- 1,795
What? How could you list two trim levels of Z on the roadster list but not list the MazdaSpeed Miata, a few pretty pennies cheaper, and although not as fast most definately more ful to drive 🤬
The best 2004 models!
- Thread starter 1X83Z
- 97 comments
- 7,487 views
ShobThaBob
Premium
- 2,651
- rosooftw
Yeah, you know what a Nissan dealer will tell you? I think it would go something like this "Well, you could get that little car, but the 350z has a lot more room, is more comfortable, and it has over 100 more horsepower." That's why it's above the miata 
- 10,687
- Everywhere
M5Power
Perhaps I don't understand your definitions, but are you DAFT??
My complaint still stands that you can not select two cars of the same model with different trim level in the same group. That's just lame. And ignorant. Also, you have the 350Z in the WRONG GROUP. "Small convertible" would be the Ford Street Ka, or Mazda Miata. The 350Z runs with the Mustang, Boxster, Z4, S2000 ... and speaking of the S2000, everyone says you're an idiot. Every car magazine and every website who's journalists have driven a large handful of these comparable cars have put the S2000 in front by a large margin.
Factually you're wrong. And your opinions are stupid. Go away.
LoudMusic
One of your better posts, easily. You really let your emotions get the better of you. Lovely going.
While I've gotten complaints from fans of certain cars - usually German, but frequently S2000 and other cars I've "left off" my favourites list, the list stands because factually I'm right. My opinions may be stupid but you can't argue the facts. So here goes:
No it isn't. In order to analyze each car individually, I don't look at the styling, the power rating, and the drive wheels. It's a careful process that takes a look at the most wanted features and specs by buyers within a class. One class might factor handling into accout, while another removes it for cargo space. And always, six or seven of the most popular features are considered, be it a sunroof for midsize sedans, fold-flat seats for minivans, or air-con for small sedans.
Because of each and every feature and spec, I can't just look at the car as a big picture. A good example is the Lincoln Town Car (well, not really, but I flipped to that page). A mid-level model adds seat, mirror, and pedal memory and heated seats to the mix. Since those are among the most-wanted features in the class, the Town Car Ultimate is now a different vehicle than the base Town Car Signature. It's my job to decide whether those additional features justify the $2840 price premium over the Signature.
There are several situations where uplevel models add no important features, so I will skip them, though it's rare. The most glaring example I always remember is the Mitsubishi Lancer O-Z Rally, which, at $16800, deletes a power sunroof from the Lancer LS, which starts $800 less. Oddly, the more expensive O-Z Rally adds absolutely nothing except arguably better looks due to an "aerodynamics package". Consequently, the Lancer O-Z Rally is a worse vehicle in every measurable sense of the term 'worse'.
The Ford StreetKa? I agree the 350Z is in the wrong group when the Ford StreetKa is thrown into the mix, but since we live in the United States, that vehicle does not exist. Consequently, the small convertible class is decided by the size of the vehicle, as its name should suggest. And the list (ordered by good-ness):
- Nissan 350Z Touring Roadster (169.4")
- Nissan 350Z Enthusiast Roadster (169.4")
- Honda S2000 (162.2")
- Mazda Miata (155.7")
- Mitsubishi Eclipse GTS Spyder (176.8")
- Mitsubishi Eclipse GT Spyder (176.8")
- Mazda Miata LS (155.7")
- Audi TT-225 Roadster (159.1")
- Audi TT V6 Roadster (159.1")
- BMW Z4 3.0i (161.1")
- Toyota MR2 (153.0")
- Mercedes SLK32 AMG (157.9")
- BMW Z4 2.5i (161.1")
- Volkswagen Beetle GLS 1.8T convertible (161.1")
- Mitsubishi Eclipse GS Spyder (176.8")
- Audi TT Roadster (159.1")
- Porsche Boxster (170.1")
- Porsche Boxster S (170.1")
- Mercedes SLK230 (157.9")
- Volkswagen Beetle GLS convertible (161.1")
- Mercedes SLK320 (157.9")
- Volkswagen Beetle GL convertible (161.1")
Now, that's 22 total vehicles. And while the 350Z is slightly on the high side of the class length, it's still shorter than vehicles which obviously compete in this class. Furthermore, each of the corporations producing each of these vehicles consider themselves in competition - so with marketing aim, the class is spot-on. Sometimes length-based exceptions have to be made (did you know the Jeep Grand Cherokee is the same length as the Saturn Vue?) but this isn't one of those times - the class is obvious.
The only possible exception to this would be the Mitsubishi Eclipse, but since it fits in so perfectly in the small coupe class, there's no sense altering it.
Agreed except for Mustang. Which is why midsize convertible is as follows:
- Ford Mustang Cobra convertible (183.2")
- Ford Mustang GT Deluxe convertible (183.2")
- Ford Mustang GT Premium convertible (183.2")
- Ford Mustang Premium convertible (183.2")
- Ford Mustang Deluxe convertible (183.2")
- Chrysler Sebring Touring convertible (193.7")
- Chrysler Sebring GTC (193.7")
- BMW M3 convertible (176.7")
- Ford Thunderbird (186.3")
- Chrysler Sebring Limited convertible (193.7")
- Volvo C70 2.3 (185.7")
- Chrysler Sebring convertible (193.7")
- Audi A4 3.0 Cabriolet (180.0")
- Saab 9-3 Arc convertible (182.5")
- BMW 330Ci convertible (176.7")
- Volvo C70 2.4 (185.7")
- Audi A4 1.8T Cabriolet (180.0")
- Mercedes CLK500 convertible (182.6")
- BMW 325Ci convertible (176.7")
- Mercedes CLK55 AMG convertible (182.6")
- Mercedes CLK320 convertible (182.6")
- Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet (174.5")
Once again, the class is obvious with the exception of that last one, but it's a motoring anomaly anyway since anyone buying it knows going in it's not the best value in the segment, whichever segment it's in.
It's a close race, but I prefer the 350Z slightly over the S2000. Of course, you hadn't known that I had the S2000 third, so you talked from your ass, but whatever. This sound like a "my car's better, my car's better" thing, and that's waaaay above you.
Either way, the S2000 handles better than the 350Z. That's it. 350Z Enthusiast Roadsters have WAY more features, way more horsepower, and way more quickness. The thing about the car magazines and Website journalists is that 1) they're not living with the car on a day-to-day basis, and 2) they overemphasize handling. Handling is great, and the 350Z obviously doesn't handle like the S2000. But to BUYERS, its strengths in other areas make up for this. The VAST majority of buyers in this segment are willing to sacrifice a little on handling to get back features, power, and acceleration - for practically the same price.
And now it sounds like I'm making the S2000 out as a bad car. I'm not. I LOVE the S2000. But I love the 350Z more. It's simply the better of the two vehicles unless "handling" is your one and only concern, in which case I'd gladly recommend an S2000. But again, for the vast majority of the buying public, handling is one of many concerns.
Victor Vance
It's a good car - I actually like it a lot. Nevertheless, the excuse here is that the MazdaSpeed Miata debuted rather late in the 2004 model year, after I had already driven the cars and crunched the numbers. If I ever get around to updating this, it'll be considered then, I promise!
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
M5Power
what about the Toyota Corrola XRS? my next door neighbour got one a year ago.
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
animateria
about the design...most of Chevrolets deisgns r pretty basic, kind of like European styling only more..."crestier" and a little edgier...they arent a whole lot into the radical designs and flared everythings...thats Chrysler's job!
Also, i read in a review (C&D i think) that it was like the most plain and boring car theyve ever driven. Moderate handling, old-lady acceleration...good-enough responsiveness...adequate power...its an A --> B car with a little extra pretty much. as for specs...the base model starts at $18,995 and the LT (top of the line) is $23,495. standard front engine, FWD, 4 door 5 passenger sedan...about 22/33mpg.base
2.2 Litre DOHC 16 Valve inline-4, 145hp 155lb-ft
LT
3.5 litre pushrod 12-valve V6 , 200hp 220lb-ft 4sp auto. decent bang for the buck. curb weight: 3150-3300lbs.
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
M5Power
The only thing i think i can agree with you there would be the murano. As for all chevrolets, GM's, Chryslers and Dodges...throw them out the window..i have no respect for american car companies and what theyre doing to the European and Japanese ones. Also, all that may come with leather, remote keyless entry blah blah blah, but the BMW is constructed with the highest quality in mind, and dont expect to see seems comming apart in 2 years. (ala Kia's).
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
is there any way to amalgamate all your posts into one after you realize you've just triple-posted? sry about that.
Ahh, I'm doing it anyway.
The Corolla XRS came out in late September as a 2005 model, not a year ago. Perhaps your neighbor has a Corolla S, which isn't particularly similar.
One thing it's easy to lose touch with on a forum like this is that those are the qualities a good 70% of America looks for when buying a car.
I guess you don't need to be told after all. This is just ****ing stupid. When you're old enough to actually drive, and then old enough to actually spend money, you'll realise what good alternatives cars with premium stuff and no premium brand can be. The Buick Rainier CXL V8 is just as good as any X5, ML-class, or MDX, but excepting stupid made-up classifications like "seems comming apart" you can't come up with a reason why any premium brands are better.
The Corolla XRS came out in late September as a 2005 model, not a year ago. Perhaps your neighbor has a Corolla S, which isn't particularly similar.
One thing it's easy to lose touch with on a forum like this is that those are the qualities a good 70% of America looks for when buying a car.
I guess you don't need to be told after all. This is just ****ing stupid. When you're old enough to actually drive, and then old enough to actually spend money, you'll realise what good alternatives cars with premium stuff and no premium brand can be. The Buick Rainier CXL V8 is just as good as any X5, ML-class, or MDX, but excepting stupid made-up classifications like "seems comming apart" you can't come up with a reason why any premium brands are better.
- 328
What about the '05 Acura RSX Type-S, I think it deserves something... And the '05 Subaru WRX STi as well, where do they belong? I'm just curious, no need to teach me anything. 
Yeah, but I haven't got any personal biases.
The other day, someone asked me what my favorite car is. I've long realized my problem is being unable to distinguish "favorite" from "best". I told them it was my 2004 car of the year, the Vue V6.
Criteria is set based on the features that buyers desire most, anyway, and the prices that manufacturers charge for those features.
The other day, someone asked me what my favorite car is. I've long realized my problem is being unable to distinguish "favorite" from "best". I told them it was my 2004 car of the year, the Vue V6.
Criteria is set based on the features that buyers desire most, anyway, and the prices that manufacturers charge for those features.
- 12,993
- USA! USA!
The buyers' opinions, then? So this is an opinionated thread?! I can't ****ing believe it.
Close it. Slice it up. Roll it into a ball. Cook it. Eat it. **** it out. Stare at it. Make it again.
Close it. Slice it up. Roll it into a ball. Cook it. Eat it. **** it out. Stare at it. Make it again.
- 4,805
Sushi?Klostrophobic
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
M5Power
It says "XRS" in red letters. My mom's friend bought a Kia. She hates it. Things r breaking, falling apart, not working, constant maintencance...a feeling of "cheapness" to it. And that "seams comming apart" is from her Kia where the seats are sewn. You have to look at over all reliability to you know. Pick up a "Consumer Reports" magazine. completely independant and it uses factual evidence. By the way, I'm old enough to drive. The minimum age in all of Alberta, Canada, to drive is 14. I'll be 16 in a couple months.
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
I knew he'd find that funny, inviable, incredibly biased, and not fact based. Why did I even try?
- 3,001
Shouldn't this be changed to 2005 models?
- 4,805
M5Power
Indeed it is killing ya. Wait can I tell the people here what you finals are?Similar threads
