prompted the officers to open fire on him. They fire over 20 rounds into the backside of Palacios-Carbajal and even managed to shoot some of his fingers off.

While opening fire could be argued as justified, I don't think a suspect whos back is to you is any real threat at that moment. Also, 20 rounds? That's excessive force no matter how you look at it. If it was one or two rounds in the back, then sure, argue that it was justified or whatever, but two officers emptying their entire clips? I don't think so.
 
Also, 20 rounds? That's excessive force no matter how you look at it. If it was one or two rounds in the back, then sure, argue that it was justified or whatever, but two officers emptying their entire clips?

Going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off-topic here but this reminds me of something that happened many moons ago.

We had a sort of muslim extremist political murder here in the early 00's on Theo van Gogh, a free mind with an opinion on everything. After the murder the police hunted down the killer and in something that resembled a fire fight, but really wasn't, a bunch of cops fired 81! shots at the perp, and managed to hit him

1 time. In his leg.
 
Back