The Avengers: Age of Ultron is Live. Don't forget the Spoiler Tags, Damnit.Movies

[FoolKiller]

Well I was referring to the 10/10, which I think is overly generous.

How so? I have it my top score because I enjoyed it that much. If it is the 100% thing, your score was 100% of your maximum.

To counterbalance your re-watching of Avengers tonight, I just finished re-watching Iron Man tonight. I find it to be a superior film in almost every aspect. I was specifically watching for bad dialog during phone conversations and abrupt bad guy changes and I can't agree with either of those criticisms. It's actually better than I remembered.

Google Iron Man and Ten Rings (the name of the terrorist group). Now, I know seeing where they were going presupposes knowledge of the comics, but without that you still go from the Ten Rings finding the Mark I suit and piecing it all together with camera shots focusing in on their leader's face to them just wanting a Jericho (because a terrorist wouldn't want an Iron Man suit when they can have good old fashioned missiles) and suddenly being completely removed from the story by Stane in less than five minutes.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Google Iron Man and Ten Rings (the name of the terrorist group). Now, I know seeing where they were going presupposes knowledge of the comics, but without that you still go from the Ten Rings finding the Mark I suit and piecing it all together with camera shots focusing in on their leader's face to them just wanting a Jericho (because a terrorist wouldn't want an Iron Man suit when they can have good old fashioned missiles) and suddenly being completely removed from the story by Stane in less than five minutes.

Got you here, Danoff. That is a good example of poor script writing. Even Favreau himself admitted in the director's commentary that a lot of lines in Iron Man 1 were ad libbed to the point where some of Tony's lines (especially the Stark Industries's press conferences) were made up in front of the camera. In fact, they had to redo the second press conference for Iron Man 2 not only because they had to get rid of Terrence Howard, but to give it more polish.

 

[Danoff]

How so? I have it my top score because I enjoyed it that much. If it is the 100% thing, your score was 100% of your maximum.

That's intentional. You're saying that Avengers was better than 9/10ths. I'm saying it was better than 1/2.

Google Iron Man and Ten Rings (the name of the terrorist group). Now, I know seeing where they were going presupposes knowledge of the comics, but without that you still go from the Ten Rings finding the Mark I suit and piecing it all together with camera shots focusing in on their leader's face to them just wanting a Jericho (because a terrorist wouldn't want an Iron Man suit when they can have good old fashioned missiles) and suddenly being completely removed from the story by Stane in less than five minutes.

You have the script out of order. Nobody ever pines after a Jerricho after piecing together the Mark 1 suit. Here's the rundown for Iron Man in spoiler tags in case anyone hasn't seen Iron Man.

Spoiler

- Obadiah pays a group in Afghanistan (Ten Rings?) in Stark weapons to attack a US military convoy and kill everyone.

"You did not tell us that the target you
paid us to kill was the great Tony Stark.
... your deception and lies
will cost you dearly.

The price to kill Tony Stark
has just gone up."

- Stark is kept alive once they discover who he is. They want him to build them the most powerful weapon they know of - the Jerricho (Mark 1 has not been invented).

- Stark invents the Mark 1, escapes.

- Stark shuts down weapons development and production until he can figure out how Ten Rings? got ahold of Stark weapons.

- Obadiah goes to the Ten Rings to find out how Stark escaped and figure out what he's currently working on.

- Ten Rings demands suits in repayment for the Mark 1.

- Obadiah kills Ten Rings leader, takes the suit.

- Pepper discovers that Obadiah is the one who originally tried to have Stark killed. Ten Rings are revealed as pawns and the person who had been selling them weapons was revealed to be Obadiah.

- Obadiah confronts stark for the energy to power the suit.

- Pepper confronts Obadiah, who uses his suit and Tony's power supply to almost escape.

That's perfectly fine flow, and completely set up from the beginning. The hood reveal during the opening logo is an argument between the bad guys - not the single-handed work of the Ten Rings. The seeds of how Stark ended up in the cave are shown to you in the opening scene when he gets the shrapnel from his very own weapon. There's no denying that every single aspect of the antagonist is tied into how the group that attacked his convoy managed become so well armed. In the very first scene you know that there is a problem higher up than the people attacking the convoy, and that continuity stays throughout the movie.

Got you here, Danoff. That is a good example of poor script writing. Even Favreau himself admitted in the director's commentary that a lot of lines in Iron Man 1 were ad libbed to the point where some of Tony's lines (especially the Stark Industries's press conferences) were made up in front of the camera. In fact, they had to redo the second press conference for Iron Man 2 not only because they had to get rid of Terrence Howard, but to give it more polish.

One of the best lines in movie history was ad libbed by Harrison Ford.

 

[JediRage]

Finally got around to seeing it to check out what all the hype was about. It's not as good as Iron Man or Batman Begins, but atleast it does not pretend to be a laughable pseudo-intellectual thesis on the human condition like The Dark Knight.

Worth a watch and yes, the HULK is freaking awesome.

 

[Sanji Himura]

One of the best lines in movie history was ad libbed by Harrison Ford.

One or two lines ad libbed is perfectly fine, but when you got half the movie improvised, the proper term, as Favreau himself admitted that before Iron Man he never did an action movie, then you got serious problems with the movie itself.

 

[Swift]

Best fantasy superhero movie ever. I don't put it in the same realm as the new batman series because it's actually based primarily in reality. Cancelled Armed Forces technology, etc.

But yeah, the Avengers was better then the first two Spider man movies and anything else out with a comic character.

Favorite part was when Hulked turned at the beginning of the final action sequence. That was just great.

 

[FoolKiller]

That's intentional. You're saying that Avengers was better than 9/10ths. I'm saying it was better than 1/2.

For its genre, yes, I left the theater feeling as if it deserved that kind of score because it was everything I hoped a comic book movie would be, which was a near direct translation from comic to screen. For someone who didn't read comics I don't expect it to be rated as high because you are looking for something else or something more.

If you want it placed on a comparable scale to all movies, then I'd probably give it something like a 7.5/10, but few comic book story lines deserve higher compared to all other stories. In fact, I'd hesitate to give even some of Alan Moore's stories anything above an 8 Heck, if we use this same scale for all movies comic book movies, along with most films, will never break an 8.5 due to original story. No film based on an already existing property deserves a great score because it shouldn't be hard to not screw it up. Unless you're Michael Bay.

Speaking of Bay, let's be honest here. I tend to be harsh in my judgment of movies based on properties I have a lifelong connection to. Seeing positive reviews from the masses early on had me nervous. I felt the same as I did walking into every Tranformers film to date, tons of praise for a film I have hoped could be made. But in that case I walked away wondering if I had seen the same cartoons or read the same comics the film's creators did. In this situation I walked away feeling like someone had asked for my direction during production.

There was even a but if dialogue that I had in my head that was said only a few minutes later:

Spoiler

Watching Hawkeye, I was noticing that some of his faster moments were similar to Legolas in LOTR and thought it would be awesome if someone made fun of him by calling him Legolas. Maybe five items later Iron Man is giving him a lift to a rooftop and says, "Clinch up, Legolas."

You have the script out of order. Nobody ever pines after a Jerricho after piecing together the Mark 1 suit. Here's the rundown for Iron Man in spoiler tags in case anyone hasn't seen Iron Man.

You're right. Doesn't change the fact that a group able to neutralize a military convoy, complete with military VIPs that would make weapons purchasing decisions, gets taken out by a rich guy with some mercenaries.

That's perfectly fine flow, and completely set up from the beginning. The hood reveal during the opening logo is an argument between the bad guys - not the single-handed work of the Ten Rings. The seeds of how Stark ended up in the cave are shown to you in the opening scene when he gets the shrapnel from his very own weapon. There's no denying that every single aspect of the antagonist is tied into how the group that attacked his convoy managed become so well armed. In the very first scene you know that there is a problem higher up than the people attacking the convoy, and that continuity stays throughout the movie.

All of this was meant to point toward Mandarin, who was to play a background role until a later sequel, similar to Emperor Palpatine. Stane was made the main villain only after Jeff Bridges was brought on to play the character. These aren't things I'm making up. They are public knowledge regarding the production.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man_(film)#section_3

Choosing a villain was difficult, because Favreau felt Iron Man's archnemesis, the Mandarin, would not feel realistic, especially after Mark Millar gave his opinion on the script.[45] He felt only in a sequel, with an altered tone, would the fantasy of the Mandarin's rings be appropriate.[49] The decision to push him into the background is comparable to Sauron in The Lord of the Rings,[47] or Palpatine in Star Wars.[49] Favreau also wanted Iron Man to face a giant enemy. The switch from Mandarin to Obadiah Stane was done after Bridges was cast.[26] Stane had originally been intended to become a villain in the sequel.[45] The Crimson Dynamo was also a villain in early drafts in the script.[7]

<snip>

There was much improvisation in dialogue scenes, because the script was not completed when filming began (the filmmakers had focused on the story making sense and planning the action). Favreau acknowledged that improvisation would make the film feel more natural. Some scenes were shot with two cameras to capture lines said on the spot.

What makes Iron Man amazing to me is that it maintained continuity and avoided any major plot holes despite all of that.

 

[Danoff]

One or two lines ad libbed is perfectly fine, but when you got half the movie improvised, the proper term, as Favreau himself admitted that before Iron Man he never did an action movie, then you got serious problems with the movie itself.

...which is what, exactly?

Best fantasy superhero movie ever.

...besides Iron Man (and maybe Iron Man 2) - batman being a different kind of movie.

If you want it placed on a comparable scale to all movies, then I'd probably give it something like a 7.5/10

Now we're talking. That's more realistic in my book.

Spoiler

Watching Hawkeye, I was noticing that some of his faster moments were similar to Legolas in LOTR and thought it would be awesome if someone made fun of him by calling him Legolas. Maybe five items later Iron Man is giving him a lift to a rooftop and says, "Clinch up, Legolas."

I actually had the same thought, as did my wife. I think it just goes to show how much influence that other movie/book has had on pop culture. That was a fun Avengers moment though. It's nice to see that they read books and go to movies too.

You're right. Doesn't change the fact that a group able to neutralize a military convoy, complete with military VIPs that would make weapons purchasing decisions, gets taken out by a rich guy with some mercenaries.

Well, in between them taking out a military convoy and having trouble with Mr. Rich, they do lose like 90% of their advanced tech and lots of goons to a billionaire playboy. So that does help explain things.

All of this was meant to point toward Mandarin, who was to play a background role until a later sequel, similar to Emperor Palpatine. Stane was made the main villain only after Jeff Bridges was brought on to play the character. These aren't things I'm making up. They are public knowledge regarding the production.

I didn't read any of that (actually not happy about reading it now). I didn't know anything about the comic books, so I had no idea about any of this. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

What makes Iron Man amazing to me is that it maintained continuity and avoided any major plot holes despite all of that.

So much so that someone like myself who had no knowledge of the comic books or what changes were made didn't notice a hiccup in continuity. I've seen the film enough times to really dig into the plot and it holds water extremely well for what it is*. All the way down to Stane checking in after the Jerricho demo to make sure it went well - presumably so that he could make adjustments to his plans if the demo didn't go well. That's continuity at a very detailed level.


*Naturally there are several times where Stark would have died even in his suit. I still roll my eyes when he lawn darts into the sand dune... and then again when he gets hit (somehow) by a tank round and lawn darts into concrete.

 

[Sanji Himura]

You know what is funny is that before Favreau left the franchise, they did incorporate the Crimson Dynamo in some fashion in IM 2

 

[Swift]

...besides Iron Man (and maybe Iron Man 2) - batman being a different kind of movie.

.

I said that right?

 

[FoolKiller]

Now we're talking. That's more realistic in my book.

Yeah, but if I used that scale then I'd give something like Cabin Boy a 2/10 only to go on and rave about how hilarious the slapstick was and how David Letterman has the greatest cameo in history.

So much so that someone like myself who had no knowledge of the comic books or what changes were made didn't notice a hiccup in continuity.

I was asked about it by a former coworker who felt like it was two films stuck together. He wanted to know what the Ten Rings were in the comics, which turned into way more comic story than he actually wanted to hear. Mandarin's story is a bit complex and I'm saddened to know enough about the characters in Iron Man 3 to know we will never see him.

*Naturally there are several times where Stark would have died even in his suit. I still roll my eyes when he lawn darts into the sand dune... and then again when he gets hit (somehow) by a tank round and lawn darts into concrete.

Ever notice that when he's in the suit he turns his head to look at all of his HUD, like it's a multi-screen setup, but the helmet isn't moving at all?

 

[Danoff]

Ever notice that when he's in the suit he turns his head to look at all of his HUD, like it's a multi-screen setup, but the helmet isn't moving at all?

I assumed he was looking at something outside the helmet.

I was asked about it by a former coworker who felt like it was two films stuck together.

I can see that mistake if you're not paying attention to the film. I think the first time I saw it the big reveal was a bit jarring to me too and I felt like the movie changed a bit from there. On second viewing the beginning comes into focus better and you realize it was there the whole time. It was supposed to escape your notice (but still be there) the first time. I think that makes it a better movie.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I was asked about it by a former coworker who felt like it was two films stuck together. He wanted to know what the Ten Rings were in the comics, which turned into way more comic story than he actually wanted to hear. Mandarin's story is a bit complex and I'm saddened to know enough about the characters in Iron Man 3 to know we will never see him.

Actually, despite news to the contrary, IGN still buys the fact that Ben Kingsley signed on to play the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. IGN says in it's "Everything that we know about IM 3 report,"

Spoiler

we all know that Ben Kinglsey has been cast as a villain in the film, and despite reports that he isn't playing The Mandarin, we're not convinced. Kingsley's character apparently weaves a plot that "revolves around the spread of a virus through nanobots." That sounds like Extremis to us, and using Extremis as a terrorist weapon is something Mandarin has done in the past.

Spoiler

I agree with IGN's assessment so far, the movie will be told in two or three arcs, one to actually tell the Extremis story itself, the second to confront a massive plot using nanobots. With filming to take place in China, it isn't much of a stretch to say that the Mandarin would make an appearance here.

 

[FoolKiller]

Actually, despite news to the contrary, IGN still buys the fact that Ben Kingsley signed on to play the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. IGN says in it's "Everything that we know about IM 3 report,"

If Mandarin is involved, I think Kingsley is not the actor they should be looking at. Andy Lau would be perfect for the role, seeing as he has done martial arts films, and he has been signed. I can't see Ben Kingsley as a martial arts master.

I didn't know Lau was signed until now. I may rethink my Mandarin theory.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Still the point remains that part of the movie will be filmed in China.

 

[nk4e]

IMO,Andy Lau will probably be a better supporting actor than a main villain. He does a excellent job in Infernal Affair series.

 

[Sanji Himura]

If Mandarin is involved, I think Kingsley is not the actor they should be looking at. Andy Lau would be perfect for the role, seeing as he has done martial arts films, and he has been signed. I can't see Ben Kingsley as a martial arts master.

I didn't know Lau was signed until now. I may rethink my Mandarin theory.

Here is a few comparison images. Again, I only reported the news, so please don't shoot the messenger.

Image 1 is Ben Kingsley with The Mandarin side by side. Image 2 is a screen cap of House of Flying Daggers with Andy Lau.

Again, I don't know who will eventually play the character, if he appears at all. All we know is that telling multiple story arcs is right up Shane Black's alley, so a terrorist plot involving nanomachines isn't too far out of the question for Black if the script is right.

 

[Famine]

Just out of idle curiousity... there was one word in the film that thoroughly surprised me... I always thought it was a peculiarly British word and it was sneaked past the US censors completely, but how did it get there?

Pleasantly surprised, mind

 

[Danoff]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll let others guess.

 

[Famine]

You mewling quim!

Pretty much that.

I'd hazard a guess one writer (or more) was a Brit, or it was Hiddleston's influence.

 

[Danoff]

Huh... did not catch that. Yea that seems British. I guess when making a movie about America being attacked by bad guys, you have to throw in a few indicators that the bad guys are from somewhere else - appeals to general xenophobia.

 

[Famine]

It's already becoming a meme of sorts:

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/250x250/20389563.jpg

And so on.

 

[FoolKiller]

It wouldn't be the first time Whedon used a foreign language to slide language by the censors. I doubt he could use the American equivalent(s) and keep the PG-13 rating.

 

[Danoff]

Mewling is another example of that. Quim might get caught by itself, but Mewling Quim is just gibberish! The whole phrase seems derived specifically to fly over the heads of the censors.

After watching "This Film Not Yet Rated", I have to say I'm not surprised that kind of things works. The censors, sorry - ratings experts, are a joke.

 

[Brett]

What part of the movie was that quote from?

 

[Famine]

It's during a confrontation in the helicarrier between Loki and the Black Widow - with her red ledger.

 

[Brett]

As I was typing the question, that moment came to mind. I now kinda want to watch the movie again just to hear that line, since I completely missed it through two screenings.

 

[niky]

Heard it... never thought about it.

Now makes me wonder whatall got snuck through in Chinese in "Firefly"...

 

[FoolKiller]

Ok, time to update speculations with info from Comic Con.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=92556

Iron Man 3: Ben Kingsley is Mandarin. I don't see it, but I didn't see Jeff Bridges as Iron Monger either.

New full titles:

Thor: The Dark World
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (WOOHOO!!!) - non-comic fans are in for a shocker. Comic fans already have this one pretty figured out.

Test footage was shown for an Ant Man film, so we may expect Wasp and Ant/Giant Man before its all done.

Finally, they reveal Guardians of the Galaxy.
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=92559

Those familiar with this (new members, not the gathering of familiar heroes from years back) know that it will likely open the door to more of Thanos' story, as well as info on the Infinity Gauntlet. If they make a future appearance in an Avengers film I won't be surprised.

Now, here is the thing. This film, even more than Thor, or if they had done Dr Strange, confirms to me why I think Marvel films are better than what DC/WB have done. I've already said Marvel's strength has been putting the absurd on screen and demanding that you accept it. DC keeps trying to place their films in our world, which is odd when you consider that they made up their cities.

Anyway, what am I saying? Here is the concept art for Guardians of the Galaxy:

Marvel will officially put Rocket Raccoon on screen before DC could try anything more risky than Green Lantern. If a wise-cracking space police sentient raccoon (officially more off the wall than the giant sentient tree, known as Groot, hanging out in the back) can be pulled off, and actually excite fans we can handle Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Blue Beetle, Captain Marvel, and any Superman villain other than Lex Luthor.

Anyway, that rant is over. And before anyone begins, the original Guardians cast is impossible with current licensing deals.

 

[niky]

Green Lantern should have been a winner, but it wasn't... Thor's premise was patently more ridiculous and less fantastical than GL's could have been, but it worked. I agree, Marvel has that weird ability to translate it's own brand of madness to the big screen.

Rocket Raccoon? Let me go eat my hat...