The Carmagedonn Thread: FCA and "Consolidation"

[TheCracker]

Hmm. Take a pay cut and stay working.... or refuse and be out of a job.

I believe they are amending dictionaries as we speak with the above line to describe the saying 'To shoot one's self in the foot'

 

[Pupik]

Whew!

For a moment there, I thought the UAW was going to get their ego bruised and their stereotype reinforced.

I'm assuming it's a breach of contract, but is it actually possible for the automakers to hire non-union employees? Or does that violate state law? Maybe a bailout and absorption (read: death sentence) of the UAW is what's really needed for the future of US automakers.

 

[buickgnx88]

C'mon guys, get some Scabs in there already!

 

[Duke]

No matter what the UAW would have you believe, it is legal for the Wobbling 3 to hire non-union labor. However, in Michigan and other northern, union-dominated states, it would be virtually impossible for them to do it. The UAW would instantly shut down every US-maker plant in the country and riots would ensue. The scabs would have to live IN the factory with a National Guard perimeter around it.

 

[TheCracker]

Maybe a bailout and absorption (read: death sentence) of the UAW is what's really needed for the future of US automakers.

I'm seing unpleasant similarities between this and the whole British Leyland situation in the 70's. Bloody-minded and short sighted Unions, incoherent, badge-engineered product lines and a world-wide economic slump. I hope it works out better for you then it did for us. You'll end up with Panoz being your largest domestic car manufacturer if they don't sort this out.

 

[Joey D]

Wow, this is spoken like a true Michigan resident.

Yes, an auto industry failure will have a "ripple effect" nationwide. They make Chryslers in my home town.

What I think you're not understanding is the "tsunami effect" that a credit failure has on the entire economy - including the small subset of that known as the auto industry. If nobody can borrow money nobody can buy Detroit's cars.

Or houses. Or anything else that costs more than a few hundred dollars, assuming there are any retailers other than WalMart left to sell things.

Sorry for speaking like a Michigan resident. If you lived here maybe you would understand how bad it really is. I can't do anything about where I live and if you tell me to move I'm just going to laugh.

Everyone talks about how the loan is a bad thing, honestly I want to hear a suggestion that doesn't doom the place I live in. If you guys can come up with a better plan I would love to hear it but I'm wagering you can't.

** Look I don't like the UAW either, but I can see where they are coming from. You can't just show up one day and tell people you are going to cut their wages in half. That isn't going to do any good. All that's going to do is have thousands of people unable to cope with their living expenses and thus furthering the credit crisis. I agree they need to start making concessions but you can't honestly expect them to do it over night.

 

[YSSMAN]

Exactly what Bush is currently considering: a "Bridge" loan until the Democratic congress convenes.

My guess is that it'll happen over the weekend, but that may even be too soon. Depends on how Frankenstein (Paulson) gets to it.

I'm angry at both the UAW and the Senate, neither of them did their job to negotiate. If the UAW is dumb enough not to concede, facing bankruptcy, and likely losing all of their contracts against the automakers... Thats their problem. To be frank, thats signing your own death sentence. On the other hand, the shortsightedness of these Republican Senators is just as concerning as well. This should not be a partisan issue, at least in my opinion.

 

[Swift]

** Look I don't like the UAW either, but I can see where they are coming from. You can't just show up one day and tell people you are going to cut their wages in half. That isn't going to do any good. All that's going to do is have thousands of people unable to cope with their living expenses and thus furthering the credit crisis. I agree they need to start making concessions but you can't honestly expect them to do it over night.

We're giving them money overnight though.

 

[Joey D]

We're giving them money overnight though.

We gave the banks money overnight, we gave AIG money over night, what's the issue here? Also do you really think that the government will ever be paid back for giving AIG money? You are dreaming if you think so. At least with the auto companies it is a loan so if/when they become profitable again we can at least demand they pay back the money with interest.

Really all I see this as is the Republicans being uptight because the union has disliked them for so long. This is not the time to screw around with this crap, both sides need to swallow their pride and just get this done. Like I said, I don't agree with the UAW for the most part but I can understand their position fo once. I however cannot understand the Republicans, but I don't think I will ever understand them.

 

[Swift]

We gave the banks money overnight, we gave AIG money over night, what's the issue here? Also do you really think that the government will ever be paid back for giving AIG money? You are dreaming if you think so. At least with the auto companies it is a loan so if/when they become profitable again we can at least demand they pay back the money with interest.

Really all I see this as is the Republicans being uptight because the union has disliked them for so long. This is not the time to screw around with this crap, both sides need to swallow their pride and just get this done. Like I said, I don't agree with the UAW for the most part but I can understand their position fo once. I however cannot understand the Republicans, but I don't think I will ever understand them.

All I see is one of the main factors of the big 3 not being competitive not being addressed. Why would anyone loan money to a company with a proven faulty business model?

 

[Joey D]

All I see is one of the main factors of the big 3 not being competitive not being addressed. Why would anyone loan money to a company with a proven faulty business model?

So you are telling me the banks, AIG, the rest of the businesses that are loosing money do not have a faulty business model? For the record they are faulty and we gave them money. All the businesses are flawed, why do you think we are in this mess in the first place?

You sit here and tell me that we shouldn't loan them money but you are failing to offer me a better solution. Part of complaining about the problem is offering a solution to it. And if your solution is to let them go under then so be it, just don't complain when the market takes a huge dive.

 

[///M-Spec]

Sorry for speaking like a Michigan resident. If you lived here maybe you would understand how bad it really is. I can't do anything about where I live and if you tell me to move I'm just going to laugh.

African wildebeest migrate seasonally in order to find the grassy plains that will support them. If they do not, they will die of hunger. Their predators in turn, must migrate along with them because they must feed on them or perish. Fish migrate. Birds migrate. Almost any creature complicated enough to have a vertebrate and a brain naturally understands that it must find habitats that will sustain them, or die.

Are you telling me that as a member of the most successful and dominant species in the history of the world, that you can't do that?

Everyone talks about how the loan is a bad thing, honestly I want to hear a suggestion that doesn't doom the place I live in. If you guys can come up with a better plan I would love to hear it but I'm wagering you can't.

Not everyone. I think the loan is acceptable as long as the W3 ----and the UAW, makes it clear to Congress and the people of the United States, that it is committed to true change, not business as usual. It is clear to me now that the UAW is not interested in that. They want us to throw good money after bad.

If the W3 isn't interested in or isn't allowed to engage in real change, then IMO, they should be allowed to fail.

You ask for a solution, but there can be no real solution without concessions from the UAW. Giving them whatever they want is not a solution. It just feeds the problem.

It's a shame because I was really thinking about getting a CTS for the wife a few years down the road after the Audi's been paid off for a while. But I'm so throughly appalled by the UAW's behavior, I'm probably never going to buy a UAW assembled car just due to principle.

** Look I don't like the UAW either, but I can see where they are coming from. You can't just show up one day and tell people you are going to cut their wages in half. That isn't going to do any good. All that's going to do is have thousands of people unable to cope with their living expenses and thus furthering the credit crisis. I agree they need to start making concessions but you can't honestly expect them to do it over night.

If the article I posted is correct, the paycut would be in the $3 to $4 range. Where did you hear "half" from?

533,000 people lost their jobs in November. The UAW should actually be THRILLED TO DEATH that Congress was willing to loan their companies enough money so they could continue working. But instead, they've displayed nothing but a bottomless sense of entitlement. Screw them and the horse they rode in on.


And as I finish up this post, the Treasury Dept. is getting ready to play the Enabler and start writing checks. Whoo-hoo.


M

 

[Joey D]

African wildebeest migrate seasonally in order to find the grassy plains that will support them. If they do not, they will die of hunger. Their predators in turn, must migrate along with them because they must feed on them or perish. Fish migrate. Birds migrate. Almost creature complicated enough to have a vertebrate and a brain naturally understands that it must find habitats that will sustain them, or die.

Are you telling me that as a member of the most successful and dominant species in the history of the world, that you can't do that?

Considering animals do not have to have any sort of thing to offer in trade for their habitat I would wager it is quite different. Since the market dropped I no longer have the money I once did. Do I have enough to buy a modest home? Yes of course, but that would leave me with zero savings and almost nothing in reserve in case something unexpected happens such as car trouble, house trouble, etc.

I can't move out of the Detroit area because I do not have enough money to do so, it's that simple. And no I'm not going to live beyond my means because that is part of the problem with the housing industry. People thought they could afford more then they were able to. I don't want to be a statistic like that. Plus living at home is free.

Honestly I think I am doing the smart thing financially by staying put instead of taking a huge risk and going out on my own. It could pay off but it doesn't I'm screwed for life.

Not everyone. I think the loan is acceptable as long as the W3 ----and the UAW, makes it clear to Congress and the people of the United States, that it is committed to true change, not business as usual. It is clear to me now that the UAW is not interested in that. They want us to throw good money after bad.

If the W3 isn't interested in or isn't allowed to engage in real change, then IMO, they should be allowed to fail.

You ask for a solution, but there can be no real solution without concessions from the UAW. Giving them whatever they want is not a solution. It just feeds the problem.

I agree completely, they should be committed to change. I have said that Wagnor and his cronies should be fired for being incompetent fools. I've also said that concessions need to be made by the UAW as well but it will take time to do so. Remember the people who run GM are a small group and can easily be dealt with, the UAW employees are a huge group and will take more time.

The auto companies have submitted a plan and that it more then AIG or the banks did. My solution is to give them the money but monitor the heck out of it and if the waiver in the slightest pull the plug on it. This will ensure they are doing the right thing, plus if you get the idiots running the company out of there half your problem is solved.

Isn't this what the Car Czar is supposed to do though?

It's a shame because I was really thinking about getting a CTS for the wife a few years down the road after the Audi's been paid off for a while. But I'm so throughly appalled by the UAW's behavior, I'm probably never going to buy a UAW assembled car just due to principle.

I agree with that but I've already quit buying GM and it wasn't solely because of the UAW. I am not opposed to buying American though, when it comes time for me to look at a new vehicle in about 3 years I will highly consider a Ford as long as they keep going the way they are going.

If the article I posted is correct, the paycut would be in the $3 to $4 range. Where did you hear "half" from?

Based on people's opinions it sounds like they want the UAW salaries cut in half. I'll admit, I honestly have no clue what they are calling for.

 

[Duke]

** Look I don't like the UAW either, but I can see where they are coming from. You can't just show up one day and tell people you are going to cut their wages in half. That isn't going to do any good.

So how about showing up one day and telling them they're out of a job because the corporation is closing? Is that better? Nobody's talking about cutting wages in half, either.

Is it really that much better to get fired from a $35/hour job than it is to live with a $30/hour job?

 

[Slicks]

Considering animals do not have to have any sort of thing to offer in trade for their habitat I would wager it is quite different. Since the market dropped I no longer have the money I once did. Do I have enough to buy a modest home? Yes of course, but that would leave me with zero savings and almost nothing in reserve in case something unexpected happens such as car trouble, house trouble, etc.

I can't move out of the Detroit area because I do not have enough money to do so, it's that simple. And no I'm not going to live beyond my means because that is part of the problem with the housing industry. People thought they could afford more then they were able to. I don't want to be a statistic like that. Plus living at home is free.

Honestly I think I am doing the smart thing financially by staying put instead of taking a huge risk and going out on my own. It could pay off but it doesn't I'm screwed for life.

I agree with that but I've already quit buying GM and it wasn't solely because of the UAW. I am not opposed to buying American though, when it comes time for me to look at a new vehicle in about 3 years I will highly consider a Ford as long as they keep going the way they are going.

I see a discrepancy, here. You admit that you're financially worse-off than you have been previously.
But you state that a new car is still being considered a couple years down the road?

I have a suggestion:
RENT. Elsewhere.



As far as the UAW is concerned, Duke has summed it up nicely. $30/Hour is approximately $30/hour better than the alternative.

 

[Joey D]

I see a discrepancy, here. You admit that you're financially worse-off than you have been previously.
But you state that a new car is still being considered a couple years down the road?

I have a suggestion:
RENT. Elsewhere.

Um here is the issue with that, the Cooper's hold their value quite well so when I do go to get rid of it I will have not lost a ton of money. I don't know if I'll get a car in 3 years though, it's just a number I threw out there and a lot can happen between now and then. But three years from now I will have had the car 4 years and since it takes about a year for me to shop around and find what I want I'm not to worried about finances then.

And renting is the stupidest thing one can do, you pay a very high price per month and never actually own the place. A house around here rents for about $700-$900 per month, a house payment is close to that with a decent down payment.

 

[ND4SPD]

I just can't wait to drive my Dongfeng Corvette off the lot soon.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Whew!

For a moment there, I thought the UAW was going to get their ego bruised and their stereotype reinforced.

I'm assuming it's a breach of contract, but is it actually possible for the automakers to hire non-union employees? Or does that violate state law? Maybe a bailout and absorption (read: death sentence) of the UAW is what's really needed for the future of US automakers.

YES YES Thats exactly what the US Automakers must have to survive,Well that & cars that people actually want.

 

[Tornado]

Politicians are so short sighted they can't be be bothered to understand the ripple effect this will cause nation wide.

I'm amazed that anyone who is a proponent of government bailouts even dares to call politicians short-sighted when bailouts don't pass, even if it isn't the politician's fault that they don't. If anything, we should be pissed off that the politicians even entertained the idea of giving GM any money. Here's a quick question: How many billions of dollars did the U.K. government (or BMW, or Ford) have to throw at British Leyland/Rover/MG Rover until that company began turning profits? Hm, maybe we should ask the Chinese.
The rather funny part (ignoring your rather abrupt change of position on whether or not we will ever see the money again in a federal loan) is how you say we should hand them blank checks until thy make a slip-up, then take all of the money away. Saying that means that you are essentially asking them to fail sometime down the line; and that you want that failure to be all the more catastrophic.

So you are telling me the banks, AIG, the rest of the businesses that are loosing money do not have a faulty business model? For the record they are faulty and we gave them money. All the businesses are flawed, why do you think we are in this mess in the first place?

We gave them money because financial institutions are far more important than any manufacturing company ever would be, and no one would have been around to pick up the pieces if we let them all fail. GM is a lot more attractive of a purchase. Billions of dollars worth of factories and engineering prowess and the like won't simply go away if GM has to declare bankruptcy.
The fact of the matter is, if the financial market wasn't so shaky, and GM exploded like they are now, someone would have swooped in to start anew within weeks. Furthermore, the financial market won't be shaky forever.

And if your solution is to let them go under then so be it, just don't complain when the market takes a huge dive.

Then you sure as hell better not complain when GM is relocated to Shanghai. Based on the amount of money GM is pissing away each month, I'd be surprised if that took much longer than 5 years. Unless the entire company is completely restructured, nothing will be fixed. Nothing. Firing Wagoner and his cronies will do nothing. Replacing the entire board of directors will do nothing.
Since 1968 (arguably earlier than that), GM has made nothing but short-sighted decisions without any planning towards potential problems or shortfalls. 40 years of different managers and board members have made 40 years of bad business decisions, and one finally came up and bit them in the ass. They deserve nothing in the way of loans unless it comes with a clause to completely throw out the entire company management and start anew, because that is the only way they will be able to fix themselves. Its clearly a functional problem, not a managerial one. All bankruptcy would do is make it so we don't have to pay for the pleasure, and would most likely make the inevitable happen far quicker and much less painful.

And yes, before you ask, I'm singling out GM on purpose. Chrysler and Ford have shown in the past to be able to adapt and change to market conditions adeptly and intelligently, and have been doing so once again within the last year. GM has never been able to do so, and isn't doing so now either. Both of those companies' current foibles are the result of (for Ford) the credit crisis and (for Chrysler) and single instance of what essentially amounts to corporate sabotage. I'd be perfectly alright giving either Ford or Chrysler money (to the extent that I'm almost sad they won't get any), because at the very least they would know how to spend it. Ford doesn't even need the money, strictly speaking. But unless you were to give GM money under the pretext that they completely restructure the entire company, they don't deserve a penny, because even their bailout pleadings to Congress reek of the same idiocy that put them in this situation in the first place.

 

[Omnis]

Sorry for speaking like a Michigan resident. If you lived here maybe you would understand how bad it really is. I can't do anything about where I live and if you tell me to move I'm just going to laugh.

Everyone talks about how the loan is a bad thing, honestly I want to hear a suggestion that doesn't doom the place I live in. If you guys can come up with a better plan I would love to hear it but I'm wagering you can't.

Your state and the failing businesses in it should've been thinking of suggestions that wouldn't doom the place all along. You make it seem like if the government doesn't do something, your state will be doomed because of it. No. The institutions in your state have already doomed themselves. Blame them, don't reward them.

We gave the banks money overnight, we gave AIG money over night, what's the issue here?

Two wrongs don't make a right. I didn't "give" money to anyone; it was taken from me.

So, now, even after the Senate blocked the bill, it seems like Bush is going to ram his socialist hands up our butts yet again:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16523.html

Facing the potential bankruptcy of iconic American firms, President Bush on Friday abandoned his longstanding objection to using using the Wall Street bailout fund to help save G.M. and Chrysler.

A frustrated Republican congressional official said: "If only they had said this last week, we could have saved ourselves a full week."

Ten hours after the Senate rejected a separate lifeline for the automakers, White House Press Secretary Dana Perino said in a statement it would be "irresponsible" to let the companies crash. So she said Bush will "consider other options," including the $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program that Congress created for the Treasury Department in October.

"Under normal economic conditions we would prefer that markets determine the ultimate fate of private firms," Perino said in a statement. "However, given the current weakened state of the U.S. economy, we will consider other options if necessary – including use of the TARP program — to prevent a collapse of troubled automakers. A precipitous collapse of this industry would have a severe impact on our economy, and it would be irresponsible to further weaken and destabilize our economy at this time."

/facepalm

 

[Swift]

You sit here and tell me that we shouldn't loan them money but you are failing to offer me a better solution. Part of complaining about the problem is offering a solution to it. And if your solution is to let them go under then so be it, just don't complain when the market takes a huge dive.

LOL
did you see this on the last page?

For the record, I'm OK with the loan as long as it comes with logical restructuring of labor and other integral parts of the business.

 

[YSSMAN]

My guess is that if TARP money is used, a deal similar to AIG (and the like) will be brokered, giving the government partial ownership of the company to guarantee some kind of return for the taxpayers. I assume that will include some increased oversights as well. But, that's a bit hypothetical... GM and Chrysler =/= AIG and Citi.

Who saw how low oil prices were today? All I can say is wow.

 

[Omnis]

My guess is that if TARP money is used, a deal similar to AIG (and the like) will be brokered, giving the government partial ownership of the company to guarantee some kind of return for the taxpayers. I assume that will include some increased oversights as well. But, that's a bit hypothetical... GM and Chrysler =/= AIG and Citi.

Who saw how low oil prices were today? All I can say is wow.

But do you realize the ramifications of such White House action? The executive is actually overriding the Senate here. It's not a veto, either.

This proves that the Congress has absolutely no control over the executive. Checks and balances have been destroyed and we're dictator-ready.

 

[niky]

The money, from what I gather (though I'm not paying particularly hard attention) will be coming from a different place, but the Fed is balking at talk of this.

Here's an interesting account from a GM Insider from thetruthaboutcars.com . Very insightful piece:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/in...service-in-gm-dealers-since-1965/#more-185742

Inside GM: “I’ve been working in parts and service in GM dealers since 1965″

By Robert Farago
December 13, 2008 -

“Yes, a long time. I’ve seen GM do a lot of things. Water pumps - massive failure in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Broken motor mounts - when they failed the throttle would go wide open… a fun ride. Implementation of emission controls - the plugging of the vacuum lines to the EGR valves. IMHO this is where everything started going bad. GM cars began to have more driveability problems than ever before. Worse, problems became harder to diagnosis. We sold a lot of cars during the 70’s; some good, some not so good. The Chevy Vega was the worst. Then came the X cars and we lost all direction.

About 1982, I was talking to a GM rep. He said they expected a 30 percent major failure rate in that model year. I said, “You mean, if I have 1000 cars, 300 will need an engine or transmission?” He said yes, and I believed him. They knew they had huge quality problems, but viewed them as a cost of doing business.

There were terrible rust problems, worse on pickup trucks. Try and find an 83 on the road. Good luck. We had four cylinders (2.5) engine failure at lifter gallery: head gasket failures. 231 V6: timing chain failure. And I will never forget the GM V8 and V6 diesel engines– and not in a good way. The V8 required an overhaul about every 18 to 24 months.

Big money rigs would stick together. The V6 had more head problems than anything. Did you know if a shop rag is left on top of the piston of a V6 diesel and the engine fired up it looks like it is snowing inside the shop? True story.

Let’s not forget the GM metric thm 200; this underpowered transmission “powered” the Grand National. On the positive side, we had the bulletproof thm 400 (3sp) auto. Great trans! The thm 350 was also very reliable.

I did love the Buick Grand National and the GMC Typhoon. I’m not going to say they were reliable, but wow! Were they fassssssssssst.

Then came the mid-80’s. Talk about losing your way! We had transmissions that would not shift; when you take them apart, you couldn’t find any viable failure. The reps told of being in restaurants wearing the GM lapel pin and asked if they worked for General Motors. They’d respond that they worked for General Mills.

This was the time of the [Pontiac] Fiero. I considered it a modern-day Corvair; it leaked everywhere and would catch fire and GM did not know why.

The mid-80’s brought in electronic repair orders and the storing of repair histories. Most of the time, you still [to this day] had to keep a paper file on hand.

The 80’s also brought the famous “customer satisfaction index,” on which we are all rated and live and die by. They’ve revised it from time to time, but they always ask the wrong questions or make it too long or too confusing. And GM sends them all back to the dealer. I’m not sure if all they do with them is tabulate the score; I don’t think anyone at GM reads them. They want the dealer to handle everything.

I’ve worked in dealers with a poor score and ones with a very high score. It’s very hard to satisfy a customer that was stuffed into the car and can’t afford it or we can’t fix it… something that happened a lot during the 80’s. Not so much any more do we hear “the car is commercially acceptable” or “GM is aware of the problem and engineering is working on a fix”

The came the 90’s, and paint would blow off of your GM carwhile driving down the road. GMC had trucks that ran on natural gas; we could not fix them. Who can forget the 700r4 transmission? They lost the sun shell and then wouldn’t move. No reverse. Nothing.

These days, we have some very good and reliable vehicles. We still fix cars, but we don’t have the major failures that we had in the past. I feel that GM has a future– if we can get past this problem they are facing. How to do it? I don’t know.

And through all these years, one thing has remained constant: we still work on leaks, squeaks and rattles. These three complaints have remained consistent.

I’ve always worked for GM dealers. I’ve never owned any other vehicles but GM. I’ve driven many types of other cars and see things on them that show up on GM cars about 5 years later. GM is always a day late and a dollar short.

This business has been good to me. I am not rich but have gotten by.

Do I think they should be bailed out? I’ve pondered this for weeks. My job depends on GM being viable. Part of me says help them out. But part of me says the marketplace must find it’s own level. I still don’t know. I do know no one from Congress or GM has asked me.”

 

[buickgnx88]

The reps told of being in restaurants wearing the GM lapel pin and asked if they worked for General Motors. They’d respond that they worked for General Mills.

 

[Tornado]

 

[YSSMAN]

Its The End of the World As We Know It...​

What a strange, strange news day on who's doing what because of all the money shortages. Lets start domestically, shall we?

Toyota Halts Development at Mississippi Site

Remember that story about Toyota building Priuses in the US? Well, thats the plant that was going to do it. Ouch.

Suzuki is leaving the WRC

Only after one year? Ouch again.

Subaru May Be Pulling out of WRC Too...

I'm really, honestly surprised how quickly these guys are jumping ship in every sport. Porsche and Audi are leaving ALMS, it seems like its only a matter of time before the Domestic guys do something odd with NASCAR or [insert sport here]. Crazy times.

=====

Fiat SpA and Peugeot/Citroen to Merge?​

Well, thats what Reuters is saying. NPR talked about it shortly this morning as well.

Hmmm. I'm not opposed to it.

 

[Philly]

I have a feeling that we're going to be seeing a few dead years in the motorsports department if the economy keeps on tanking.

And does a PSA/FIAT merger mean that we could be seeing some of their products over here? They'd probably do pretty well with the market shifting more towards fuel efficient cars.

 

[Tornado]

What would the respective governments say? Especially so soon after the Merger of Equals?

 

[RACECAR]

Its The End of the World As We Know It...​

What a strange, strange news day on who's doing what because of all the money shortages. Lets start domestically, shall we?

Toyota Halts Development at Mississippi Site

Remember that story about Toyota building Priuses in the US? Well, thats the plant that was going to do it. Ouch.

Suzuki is leaving the WRC

Only after one year? Ouch again.

Subaru May Be Pulling out of WRC Too...

I'm really, honestly surprised how quickly these guys are jumping ship in every sport. Porsche and Audi are leaving ALMS, it seems like its only a matter of time before the Domestic guys do something odd with NASCAR or [insert sport here]. Crazy times.

=====

Fiat SpA and Peugeot/Citroen to Merge?​

Well, thats what Reuters is saying. NPR talked about it shortly this morning as well.

Hmmm. I'm not opposed to it.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised and am actually waiting for it, Not because I want to but because I expect it to happen the way they are going. Dodge may be the first since they've already dropped the trucks, then GM will drop out, then finally after continuing a little longer, Ford will then follow. As for the merger between Fiat and Peugeot/Citroen, thats interesting. Gotta wonder what'll happen with their on-track plans and commitments.