The cartoony approach vs the photojournalism approach...

[kanjifreak]

I've said it before, as a professional photographer, I am delighted to use the photomode. It is incredibly well done for a video game, that is.

The problem comes when all the "spectacular" angles that relate much more to video stills from "TV" (rendered) coverage try to pretend to be a photograph. That is not cool at all, but maybe I'm the only one complaining about it.

The cartoony approach from miraculous, unrealistic photography angles:

To get that kind of shot you will need a wide angle lens and the camera should be positioned really close to the car. Obviously that is just impossible in real life, by the time you have that framing with the wide angle lens the car would have just ran into the camera.

Now the photojournalism approach, almost tricking people as "the pic shot at the race..."

That shot is more logical, with a telephoto lens you can actually get a shot like that pretty easily.

Polyphony Digital is really cool, but their "supernatural and spectacular" issues annoy me. (Let alone the X1 pantomime.)

The Real Driving Simulator in most cases is not even close to a real photographic experience. It is fun, just that. But yeah, they got apertures, shutter speeds, white balance, exposure lock, exposure compensation, focal lengths, filters, you name it...

Oh and the cherry on the cake is that the framing system is sort of "rangefinder" (e.g. Leica). Lol, rangefinders with auto focus, they just made my day...

The contradictions of the Japanese, always aiming for reality and fantasy in the mix.

 

[Northstar]

Great thing is that you aren't forced to do it either way.

If you prefer "cartoony" photos than you can take those, if you like "pro" photos you can take those. Personally, I take video game photos, because it's a video game and you're allowed to do things you can't actually do in real life, which is the whole point of a video game.

 

[kanjifreak]

Great thing is that you aren't forced to do it either way.

If you prefer "cartoony" photos than you can take those, if you like "pro" photos you can take those. Personally, I take video game photos, because it's a video game and you're allowed to do things you can't actually do in real life, which is the whole point of a video game.

I'm totally with you Justin, I'm only evidencing the contradictions of the programmer, always mixing fantasy in a "simulator".

 

[peter_vod69]

You are a professional photographer and you think you couldn't get a shot like the top one in real life?

Right...

 

[kanjifreak]

You are a professional photographer and you think you couldn't get a shot like the top one in real life?

Right...

My God... You can understand English right?

Here goes again:

"To get that kind of shot you will need a wide angle lens and the camera should be positioned really close to the car. Obviously that is just impossible in real life, by the time you have that framing with the wide angle lens the car would have just ran into the camera."

The car is moving in a race dude, it is not sitting there for you to shoot.

 

[McLaren]

Totally impossible, right?

 

[kanjifreak]

Totally impossible, right?

LOL!!!

Please don't play the smart guy...

Well I'm not going to educate everybody...

I just love video game dudes!!!

They are always "demonstrating" stuff... As if the conditions were the same, my God, McLaren, you just made me laugh real hard.

That post by McLaren will be just epic...

I'll need to share it with fellow photographers... I am your fan from now on!!!

: )

: )

: )

 

[Grand Prix]

I could see why you think the F1 photo could be unrealistic; no one would even let you step over the guardrail to take such a shot. If it was a rally or motocross photo though, it would be quite plausible. Dangerous, but possible.

If they really cared, they would make a relationship between exposure, aperture and shutter speed, but they didn't. As a result we can create some really interesting and creative shots we can't normally do in real life. Thinking outside the box, so to speak.

The game allows us to drive supercars and racecars we couldn't drive in real life; why not take photos we can't take in real life?

 

[Terronium-12]

Is there a point to this thread?

Is what I'd like to know...

 

[kanjifreak]

It doesn't matter if you edit your post McLaren, just got it saved on file. My God, this is so going to the net...

 

[Northstar]

It doesn't matter if you edit your post McLaren, just got it saved on file. My God, this is so going to the net...

Do you want to be a member here?

If so, you should change the attitude.

 

[kanjifreak]

I could see why you think the F1 photo could be unrealistic; no one would even let you step over the guardrail to take such a shot. If it was a rally or motocross photo though, it would be quite plausible. Dangerous, but possible.

If they really cared, they would make a relationship between exposure, aperture and shutter speed, but they didn't. As a result we can create some really interesting and creative shots we can't normally do in real life. Thinking outside the box, so to speak.

The game allows us to drive supercars and racecars we couldn't drive in real life; why not take photos we can't take in rel life?

I'm totally with you man, I'm just evidencing the annoying contradictions of Polyphony Digital. Fantasy in simulation... Pretty complex concept...

Do you want to be a member here?

If so, you should change the attitude.

So I'm not entitled to defend myself from a member's stupid asseverating rant?

 

[Northstar]

So I'm not entitled to defend myself from a member's stupid asseverating rant?

You can defend yourself, what you cannot do is insult them the way you have.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I fail to see what the big deal is about McLaren's post. Yes, we know GT offers quite a lot of things in Photomode that aren't possible in real life. This is not news.

Even if he does edit his post... the good thing is, he knows how. You don't need to triple post, so that can come to an end now.

(EDIT)

So I'm not entitled to defend myself from a member's stupid asseverating rant?

Hmmm...

Totally impossible, right?

Yeah, I don't see a rant.

 

[niky]

Not outright "impossible", but completely unrealistic.

It's an issue that crops up in movies... especially with the advent of computer generated special effects. Directors like to show off the freedom that computer graphics give them by composing impossible shots, with pans and weaves that aren't possible in real life. And yet, the most impressive use of CGI in movies is when it's used seamlessly with traditional movie-making. Case in point: Jurassic Park. While many newer movies are painfully, obviously "faked", many of Jurassic Park's effects still hold up to scrutiny, thanks to clever use of traditional camera angles and filming styles, which fool the user into thinking "this is real."

BUT: There is a time and place for unrealistic shots. Movies like TRON, for instance... or Avatar. Where suspension of disbelief gives way to a pervading hyper-realism.

As an amateur photographer, and brother to one who does photography professionally, I am amazed by the incredible freedom GT5's photomode gives us. There are some shots you can do in GT5 that would be impossible to do in real life, not only in terms of camera position, but also in how you can mix shutter speeds with apertures... It's a fascinating sandbox to play in, and it's fun.

In the end, how well a picture plays out depends on the eye of the shooter more than anything else. Even with the idiot-proof super-camera in GT5, I've seen some really horrid shots, but quite a few fascinating ones...

You're given a photo-mode with "GodMode" enabled. While it's nice to play realistic with it, it's also nice to stretch the limits of the sandbox every once in a while...

 

[Terronium-12]

Dude, stop double posting. Also, you do realize the only person ranting here to any capacity is you, right?

You're complaining about a video game camera for crying out loud.

EDIT: Wow. I was incredi-tree'd.

 

[TB]

maybe I'm the only one complaining about it.

It certainly looks like that is the case.

As for your "cartoony" shot, during an actual race, attaching a camera rig to an F1 would obviously never happen. That's why they have photo shoots...

Now let the people get back to taking shots however they please, not the way you think they should be taken.

 

[kanjifreak]

My God, four mods!

Thank you all for your posts. Please let me put clear that:

1.- I love GT as much as you guys do.
2.- I'm not telling people how to take a shot.
3.- I'm evidencing the contradictions of PD, mixing fantasy in a so called simulator.

The intentions of my posts are always the same:

Try to contribute with logical stuff to make GT better by trying to eliminate the contradictions on it.

 

[mazda787]

My God, four mods!

Thank you all for your posts. Please let me put clear that:

1.- I love GT as much as you guys do.
2.- I'm not telling people how to take a shot.
3.- I'm evidencing the contradictions of PD, mixing fantasy in a so called simulator.

The intentions of my posts are always the same:

Try to contribute with logical stuff to make GT better by trying to eliminate the contradictions on it.

The driving is the simulation part, everything else is a fantasy.

 

[Grand Prix]

The driving is the simulation part, everything else is a fantasy.

... And HOW!

 

[kanjifreak]

The driving is the simulation part, everything else is a fantasy.

I don't want to go through that again... You consider driving an X1, a Nike car, and other great inventions not fantasy?

... And HOW!

That is the best pic dude! That paint on the car is just out of this world! Let alone the power of the "wagen" to drift like that!

 

[niky]

Try to contribute with logical stuff to make GT better by trying to eliminate the contradictions on it.

Of those, only one is moderating. The rest of us have merely responded to the discussion at hand. An interesting discussion.

I see no contradiction in a fantasy simulator having a fantasy camera. Heck, I think some people would burst a vein if told they had to buy several lenses to get different effects in Photomode.

In the end, it's just a game. With a camera. A completely unrealistic camera, where everything is always perfectly exposed. That part is the one that grates more than being able to get within several feet of a vehicle moving at over 100 miles an hour right after miraculously freezing time.

 

[kanjifreak]

Of those, only one is moderating. The rest of us have merely responded to the discussion at hand. An interesting discussion.

I see no contradiction in a fantasy simulator having a fantasy camera. Heck, I think some people would burst a vein if told they had to buy several lenses to get different effects in Photomode.

In the end, it's just a game. With a camera. A completely unrealistic camera, where everything is always perfectly exposed. That part is the one that grates more than being able to get within several feet of a vehicle moving at over 100 miles an hour right after miraculously freezing time.

Buying camera gear for the shots would be an awesome idea! I guess I'm pretty much alone on that one

Now that you mentioned the exposure issue, if we wanted to justify the perfect exposure always, we could just come up with the Automatic ISO shown on the screen. Given the ISO is also fantastically broad, then the exposures will most likely be good most of the time.

I guess I just got too freak about the photomode. Mr. Yamauchi is generally cool and has great ideas, he just needs better specialized research.

 

[ay91]

LOL!!!

Please don't play the smart guy...

Well I'm not going to educate everybody...

Please, educate me. Because from what I see he just proved you wrong.

 

[akira12ger]

Not outright "impossible", but completely unrealistic.

It's an issue that crops up in movies... especially with the advent of computer generated special effects. Directors like to show off the freedom that computer graphics give them by composing impossible shots, with pans and weaves that aren't possible in real life. And yet, the most impressive use of CGI in movies is when it's used seamlessly with traditional movie-making. Case in point: Jurassic Park. While many newer movies are painfully, obviously "faked", many of Jurassic Park's effects still hold up to scrutiny, thanks to clever use of traditional camera angles and filming styles, which fool the user into thinking "this is real."

BUT: There is a time and place for unrealistic shots. Movies like TRON, for instance... or Avatar. Where suspension of disbelief gives way to a pervading hyper-realism.

As an amateur photographer, and brother to one who does photography professionally, I am amazed by the incredible freedom GT5's photomode gives us. There are some shots you can do in GT5 that would be impossible to do in real life, not only in terms of camera position, but also in how you can mix shutter speeds with apertures... It's a fascinating sandbox to play in, and it's fun.

In the end, how well a picture plays out depends on the eye of the shooter more than anything else. Even with the idiot-proof super-camera in GT5, I've seen some really horrid shots, but quite a few fascinating ones...

You're given a photo-mode with "GodMode" enabled. While it's nice to play realistic with it, it's also nice to stretch the limits of the sandbox every once in a while...

i second that. don't forget. it is a videogame!!!

 

[kanjifreak]

Please, educate me. Because from what I see he just proved you wrong.

LOL!!! That comment was just beyond reality!!!

 

[niky]

Buying camera gear for the shots would be an awesome idea! I guess I'm pretty much alone on that one

Now that you mentioned the exposure issue, if we wanted to justify the perfect exposure always, we could just come up with the Automatic ISO shown on the screen. Given the ISO is also fantastically broad, then the exposures will most likely be good most of the time.

I guess I just got too freak about the photomode. Mr. Yamauchi is generally cool and has great ideas, he just needs better specialized research.

I, for one, will be tickled pink if we could go from "point and shoot" on one end of the scale to having an 18 megapixel full-frame DSLR with an 18-200 Telephoto or even a Hasselblad.

Or they could even give us mods and patches with retro-cams and Polaroids, to spice things up.

Or, even better... simulate the GoPro and allow players to attach small video cameras to parts of the body work before a race, to record them from different angles. And then simulate the horrific sound reproduction of the GoPro as well.

Ah well... someday... someday...

 

[McLaren]

You're the one who said the Formula 1 shot was impossible because the camera would be run over by the car.

To get that kind of shot you will need a wide angle lens and the camera should be positioned really close to the car. Obviously that is just impossible in real life, by the time you have that framing with the wide angle lens the car would have just ran into the camera.

It seems that you have never heard of a rig setup before. Otherwise, it is very possible in real life to attempt at re-creating that shot you posted.

 

[kanjifreak]

You're the one who said the Formula 1 shot was impossible because the camera would be run over by the car.


It seems that you have never heard of a rig setup before. Otherwise, it is very possible in real life to attempt at re-creating that shot you posted.

Oh yes, top stuff dude, just cleaned your name...

My God...

Just a humble advise: Never talk about what you can't. Especially, when talking with people that do know about the matter.

An F1 car at full race speed is not even close to the one in your pic which could have been shot at 20 miles per hour if you know your shutter speeds (now, please don't reply saying: I did it at Xmph).

Yeah, a rig for shooting PHOTOGRAPHICALLY with a 28 mm lens an F1 car at race speed, yeah, "totally plausible", (my God, I am beginning to doubt if you are naive and not just plain foolish.)

That shoot (mine) would require the camera at a distance of approximately 1 meter from the car. LOL!!! Totally plausible with a rig under that conditions with an F1 car racing straight at you in a FRONTAL angle.

Well yes, if you hire some top notch Hollywood guys, they'll figure out how to simulate it with CINEMATIC RESOURCES, not with PHOTOGRAPHY!!! (Of course you could also simulate the shot with deep retouching too with the car standing still and setting all the elements on the track or with a telephoto and then distort in post processing to emulate the close wide angle feel (which is really time consuming and complicated, but it is not the case, this is a car in the middle of a RACE shot with a close range wide angle.)

Oh, and if a photographer/camera can focus at that distance from the car (one meter) at that speed, then God is indeed among us. And if you want to keep on finding stuff to debate, no, the Ai Servo won't work to track the subject at that distance/speed from the camera. And if it did in an extremely remote case, the camera would just be pulverized by the car, unless you come up with some Galactic Stunt from the movies you most certainly watch to get the camera out of the way before getting smashed.

My God, the deeper they delve, the dirtier they come out...

Serioulsy, if you are a racing fan, haven't you seen how PHOTOGRAPHERS shoot the cars in the middle of a RACE?

I can now anticipate your reply (if there is one): "Oh, I was talking about cinematic resources on road cars and slow or medium speed photography with a slightly right angled framing with a wide angle (like in my pic), not F1 cars and super high speed subjects captured at close range wide angle frontal framed photography (which is the effect shown on your first pic, and which is impossible in real life under THOSE conditions)."

Just helped you a bit, eh... : )

Can we conclude the lecture now asserting the impossibility of my shot in real life photography?

P.S. Your pic has some funny distortion and movement, kind of "warp, motion blur", you never know nowadays... : )

 

[kanjifreak]

I, for one, will be tickled pink if we could go from "point and shoot" on one end of the scale to having an 18 megapixel full-frame DSLR with an 18-200 Telephoto or even a Hasselblad.

Or they could even give us mods and patches with retro-cams and Polaroids, to spice things up.

Or, even better... simulate the GoPro and allow players to attach small video cameras to parts of the body work before a race, to record them from different angles. And then simulate the horrific sound reproduction of the GoPro as well.

Ah well... someday... someday...

Now we are talking... GT9 might give us a lot of additional joy, dude.