The Earth is Flat?

[Spurgy 777]

So if that's a Flat Earthist argument, it's down to them not understanding photography.

It seems neither do I as I got it the wrong way round.

 

[Famine]

It seems neither do I as I got it the wrong way round.

True enough But then the point of a wide-angle lens is to make a small area around the focal point seem big, and the large area away from the focal point seem small. Basically anyone who looks at that and says North America is the wrong size so the image is fake (as are all images of the Earth) is the same sort of person who'd look at this and deny that dogs are real:

​

Interestingly, both photographs are impossible according to Flat Earthists - neither is a single image, and both are composited from other images captured while the spacecraft were orbiting the planet. MODIS shot pictures over thousands of orbits for over a year, while Suomi NPP shot pictures over a few hours and a few dozen orbits.

Aside from that, it's just not understanding that different spacecraft have different cameras. The 2001-2 image was intended to have as little distortion as possible so that the image showed roughly half the planet in any one shot. The 2012 one was shot with what amounts to a fisheye lens, purposefully to focus on North America. It doesn't even show an entire hemisphere. In fact if you know what the angular distortion is, you can photoshop it over the top of the 2001-2 image and see just how little of the planet it's actually capturing.

Edit: In fact I just found another image also shot with Suomi NPP's VIIRS sensor but without the near-side projection. Amazingly, once resized to fit the size of the planet from the 2001-2 MODIS shot, the continents fill exactly the same amount of planet. The shock of it.

 

[Pillo-san]

Quote me.

I don't know about Moon holidays, but then I didn't say I did. I said that flying cars have been around since at least 1946. Which they have.

Commercial production flying cars... not yet. Although Zhejiang Geely - the owners of Lotus and Volvo - has just bought flying car manufacturer Terrafugia, with a view to bringing its TF-X to market by 2019.


Interesting how you demand evidence of flying cars from me, but won't go outside to test, in five minutes, whether the Earth is flat or not and how far away the Sun is...

Then so was @homeforsummer. It's perspective, distance and projection.

In those shots, the first is slightly closer to Earth than the second.

The first is a normalised composite from MODIS, shot in 2001-2, at roughly 700km. It's a few million images all shot at the same altitude, composited into one. The second is a near-sided projection (the focal point is between the camera and the surface, providing a very wide-angle) of literally just North America, shot by Suomi NPP over a few passes in 2012, at roughly 800km.

So if that's a Flat Earthist argument, it's down to them not understanding photography.

A flying car you describe is basically just a plane, that has nothing to do with a flying car ala back to the future. but I like your take about this that I just threw in and you actually are focusing on that? The org claim about the earth is that we had basically no real pics of earth bedside the org blue marble and a pic in 2015. And the pictures that are on the net are composites that are not even taken in one shot to provide for a true representation of our planet. I remember when the redbul skyjump was in the news and everyone said, look how round the earth just because of the wide angle lenses but the one from the inside showed a flat horizon even up there.

one more thing I think is interesting is when people are taking the blue marble pic and adjusting the levels of it you get a nice square around the earth. If the pic was not tempered with than this would not be like that. That is why people think Nasa and such space agencies and institutions are not to be trusted as everything seems not what it seems to be.

Like I said, if we could have made space travels a reality we would have done it ages ago, unless there is something else preventing us form going there such as hostile aliens or what ever who knows But I know what I my mantra is, and it is dont believe anyone if the cant show it to you

 

[Famine]

A flying car you describe is basically just a plane, that has nothing to do with a flying car ala back to the future.

So... a flying car isn't a flying car unless it can slowly levitate into the air using some kind of anti-gravity technology apparently housed in the wheel hubs? That's odd as you didn't say anything about that originally - just that Flat Earth somehow allows you to not accept flying cars in science magazines at face value:

Rigth now fe is something that I use as a tool to not believe in everything I read in sciences magazines. Instead of saying, -this sounds cool. Now I am saying, -meh what more crap are they gonna say next without actually showing any progress, like flying cars, which takes us the earths orbit or a weekend on a hotel on the moon by 2030 or everything is a scam.

Flying cars have existed since at least 1946, possibly earlier. A major Chinese company has just invested in a flying car manufacturer that looks set to bring a car to market in under 18 months. That's showing progress, but apparently that's now not quite flying in the right way for you, or something.

Did anyone else hear the goalposts being moved?

And the pictures that are on the net are composites that are not even taken in one shot to provide for a true representation of our planet. I remember when the redbul skyjump was in the news and everyone said, look how round the earth just because of the wide angle lenses but the one from the inside showed a flat horizon even up there.

one more thing I think is interesting is when people are taking the blue marble pic and adjusting the levels of it you get a nice square around the earth. If the pic was not tempered with than this would not be like that. That is why people think Nasa and such space agencies and institutions are not to be trusted as everything seems not what it seems to be.

Yeah, so you don't understand how photography works either then.

Do you believe in dogs?

 

[TJ13]

Can we just make a hole in the ground and see where it comes out?
Yes there maybe some magma to deal with but I am sure we have the technology to handle.

 

[Pillo-san]

So... a flying car isn't a flying car unless it can slowly levitate into the air using some kind of anti-gravity technology apparently housed in the wheel hubs? That's odd as you didn't say anything about that originally - just that Flat Earth somehow allows you to not accept flying cars in science magazines at face value:

Flying cars have existed since at least 1946, possibly earlier. A major Chinese company has just invested in a flying car manufacturer that looks set to bring a car to market in under 18 months. That's showing progress, but apparently that's now not quite flying in the right way for you, or something.

Did anyone else hear the goalposts being moved?

Yeah, so you don't understand how photography works either then.

Do you believe in dogs?

haha omg, what are you about? I just tested to see if you would start to argue about flying cars because it came from me and you took it and swallowed it whole. I am not moving goal post what so ever, I am just clarifying what FE crowd uses in their arguments and I do share some of the oddities, there is lots of thing that they can make an argument about. As this is a thread about FE and I have shared what I think about FE and tried to convey what true flat earthers believe in, you try to make strange personal attacks...

Like I said before, there is much strangeness and oddities that accepted institution dont even want to touch as it would mean that would break the accepted world view, this is true now and has been in the past, so what so different about FE. Like I said, how many have actually seen the world itself?

Where is my holiday on either the moon or at least in the orbit, it is about damn time i thing I look into many stuff that can be considered scientific conspiracies, not only FE but sharing that I like FE triggers you like you are going to war.

I find it really strange that people gets so upset about the FE stuff, let FE people be. IF they are making FE videos so what, are you so unsure about where you stand that you someday may fall into the FE camp?

 

[TenEightyOne]

there is many strange stuff that is a mystery than accepted institution dont even want to touch as it would mean that would break the accepted world view

You keep saying that but, when pushed, you don't actually seem to know what any of it is.

haha omg

Quite.

 

[TexRex]

So if that's a Flat Earthist argument, it's down to them not understanding photography.

Sure they do; having your picture taken steals your soul.

 

[Pillo-san]

You keep saying that but, when pushed, you don't actually seem to know what any of it is.



Quite.

What do you mean by: you dont actually seem to know what any of it is?

I have been bombarded by replies so please explain what you mean.

 

[TexRex]

What is the flat-earthers' take on the tides?

 

[TenEightyOne]

What do you mean by: you dont actually seem to know what any of it is?

I have been bombarded by replies so please explain what you mean.

You said "there is many strange stuff that is a mystery than accepted institution dont even want to touch as it would mean that would break the accepted world view". Like what?

What is the flat-earthers' take on the tides?

Aliens.

 

[Pillo-san]

You said "there is many strange stuff that is a mystery than accepted institution dont even want to touch as it would mean that would break the accepted world view". Like what?

If you actually have read my posts then you would have seen what I meant. just browse a couple of page back

Oh. one is simple and that is that the moon is actually controlling it if I remember coretly, but the second is that there is a whirpool in the middle of the world that is responsible for that, but then it is more biblical so to speak.

 

[TexRex]

Aliens.

Holy hole in a donut...I don't know whether that's a joke or not.

 

[Famine]

haha omg, what are you about? I just tested to see if you would start to argue about flying cars because it came from me and you took it and swallowed it whole. I am not moving goal post what so ever

You said:

Rigth now fe is something that I use as a tool to not believe in everything I read in sciences magazines. Instead of saying, -this sounds cool. Now I am saying, -meh what more crap are they gonna say next without actually showing any progress, like flying cars, which takes us the earths orbit or a weekend on a hotel on the moon by 2030 or everything is a scam.

Since flying cars have demonstrably shown progress - to the point where a giant Chinese car manufacturer is buying up a flying car manufacturer - your statement is wrong.

You then decided that it's not a flying car if it's not a hovering Back to the Future car. That's called "moving the goalposts" - after your initial conditions were proven wrong, you changed the conditions and pretended they had not changed.

As this is a thread about FE and I have shared what I think about FE and tried to convey what true flat earther believe in you try to make strange personal attacks.

Quote me.

Still waiting you to quote me from your earlier claim that I said I was "into" FE. Which I didn't.

Like I said before, there is many strange stuff that is a mystery than accepted institution dont even want to touch as it would mean that would break the accepted world view

And again, that means ignoring that the scientific method even exists...

I look into many stuff that can be considered scientific conspiracies, not only FE but sharing that I like FE triggers you like you are going to war.

Mmmhmm. Remember way back at the start of this - and in the previous thread - where I said you were taking all criticisms of Flat Earthism way too personally. That.


I can't wait to see what the next part of the Gish Gallop will be.

 

[Pillo-san]

You said:

Since flying cars have demonstrably shown progress - to the point where a giant Chinese car manufacturer is buying up a flying car manufacturer - your statement is wrong.

You then decided that it's not a flying car if it's not a hovering Back to the Future car. That's called "moving the goalposts" - after your initial conditions were proven wrong, you changed the conditions and pretended they had not changed.

Quote me.

Still waiting you to quote me from your earlier claim that I said I was "into" FE. Which I didn't.

And again, that means ignoring that the scientific method even exists...

Mmmhmm. Remember way back at the start of this - and in the previous thread - where I said you were taking all criticisms of Flat Earthism way too personally. That.


I can't wait to see what the next part of the Gish Gallop will be.

Omg, a flying car like proper one, not a airplane that is adapted for highway use too. Have you seen those super small airplanes? They can be tiny winy man, just drive out on the road with one of those and you have a car if you go by your standard of how a flying car is supposed to be. I naturally mean a flying car that has no need of wings or propellers but more akin to Back To The Future type of cars. It was far fetched I know but you took it and started to go wild with it just because...

Again you dont need to ignore any scientific methods at all, for a flat earth to work. Just ignore fantastical ones that from what have been up to date of no beneficial use to us.

Everything like electro-magnetism and such seems to still work in what they describe a fe world.

You are making it personal, as are many others here. Not helping that you dont know what you are getting yourself into and you try to argue about something you dont seem to fully understand or know about. FE is outlandish sure, but it does not give you the right to question my sanity and if how I come to certain assertions or not, if I am using any scientifically methods or not and so on.

You think that I cant do both, if you think that ignoring some of science is to be ignoring the scientific method? Trust me I am just like many of you here but I simply like FE and other crap like that too. Basically you try to point a finger at me and laugh, which is fine but it will eventually bee seen in my answers and when I do that you complain that I insult people when you are insulting me with your strange and odd questions about how I can like this FE stuff.

You try to reply to people that think they know what FE is and you immediately notices that they dont have looked into this topic for more than 1 minute, and yet you have to try and give as good answers as you possibly can

 

[Northstar]

Omg, a flying car like proper one, not a airplane that is adapted for highway use too. Have you seen those super small airplanes? They can be tiny winy man, just drive out on the road with one of those and you have a car if you go by your standard of how a flying car is supposed to be. I naturally mean a flying car that has no need of wings or propellers but more akin to Back To The Future type of cars. It was far fetched I know but you took it and started to go wild with it just because...

Again you dont need to ignore any scientific methods at all, for a flat earth to work. Just ignore fantastical ones that from what have been up to date of no beneficial use to us.

Everything like electro-magnetism and such seems to still work in what they describe a fe world.

You are making it personal, as are many others here. Not helping that you dont know what you are getting yourself into and you try to argue about something you dont seem to fully understand or know about. FE is outlandish sure, but it does not give you the right to question my sanity and if how I come to certain assertions or not, if I am using any scientifically methods or not and so on.

You think that I cant do both, if you think that ignoring some of science is to be ignoring the scientific method? Trust me I am just like many of you here but I simply like FE and other crap like that too. Basically you try to point a finger at me and laugh, which is fine but it will eventually bee seen in my answers and when I do that you complain that I insult people when you are insulting me with your strange and odd questions about how I can like this FE stuff.

You try to reply to people that think they know what FE is and you immediately notices that they dont have looked into this topic for more than 1 minute, and yet you have to try and give as good answers as you possibly can

Can I just say, you really should run for office. This has been going on for about 5 pages now and I don’t think you’ve actually addressed any argument thrown at you.

 

[TexRex]

Omg, a flying car like proper one, not a airplane that is adapted for highway use too.

Well...

Definition of car
1 : a vehicle moving on wheels: such as
a archaic : carriage, chariot

car
(kɑːʳ )

Word forms: plural cars 1. countable noun [oft by NOUN]
A car is a motor vehicle with room for a small number of passengers.

Neither defines a car as not having wings. Care to show me an accepted source that does? Moreover, if a vehicle is designed specifically for highway use with provisions for flight, it is "not a airplane that is adapted for highway use too."

 

[polysmut]

I just tested to see if you would start to argue about flying cars because it came from me and you took it and swallowed it whole.

That makes you come across as a troll.

I think you're trying to make a big joke with this whole thing anyway. Too much of it doesn't add up for it to be serious.

 

[eiriksmil]

The earth is flat and the moon is cheese. Old news.

 

[homeforsummer]

No man, you dont even know what I am talking about yet you try to have an argument?

if you dont know what I am referring to then do not really try to even "debate".

Perhaps try talking clearly in the first place and it'll make things easier for everyone.

Nasa have a lot of flat earth pictures and on those ball earth pictures the continets have different sized landmasses when the pictures are scaled down to the same sizes.

...and again, by saying this you're not making a great deal of sense. Are the pictures flat maps, or are they images of the globe? Any chance of uploading an image to show what on Earth (pun intended) you're talking about?

I'll have another go anyway though - because the Earth is a spheroid, it's very difficult to accurately represent the size of different continents when you stretch it out over a non-spheroid shape like a flat map. The most commonly-used one is the Mercator, which exaggerates the size of everything closer to the poles - so Antarctica looks absolutely enormous, and Russia, Canada and Greenland are also hugely stretched.

There are several variants to try and account for this (looked at not-too-seriously by xkcd here) but none really work as well as something that represents the actual shape of our planet. Which funnily enough is a globe. On Google Maps you get both options - in normal map mode you get a distorted map shape when you zoom out, but with the satellite imagery you get a globe.

The rest of your post devolves into predictable drivel so I'm not inclined to address it, but to answer your last question, no - I don't believe in God. Just like flat-earthism, there are better explanations available for how we came to be and for how the universe works.

 

[PzR Slim]

Again you dont need to ignore any scientific methods at all, for a flat earth to work. Just ignore fantastical ones that from what have been up to date of no beneficial use to us.

Everything like electro-magnetism and such seems to still work in what they describe a fe world.

This is absolute comedy gold here. Just ignore the bits of science that don't fit the flat earth model

Clearly you have absolutely no idea of what constitutes the scientific method. If you did you would realise that your statement above is complete and utter guff. There is a heavy amount of delusion going on in your thinking. The scientific method does not produce none fantastical and fantastical science. It produces science.

I think what you are saying is that although you don't believe in the flat earth model, reading about it has made you question what science and institutions tell you. The hilarious thing that you haven't realised yet is that is exactly what the scientific method does, it questions everything and believes nothing except the data that it produces.

 

[Scaff]

If I want see how the earth really looks like I only need to say yes when the Military call for seasonal training and I get to fly in those hercules pigs to and from the training. Rigth now fe is something that I use as a tool to not believe in everything I read in sciences magazines. Instead of saying, -this sounds cool. Now I am saying, -meh what more crap are they gonna say next without actually showing any progress, like flying cars, which takes us the earths orbit or a weekend on a hotel on the moon by 2030 or everything is a scam.

Except its service ceiling (let alone normal cruising ceiling) isn't high enough, as has already been explained and ignmored by you.

What's odd is that's you go to example, but an experiment that takes ten seconds at sunset is too taxing!

Omg, a flying car like proper one, not a airplane that is adapted for highway use too. Have you seen those super small airplanes? They can be tiny winy man, just drive out on the road with one of those and you have a car if you go by your standard of how a flying car is supposed to be. I naturally mean a flying car that has no need of wings or propellers but more akin to Back To The Future type of cars. It was far fetched I know but you took it and started to go wild with it just because...

So you were deliberately misleading?

Again you dont need to ignore any scientific methods at all, for a flat earth to work. Just ignore fantastical ones that from what have been up to date of no beneficial use to us.

Everything like electro-magnetism and such seems to still work in what they describe a fe world.

Gravity.

It doesn't work on a flat earth.

The two explanations are that the flat earth is moving upwards, which would make flight impossible and breaks relativity in a big way; the other is that its from the disc spinning, which would mean zero gravity near the hub and a massive gravitation effect at the edge, which doesn't stack up with reality.

Then again I've mentioned this before and it went unanswered.

You are making it personal, as are many others here. Not helping that you dont know what you are getting yourself into and you try to argue about something you dont seem to fully understand or know about. FE is outlandish sure, but it does not give you the right to question my sanity and if how I come to certain assertions or not, if I am using any scientifically methods or not and so on.

Actually on the point in bold it does, and you're not.

You think that I cant do both, if you think that ignoring some of science is to be ignoring the scientific method? Trust me I am just like many of you here but I simply like FE and other crap like that too. Basically you try to point a finger at me and laugh, which is fine but it will eventually bee seen in my answers and when I do that you complain that I insult people when you are insulting me with your strange and odd questions about how I can like this FE stuff.

It is. Its called cherry picking.

You try to reply to people that think they know what FE is and you immediately notices that they dont have looked into this topic for more than 1 minute, and yet you have to try and give as good answers as you possibly can

The bit in bold, its a lie.

 

[SiriusR]

p.s.: Am I the only person who misread the title as "The Earth is Fiat"?

 

[UKMikey]

I'm going with the teapot shaped Earth model. Why limit oneself? NASA and the UN have a fleet of ships keeping people away from the spout.

 

[Touring Mars]

I've taken the liberty of altering the thread title since it was factually incorrect as it was ("The Earth is Flat").

 

[kikie]

This is what @Pillo-san is talking about. Strange that he won't post a link, so I'm going to do it, just for argument's sake. Not sure if this expression is correct.

 

[UKMikey]

I've taken the liberty of altering the thread title since it was factually incorrect as it was ("The Earth is Flat").

Needs more question marks and an exclamation point or two.

This is what @Pillo-san is talking about. Strange that he won't post a link, so I'm going to do it, just for argument's sake. Not sure if this expression is correct.

It is. In fact, not only is it grammatically correct, it's also literally correct since I'm convinced he's only in the thread for the sake of having an argument.

 

[Liquid]

Just going to repost this.

This Californian who wants to go up in a rocket to an elevation which is actually lower than the maximum elevation on land in that area is ridiculous. He can go to the top of a mountain at an elevation far higher than he intends to in his rocket.

To me, this only shows that many of these flat earth fantasists are just that; fantasists. Or fame-hungry narcissists who crave any kind of publicity.

 

[TenEightyOne]

you dont need to ignore any scientific methods at all, for a flat earth to work. Just ignore fantastical ones that from what have been up to date of no beneficial use to us.

This is where you keep shooting yourself in the face over and over again. There is nothing "fantastical" in any part of a scientific method - and you study it so you should know that.

If by "fantastical" you actually mean "bits that don't fit my reimagining of the evidence" then you already know that's not part of any scientific method.

 

[Famine]

This is what @Pillo-san is talking about. Strange that he won't post a link, so I'm going to do it, just for argument's sake.

If you've watched it, could we have a summary? I'm not sitting through 21 minutes of pants-on-head stupidity just to find out what the core of the argument is.

I suspect it'll turn out to be "we don't know what wide-angle photography is" from a cornucopia of remedials who don't believe dogs exist.